My Monk build has 2 fighter levels, and going for high SR. Not sure if 4 Fighter levels is worth it for the extra +6 damage from those feats, but it does make sense considering the number of attacks. I'll play around more with that.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Hey, just got a build idea, an actual, viable -tank-, capable at nothing -but- attracting enemies attention and tanking.
Monk 20/ SD5 / Knight Commander 5
The idea is to maximise dex and wisdom, take epic skill focus taunt and use entreatment WHILE being Under the effect of improved expertise.
If my calculations are correct, it would be easily possible to get around 74 AC while hasted ( in a party with caster ) , with epic dodge and also with a decent 70 ish entreatment will save most enemies can't resist.
My thought from playing other games is that the role of a tank is also to provide disruption and utility. I love the idea of relying on Entreatment and taunting, but it's only 5 uses a day. (I'm not sure how large the AoE is.) You need more than that. Alright, you have Improved Knockdown at a shitty AB, and some Stunning Fist variants. I guess you could DC request more KC and Monk abilities.
Alternately, I would consider a Terrifying Rage Barbarian/KC. All your AC won't matter if you can't reliably draw aggro and stop targets from going after your caster. You could drop a Tumble dump class there, perhaps Bard for even more small aura buffs.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Having played wizards on many servers i like to think i know how to build em. Of course what i think is trivial when the shit hits the fan nonetheless i shall talk about it... not like i have anything better to do anyway.
Wizards are both the most powerful class and the weakest class at the same time. Properly prepared and armed with the right spells a wizard is almost invincible... caught unprepared and without the right spells they are dead. Period. Close combat is a no no for wizards... at least for those who go fighter wizard or like to use polymorph alot. You want to be away from the main fighting so you can unleash mass destruction and summon armies of whatever to obliterate your foes, not standing within sword reach of the big dumb fighter so he can gut you. Wizards have piss poor hp and little to no armor protection so any kind of melee means certain death... and watch out for the damn archers as well, they are one of the major banes to a wizard's existence. Wizards can specialize in a school of magic and imho doing so is absolutely essential. Not only do you get extra spells but your magic from the school you choose will be twice as strong as a normal wizard's. Many wizards like blowing things up so choosing evocation is very common. For those who like summoning both conjuration and necromancy offer plenty and contain potent attack spells as well. Want to know the future?... take divination. Want to fuck with someone's mind take illusion or enchantment. And finally, if you want to transform into some powerful monster like a dragon transmutation is the school for you.
Spell focus, greater spell focus, and epic spell focus are must take feats. Each one makes your spells from your chosen school more dangerous and more difficult to defend against. Arcane defense is nice if you want a defensive boost against your chosen school. The three spell penetration feats will help you take down enemies who are highly magic resistant... which most high lv monsters are. Dont even bother trying to take down a balor with magic if you dont have those feats, you WILL die and the balor WILL laugh. Intelligence is king of the hill for wizards so pimp it out as high as you can and never stop. Dex will help your ranged attack spells connect more often. Constitution will give you a few extra hp and that is always good. You dont really need strength so leave it unboosted. Charisma has some benefits so taking 1 or 2 points of it can help. Wisdom helps boost your will save so placing a few points in it can help you out as well.
Now for the spells.
Depending on which school you took you will want to stock up on spells from that school. However you should take spells from others schools even if they dont complement your wizard type. One trick ponies never get far so dont become one. Certains spells are must haves however. Magic missile is by far the one of the best attack spells availiable and once you reach high lv you can throw down a whole truckload of them very rapidly. Beware enemies who have spell resistence or can cast shield however as both will defeat the spell and leave you vulnerable. Mage armor is a good defensive spell for a starting wizard so taking it is useful. Spells which make you invisible are always good to invest in but watch out for enemies who can counter it as it will not fool them for long. Spells which let you detect hidden foes as such are also good to have so you dont get assassinated by some stealthy rogue. Area effect spells like fireball let you dish out large amounts of damage to groups of enemies possibly wiping them out entirely after the first shot so taking such spells is always wise. Any kind of spells which grant you concealment or damage reduction are absolutely essential for when a monster survives long enough to close the distance and bite you in the ass. Haste is always a good investment no matter what kind of wizard you are. Instant death spells can take out weaker opponents but they dont tend to be very effective against the more powerful ones. Summoning spells are a must, there is absolutely no reason or excuse for a wizard to be adventuring without a summon guarding him/her. And dont even bother playing a wizard who does not have the dispel magic spells... those are required spells.
