AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Comment on Bro-Rex

Before I say anything, I'll say please be polite if you too decide to comment on this.

I know the event has been praised by some in the DM praise thread, and while I thought about posting my comment there, since I have some other feedback, I thought it best to keep it separate. I will however start with what I liked about the event:

The quick and customized items were quite hilarious, I thought. Particularly Theadric's ass cheek. The ability to make such things on the fly is an amazing tool and I'm sure will continue to have great benefits in the future.

What boggles my mind is how the "Bro-rex" appeared in the first place, and how it's blood turned those that drank it into a giant t-rex as well. Obviously that's an IC question, but I can't fathom OOCly how it's possible and it rather broke continuity for me. This is my personal opinion, of course - I don't know everything about D&D or what I might be missing.

I mention this though because, while I stayed, I know of others who decided to log out because of this. There are others who I've spoken to since then as well who felt that the style of the event didn't match well with Amia.

Mostly, I believe the biggest issue is it didn't seem like a real IC event. This is one reason why the sight of the giant T-Rexes didn't cause more alarm. I worry that the idea of "another day in Amia" is forcing characters ICly and even players OOCly to become apathetic to events, which can become depressing and discouraging when it comes to playing in the server.

We all like a little silliness from time to time, but there are many of us who believe that it can go too far. It'd be nice to see more honest events that are able to touch our emotions or curiosity like the Gorrin event. I won't say stop doing abrupt silly events, but I would caution on the scope of them. Many if not most of us I believe would still like to feel like we're playing our characters rather than playing a game.

Thanks for listening/reading.

--LK

People ask for unserious, odd events. So I deliver when I can fully aware it will not appeal to everyone.

For those it effected badly, sorry. I know I can not make everyone's time perfectly enjoyable. If you would more ways to make it IC entirely I can make explanations. But yes, it was a goofy event following the same theme as others I have done when I seen a ton of people in Bendir, bored or not doing much.

It started as a test to see if anyone would care that a T-Rex just walked down the road and how you all would react.

I was sad so many people did not seem to care at all. But at least I was happy people killed it when they did react. Which is what I hopped for. The rest was to keep stuff going and to give some entertainment.

Best I can say for IC is portals and magic. There really is nothing more take on it unless of course the PCs would like to investigate who is behind portalling dinosaurs into town.

Sorry for those that entirely despise this sort of display. If you like only more serious events, I will remember and be certain to run some for you as well.

I will say again, kudos on this:

XD

The fun part was after the initial turning a PC into a mini t-rex, I had nothing to do with the rest. It was all players having a decent time. So for as great as the ass eating was. I can not take credit

I just made the items to keep stuff going.

Yeah unfortunately not every event is everyone's cup of tea and there are mixed opinions even within the Team about the lines we draw on immersion and seriousness. With how negative or stressful things can get I appreciate a little good clean fun. I've seen so many silly things come out of PCs trying to be serious.

There is likely a very large disparity of opinion on this topic as well as any other that pertains to personal taste.

Sometimes, the comedy is when the PCs think they're seriously following a lead where in reality they've gone completely off the rails.

I was personally behind this event all the way. A lot of the pressure and perpetual seriousness of Amia's atmosphere needs a release valve here and there. I'm not saying that everyone plays serious and moody chatacters, but I could see how being on your "I'm a big serious badass who doesn't believe in laughing" character while an event like this is going on can cause some people to just not acknowledge the entire ordeal. Its perfectly fine and in their right, of course. I just had the advantage of being on a character who likes to screw around and thus it was perfectly logical for her to chase around a dinosaur while everyone else ignored it.

Evander still provided a lot of the fun, either way! As did many other toons who's personalities aren't naturally on the brooding side. Sorry for all of you that didn't appreciate it. But I love events of all kinds, serious or not. A healthy mixture of both is always welcomed in my book.

It is also difficult to try and appeal to the audience that usually is left behind or over shadowed by folks that do always file into play.

