Fair enough. The rather high criteria of doing something about it (especially as regards class) is an issue I'll acknowledge. Druids and clerics do have means of divination too, what little that counts for. Or you could raid Cordor silos for grain out of desparation. That would be an entirely unexpected and awesome twist.

I'm not sure why these things must have a great impact on daily RP, though. The changes are not even represented in the module (I think). Surely people can put aside their worries for a while and pursue another type of interaction. If changing the topic seems impossible, maybe it's a sign that the majority present would in fact prefer to discuss the events and feel them relevant/exciting?

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There are plenty of known arcanists you could ask to help Bendir out IC. If I would be in your shoes, I would be asking certain few to look into it. This way you include others, outside of your normal rp surroundings, and perhaps gain a new IC relations.

Not everyone need to be self-sufficient, in Winya we have a lot of caster population, but try to find a dev-critter among us, not so easy anymore. But there are WK's you can ask, and I do..

Actually I do think your druids and clerics could work wonders on their own even. In some cases they might be even more potent than your arcane caster, and plot which has something to do with faminity, I would think Druids are on their turf here. Don't give up.

Edit: Clerics have very good divination spells, something I would like to have on my arcane caster! But can't have it all, just take a look at them.

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

I've already spoken with Nihilius on how I feel about the whole supposed conspiracy to attack Bendir Dale by the staff. but I'll repeat it here. I think it's a load of nonsense. To the outsider, Bendir Dale is just a town of happy go lucky yokels in a poorly defended frontier. It's what makes them an obvious target for these sorts of plots. What I was hoping to do there was give the outsider a bit more insight into our thought processes.

At the same time, if not Bendir Dale, where else are we supposed to have a lighthearted social environment? There's a substantial player base that's interested in the lighter side of RP, and just because some might want big sweeping plots, do we have to trample on the wishes of those who just want some lighter fun?

IronAngel's comments kind of highlights a lot of what we get frustrated about. There's this belief going around that Bendir Dale knows nothing about what's going on around the island. That all we do is dance giggling while ignoring everyone and everything else on the island. The thing is, Bendir Dale is a hub. Pretty much everyone has to pass through it to get anywhere else on the island. So all sorts stop by, and many of them stop and talk. As such, we hear about pretty much everything that goes on around the island. And we are often stuck dealing with a lot of the drama that sorrounds it, often times leading to a hefty body count. I don't know when this period of Bendir Dale existing in a bubble was, but it certainly wasn't when I was around. Slavers, Cultists, Trolls, Blood Mages, we've been hit by all sorts of plots and drama both DM and PC backed. We do know what's happening, but we've always perservered. However, I am finding that the most recent plots has just left me feeling a little too helpless and at a loss.

And more specifically, how is a settlement that follows a Lawful Good goddess supposed to go about conducting Blood Magic? And how do I even go about getting these highly proscribed tomes anyways? Do I just send a letter to the Church of Cyric and have them drop them in the mail? Come on man. Actually go to Bendir Dale before you make these kind of frankly offensive comments. I know I've been doing everything in my power to find a solution to the problem. I've spoken to representatives of the Oakmist Grove, THe Hidden Glade, various epic wizards, the Church of Lathander and even Tarkuul about finding solutions to this problems. Every one of those tangents has so far proved fruitless to this seemingly invincible curse placed on the land.

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NWN Login: Havicus

Active Characters:
Souris, Former Bendir Dale Councillor, now alleged assassin and general hobo
Haren Mariq, Witch of the Southwestern Wind, and High Poultrymancer
Elaneth Merwick, Elfling Arcane Archer

Bendir Dale is literally the place to get an update on current affairs, even more so than Cordor's paperboy!

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Perhaps you simply have been unlucky finding answers, but I don't think Iron meant you should turn to blood magic, more like learn of it and find out what can undo the spell. Or perhaps have potent team of diviners look into it, if it is any help. Not sure, as I am not involved in Bendir Dale, ut trying to suggest new things from my arcane perspective. I've been working on diviner char and been lucky to attend divining rituals twice now, they turned out fruitful, one way or another and Silkis supervision on other one was great, even though we failed, it contributed in so many levels to my character at least.

Usually when I ran into a unsolvable knot in a plot, I consulted several characters about the islands and even if then I could not work forward, I simply told the DM that I am simply out of ideas. And more often than not, they gave a hint what might take it forward, whether I actually realized it or not.

What comes to rp, I think Bendir Dale rp has always been how I view halflings. Nothing there to criticize, but due to it, and my chars race, she often views them more like children actually, in all positive things in truth. It is something of value in Bendir Dale, something other settlements can't really copy either.

Edit: And due to your relations and rp, your more than likely to gain help from everywhere you ask. Just don't give up, keep going.

