What's the take on morningstars? Looking for different weapons to try still, and don't know how morningstars measure up in terms of being decent weapons and availability of good versions. I know there's the Ascending Star which sounds like it would be very nice for a Pally (though I bet the +2 Divine vs Evil would get overwritten by pally spells anyways).
Are there even epic variants of morningstars? I don't think I have ever seen one.
This would be for a paladin build, instead of doing the plain jane longsword.
edit: Weird, my search didn't show it before but now I see there was an auction posted yesterday with a trueforged morningstar and warhammer. Hmm... warhammer... damnit.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
You cant dualwield a morningstar in nwn. So its a poopy on a Ranger.
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Dont be a douchey douche. If you want help and never make up your mind.
Morningstar is an excellent choice because it gets two damage types.
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
I was satisfied with what I discovered about the Ranger build. So I decided to work on my Pally build. It's called being prepared ;p
And that's true, part of the reason I thought of them. Plus no one uses them so it's different
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Idly thinking, but were I to go Bard 25/Fighter 4, what would be a weapon I'd want to spec? Due to AC considerations (Though I certainly have the Dex for it), I'm not thinking dual-wielding,b ut could be persuaded to do that if there's an argument. Neither Blackguard or CoT really.. Make sense for the PC, despite how much more useful they would be. But yeah, I'd sooner not get burned on my choice of weapon spec by going, say, (Figuratively) light flail and discovering there are two light flails that have dropped. Ever. I'm thinking longsword is a safe standby, though?
I was also thinking tacking on 3 levels of rogue (To avoid a multiclass penalty), but taking that in any useful combination I could think of would lead to < 16 BAB which would be bad, so I'm thinking on just keeping the Bard/Fighter go of it. Solid enough build for the server as a sort of support/buff melee thing?
_________________ GSID: TheWrathOfInnos Plays: Ilaria Thilmos - Dirgesinger I do LPs too!
Idly thinking, but were I to go Bard 25/Fighter 4, what would be a weapon I'd want to spec? Due to AC considerations (Though I certainly have the Dex for it), I'm not thinking dual-wielding,b ut could be persuaded to do that if there's an argument. Neither Blackguard or CoT really.. Make sense for the PC, despite how much more useful they would be. But yeah, I'd sooner not get burned on my choice of weapon spec by going, say, (Figuratively) light flail and discovering there are two light flails that have dropped. Ever. I'm thinking longsword is a safe standby, though?
I was also thinking tacking on 3 levels of rogue (To avoid a multiclass penalty), but taking that in any useful combination I could think of would lead to < 16 BAB which would be bad, so I'm thinking on just keeping the Bard/Fighter go of it. Solid enough build for the server as a sort of support/buff melee thing?
Idly thinking, but were I to go Bard 25/Fighter 4, what would be a weapon I'd want to spec? Due to AC considerations (Though I certainly have the Dex for it), I'm not thinking dual-wielding,b ut could be persuaded to do that if there's an argument. Neither Blackguard or CoT really.. Make sense for the PC, despite how much more useful they would be. But yeah, I'd sooner not get burned on my choice of weapon spec by going, say, (Figuratively) light flail and discovering there are two light flails that have dropped. Ever. I'm thinking longsword is a safe standby, though?
I was also thinking tacking on 3 levels of rogue (To avoid a multiclass penalty), but taking that in any useful combination I could think of would lead to < 16 BAB which would be bad, so I'm thinking on just keeping the Bard/Fighter go of it. Solid enough build for the server as a sort of support/buff melee thing?
Alrighty, you said bard, that means I come to save the day. If you're doing a bard then the first thing please please please remember to take maximize and extend spell. They are wonderful. 25 Levels is a good stopping place for a bard because that's a key spot when the song steps up it's game.
For the tasks at hand: Level Spread: I assume using only 29 levels there you are facing an ECL, taking 4 fighter pre-epic gives you the BAB of 16, some spare feats and so forth. But sadly because you're not taking either 1 level of fighter or DC in epic you will miss out on Epic weapon specialization. Which is fine- depending what you want out of the build, being dex based I would consider making a play for it, if you want a bit more bam in your swing.
For the weapons: Rapier is a good choice if you plan on not doing dual wield, bards don't have a ton of feats, even with fighter thrown in. But hey you can dual wield if you want... And if you want to dual wield handaxes, short sword, or daggers depending on your flavor.
If you need more assistance or to clarify stuff hit my inbox.
