Quarterstaff does, not shurikens.

Quarterstaff is lovely, btw.

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

Oh, please, not another paladin build.

No, I was thinking something more like a Thibbledorf Pwent (Battlerager, if you want).

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Daegan Van'Straaten - Duty to Helm is above all!

I suppose you can just roll out another run-of-the-mill Barb24/Fighter4/Rogue2 with reduced damage from stupidity to wear nowt but your knuckles. There's absolutely no way to do it sensibly, and Monk1-6 with Divine Might/Shield and the funk is simply the best I can think of. Not a whole lot of rager in that, though.

You can always try your luck and request a character with monk used solely for the mechanics, though I'm not certain where the DMs stand on that. I do know, however, that the high chapesses here are rather to the political left and lenient on exceptions to confirm the rule. A Monk played chaotically with no regard to the actual alignment showing on the character sheet might be passable, if requested.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

This may sound a bit duh, but since I've never played a shifter before: Do shifters retain bonuses to saves from Dark Blessing/Divine Grace while polymorphed? Can they cast Divine Might/Shield shifted, akin to using character feats such as KD and Disarm?

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

Why you callin' me a twat? I thought we was cool?

Throwing CHA into a Monk build is painful...but in an attempt to stick with it:

The Evil Aasimar Monk of Pain, Death, & General Nastiness!

STR 18 (26 at level 29)
DEX 10
CON 10
WIS 14
INT 10
CHA 14

Go 4 Monk / 6 Fighter / 10 BG pre-epic
Go 2 Monk / 1 Fighter / 6 BG in epic (take EWF: hands & epic summon on BG bonus feats, then AS, Great Strength I, & Epic Spec on general feats)

You get 47 AB, some sneakage, an epic fiend summon, Divine Might, Divine Shield, blah blah blah...
You also have shit for AC...but that's going to happen regardless.

Enjoy!

You didn't jsut put Aasimar and Evil in the same build, did you?

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login:mirvala
Em'rae d'Ussen d'Vhid
No mercy for the kivvil
aka AgentOfLyumis

I've made an Aasimar Blackguard that followed Orcus and hunted the followers of other evil Deities. It was pretty fun.

*Sigh*

Stupid ability incentives.

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login:mirvala
Em'rae d'Ussen d'Vhid
No mercy for the kivvil
aka AgentOfLyumis

Not only did I do it, I just edited the stats (because I forgot the poster wanted to wear armor).

Master scout speed + Barbarian speed = Stacks right? Just dubble-checking in case i say something bad to somebody

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

Since we are on monk builds: I have a dwarf who is currently 12 monk/4DwD with the goal of ending up at 25/5. Quartstaffer, str based of course. And with improved disarm for some reason I can't really remember. What bugs at me is the question of when to take the last DwD level, now for the sweet sneak immunity or much later to dump points in spot? I will not take ESF in spot anyway, so I'm not sure why I should not take listen instead.

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

Svensk, I am over 90% confident my Barb/MS is more sprightly outdoors than in. Can't be bothered testing properly, though.

QPR: Spot is the one that actually lets you kill competent Shadowdancers by direct Stealth Vs Detect combat, but only when Epic Focused.

Listen is better for foiling eavesdroppers because it works round corners and actually flags the fact they're in stealth, whereas with Spot you might just think it's someone standing around not saying much, and if they are round a corner but in earshot, you won't see them.
It's probably about the same for direct Stealth vs Detect on cornersneaks and passable for using the indirect means of assault like Implosion.

For Shadowdancers that believe stealth is godmode, Listen does fine. The big advantages are the lack of need to Epic Focus it, and the ease of buffing it off-gear.

That's kinda damnation by faint praise, but there it is.

In otherw ords, no real reason to put off that last DwD level?

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

Now I have the idea for a dex based dwarf monk that wields an axe and goes screaming and charging into battle at high speed. Fuck.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I'm doing some kind of melee paladin. First time doing something like this, so I need some tips.
1/I wanted to put brew potion of craft wand in it. It would be good for others and it would save some spells slots. Craft wand could make holy avenger, but it's limited by the number of bone wands for all other things. So which one do you think is better?

2/ And also this one doesn't have devast nor is dedicated smiter. But is it worth taking extra smithing? (CHA modifier is +10 buffed). Or does smite takes whole round, which in that case wouldn't be good idea.

3/ Is extended spell good for paladin? I don't think maximize or empower is good here.

4/ Is knockdown good? I found it not necessary in PvE and I don't know about PvP.