That leaves many people logging out because they see they're ignored or have no chance to get the DMs attention or make a difference than being a background body.

That does cause people to leave and quit on events as well. And it happens a lot. So yes, do events like this appeal to specific types? Yes. Was there a simple plot to this that can be solved in a day or so? Yes there was. Could it have started less abruptly, yes I could have done so much a better, sorry for that.

Mostly the flow I wanted was Random thing goes through congested road, thing is killed, thing is apparently magic and ingesting it transfers magic to you. Magic wears off after some fun, so you go to find more.

Group located source and more serious stuff takes place and is solved by the time they leave the dungeon. Simple and not very serious but brought a different group than the ones who would respond to a shout about a murder across the island.

This method certainly does not contribute at all to a main server plot. And never was intended to.
Plus really goofy events are more approachable by those that don't know lore or much about the server. It can be intimidating for people who don't know these things to get involved. And once people do get into the idea and feel of events, they certainly may enjoy or take active roles in more serious server wide events.

Sounds like this was one of those events that are really fun to take part in and the ones that have been similar to such for me have always been a wonderful breath of fresh air. They are wonderful breaks from the 'Sue Serious Batman' rp that's seemingly expected. Sure fun random craziness is great but shouldn't come or interrupt an important plot point in a serious event.

In my view such events should be kept some what separate as to not inter up the flow. In my past experience with a some what silly rp it grew from a character's initiative to help out a small animal that appeared where it shouldn't have been. there was an objective and unlikely characters seemed to want to join the original cause and task- I believe this was done out of OOC means but hey events are fun so I wont really blame any one for that. The plot developed a bit more and some surprises were met with along the way. I personally loved this event because it brought more fun from the mundane in a setting where my character along with the few others that accompanied weren't fitting in well with the rp that was going on or were just being stagnant. It brought meaning and fun to the rp environment for a few players who seemed interested. And at the end I was pleasantly surprised by the rewards though I do believe the dm's initial intent was to have the most unlikely characters fight to the death over them.

From my pov I didn't feel right taking part in such rewards and felt a little uncomfortable or undeserving of them on an ooc lvl. sure there was only three other players and the dm but eh. It also matched the characters perspective to not want to partake in was was rewards due to circumstance but I ended up getting a small token from the event that later my character icly gave to another character out of love and helped flourish in to an amazing development between relation of the two characters because of the meaning behind such a simple item meant.

For me it was an amazing thing but I feel these work best in rare chances and on smaller scales. Sure they can be silly but it adds a sense of dynamism to the world none the less. I actually really like these kinds of events and think they help out a lot.

so that said from what I've read about the event...

10/10 wish I could have been there. The humor sounds pretty... dare I say ? Cheeky as well.

I admit I was one that kind of ignored it. But that was because this massive dinosaur of unbelievable proportions just waltzed down the road like nothing was up. There were no emotes. There was no description as it wandered by. Not even a "RAWR!" So honestly I thought it was a player being silly and just passing through. I did not expect it to be a DM and didn't realize it until I saw it go hostile after it came back. I'm fine with silly and fun, but I just thought "Oh, that person got a freaking huge summon reskin somehow. All right." Because it was gone as fast as it had arrived and I had seen no text.

I also missed the part where Dicey was turned into the T-Rex because he ingested its blood. I was too far away for that and I assumed "Oh, Dicey's a shifter, too, and already had that form. Cool." As a PC that's seen plenty of Shifter shenanigans and craziness around the Dale, aloof (and, yes, serious) Kyra paid it little attention.

I did log out because it was so over-the-top as a result of that. I had felt the lack of any narration previously only showed a lack of care or concern for actual RP. And since I was there to RP, it was kind of off-putting!

I'm really glad others had fun because of it, though. It just was not for me!

Just part of my ongoing survey shenanigans: why wouldn't your PC react if it was odd to them, even though you thought it might be a player OOC? I've been working on blurring lines of immediately identifiable DM events and this is applicable.