And that pretty much finishes the lecture... feel free to comment on it if you wish.
1) Specialization is usually a bad idea for a wizard. It gets you one spell slot each level, which is handy but nothing a little frugality and planning won't make up for. Literally every school has useful spells you will get genuine use of. Ability buffs in transmutation, summons in conjuration, improved invisibility in illusion, true seeing in divination and mass haste in Enchantment, just to mention a few. Divination is probably the one you could replace with potions and trinkets, but it's only for necromancy specialists - a very specific niche. Furthermore, a specialist's magic won't be "twice as strong" - it won't be any stronger at all. The only other effect (in addition to the spell slots) is +2 to identifying spells (via Spellcraft) of your school, at a -5 penalty to every other school. This would be a bad deal if the DC wasn't so low as to be irrelevant anyway.
2) There are precious few ranged touch attack spells in NWN, or ones you'd use in PvP or PvM anyhow. (Actually I can't think of any, off the top of my head.) Putting a few points in Dex to increase this hypothetical attack roll by 1 or 2 is pointless. Dex does give you AC and Reflex saves so it's not a bad investment, but I'd consider Constitution your second priority
3) Arcane Defense is a joke. You should never take it. There is a cap of +20 to any given save, and the feat counts towards it. Given that you'll probably have room for high saves on your equipment and that every 5 points in Spellcraft give you +1 saves vs spells, you will probably hit that cap. And note: those are modified Spellcraft points, so Gloves of Epic Spellcraft give you +6 to all saves vs spells too. Protection from Spells is a cheap turn/level buff of +8 saves vs spells. Even if this wasn't the case, you would be better off with Great Fort, Lightning Reflexes or Iron Will; getting +2 saves versus Necromancy may help you against Wail of the Banshee and Finger of Death, but getting +2 Fort will also apply to Implosion, Dev Crit and Weird.
4) Pure or near-pure wizards probably don't need the Spell Penetration line of feats. They are handy, especially if you're going to PvP a lot of monks and drow, but you can do without them.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
I'm fairly certain that you'll have to drop Weapon Master if you want Barbarian in there.
The Terrifying Epic Dodger is a pretty good build, 16 Barbarian 13 Rogue 1 Ranger (Ranger level taken in epic for epic weapon focus)
I am going to try out this build, but going human would get a more late epic dodge. Still, I am wondering what feats I should go for. I'll try anyway, but please give feedback on my build.
Human Str 14 Dex 18 (25) Con 12 Wis 8 Int 10 Cha 8
Skills : Intimidate, Tumble, (I don't know about other skills yet)
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
Pre-Epic Split is 12 Barbarian 8 Rogue, the reason you go Rogue 8 is because it nets the same BAB as 15 Barb 5 Rogue, but gives you more Sneak die before epic so you aren't hitting like a wet fish. You also want KD and IKD down there, and you can probably drop the idea of toughness for something like Great Fort, I wouldn't bother with Power Attack so much. I really like the idea of the rapier though, to me it says;
"Hi I'm a polite cultured urbane modern gentleman, who'll cut you fucking ribbons if you piss me off, I like cucumber sandwiches with the crusts cut off, especially when I drown them in the sauce that is your internal colors"
"Hi I'm a polite cultured urbane modern gentleman, who'll cut you fucking ribbons if you piss me off, I like cucumber sandwiches with the crusts cut off, especially when I drown them in the sauce that is your internal colors"
I think I fell in love.
I was thinking just that when I read the build, but then I thought "Hmm, Ice, if you go 'RP before build' in this post they will have your head! You don't want to lose your head, do you?" and so I nodded for myself, because I know I'm always right, and I let it slip.