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

I know the blood magic comment wasn't serious, but I was offended by the implication that we haven't been trying to solve the problem. Since pretty much all my time in game as Souris has been spent either trying to acquire emergency provisions, watching casters conduct experiments on the withering, or talking to various casters about the withering.

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NWN Login: Havicus

Active Characters:
Souris, Former Bendir Dale Councillor, now alleged assassin and general hobo
Haren Mariq, Witch of the Southwestern Wind, and High Poultrymancer
Elaneth Merwick, Elfling Arcane Archer

I can understand your frustration on this. Nonetheless, once you do find solution, the feeling is great.

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

It was just a maverick suggestion. What could be cooler than an allegedly Lawful Good settlement (founded and patronized by criminals as it was) raiding Cordor's supplies and turning to blood magic, only to inadvertantly hasten the island's doom? I'll leave it to you to justify that IC.

Players probably shouldn't expect to solve problems in a week or two, though. Reyes' story has been going on for 7 years. It's pretty clear that problems like the Dale's are related to a bigger picture, and it may be solved indirectly. I do sympathize and agree that all your efforts should get some kind of an elaborate response. Your first post gave the impression that whether you know stuff or not, you don't really want to participate - fair enough, but that shouldn't make the problems go away.

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It's the divide between my OOC and IC wishes. OOC I would prefer a lighter environment around Bendir Dale. ICly, Souris would do absolutely anything to save her kinsfolk.

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NWN Login: Havicus

Active Characters:
Souris, Former Bendir Dale Councillor, now alleged assassin and general hobo
Haren Mariq, Witch of the Southwestern Wind, and High Poultrymancer
Elaneth Merwick, Elfling Arcane Archer

The way I feel, the thing is that you can involve factions as you like, but if you make them a victim at least don't leave them helpless. Maybe DM's are at full right to do so, but you may be ruining people's fun, and less fun means less players. It's frustrating to walk around with your character in her daily rp knowing there's nothing you can do to repair the damage done to your faction.

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I am not weird, I am limited edition

I don't know if I've ever seen a faction be reduced to utter helplessness. Maybe it's just the way I think but I can always look at the situation and say "well it might be worth attempting ___". The greater problem is morale - feeling helpless, feeling that nothing they do can make a difference, and giving up because of the associated bad feels. There are always possibilities, but I acknowledge that morale is finite and just as important as potential.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

With everything that has been happening in Bendir lately, Merin has been putting some serious thought into moving to Kohlingen. She likes to feel safe, as hilarious as that might be to some looking at Bendir, and the loss of all the pretty plant life has put her into a bit of a depression. Not because bad things are happening, bad things happen all the time, but because she can do literally nothing about it. She has no magical knowledge, no way to chase up any leads, she is just barely managing to feed herself each day.

I guess what I am saying is, there is a definite lack of hope currently. Something Bendir used to have in spades. If Tarkuul or the Grove have no idea how to fix things, the simple folk in Bendir certainly won't be able to sort it out. A small glimmer of hope would do all manner of good, I think. At least from my POV.

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Merin Merbrook: Scribe of Bendir Dale
Monte Fergish: Gnomish Anthropologist, Explorer, and Linguist.
Eralos Feliwin: Scholar and Practitioner of the Arcane
La Gato Negra: Cat Burglar Extraordinaire
Total altaholic.

In all honesty I am 50/50 on this all. Many know me for my character Izariel, who in all truth was fully designed in one way. The character himself has a very generic and basic background that grew and grew over time. Those that have role played with me know a fair bit about him now. But with that in mind he was designed with one purpose, to be a paladin. People may think its for stats or what not but it isn't I joined with people and friends pulling me in saying this server needed more paladin players that actually played the class in a classic way. So I took what I thought in my opinion was how the class should be and made it a character. Very much based off of Forgotten Realms books and games.

His sole design and his greatest flaws come hand in hand with it. He is in all essence a character who was fully designed to "lead". This is his greatest strength and his greatest weakness. He can't resist it because of who he is. The server itself has many people that clash with this. Not everyone is meant to lead and not everyone's is meant to follow. So often clashes happen of powers and then it comes down to who can one up the other. Sadly not many can take this IC and much OOCly. Power struggles on this server are crazy. I find that it goes way way to much into OOC then IC. On everyone's end, which in some ways can't be avoided.

DM's do there best to run plots and stories and take heat from that no matter what, one way or another. Sadly that is the negative to being a DM. The only difference between being a DM in PnP (Pen and Paper) compared to online in NwN is the fact that as the one controlling very much how the game goes in PnP you don't have to check your inbox and find 10 complaints a day about various things. Which has a huge effect on how people play.