Because I had looked away to grab a drink after getting off the cart and only saw it long enough to type a *looks up* and an ellipsis before it was gone.

Others chased after it and Kyra knew some of them well enough that she didn't feel her presence was necessary. And when someone came back and said "It disappeared into thin air" it only made her more complacent toward it because "Meh. Casters and/or Shifters being goofy."

Caron was one who walked away, too, because the hins seemed very silly about it and were climbing all over Dicey- Caron was not there for the original walk-by! So, for him, Dicey-the-rex seemed gargantuan and scary, but not something he had to deal with. He may have walked away, anyways, though, and everyone can blame slkNihilus for that. Evil DM scarred Caron very recently with a terrifying large monster and the pale bard is only going to face a new one if he feels noone else capable is around.

...Or if he thinks he can get something out of it? WAIT NO CARON WAIT!

Haha, thanks. These things are very useful when they remain positive and constructive.

Apologies for the lack of more narration or for those that did miss all of it. Making all the random items on the fly did also take me away from the immediate scene to leave things more for the PCs to directly react to WYSIWYG and me picking up from there with some memorabilia and loot. I'll work on my balancing of narration and dynamically making items as I work back into the DM Client.

To explain better, to rename any item. I need to have it on the ground and type a command. To do that, I can not have it dropped into the middle of the event area or near PCs since well... *yoink*

Practice is always good, and so is feedback! The dynamic renaming thing is cool and I'm glad you were able to play with it!

I wasn't bothered by your presentation at all, Maht. I was only letting you know why Caron was one who walked away!

.. That said, I do usually prefer the more serious events, unless we're in a tavern and/or there's a party. I think that's been clear over the years, though.

I'd like to stress to, I have not abandoned serious events. I certainly will be around more soon for events like early Caraigh, early Monolith, and shady business.

I have one giant telltale sign my event will follow the formula of less serious progression... It has Bro in it <.<

Mostly that formula is random typically unseen stuff, my horrible comedic ability, and loose plot that is intended to be solved in the single event. Just intended as a way to ease any event or DM anxiety anyone may have, so folks can enjoy events and DCs and grow more comfortable with being in events and hopefully make friends once they see they may have similar senses of humor.

If that's totally not your cup of tea, I'll do what I can to keep it away from you, or move the event away from you. Since as said, they are less serious and can move without issue. Just send me a message or something.

Estara wrote:

.. That said, I do usually prefer the more serious events, unless we're in a tavern and/or there's a party. I think that's been clear over the years, though.

But I bring the party everywhere? <.<

Take no offense guys but I am of opinion that if you are looking for RP around Bendir Dale, you cannot really complain when something like this happens.

I will happily say that yesterday was one of the funniest days I've had on Amia. Sure not everyone would like to say the same. I'm actually dissapointed with how many people just ignored it or shrugged. Glad some of you walked away though instead of just complaining.

You won't have fun if you don't get involved, that whole event had me laughing hysterically, start to finish, and some after. Still think the Theas ass cheek prop was one of the best things on Amia ever.

Dead wrote:

Take no offense guys but I am of opinion that if you are looking for RP around Bendir Dale, you cannot really complain when something like this happens.

This thread isn't about complaining, silly. It's a discourse on taste! Which is perfectly reasonable and good for the brain. I think it's been entirely constructive, really.

I admit that after Dicey turned into a T-Rex and everyone started climbing him I walked away too. That was mostly cause I wasn't in the mood to engage further, mostly me being tired after work. Which is by no means a critique of the event! I am glad that stuff that isn't too serious is still going on... brings me back to the days of cluckzilla. The only thing I think could of improved a bit was more narrative initially.

I was not there for this event, but for all events my stance is I have no problem if they are joke-ish as long as they are still IC, and not say like a OOC event that DMs want you to more or less never speak of again. ((the expiation being April fools day))

Kind of like how "back in the day amia" where gods, and avatars of gods were just dicking around, chatting in the middle of towns, fist fighting chickens and otherwise crazy stuff that DMs would no longer really accept as canon today, even if it did in fact.