1/ Holy Sword only works for Paladins, even when cast from items, so if you want a crafting feat take Brew Potion so everyone can use them.

3/ It extends Divine Favour and Prayer, and therefore is awesome.

4/ Yes. Blindfight is also extremely good.

I don't know enough about Paladinning to answer 2.

1) I recall the character Justin Fairfax had craft wand, and it was appreciated by many in Kohl. Those with enough UMD ranks will also gain the holy avenger boni, as I recall.

2) Smiting does not take up a whole round. You can get all 3 smites off in a single one. The damage of the regular smite is not that terrific. However, you also get your charisma modifier added to your attack bonus, which makes it somewhat useful to try to hit something tough. On a none great smite build, I would likely prefer taking another feat in it's place, and using sure strike potions against anything I am not able to hit.

3) What Uce said.

4) What Uce said.

Baden ironblood should post his generic 20/20 build. It's awesome

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NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2

Thank you both for replies.

Brew potion it is.
And I meant knockdown, not blindfight, which I will take for sure.

And other thing, do one have to invest a lot into taunt? I can either max concentration and put few points in taunt or I could do it other way. I never used taunt, but I heard it's good.

My current character is a balanced pally that will end with 18 STR 10 DEX 12 CON 14 WIS 14 INT and 18 CHA. Went with 10 DEX so I can get +1 with a single potion. No need for dex on gear.

Anyway, I took KD and IKD because without dev or great smite, there's no way to quickly kill so you must disable.

I took 15 ranks in taunt and I'm saving the rest for a spot dump maybe but IDK if that's worth it. I like taunt but your ab will already be decent so it's not needed. Taunt does add arcane spell failure to casters as well and that's useful but in order to beat their high concentration, you need a lot of taunt. Good thing is that it is a CHA skill so you'll have +10 just from that. I'm not putting any points into concentration because I won't be casting in combat very much and if you get taunted yourself, just use divine shield *shrug*

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“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.”
-Albert Einstein

1. Justin's craft wand ability was drooled over by everyone who wanted Bless Weapon against undead on their weapon. For that reason alone if you are a pali it is NOT worth taking. Keep that tiny benefit that palis have to palis. Besides a good pali build is starved for feats and craft wand you really don't have the room for. (see half and half build later)

2. Extra Smiting on a non smiting paladin is a waste. It is a bit extra damage but you are better off taking Extra Turning to you can spam divine might and shield.

3. Extended Spell is a MUST for any paladin. With it alone you can get an extra 5-6 divine favors. +5 AB and +5 damage for 2 whole RL minutes! No paladin should be without!

4. Knockdown is necessary because you can't dev or smit. I took mine in lieu of Blind Fight. Like I said the build is feat starved and you must pick your poison to some extent.

Half and Half build (Aasimar)

P1 Power Attack; Weapon Focus: Longsword
P2
P3 Extend Spell
P4 +1 Strength (15)
P5
P6 Extra Turning
P7
P8 +1 Strength (16)
P9 Improved Critical: Longsword
P10
P11
P12 +1 Strength (17); Divine Shield
P13
P14
P15 Knockdown
P16 +1 Strength (18)
P17
P18 Divine Might
P19
P20 +1 Strength (19)
F21 Great Strength I (20); Epic Weapon Focus: Longsword;
F22 Armor Skin
F23
F24 +1 Charisma (18) Weapon Specialization: Longsword; Epic Weapon Spec: (Longsword)
P25
P26
R27 Great Charisma (19)
P28 +1 Charisma (20) Epic Prowess
R29

S 6 14 (20 final)
D 4 12
Co 2 10
I 6 14
W 4 14 (+2 from Aasimar)
Ch 8 17 (+2 from Aasimar) (20 final)

Basic Stats:
Standing AB is 48; Add +5 for 53 AB with +5 divine favors of which you will cast around 10, 5 of them are extended. Throw in War Drum or Shrieker's Belt and it is 55, cast prayer and you have 56 AB.

AC is around 65-66 with Divine Shield and Haste. That is with just +4 equipment like Triad Shield, any +4 plate and Ilmaterian +5 boots.

Notice I have dex pegged at 12. You will be wearing plate and you will NEVER have to take a dex potion. And it can never be dispelled. *smile* With some mythalled equipment like helm and rings you can easily max out your constitution and walk around with 450+ hps. With your high AC you won't need to add more constitution to the build. Keep it at 10.

All spells cast except for Bless Weapon and Deafening Clang will be extended. You can even extend those too if you must but it isn't necessary. They last a nice long time.