As I said I am 50/50 on a lot of stuff. I am sure to some I am considered perhaps a person that takes over. Which in all honesty is not intentional, that has a lot to do with my character. But on the other hand being a person who tried so hard to build things up and include as many people as I could in every way possible took a crap ton of work. It was not easy to do and it brought so much heat with it was not even funny. The game began to become not so much a game but a job and effected my real life, which in truth was not the greatest to deal with. Real life always comes first whether you like it or not people, that is reality and a sad fact. Why? because if you don't work to pay the bills you loose the internet and what happens to your character then? If you don't eat and drink you get sick. All these things effect where you wish to go and how you get there.

I spent four months constantly getting on almost every day to role play the position my character had. My inbox filled up four times (Didn't even know it could) from pm's from people both IC and OOCly. We worked tirelessly with the DM's to bring fourth issues and screenshots, logs and various things to back the role play and deal with the problems OOCly. Yet when all was said and done the amount of resistance me and a select few took while in our positions just wore us out. You can build stuff up, will it work. I can't say, I consider what I did a huge failure on my part. Rose to the top to fall back to the bottom, but I did not let this defeat me. Do I think people can compete with certain "All Star" players. In truth, no. I was there I did everything I could to get people in positions and work things out making everyone happy, my character did every single thing he could to the Tee. He literally is almost the definition of what a Helmite should be, a reflection of his god. But it was in this that he failed also.

He was hit from behind by the very people he trusted most, which went to shed much light on the "Holy City" and politics. For good or bad I cannot say. Rumors IC can have huge devastating effects on characters, which is absolutely fine if it remains IC. Do I feel what I am saying is going to get critizised, perhaps. But it is fact, truth and backed up with so many screen shots and logs that I can speak it and not feel bad. Point being the game is meant to be fun, if it is able to satisfy some part of you then everyone is doing a good job and it is working. But if you ask whether I believe various things I will answer honestly.

I personally feel the events of late you can't really avoid. They are a bit brutal, unforgiving and have massive end of world consiquenses. Sadly this effected me on a mental level. Believe it or not what Moogle was speaking of is true. The one whom she was mentioning is in fact my wife and I. Are we handling the issue irl alright, well as best we can. I had to push away from the larger scale events because it was hitting me on a personal level. Not that I fault what is going on, just when I play Iz a character who protects children to the extreme tends to keep finding dead child after dead child, seeing his loved ones carrying corpse's in there hands and well the blood and everything. Yup it finally hit me, I tend to keep this stuff to myself as in truth we all play the game. If asked why I don't just leave it is because I don't quit. Never have. Plus my wife and I use this game as a past time to escape reality to use our imaginations.

That being said smaller events have larger impacts on people. Small things that BoB, Amarice and a few others do every now and then are what drew me into staying. It showed that people care about new players and that you can work your way up the ladder. It is possible, not impossible at all. I did it with Izariel, it was no small feat and it truly impacted the character to create what he is now. The politics drove him away from the cities and now he works the greatest good in the smallest ways. It gave him even more character then the position he once held ever did, and truly I like it because I missed involving new players and characters. That was my favorite things about being a leader was having that ability to get people involved.

But that some times has massive consiquenses. That very show of kindness allowed Izariel to become overly vulnerable which in all honesty there is no way to hold the position he did without dealing with more trouble then it is worth. Sadly I felt personally it went to OOC for my liking. So I stepped down realizing this would never change. That was the negative of it all, I personally felt no matter what I did, how I did it the same people would come at me every single time. Both IC and OOCly. That is in all honesty why competing with so called "All Stars" happens so rarely, because it does not feel worth it at the end of the day. But that is not to say it is every "All Star" I hold great respect for many of them, they do get others involved and they do try hard. They worked to where they got and did so with a lot of effort.

Which is greatly respected, as are the character. But do not mistake the hard work you did do, for the hard work that needs to be done now. I would only ask that you do not ignore people and push them aside because they don't understand. In truth some of us understand you all way better then you know. You all are good people, you just some times let things get to you to much. Something not meant to be personal is taken like so and the victims are never the ones targeted but the people they surround themselves with. Players become afraid to do anything if those whom did everything right end up on a chopping block with there heads decapitated. So no matter what favoritism will always be there. People as humans naturally prefer those who treat them nice over those who are dicks.

Your not going to toss a dog a bone if every time he rips your arm off because you touched it. But there is always counters, I don't know where I stand among people. I simply try to make it fun. If that can be done by everyone else keeping in mind this is a game and we are here to have fun, then things will improve. If not you will continue to have huge long rant threads with different names to justify them. That is just my opinion. Work with people and you get places, work hard and you will get places. Speak you mind when you need to but back it up with facts (Screenshots, logs and witness's help.) Otherwise enjoy the game together, this life is short things bad happen all the time. The world we live in is harsh and unforgiving but to get through it as human beings we lean on friends, family and those close to help us through it. This game is no different. Remember yourself, remember your character and have fun. That's my long post. Have fun.