Jes wrote:

Dead wrote:

Take no offense guys but I am of opinion that if you are looking for RP around Bendir Dale, you cannot really complain when something like this happens.

This thread isn't about complaining, silly. It's a discourse on taste! Which is perfectly reasonable and good for the brain. I think it's been entirely constructive, really.

The dead can't taste, Jes. Most of them anyway.

Dead wrote:

Take no offense guys but I am of opinion that if you are looking for RP around Bendir Dale, you cannot really complain when something like this happens.

That is more than dismissive of the other RP that happens there, Dead.

As far as Bro-Rexes, Bro-Dogs, or similar things are concerned, my opinion has evolved to this: it's not my thing. I do not care for it. Unless I'm drunk and possibly on one of my old alts whose story I can't even fully remember, I probably wouldn't be involved. That being said, I don't mind them being around. I don't mind it happening. And obviously if they are what keeps some players around or interested, or helps them "let off steam" every once in a while, I damn well want that to continue to be an option for them.

Just as long as it's not a complete 180 from whatever else is going on, or the silliness is forced upon my PC. And that's weird for me to say, because I'm usually all for IC being IC, not denying the RP one is presented with. But it really does, for me, take me too out of my characters. I use for instance something that happened a year or so ago. My PC had finished a long IC discussion with another PC about making battle arrangements for the upcoming Brog war. He was headed to Kohlingen to report the fruits of the discussion to another PC. On the way, Cluckzilla jumped out from nowhere and killed him, followed by the Fowl Lord being chased around over his dead body by a couple of epic paladins and clerics. After I was rezzed, I think I just logged out. I couldn't get in the mood to continue the tone of what I was doing. Here my character was discussing how bring down a Xixecal, the possibility of people starving to death, and he gets mugged by a poultry god along the way for a joke. There really was no way I could find to reconcile the dissonance created by that.

So my suggestion would be this. If these events are done, perhaps bring them about more gradually and if possible, out of the main thoroughfare of things. Gradual, so people can bail out as they see it heading to wherever it's going, out of the way so people aren't hopping off the carts and immediately having to deal with sword-fighting triceratops or other things that are clearly happening for no other reason than to be over the top. And even then, for the DMs, try not to do anything you wouldn't want to see come back to you in a request. If IC is IC, what happens there is fair game. If you introduce serum that turn people into megazords, that stuff happens in the same world everything else you run does. A request for Pink Power Ranger potions is then as legitimate as any other "serious" thing someone could request.

The NPC name makes my skin crawl for many reasons, but otherwise it seems like one of those tongue in cheek events that if they happen once in a while its cute funny and quarky but if it happened all the time would be annoying. Which is to say... sounds fine to me.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Dead wrote:

Take no offense guys but I am of opinion that if you are looking for RP around Bendir Dale, you cannot really complain when something like this happens.

That is more than dismissive of the other RP that happens there, Dead.

Like I said, no offense. Just an experience-based opinion of mine.

Mercedes wrote:

Jes wrote:

This thread isn't about complaining, silly. It's a discourse on taste! Which is perfectly reasonable and good for the brain. I think it's been entirely constructive, really.

The dead can't taste, Jes. Most of them anyway.

De gustibus non est disputandum. :wink:

But since we are at it.. I could say that silly, unlikely-to-happen events would most likely leave a bad taste in my mouth. Essentially if something like this happened to my character, he would start researching it, and if the canon lore is taken into consideration, sooner or later we would run into an inconsistency. And I will not make a slippery slope argument now, but I fear that it could potentially have far fetching consequences. If you throw an event, you should have an explanation for it. If it's magic, know how does it actually work. I am not saying Puff doesn't know how it works mind, but I know of some events that created lore inconsistencies when it came to magic, and the word of it reached my toon. I do not mind homebrewing, I do not mind anomalies in magic, but if something like that is happening.. it would be good to have a believable explanation ready.