Pre-Epic Split is 12 Barbarian 8 Rogue, the reason you go Rogue 8 is because it nets the same BAB as 15 Barb 5 Rogue, but gives you more Sneak die before epic so you aren't hitting like a wet fish. You also want KD and IKD down there, and you can probably drop the idea of toughness for something like Great Fort, I wouldn't bother with Power Attack so much. I really like the idea of the rapier though, to me it says;
"Hi I'm a polite cultured urbane modern gentleman, who'll cut you fucking ribbons if you piss me off, I like cucumber sandwiches with the crusts cut off, especially when I drown them in the sauce that is your internal colors"
Thank you very much for your help, and that is kind of what I intend my character to be, to a certain extent. More like ''Oh, I guess i'll just go away...'' *Blocked path* ''Well aren't you lucky...'' *starts slaughtering* In any case, is taking Rogue as first level class still viable? And should I lower one point of DEX to get my INT to 13? I could still get epic dodge this way. Also, I would be taking Knockdown as my human feat, and move Improved Critical to level 12, taking improved knockdown at level 9. Thank you!
Edit : Nevermind, lowered my strength to 12 and raised my Int to 14.
Ok... this is my concept for my experimental character Vrass. I plan to create as close as possible a warlock build. NWN1 does not have that class but i think with the right multiclass and feat/spell choices something similiar to it can be made. Im not going to give detailed stats but i plan to combine a fighter and a wizard to effect the build. Warlocks are like clerics in a way... they can fight and they can use magic. Vrass will do much the same. Even if it does not work... it will be interesting to see how it goes. Wish me luck.
_________________ Osmodius Blackstar - Human Necromancer
You probably ought to make a special request if you want to play a genuine Warlock. It's a stupid and unwarranted strictening of our character creation policies, but it seems to be the safest course of action.
If you just want something in that style, that's much easier. I would go Sorcerer to represent Warlocks' spontaneous incantations and Eldritch Blast, but there are much better-suited Wizard builds for a Spellsword. You'll find them a few pages back, no doubt.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
True enough but i still wish to do the experiment. A fighter mage will never be a true warlock but it will at least come as close as possible within the current game. Granted warlocks have some rogue in them but if i try multiclassing three classes i will probably be too weak at the end. So far though ive been dominating with it though. I went all the way to lv 5 in 1 hour without dying once. The skeleton familiar really kicks some ass.
_________________ Osmodius Blackstar - Human Necromancer
Oh, you made the character and then ask for advice? You really need to know your epic feats before you can decide on the proper ability point distribution. What are you ending with? Around 20 Int, 20 Str? What's the class spread pre-epic, and the final build?
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
You are probably right but i tend to be rather hasty with new ideas. Ok... i will give some more details of my experimental build but still hopefully not ruin future rp.
I combined a fighter and a wizard. I kept my cleric like attack setup for flavor as warlocks tend to use maces, clubs, and sceptors. So i have high agility, weapon finness, and i plan to get weapon mastery in a few lvs. I took the build out for a test drive last night and was very suprised with how the test went. I totally obliterated everything in my way, sewers, slimes, goblins, everything. I could fight good and was still able to get off spells even though i did not yet have still spell which i plan to take asap.
I am currently a lv 2 fighter and a lv 3 wizard. Next lv i will take still spell and from then on my armor is no longer a problem. I wont have as many spells to cast as other mages but the ability to use armor helps mitigate that. I will take toughness for extra hp and weapon mastery to boost my bab. After that i will take whatever feats give me more ability to fight and use magic.
I wont say anymore that... i do not want to reveal all like i did last time.
_________________ Osmodius Blackstar - Human Necromancer
Joined: 25 May 2011 Location: Canada, Qc (EST, GMT -5)
You will find it more enjoyable if you thoroughly plan your build completely in advance; guessing what is good on the fly will end up in bad choices. You have to know what you want your character to be, and what you want him to do. It's rather easy and simple to do, and you can plan enough feat, and avoid ending up with lack of requriements for that or this feat. NWN Wiki is a great help in that.
And still spell is not a waste; don't be affraid to had RP flavour to your build, not everybody is a powerbuilder.
_________________ login:mirvala Em'rae d'Ussen d'Vhid No mercy for the kivvil akaAgentOfLyumis
There are two 0% ASF Large Shields easily available for a very low price, Medium armour with 0% ASF is about too but you can request Heavy armour with 0% ASF (and if you just request the armour and craft the rest, it's cheaper DC-wise!!)