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Izariel Skyfall - Paladin of Helm / The White Wolf

Aruilther - The Bard

I fully understand that as a shifter who does not have the use of magical spells to do all the fun stuff, or being a wizard with its truck load of Int for ton of skills like lore...etc. to help progress the plot along I have slowly over the years shifted my focus to a mostly combat aspect.

Being combat focused has its ups and downs as not all events have a combat aspect but lets face it most of them do, and the monsters rip a lot of people to shreds so I take solace in the fact if someone was not focused on killing the monsters everyone else would be to dead to talk wizardly stuff.
I will admit its getting harder and harder because our limits of power is based off OOC balance and we can only push the limits so far because requests are based off item + person requesting them, yet the foes we fight have limitless power with items we can never get like +8 stuff as well it seems with near unending numbers in some cases.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

I'll take a step back when it comes to the all-stars. Truth is that with most of them it is a positive consequence of hard work, and many of them deserve to be all-stars. I never imagined it really was this hard as I hear you describe it now and thought it was more about knowing the right people. And to step up and defend them, all-stars shouldn't be stopped from taking part in events just because they are an all-star, if we're supposed to be inclusive then it means including everyone and we can't blame people for trying to be part of the fun. My problem is more about that it's hard for the "mundane" character to have an impact on events except if they have a very high position in a faction. Therefore it seems (with emphasizing seems) that most of the all-star characters are casters.

The topic were more about the impact events may have on peoples rp and enjoyment, not an attempt to complain about a tendency of the same people running the show.

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I am not weird, I am limited edition

To be honest throughout my time playing here I've felt the DM plots are too cataclysmic, too. But I said that in the last thread about this, so I'll not go further into repeating myself. The last time this came up so many people hated on "All-Stars" that it was just painful. And when your fellow players make you feel like all the work you've done means nothing and they don't want you around... Well, there's a reason Zelly is now dead.

Edit: I should clarify. It wasn't the only reason, but it did make it a lot easier to decide to go through with it.

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Yeah, could we save all the comments about All-Star players for a different discussion? Personally I don't really give a damn about them either way. Players are players. Some are better at gaining power than others. And power is there for those who can take it. It is the way of things.

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NWN Login: Havicus

Active Characters:
Souris, Former Bendir Dale Councillor, now alleged assassin and general hobo
Haren Mariq, Witch of the Southwestern Wind, and High Poultrymancer
Elaneth Merwick, Elfling Arcane Archer

Oh my God people, walls of text >_> I've officially checked out of this thread for the most part, haha!

However:

I have to agree, having everything all end-of-the-world is irksome and just makes me not want to get involved. That's why I'm not on Lucious much anymore, because I haven't been enmeshed into the Reyes polt and everything always happens when I'm not able to get online (or am busy with other IC stuff) and the whole overture of how powerful he is makes me just go 'meh, everything will work out because if Reyes wins int he end, Amia as a server will need to be redone'. I mean if Reyes is as powerful as he's made to sound, he could easily wipe out all opposition.


I have seen several times 'all-stars' do nothing and actively try to push work onto other players to stay out of a plot. Know what happened?

No one did a God-damned thing and the 'all-stars' had to step back in.

So all of you people that bitch about 'all-stars', think about that. I seriously hate that term (when people use it derisively; Yoss meant it innocently when he made it) and I'm not even one of them!


<3

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

While many events are too cataclysmic, the Cordor plot deservingly is so. It is not just about some demon prince from a book who decided to cause trouble. This is a tale that was created by numerous dms and players and has been the main story of the server for years. It has slowly build to this point, and after all this sweating and heaving, it is reaching the climax. It deserves to go out with a great bang.

The Reyes thing have become a good example to forward my opinions, and I agree with what stands above. And the seriousness of that event affects Eara and my rp as her immensely.

And back to the all-stars topic, I think Naivatkal as a good point. I remember myself not having performed the tasks given to me at some occasions, once because I didn't know how to approach the situation and the other time because I forgot. I think a lot of people want weight, but don't want to carry the weight. Though on the other hand I've seen some people seem to work hard to achieve things, without really having much of an impact.

Also who get's an impact or not seems to be a bit of luck, depending what faction they are a part of, and how active the DM's and leaders are in those factions.

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I am not weird, I am limited edition

+1.

I appreciate that the current stage of the plot has its problems, and not everyone can enjoy it equally. But it really is just one stage of the plot. There's a time for everything, and now is the time for cataclysm. And despite the scale of events, there have been a lot of intertwining threads that allow for participation on a more local level. But I think it's a good point that more attention and consideration can be given to this level in the future.

I don't really know about other events. I assumed this topic was related to the Big Story. Many of us have patiently endured the giggles and tea parties (pardon the crude caricature) for years, it's only fair that others exert some patience when it's time for the story to reach a climax. Everyone has their moments.