Ps: Yes anything with 25 levels of bard is ?GREAT support.
EDIT: To Include insight from your post
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
I was mostly leaning longsword for a few reasons. My base Str is only one point lower than base Dex at this point (I put a point in it at 4), longsword has a higher base damage, it works with Keen Edge, not taking Finesse leaves me room for one other feat (Like KD!), and it makes feats like KD work better. Also gives more damage and AB as opposed to just AB. With Cat's Grace I can max out the Dex allowance on a chain shirt already, and unfortunately unlike in NWN2 Bards don't get a free pass on casting in light armor even if more Dex meant I could move down to a lighter armor. Also Reflex (Which I already have decent) is from experience the 'least' important save to worry about.
Now if the server features absolutely amazing rapiers that might change my opinion. But focusing strength and longswords seems the way to do it to me.
_________________ GSID: TheWrathOfInnos Plays: Ilaria Thilmos - Dirgesinger I do LPs too!
That could also work fine. Would still get me Lingering Song which is the main thrust of why I'm going so high in Bard. (That and more Song usefulness in general. 100 rounds per song is ridiculous though).
_________________ GSID: TheWrathOfInnos Plays: Ilaria Thilmos - Dirgesinger I do LPs too!
Are there any particular conventions for building pure-30 sorcerers? Must-haves, stat/skill allocations that are important beyond CHA and spellcraft, etc?
Also, how do those conventions and overall power change if you're dealing with ECL+2?
A few pages back, somebody posted an idea for a staff-fighting monk build, and that sounds like the most amazing idea to me. I've always wanted to be a staff-fighter across the games I've played, and I haven't gotten the chance to do so yet. Problem is, I've played a STR-based monk before, and even fully buffed I'd die a bunch and I just felt like I was being a burden on the party. A staff-based monk build that's balanced between damage and defense would be great, but I really do not know my way around character building (yet). Does anyone have any good ideas for stats/feats, or a build laid out for this that I can reference? Any help is greatly appreciated. Staves are too.
Go pure monk, get strength after 14 wis and 14 dex, be a strength based quarterstaff user.
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
It's a bit of a weird build, but neat. Plus a Monk/WM combo on that sweet qstaff sounds fun. Especially when it makes things go explodey. Only thing I can think to change is exchange Armor Skin for Epic Prowess, but seems unnecessary to do that since it's not a DEX-based Monk and therefore will lack some of the typical AC. I -think- it gets: 10 (base AC) + 1 (DEX mod) + 6 (DEX gear) + 2 (WIS mod) + 6 (WIS gear) + 5 (boots) + 4 (cloak) + 4 (ammy) + 5 (robes) + 2 (Armor Skin) = 45 AC
Decent, I suppose. But it should be beating the hell out of things in exchange, plus GTFO of there speed.
Serious thoughts on this?
Not the best, but it's decently fun at level 12. Having a party really helps, though, cause my AC isn't the greatest so far.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Shit. Don't listen to me, I'm too used to unarmed/kama monks XD
Yeah Finesse doesn't work with q-staffs, so it would have to be STR based. Just watch out for the AC! It definitely helps to be in a party, I can tell you that much.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
I've not played for about two years, so I have no idea how it's going to fare at ECL18+, but my STR-base quarterstaff Monk is pretty sexy at the minute.
As soon as I saw the Flurry tweak I thought 'do want' and made a Rogue/FTR which happened to have Monk levels for Flurry and free IKD. RPly, he's as monastic as you like, but functionally he's a STR Rogue. Rogue16/FTR8/Monk6 Devcrit at close of play.
His AC isn't wonderful; it'll top out at 51, which is exactly the same as a normal sword'n'board Tumbledump'n'Brokenboots STR chap, so it's not a disaster either. A real Monk build will get at least 3 more AC from levels, and have access to 2 more if you take 14 base WIS, which you can fit into the build easily enough.
In terms of DPS, I do think you severely limiting yourself by going heavy Monk rather than heavy Rogue, because Flurry and the Monk BAB progression have such a synergy with Sneak Attack, but you're still going to doing the work of one and a half normal sluggers, and by Monk20 you're immune to so much stuff that it's a pretty relaxing ride. I've done a STR/SR pure Monk and a Monk21/DwD5/FTR4 both with fists, and while I can't say how well they'd do nowadays, they were a good mix of DPS and tanking, although their middling AB meant their best arena was PvMob.