With Extra Turning you'll have around 20 turns. Divine Shield and Might as needed. I find with 52-53 base AC, 56-57 with haste you won't need Divine Shield as much. that AC is good to get you through most monster spawns.

With two levels rogue you get evasion and with a pali's higher saves it is quite effective.

You don't need more than 15 UMD with the high charisma so you'll have plenty of skill points to add to discipline and whatever floats your boat. Oh, as a pali of Ilmater I maxed out heal and with the Champion Salandran plate and +10 heal kits Jerand heals at 80 per bandage. He rarely needs to use expensive heal potions. Huge Bonus! I highly recommend having a high heal tally.

Please note that this is not Jerand's build. I modified this build for RP purposes and added ES Spot so he can be a highly effective dancer spotter. With the basic equipment out there his spot easily reaches 100+.

Note that this is NOT a good PvP build. If you are PvPing go with devver or Smiter. But for solo Boss Hunting, tanking with others and just general all around super strong build, it is tough to beat.

You can also take two away from Charisma on this build and throw it into Strength for a tiny bit more AB and damage so the ratio is 22/18 instead of the true half and half. 22/18 ratio is what I use, but the half and half pali in general is my favorite pali build.

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I'm BACK!

I'm only getting 45 AB on that build; what am I missing?

20 base
11 STR
5 weapon
5 epic
4 feats (WF, EWP, EWF)

That's 45, not 48. I don't play Pallies; is there some forever-long buff I'm missing?

Aid and Bless, though nothing else I'm aware of. He must be haxing.

Tucz: Take Concentration instead. Not only do you rely on your buffs to godmode, it's a solid pick for any battle, and something interrupting a spell has the tendency to drive one nuts.

And any knowledge on this:
Do shifters retain bonuses to saves from Dark Blessing/Divine Grace while polymorphed? Can they cast Divine Might/Shield shifted, akin to using character feats such as KD and Disarm?

Or is it so obvious you won't humiliate me by answering it?

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

And Prayer.

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Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand

Discord: Bhaalorian#5715

Here it is. It's a bit 'hmmm' but it's there! Had to go handaxes cause of weapon finesse. Nice thing is it can swap between handaxes and unarmed, too.

Monk(12), Fighter(8), Rogue(10), Dwarf

STR: 12
DEX: 18 (26)
CON: 10
WIS: 14
INT: 12
CHA: 6

01: Monk(1): Dodge, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}
02: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows}
03: Monk(3): Weapon Finesse
04: Monk(4): DEX+1, (DEX=19)
05: Monk(5)
06: Monk(6): Blind Fight, {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown}
07: Monk(7)
08: Monk(8): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
09: Monk(9): Toughness, {Improved Evasion}
10: Monk(10)
11: Monk(11)
12: Monk(12): DEX+1, Weapon Focus: Handaxe, (DEX=21)
13: Fighter(1): Ambidexterity
14: Fighter(2): Two-Weapon Fighting
15: Fighter(3): Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
16: Fighter(4): DEX+1, Weapon Specialization: Handaxe, (DEX=22)
17: Rogue(1)
18: Rogue(2): Improved Critical: Handaxe
19: Rogue(3): {Uncanny Dodge I}
20: Rogue(4): DEX+1, (DEX=23)
21: Fighter(5): Epic Weapon Focus: Handaxe
22: Rogue(5)
23: Rogue(6)
24: Rogue(7): DEX+1, Great Dexterity I, (DEX=25)
25: Rogue(8)
26: Rogue(9)
27: Rogue(10): Epic Dodge, Defensive Roll
28: Fighter(6): DEX+1, Epic Weapon Specialization: Handaxe, (DEX=26)
29: Fighter(7)
30: Fighter(8): Epic Fortitude, Armor Skin

43 AB with DEX buffs, EWF, and +5 gloves
54 AB with just +4 ammy/cloak, +5 armor/boots, Armor Skin, and DEX/WIS buffs

Not bad.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Why Monk12 over Monk6/Rogue19/Fighter5? It's silly. Monk10 tops for the WIS AC, Monk AC, speed and Improved evasion. And even then I'd rather go 10/15/5 or 9/16/5 for Crippling.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

Thank you all for the input. I think I have finalized everything. Brew potions still stands because I would hate myself later if I didn't take it.

I was thinking in terms of AB progression. I try to keep things in 4 level blocks when there is a 3/4 progression class in the mix. I was trying to cram at least 9 Monk pre-epic for IKD, but cutting it to 8 with Monk 9 at 21 changes things.