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Oh, I should mention (because I failed to earlier) that I do love the plot/story in the Reyes Arc. I don't want people to think I'm dennouncing their DMing or playering and otherwise RPing

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Here's a thing that's been on my mind a few times, regarding DM's and their player accounts.

Have the DM's be the dm's for the area's that their player accounts mainly represent. Key word there.....'mainly'. We all know who I'm talking about, I know i could play a word association game with it too...


Ulrik.....

Avadon.....

Andrew.....

Phrae/Shyilia.... *could do two places here* OOOOORRRR!!!!

'Tana...*and i know MANY people know who this character is*

Eli ... *And this leads to my next point, because this person could do two, maybe three areas*

DM's should /not/ have characters in positions of power in opposing cities/factions. I know I'm overlooking or missing a grey area with my last example, but you get the idea. Hell, I'd like to see all players not be allowed to have multi faction toons, and by this I mean multiple toons in multiple factions, though I can understand the hindrance this would put on player interaction and such. Further limiting RP is ultimately bad, but my point stands. A player having a character in multiple factions, especially in opposing factions just leaves too much potential for metagaming, even if it's accidental. I know I've confused what one character knows with another character. We've all done it.

When a DM overseeing an area logs into their player acct to run around another area just divides their attention, it's another bad case of alt-itis, imo. Playing their main toon in the area they're overseeing gives them more focus to help other people drive that area to better levels of RP and story.

It just seems a conflict of interest to me is all. The various area's on the server would be better served with a dedicated DM. Sure, said DM should be allowed to have some 'time off' and go play, but just like the multi faction idea, I think their off time shouldn't involve a conflict of interest when it comes to any kind of plot lines.

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I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

With all I have read from this thread, only one sentence comes to mind:

Whatever is done, there will be people to complain about it.


If your fun is DEPENDANT on DM events, you are doing something wrong. You are the only person responsible for your enjoyment, Plots and Events are just fluff around this. Yes, bad things happen. All IC. If you take it personally, and start feeling down IRL because of things that happen in a fictive world, it might me the time to take a break from it. Take a step back, and realise that, after all, this is only a game, and that nothing is perfect.

It is really hard to please everybody, and sometimes it might seem like you are wasting your time putting so much efforts into something. Try enjoying yourself alone, and then take part in the world. Then, whatever will happen, you will find a way to have fun, independently of everything going on.

And I'm not saying this to be cute and stuff. It does work. Been there, done that.

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login:mirvala
Em'rae d'Ussen d'Vhid
No mercy for the kivvil
aka AgentOfLyumis

From the time that my faction was ruined, as I found out later, by a DM playing their Harper while in my faction, I totally, 140%, agree with this.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

DMs should govern NPCs in the area their PCs are personally invested in, in order to avoid a conflict of interests? Seems legit.

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I disagree with the above statement about DM PC's for the following reasons.

I think many if not most of these characters were made while the DM's werent a DM yet.

I personally also find it harsh to expect DM's have to sacrifice their characters (by not playing them), which they put a lot into to get them that far, along with their time to make us players enjoy the server.

So.... no. Lets not demand that. Especially as opposing can mean about every other faction at times.

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Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

mirvala, the problem here is that some stops having fun because of the events, whether they want to be a part or not. And sorry if it feels like this, I don't want this to be a complaining thread about one event, but on suggestions to make future events more fun, or at least stopping it from ruining the fun of others, involved or not.

and +1 to Hudson's statements, DM's are in the end players like the rest of us that just want to have a good time.

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I am not weird, I am limited edition

My response to this is easy.

The Burden of Leadership.

The role of DM comes with responsibility. Don't want it? Don't take it. Like your character more than being a DM? Don't be a DM.

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I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

I don't agree that DMs shouldn't play. Ever. They need that fun and stress release just as much as any of us. However, should they be held tightly to the rules that bind? Absolutely.

If a DM plays Joe Jack in Cordor, and like most DM characters, Joe Jack is in a position of importance,I don't think they should be DMing in, say, Kohlingen. It's a conflict of interest, wherein Joe Jack would benefit from Bad Things happening in Kohlingen, and very few people are able to totally separate that. I don't honestly think any current DMs can, if we were to speak honestly. Perhaps Yossarin, when he DMed. But he's an odd duck, always has been, and isn't like most DMs.

Likewise, I think it's a bit eyerolling that there is exactly two active cities I can think of that are not run by DM PCs. (That's the Shrine and Bendir, if you wondered.)

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

You forgot the greatest one of all, Nec'perya. 100% player run

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Barak Runedar baby!!

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fairdady..