A STR-based Monk/Rogue isn't a character in the Mylocks. It's a free XP machine. I've outgrown them, but I didn't once meet a party that could kill more than one Mylock in the time it took mine to dust the other five.
Could people give me their thoughts on a Dwarven Monk/DwD ? I'm imagining him to basically be stumpy Bruce Lee - knockdowns, flips and righteous poundings!
_________________
Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
Could people give me their thoughts on a Dwarven Monk/DwD ? I'm imagining him to basically be stumpy Bruce Lee - knockdowns, flips and righteous poundings!
It works excellent, but you should discuss more about your level spread you're looking for.
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
I've done a STR/SR pure Monk and a Monk21/DwD5/FTR4 both with fists, and while I can't say how well they'd do nowadays, they were a good mix of DPS and tanking, although their middling AB meant their best arena was PvMob.
That's pretty much the size of it. You build it like any other STR-based Monk, basically. Then again, you can try different mixes like Monk6/DwD18/Fighter6 for giggles. But DEX isn't going to do you any favours unless you're doing something like Monk6/DwD5/Rogue19.
Could people give me their thoughts on a Dwarven Monk/DwD ? I'm imagining him to basically be stumpy Bruce Lee - knockdowns, flips and righteous poundings!
It works excellent, but you should discuss more about your level spread you're looking for.
Arsehole answer incoming: Whatever is optimal.
I honestly don't know apart from thinking that a DwD with the Monk effects would be pretty cool. I wouldn't know whether to tank CON/WIS or STR/WIS or STR/CON for the life of me though, thus why I asked - I come up with teh RP reason, you guys go fishing and compare which one is biggest with me and then I make a decision! (I suck, I know!)
_________________
Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
Unless you do stupid things like Svensk suggests, DwD/Monk really only works to the 25/5 or 24/6 split, simply because Monks, unlike most other classes, should be increasing four ability scores depending on archetype.
If Strength then: Strength, Wisdom, Dexterity, Constitution If Dexterity then: Dexterity, Strength, Wisdom, Constitution
You literally have bugger all room to gear for Damage Reduction so taking to much DwD over the boni offered from Monk levels is silly.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
Monk16/DwD4 going into Monk20/DwD6/Ftr4. It's a close run thing between quarterstaff and fists - really the only difference is that you get Keen on staffs which edges it out, but if you like the look of fisticuffs, it won't break the build.
Buy lots of Owl's Insight scrolls. You won't be able to use them yourself, but the odds of being in a party where no-one as UMD is about nil, so get them to read you what Opustus calls bedtime stories, and nab that +3/+4 AC hawtness.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
69 Is not enough in pvp terms. Any full bab class gets more than 49 ab, WM, barbarian, bards, clerics. Hell a ton of people can smash 69 AC folks.
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
There's one, the Tenarii Deadeye, but nothing else shy of bosses run at ~50AB. Oh, if Actand still exists, then the nasty wee lads with Blind On-Hit slings will have that kind of AB too. It was a design philosophy of mine that archers should be constant HP drain, so I always pimped their AB to high heaven.
Barbarian/fighter/weapon master with the feats Knockdown, Weapon Specialization, Blind Fight, Improved Critical, and all the WM required feats.
What feat should I take at level 18? Improved expertise since my AC is balls? Improved knockdown since my AB is epic? Is there anything I actually need?
Rebuild and choose one or the other. Barbariab without significant con vs wm without signifcant all day ab.
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
I've been putting off the decision for Rogue13 and Rogue16 feats on Adam as long as I can, but he's likely to level there tonight or tomorrow.
STR-based Rogue/Monk; plainly a Sneak-spammer. Improved Sneak Attack at 16 is looking highly tasty, but 13's a lot more troublesome.
Probably the Skill Focus? Then again, I've never played a character with Slippery Mind and it sounds uzzm to get 399/400th worth of Will immunity, assuming pimped save.
Just drink a mindblank. Get crippling strike already I assume, if not get it. Then get improved unsneaking strike.
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
Improved Unsneaking Strike? Whowhatnow? Got Crippling at 10.
You aint sneaking! Youre just smacking with that big stick!
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
The sidebar, nwnwikia and Google have nothing about Improved Unsneaking Strike. I can smell trolling like a fart in a jacuzzi, and right now my muzzle is twitching.
What is the build that, using melee attacks only (and no other set conditions, meaning flanking is possible, for example), what melee build will do the -most- damage per round on average?