Tweaking never hurts, hah.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Even though AB is perhaps the most important statistic along with AC in NWN (well, saves et al.), compared to the numbers this one point could buy you, it just seems like a poor trade.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

Oh I tweaked it to Monk 9/Fighter 5/Rogue 16 with Monk 8/Fighter 4/Rogue 8 in pre-epic and it comes to the same base AB (21) with 4 APR still. So it's all good :>

I don't know if I will get a chance to play it ever, but it looks nasty. Damage will blow without sneaks, though, haha. Plus it can swap to throwing axes if needed.

Monk(9), Fighter(5), Rogue(16), Dwarf
STR: 10
DEX: 18 (26)
CON: 10
WIS: 14
INT: 14
CHA: 6

01: Monk(1): Dodge
03: Monk(3): Weapon Finesse
06: Monk(6): Blind Fight
09: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus: Handaxe, Ambidexterity
10: Fighter(2): Two-Weapon Fighting
12: Fighter(4): Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Specialization: Handaxe
13: Rogue(1)
15: Rogue(3): Improved Critical: Handaxe
18: Rogue(6): Great Fortitude
21: Monk(9): Epic Weapon Focus: Handaxe
23: Rogue(10): Defensive Roll
24: Rogue(11): Great Dexterity I
26: Rogue(13): Crippling Strike
27: Rogue(14): Armor Skin
29: Rogue(16): Epic Dodge
30: Fighter(5): Epic Weapon Specialization: Handaxe

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Certainly Armor Skin instead of Epic Fortitude.

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¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Huh... why is Armor Skin gone? It was supposed to be there, hah!

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Noct,

Yours stats:


20 base
11 STR
5 weapon
5 epic
4 feats (WF, EWP, EWF)

but base is actually 23 or 24 so when you add up all the others you are talking an AB of 48 or 49. Remember you get 1 AB for every two levels of fighter above 20th. So levels 21-26 are P and/or F and levels 27-29 you have one level pali and two rogue.

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I'm BACK!

@Naivatkal

You probably don't need that much Intelligence since you get IKD for free anyway.

Dodge is a waste feat since it's not required for Epic Dodge

Why wouldn't you take Kama's? They are finessable and follow uBAB for extra attacks.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

Because fuck the police.

And yeah, moar INT was for tasty skills.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

could I get feedback on my divine necromancer build?
*14 str/16 con/8 int/16 wis/12 dex/8 char
*pump wis
*skills# spellcraft & conc

domains# death(primarily for enervation, pet, & +undead damage) & magic(mage armor, stoneskin, (empowered) lesser spell mantle)

8 pre epic+4 epic+3 epic bonus feats#spell/gsf necro,spell/greater spell pene,silent spell,
toughness,empower,maximize,

epic spell pene,epic spell foc necro,auto quicken spell,
mummy dust,great wisdom,auto quicken 2,quicken spell

basic setup: heavy use of buffs & pets while spamming enervation (flavour)

#disclaimer; i know enervation can be blocked by spell resistance and has a save component, doing this primarily for flavour..

There's currently a glitch in the matrix where if you wield -any- weapon in your offhand, apart from a kama, you lose your monk goodies like ac, speed etc.

Monks are wise and canny; they never charge into battle. It's just that their catlike awareness and unearthly speed bonuses means their wary and methodical advance into combat doesn't take very long at all.

Uh...no.

20 Paladin pre-epic = 20 BAB
10 epic levels (+1 BAB / 2 epic levels, regardless of class) = 5 BAB
20 STR buffed to 32 = +11 AB
+5 enhancement on weapon = +5 AB
Weapon Focus (+1), Epic Weapon Prowess (+1) & Epic Weapon Focus (+2) = +4 AB

20 + 5 + 11 + 5 + 4 = 45 AB

could anyone critique my build...it's a few posts above

I'm trying to come up with a working emulation of a Daggerspell Mage. Here is what you need to know of Daggerspell Mages; http://dndtools.eu/classes/daggerspell-mage/

Now, problem is I've never made melee casters because I have no idea how. I was imagining something maybe along the lines of;

Wizard 25/Rogue 1/Fighter 4

Stats I got no idea about, I got no idea where to focus -.-

Feats; 13 Pre-epic, 6 Epic
Ambidex,
Two-Weapon Fighting,
Maximized Spell,
Extended Spell,
Weapon Focus,

Weapon Specialization,
Improved Critical
Spell Focus
Greater Spell Focus
Combat Casting

Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
(Or Finesse somewhere if going Dex)
--
Epic Feats;

Epic Spell Mage Armor
Epic Mummy Dust
Epic Weapon Focus
Epic Spell Focus
Greater Combat Casting
Greater Ruin(?)