I will forever love Yossarin for taking Cordor on a journey that it never expected, but that it desperately needed. He started this shit a long time ago and it wasn't epic then. It became epic. Certain people rose to power because no one was paying enough attention or getting involved enough-- and that's how the world works. I mean, drow got banned from Cordor about 6 RL years ago and that (and other races/species) are still a major plot point in terms of the Commonwealth Government. It's amazing. It was and will always be awesome. He may deserve a spanking for a lot ( ), but the Cordor plot is like the best long-term and most deservedly epic (as in, it's not over-the-top) thing I've ever been a part of. Even if it is/was way too much drama in some respects.

Granted, a lot of newer additions to the story don't know the reality of the backgrounds.

And don't they know it.

To be fair, I already addressed the DM team a while back about one thing: I amended my original viewpoint slightly. Forcibly excluding yourself to only DM'ing can have some bad consequences, but it really depends upon the individual. I am capable of doing so, but there comes a point at which I have to shift focus entirely and re-engage with the player world or I risk losing touch. Which happened. And that had some bad consequences.

My advice now is that each individual DM needs to put some thought into how to balance what they want and need out of Amia with their DM'ly responsibility and find a way to make it work. I was admittedly fond of Bobo's approach of DM'ing almost exclusively, and then playing exclusively, and then DM'ing exclusively, for "terms of service" each time, it seemed. I don't know if he planned it that way or not, but I like the model.

Analog, if it was a well paid position I'd agree.

P Three, Kohlingen isnt led by a DM pc either even if Ulrik has a lot of influence its the council that leads and he isnt on that (anymore).

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Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

My point revolves around the rule that a player that leads a faction cannot have a toon in another faction. DM's are essential the epitome of this. They are in charge of the /server/. The player faction rule was to inhibit metagaming, and to encourage the faction leader to be able to better run said faction. The same should apply to a DM. Again, if the DM like's their character that they've invested in for years more than being a DM, then they shouldn't be a DM. I'm not denying the prospect of said DM's player acct toon to be able to RP in the various places on the server, only that they shouldn't be allowed have a proper place in the various opposing factions for the sake of avoiding a conflict of interest.
An example just popped up too, however it's actually meant, I don't know, I just call the example. Rigela made a notice in the Kohlingen ban list as a DM...by the look of it...though I don't know a /single/ character she plays in Kohlingen. All of her 'main'...and again, I stress 'main'....toons have nothing to do with Kohlingen in that regard. Phrae is a Shriner at last call, and Shyilia is Winyan. Again, the details or specifics are what they are, it's not part of my point. The point is DM 'A' governing an area that their 'mains' aren't a part of. Magiros *spelling...I'm sorry * made a comment about Captain Amilith shooting a warning arrow at her...maybe because a DM that doesn't frequent Winya didn't know Ael reputation there? Or didn't know the kind of guy Amilith is? Who knows. The possibilities are endless, and I'm not making excuses. The idea is obvious though...at least to me.

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I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

I can understand not wanting to give up my toon that I've invested in, if it were a paid endeavor. But it's not. We're playing a game here. It's a bunch of pixels on the screen. I could easily do without Derrin, even though I like him so much, and have worked on him as much as I have.

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I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

That's nonsense, to be honest. Stories are coordinated, and DMs are chosen for their integrity. It's not difficult to separate in general what you know and want, and what your character knows and wants. The very fact that the DM is not involved in that faction makes them more objective. It's easier to miss the subtle bias when you're working closer to home - perhaps your PC has strong views about how a certain city should operate, and that may filter into NPC reactions. That's not a huge danger either, but certainly it's not a better way to handle things. DMs know what goes on anyway, reading eachothers' logs and event planning topics.

As for the second point, if it were true: I think it reveals the politically incorrect truth that some players are better than others. Given that DMs are chosen for the quality of their RP, the inspiration and contribution they make as players, their supposed intelligence and/or their known moral character, it's not surprising that their PCs remain successful after they're chosen as DMs. The ministerial elections in Cordor showed, if anything, that despite complaints like yours there really aren't many viable candidates willing to step up when they have the chance. If player characters started showing more initiative and more competence, they might get somewhere.

I don't see what this theoretical discussion has to do with the topic, though. There are no problems of DM favoritism or metagaming on Amia. Making an issue of something "just because" is counter-productive.

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Shadowfiend, I certainly did not aim to anyone when I spoke about complaining. I think the problem with people who stop having fun because of events, is because they simply are pushed out of their comfort zone. When you change something in a routine, it may create uneasy feels on the player part, with examples granted above in the form of Plot changes to usual RP area.

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login:mirvala
Em'rae d'Ussen d'Vhid
No mercy for the kivvil
aka AgentOfLyumis

I'm not naming specifics, Iron, nor am I accusing anything. I remember a comment Tormak made a couple years ago, regarding the possibility of metagaming. And I paraphrase: "the less you know, the less mistakes you can make". The idea being.....we're all human. We make mistakes, shit happens. What I'm saying is, despite the obvious credentials a DM has to deserve the postiion, and regardless of how much they trade information in order to coordinate stories and plot lines, the conflict of interest is still there.