_________________
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
I shall look for these indeed and i thank you for the information. But for now im still relatively weak. My test drive gives me some hope as i did much better then my cleric did. With Ex i died enumerable times and took many tries to defeat the goblin dungeon. I had absolutely no trouble this time and cleared out the entire dungeon without dying once. Granted my undead familiar did a lot of the work but i still kicked alot of ass myself. So far ive been having a blast and that is the point of playing... to have enjoyment.
_________________ Osmodius Blackstar - Human Necromancer
Yes,but you also have to bear in mind that your familiar is -going- to limit your ability to party up, which I can tell you you -will- need. You have to take the server's balance into account, and after about level four it's not made to solo, it's made to party up, and undead are pretty universally despised, and evil being hated and kicked out of places was something you didn't like.
If you want a Warlock (Which is, I gather, some kind of spellblade, someone who uses magic and a weapon), your absolute best bet is the 23/6/1 Mage/Fightery/tumbledump deal. It works, it's proven to work, and it will save you a -ton- of time. If you talk to Very_Svensk, Nitinious or Mr. Hackums, they all have extremely viable spellblade builds and tend to be willing to help.
_________________
Bobo_Underhill wrote:
Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw!
Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
I dont have to use the undead... and i can switch him to something else. I wonder though, what other familiars are good as tanks? Ive been told the panther is good... and maybe the spider?
_________________ Osmodius Blackstar - Human Necromancer
Don't be afraid to use the undead. We need more undead friendly people on here, and I have had no problems finding a party with my necromancers, you just have to ask beforehand if anyone has a problem with undead, there are plenty of people who don't, especially if you hang around the right places. Also when you are in a party with fighter types you will have less need for a summon anyway. (it is the strongest familiar in melee as far as my limited testing has shown, and you can heal it and damage your enemies at the same time with NEB)
Don't be afraid to use the undead. We need more undead friendly people on here, and I have had no problems finding a party with my necromancers, you just have to ask beforehand if anyone has a problem with undead, there are plenty of people who don't, especially if you hang around the right places. Also when you are in a party with fighter types you will have less need for a summon anyway. (it is the strongest familiar in melee as far as my limited testing has shown, and you can heal it and damage your enemies at the same time with NEB)
Don't be afraid to use the undead. We need more undead friendly people on here, and I have had no problems finding a party with my necromancers, you just have to ask beforehand if anyone has a problem with undead, there are plenty of people who don't, especially if you hang around the right places. Also when you are in a party with fighter types you will have less need for a summon anyway. (it is the strongest familiar in melee as far as my limited testing has shown, and you can heal it and damage your enemies at the same time with NEB)
Ask before as in OOC'ly?
I'd assume so, it's common curtsey to ask things like that using the Party Ball, I for one always ask if someone's all right with teaming up with my Gnoll or Green Dragon Disciple, it saves the unneeded hassle of forcing a negative planned interaction.
_________________
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Oh it's usually alright to do it ICly. Most sensitive PCs will just go "rawr no undead!" and once you unsummon they're fine having you around, so you needn't necessarily expect a full-blown party conflict instead of an exp grinding/passive RP session. What's fun is playing a necromancer, do your thing without summoning undead, and then if the party goes near wipe and you need to bring in heavy support, summon undead to save their arses.
Joined: 25 May 2011 Location: Canada, Qc (EST, GMT -5)
serbiris wrote:
What's fun is playing a necromancer, do your thing without summoning undead, and then if the party goes near wipe and you need to bring in heavy support, summon undead to save their arses.
And then banish them before raising the goodies.
That!
It's so much more fun to do.
_________________ login:mirvala Em'rae d'Ussen d'Vhid No mercy for the kivvil akaAgentOfLyumis
I do it both ways, myself. If I find someone via party ball I ask, because I know we are both looking to hunt and therefore meeting up just to find out we are not compatible is a waste of time. That's usually with racial type stuff, though.
I do it IC normally with like undead summons. My one wizard, for example, usually asks a vague question like 'How do you feel about undead?' If they answer negatively and ask why, he says something about hunting undead; if positive well them he's happy. It's a nice trick to use.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
I like how my familiar continues to grow more powerful as i lv. Normally it would only recieve hp and bab increases but ive noticed its ac, damage reduction, and weapon enhancement going up too.