These are the builds I personally think may be in contention, feel free to let me know of some others you think might be extremely high in damage output (and if it's not immediately obvious, feel free to mention why you think it would be one of the higher-damaging builds):
Barbarian/Fighter/Weapon Master (rage bonuses, epic weapon specialization, and Weapon Master criticals) Rogue/Monk/Weapon Master (Sneak attacking with a quarterstaff, using Monk attacks per round and Weapon Master criticals) Rogue/Fighter/Weapon Master (Sneak attacking with almost any decent weapon, epic weapon specialization, and weapon master criticals) Paladin/Divine Champion/Weapon Master (Great Smiting weapon master critical, with a scythe... Although average damage may be low, you can get 800+ damage crits, which are pretty awesome)
What are some builds you think could be the "most damaging build"? This is for a competition I wish to host some time on Amia, and also for general build learning, if anyone's curious.
It's conditional, that's your problem, so there is no one build.
For an enemy that can be Critted but not Sneaked and your character won't die when fighting(and Thou Shalt Not Subtract Raise Interval From DPS/hour) then it's a +2STR race Ftr11/WM19 with a twohander. I know because I have one, and if his party can keep him alive, he is absurd.
If your enemy can be Sneaked, doesn't have great AC and this character is Sneaking at the time, then it's a STR-base Monk4/BG5/Rogue21.
If your enemy is Undead, then it's a Paladin base.
If your enemy is not Undead, but can't be Critted or Sneaked, then it's a Ranger which has that kind of Construct or Elemental or Outsider as a Favoured Enemy.
It's conditional, that's your problem, so there is no one build.
For an enemy that can be Critted but not Sneaked and your character won't die when fighting(and Thou Shalt Not Subtract Raise Interval From DPS/hour) then it's a +2STR race Ftr11/WM19 with a twohander. I know because I have one, and if his party can keep him alive, he is absurd.
If your enemy can be Sneaked, doesn't have great AC and this character is Sneaking at the time, then it's a STR-base Monk4/BG5/Rogue21.
If your enemy is Undead, then it's a Paladin base.
If your enemy is not Undead, but can't be Critted or Sneaked, then it's a Ranger which has that kind of Construct or Elemental or Outsider as a Favoured Enemy.
I know there's no one build - I thought I implied, especially by listing many builds myself, that I wanted to see any builds anyone could come up with, not just "teh hax0rz bui1dz". You did exactly what I was asking for, and listed several interesting builds, so thank you!
Why 19 WM levels in your first build, though? Is it just for the AB bonus?
_________________ Osiris Masud
Last edited by MisterLich on Sun, Jan 05 2014, 4:36 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
MisterLich wrote:
Uberuce wrote:
It's conditional, that's your problem, so there is no one build.
For an enemy that can be Critted but not Sneaked and your character won't die when fighting(and Thou Shalt Not Subtract Raise Interval From DPS/hour) then it's a +2STR race Ftr11/WM19 with a twohander. I know because I have one, and if his party can keep him alive, he is absurd.
If your enemy can be Sneaked, doesn't have great AC and this character is Sneaking at the time, then it's a STR-base Monk4/BG5/Rogue21.
If your enemy is Undead, then it's a Paladin base.
If your enemy is not Undead, but can't be Critted or Sneaked, then it's a Ranger which has that kind of Construct or Elemental or Outsider as a Favoured Enemy.
I know there's no one build - I thought I implied, especially by listing many builds myself, that I wanted to see any builds anyone could come up with, not just "teh hax0rz bui1dz". You did exactly what I was asking for, and listed several interesting builds, so thank you!
Why 19 WM levels in your first build, though? Is it for the AB bonus?
Aha! The 19 WM guys! I remember you and Opustus made earth genasi Gnomes to make use of +2STR and +1AB from Small statue. The AB was high
Let's see... 4AB From WM. 1 Prowess 15 Modifier 5 GMW 3 EWF 25 BAB =53?
Edit - Oh right. You had 2 Druid to get Natures sense; so its actually 55 AB
The sidebar, nwnwikia and Google have nothing about Improved Unsneaking Strike. I can smell trolling like a fart in a jacuzzi, and right now my muzzle is twitching.
Well since you aren't sneaking, you need to Improve your Unsneaking Strikes, using your non-thieving-thug bonus feats.
_________________ Gahnn Bluetusk Aleksandr Vespermouth II "Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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