My point isn't black and white, nor it it definite. We can obviously see how many ways this can be argued, but look at some of Yossarin's posts, both here and in the Alt-itis thread "A dissertation on concentration". He has the idea.

I'm not arguing specifics. I'm arguing an idea, which is what we're supposed to be coming up with in the OP.

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I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

I'm pretty sure the rule is no one player can lead two factions, not that you cannot lead faction A and be a member of faction B. Could be wrong, though.


Riggy is the DM of Kohl, sooo... yep.


As for DM's being forced to DM the place their mains play in... that's just a silly idea that Iron summed up nicely:


I mean, if you can't trust your DMs then who can you trust?

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Wow....talk about taking it wrong.....*sighs*

It's not about trust. I covered that




And i know the faction rule. My point is that DM's are in charge of something greater. Rigela is the DM of Kohlingen, but her /mains/ are not part of Kohlingen. /That/ was my point. Great if she is, but ...IN MY OPINON.....her toons should /also/ be part of said faction/city, thereby giving said DM a better opportunity to drive that city/factions' RP.



I'll quote it again for those of you that missed it.

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I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

The trust comment was not directly solely towards you, so do not take it that way. It was a general comment.

edit: Just wanted to add I'm not coming down on you, I just don't think it's a good idea so I'm arguing against it. In case I'm coming off like a dick when I don't mean to

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

That's where you fail to understand the signification of "Conflict of Interest".

A conflict of interest would happen, in this situation, if the interest of the DM as player were to conflict with her role as a DM. It would make their view, actions and opinions subjective since they take part of the action playerside.

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login:mirvala
Em'rae d'Ussen d'Vhid
No mercy for the kivvil
aka AgentOfLyumis

I agree with that. I put my other toon for 'better days', sometimes hunting on him just to add some levels, but it made me confused when I had to remember what does one character know and what the other (since one is halfling, often spending time in the Shrine, the other is elf).

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Cyn & Velden story ~ life after death
'Now life has killed the dream I dreamed.'

This is a bit of a silly segue.

1. In this very thread people seem to notice a certain shortage of active DMs. Say the team took the advice to strike all or some PCs from their play and focused on DMing. Okay. Then observe as the DM team shrinks - I'm sure some of them can handle it but I've heard and seen enough of the overworking, the frustration, the spurts of activity inherent in the job to say that a lot of them will eventually want to go back to playerdom and be willing to set aside DMhood for it. Then we'll have even fewer DMs and an even bigger problem getting them to run settlement NPCs.

2. DMs only DMing settlements in which they have PCs is a recipe for disaster. It will breed discontent and it will constrain DM objectivity. Conflicts of interest - even if a DM's integrity is beyond reproach in reality, people will assume otherwise, scrutinise heavily, there will be overcorrection, problems problems problems. Wouldn't work out. That said, it would be better if DMs made certain to better organise pertinent information relating to the settlement they're DMing. That way we don't have odd situations about PCs having a variable reputation with a single settlement (or even a single NPC) depending on who is at the helm. This has been a problem for a few of us it seems. It's hard to manage this unfortunately, but the team did mention some sort of Rep system which might help to alleviate the matter.


Moving on. I do have some concerns about the direction of the DM team. Not "rar fix this" just "hmm, this could go bad".

3. Sadly I am missing most of the main plot that's going on but I'm starting to get very nervous at the number of DMs involved. It seems like a clusterfuck waiting to happen, as the chance of PC curveballing (the bane of any DM's planning) rise exponentially the more moving parts you have in the situation. It also increases the risk of railroading and/or perceivable railroading, which is only a good thing if PCs don't notice it or don't feel excessively helpless (or excessively helped). Not saying it can't be handled, just it's harder. Although, assisting-DMs work out for this okay because it's still being led in one direction and the threat is usually fairly singular, though it may be broad. If that's the case I have nothing to be worried about.

4. The trend of beefing up monsters ad infinitum is worrying because it restricts progress to large, server-groaning groups and encourages powerbuilding over roleplaying builds, spell slots filled with combat spells rather than P&P utilities. Believe it or not there are other ways to challenge players aside from employing tactical and strategic threats - we have a broad spectrum of skills to roll, and also puzzles, treasure hunt-style mini-adventures or investigations, talky-talky stuff... Could use more of this and less showing off of monsters with comically ridiculous stats. I guess this runs counter to the arguments by people who disagree with the earth-scorching of Bendir and that other place - restoring the damage is largely non-combative and more about puzzle-solving and resource management. It brings me to my next point...