_________________ Osmodius Blackstar - Human Necromancer
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Is there any real benefit for a wizard to take Blind Fight? It's pretty much only useful if you are a melee or ranged attacker right?
edit:
Drow wizard/bard - Which is better
1) Starting with 18+2 INT, ending 28 INT including a Great INT feat, and with +12 gear having a bonus level 3 and 6 slot (compared to havint 26+12 INT)
OR
2) Starting with 17+2 INT, ending 26 INT, and having an epic feat to spare (because of not taking Great INT)
I can't really tell if the +1 DC and 3/6 slots are really worth it.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Last edited by Naivatkal on Wed, Dec 11 2013, 23:17 PM, edited 1 time in total.
The only reason I questioned it is because it's a drow and they are jipped out of one or two feats, so feat-space is precious. Probably doesn't help it has 1 ESF, Epic Spell Pen (cause, drow ), EMD, EMA, and GR. So feats get used up quickly, heh.
Not sure about Brew Potion, but it's useful. Could swap for Toughness for more survivability. If I swapped the 20 starting INT for 19 starting, I could have a free epic feat and also bump STR to 11. Buuut the 8 STR really doesn't bother me that much on a wiz build (even though 8 STR is painful)
edit: And confirm on the Blind Fight plox bby ilu
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Why is maximize generally preferred here over empower, empower seems more useful with being 1 lvl lower to cast and having the potential to give more damage, though on a less consistent basis? I have always taken empower over maximize, and have been told it is better on other servers, but everyone here seems to prefer maximize.
Is it something to do with the lvl 30 cap (the primary difference between Amia and other servers I've played) or is it personal preference, or is there a mathematical reason it is superior?
Consistent results makes it a lot easier to gear up your character, plus 5th level spells are generally considered worse than say, extended hastes at 4th level.
A lot of people tout Empowered, but honestly I never take it on my builds (maybe once or twice), because the few spells it is useful on don't seem worth it.
Maximized is good, for sure, because of a large number of spells but most of all +5 ability boosts guaranteed all the time. That frees up gear slots and helps with party members as well.
Most of the time it's 'preferred' to take both.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Why is maximize generally preferred here over empower, empower seems more useful with being 1 lvl lower to cast and having the potential to give more damage, though on a less consistent basis? I have always taken empower over maximize, and have been told it is better on other servers, but everyone here seems to prefer maximize.
Is it something to do with the lvl 30 cap (the primary difference between Amia and other servers I've played) or is it personal preference, or is there a mathematical reason it is superior?
maximize does more damage on average than empower 1d4 = 2.5 x 1.5 = 3.75 (empower) vs 4 (maximize) 1d6 = 3.5 x 1.5 = 5.25 vs 6 1d8 = 4.5 x 1.5 = 6.75 vs 8 1d10 = 5.5 x 1.5 = 8.25 vs 10 1d12 = 6.5 x 1.5 = 9.75 vs 12 though, depending on where the engine rounds values, 1d4 may do more with empower
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
Empower is only really beneficial when the spell involved has a non-variable number in it's equation and the spell was made for the core game as the non-variable aspect doesn't play a part in expansion spells.
Hilariously enough it means that the reason that most folk take "Maximise" with regards to ability buffing are actually wrong since the buff average is higher (5.25) than what you gain from maximize. Empowered ability buffs give you a better than 60 percent chance to roll equal to or higher than maximize and if you look at most characters requiring two or three ability scores buffed usually you will get more distance out of empower. What this would require though is having multiple gear sets to adjust to the buffing situation.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
Joined: 25 May 2011 Location: Canada, Qc (EST, GMT -5)
It is more about the planification than the high numbers. With a +5 at all times, I know I will only have to carry +7 from gear to hit my +12 cap without ever needing to worry about a low roll.
_________________ login:mirvala Em'rae d'Ussen d'Vhid No mercy for the kivvil akaAgentOfLyumis
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
Absolutely true, but if I know that there is a 60 percent chance that the two buffs that I need to increase my Str and Con scores are going to equal maximize and that those two buffs have a greater than 40 percent chance of rolling higher than maximise, I'd consider rolling with a variable gear set, which is achievable through jewelry sets, in those two statistics. Even further to that point Maximize is only relevant in PvM not PvP. If you are relying on castable buffs of your combat statistics in PvP you are doing it wrong. You drink potions for PvP you don't cast spells.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
FAQ
Search
Login
), EMD, EMA, and GR. So feats get used up quickly, heh.