Help me out here, you spellblade-builders.

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In-Game: guano

The layout is very hard to make sense of. What is the level spread? Where is your Extend spell? Why is CON 16 and INT 8 and DEX 12? DEX can stay at 10 tops if you wear heavy-plate, because you can always chug down a Cat's Grace potion. INT8 entails a hard time getting all the important skills to stop you from being instagibbed, such as Discipline and Tumble. The latter is OK taken cross-class.

But I suppose that otherwise you're good to go. Rather hard to fail a caster build with the useful metamagic covered.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

STR:
DEX: 16 to start
CON:
INT: 20 base for epic spells (15 to start)
WIS:
CHA:

01- Wizard: Ambidexterity
02- Fighter (bonus): Weapon Focus
03- Fighter (bonus): Weapon Finesse, Blind Fight
04- Wizard [INT+1=16]
05- Wizard
06- Wizard: Two-weapon Fighting
07- Wizard (bonus): Extend Spell
08- Wizard [INT+1=17]
09- Wizard: Maximize Spell
10- Wizard
11- Wizard
12- Wizard [INT+1=18] (bonus): Metamagic/Crafting/Spell Focus, --Free Feat (Knockdown?)--
13- Wizard
14- Wizard
15- Wizard: Improved Critical
16- Wizard [INT+1=19]
17- Wizard (bonus): Metamagic/Crafting/(Greater)Spell Focus
18- Wizard: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
19- Wizard
20- Wizard [INT+1=20]

21- Wizard: Epic Weapon Focus
22- Wizard (bonus): Metamagic/Crafting/(Epic)Spell Focus
23- Rogue (tumble ranks for survivability)
24- Wizard: [DEX+1=17] Epic Mummy Dust
25- Wizard
26- Wizard
27- Fighter: Armor Skin
28- Wizard [DEX+1=18] (bonus): Epic Mage Armor
29- Rogue (30 tumble)
30- Fighter (bonus): Weapon Specialization, Epic Weapon Specialization

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Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

That's ... a bummer

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

DC a kama that looks more axe-ish?

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fairdady..

I was of the assumption that if im taking 30 levels of cleric I could forego extend so I could cover my bases with feats...I choose con as a primary stat bc im going full caster...and from my understanding as well as that of other experts on arelith..con based casters are usually more successful... I decided to go without disc as I know my str will never be high enough against KD spam from the melee types who go all in...

...decided to change the domain to trickery for concealment bonus..in an effort to combat some of that KD spam....the 3 ac loss from cc tuble is negligible...besides im not even getting the protection from AoO's with heavy plate and tower shield...

thoughts? suggestions?

domains: death & trickery-level drain (flavor)

As a pure cleric, you're going to want to rely more on spell casting than combat ability, so I would suggest throwing in fighter and/or rogue levels if you're wanting to go down that path.

Also, no Deity on Amia has both death and trickery as their domains. And as someone who has the death domain on their main character, I suggest you grab Mummy Dust as well. The Death Domain is nice, but it's only 2 attacks per round.

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Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand

Discord: Bhaalorian#5715

Rogue/SD build. Should I be concerned about the lack of discipline? I'm not sure if Godly AC and Epic Dodge will cover me against KD spam and Disarm since he will wield a small weapon.

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Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder

It'll do. You won't be able to get enough disc without epic gloves and the +10 disc helm anyway, due to low strength.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

Deathlessgrasp: the INT8 is really baffling given the 14STR since it requires you to roleplay a very difficult combination of being so attuned to divine things that you can unleash oogly undeadish fury, but so stupid you can barely string a sentence together. 12STR and 10INT makes more sense, given you're going to be a pure caster dude and therefore don't even have that much need to carry heavy armour.

I've played couple of (with respect to play style) semi-pure caster Clerics - semi-pure because they took Zen Archery to give me something to do after I'd cast into each mob. That only ever put 30/round or something pitiful downrange, so I could have skipped it.

Even so, they both did/will take a cheesebag Rogue or Bard level to get full Discipline/Tumble. Plan A never involved them using it and since they only smelled the Stilton at level 30 they couldn't use it, but that's no reason not to have a Plan B fall into place at close of XP.