And to address the parts of the topic I've actually read:

5. The arguments regarding mundane PCs vs magical ones is always one that interest me. Mundanes feel they can't contribute because, well, they're just regular people in a world of magic - there is literally no way to un-scorch Bendir or the Shrine by mundane means, because it's a magical problem in entirety. Their options are to look for a mage PC who can sort it out, or hope the DM has planned some sort of magical McGuffin in a remote location that they can research and quest for. And the former is always much easier than the latter - and god forbid you have the PCs struggle for the McGuffin and return only to find some wizards already solved the problem a week ago. This has been D&D's problem for as long as I can remember. Sorry, but we just have to live with it, and hope the DMs will be accomodating.

On the other hand, I've heard from multiple players of mage PCs that they tend to find that DMs are ignoring their powerful, problem-solving acts that they feel entitled to use. When put in this context it does make the mage players sound rather insensitive, which isn't necessarily the case - I've known a few who are capable of working with mundanes enough to allow them to actually contribute. And we take these classes and their weaknesses with the expectations of a few toys, so it sucks not to be able to use them. But I don't agree that they are correct in blaming DMs - the problem is that mages are difficult to DM for. Because of the resources at their disposal and the readyness with which they can brandish it, you simply can't plan for the actions of a mage. That leaves improv, and if you happen to actually be good at it, you have to be careful not to fuck up the plot or embark down a road upon which only the mage and his/her best friends can follow, leaving everyone else behind. Shifters are pretty bad too, because they MAKE NO SENSE (seriously, the requirement to be a Shifter should change from 5 Druid levels to: be a perpetual motion engine, because it abuses the laws of thermodynamics more than wizards ever will). In this light one can understand a DM stonewalling P&P spell use. Especially some of the dodgier source materials out there (DMkill the next PC who tries to use Riverine for anything ever).

Ideally, DMs know how to handle mage players who are in turn reasonable in the actions their character attempts and patient with the DM's attempts to work with them. Mage players are willing to work with mundane PCs in a way that gives them actual stuff to do. And mundane PCs, sadly, just have to put up with the fact that they're second-class citizens in D&D... that said, it's worth noting that they do make up the majority of active, plot-following PCs, and not every caster is a worldshaper. So at least you're on even footing with most of the playerbase.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

Semselves, Tarkuul. erbiris makes a lot of reasonable, good arguments, but I'd like to clarify that Bendir did in fact search for help from spellcasters and such, both the Grove and as they said th

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I am not weird, I am limited edition

Funny thing about the Dale's problem and the need for a spellcaster: I conceived of a solution on my own that I wanted to present, but my hands got full. It didn't involve the need for a spellcaster at all. I made the assumption that possibly a toxin was in the soil, maybe magical in nature, but essentially physical. I was going to research and see if there was a kind of killer weed...like bloodvines!...that could be mass planted to suck up those killer anti-nutrients and maybe try to restore things in a more natural way. And thus present a neat complication of them maybe becoming gorged and oversized and dangerous and then you have a bunch of hin in an overgrown thatch of killer foliage trying to beat it back in an epic quest to save the spring preserves!

But you can't use this idea now, even if it would have been feasible.

On the subject of DM's and conflicts of interest:

Every DM has access to every bit of information on the forums, every brainstorming tid-bit on every plot we conceive.

But we also have a lot of practice playing against ourselves-- not for the sake of our personal victory (That's silly, because one part of us is going to lose, while the other wins)... but for the sake of the story. A single DM, for example, can make numerous NPC's that are in direct conflict with each other-- then they invite PC's to take part on either sides, and continue coordinating events. Look at Kobra's work, for example.

Every day, DM's practice incredible restraint when it comes to metagaming information for their PC's. Any time a DM logs onto his PC, they are in a conflict of interest. I don't care what they're doing-- its a conflict of interest, because of how much we know. All the secrets that took years to culminate, and even details of the plot that have yet to unfold.

You're looking at a group of people who work very hard, unpaid, to help better your experiences. These folks are pretty darn selfless, in my experience. They have an incredible, practiced ability to thicken the boundary between IC and OOC. We understand that if our character fails or succeeds, its a reflection on IC-- rather than on the player itself. It becomes an issue when a person starts viewing their IC failures as their own player failures. They start to take things personally, and they also start to develop a more ruthless OOC mentality that pushes them to win, win, win ICly.

On top of all the checks we have against each other, and the personal decisions some DM's make to remove themselves from seeing details of certain plots-- DM's approach playing in a very different way than most players do.

TL/DR: While there may have been history of DM's abusing their powers, but this is something we take very seriously, something that is always on our minds, and something that every day, we work diligently to keep from being a problem.

Hax, it is awesome not knowing anymore. I have the joy of coming to the same deranged, paranoid conclusions that everyone else does when it comes to DM plots!