This thread is just silly. I'm not really a fan of this elitist drama; and if you value your immersion so much you shouldn't be going to the dale. They just mostly mess around there mostly because they're having their fun their way.

(Edited for wording)

I feel a little bit like bob, though not as strongly. I do think he hints at something I have always felt, but never actually say because it would rarely be taken kindly.

In my estimation, I see "immersion" becoming a little too sacred. There is a lot of blame on others for ruining immersion. I would challenge others to consider a different argument: is your ability to immerse yourself so weak that a character using modern language, typing with improper grammar, or the appearance of a silly event enough to ruin it?

That isn't directed to anyone in particular. And it is worded a little "strong" for my actual sentiment. But if others have stuck to the immersion argument and not considered that response, it may be worthwhile and cause you and others less heartache.

Side note, probably one of the times I snotted myself the most with laughter while in the DM Client was the one time I assisted in a major Bro-Dog event. It was ludicrous.

It is entirely acceptable that some people don't enjoy ludicrous RP. I may have logged shortly after, but that was just because of the mood and my mood. It wasn't because I thought anyone wasn't RP'ing right or RP'ing the right thing. Just like some people don't take well to romantic RP or conflict RP. Goofy, crazy, off-the-wall inanity is just another style of RP.

Which is because you don't like it. And you may not like it because it isn't immersive. All permissive. I just see it continuing to be parroted and that challenging thought passes through my head, to ask, "What if it's you? What if it's just you?"

That probably has a lot to do with the fact that I always ask that question of myself first whenever something bothers me. I wonder if it is just me. This explains a lot about my tolerance and threshold for horrible things. When younger, if something bothered me on a moral or spiritual level, I just blamed myself for being too picky and tried to condition myself not to be bothered by it!

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that, Yossi! It's another style of RP because I don't like it? I've engaged in plenty of off-the-wall RP before (I played a copper kin, after all!). The inanity is not what I didn't like - I detailed what I didn't like as much about it, which led to positive understanding, I thought. I logged because I wasn't in the mood for that kind of silly RP - and I waited until the event had moved on to do so. It's not like I went "Screw all y'all!" and logged off in the middle of the event.

And even in such situations, it's okay if "it's just you." That's the point of having a personal opinion. I didn't get the feeling anyone was telling anyone that what happened shouldn't have happened. There were some comments about narration and the mechanics of how the dinosaur appeared, but I think it's been positive all-around. I think critiques about events like this could be done more, in fact. It could help DMs grow and acclimate and understand the players.

And, in general, saying (or supporting the idea that) someone is being elitist because they offered a critique about not liking something specific after also saying what they liked about the event is...kind of hypocritical. Leathan's original post did not say that everyone else's RP was terrible and that it shouldn't have happened. It was just a statement of opinion of taste - which is something everyone is entitled to do.

In my opinion, silly RP as a whole does not break immersion. I go to the Dale because I like seeing the hin run around and the character I was playing at the time has history there. Silly inanity is as much IC as anything as any other style of RP.

Edit: Unfinished sentence and I can't remember what I was saying there! >.>

I was agreeing with you and saying your motivation was fine, silly.

As someone who does enjoy all kinds of RP, I have to admit that the bro-rex mini-event even had me raising questions as stated in the OP. Nevertheless if people had fun then good!

To be honest, it felt like a DM slapped an event because there were more people in one location than usual, and the Dale seemed fitting for such an event because of it's reputation. To me, the event really didn't feel aimed towards the Dale/People-that-hang-around-the-Dale playerbase. Those who took part were actually mostly others who very rarely visit the Dale. Hence I do think it's important for DMs to be careful in whats being planned. Not just using a generalization of one location but the actual playerbase of an location itself (Which changes from time to time).

Mahtan Tasdur wrote:

Best I can say for IC is portals and magic. There really is nothing more take on it unless of course the PCs would like to investigate who is behind portalling dinosaurs into town.

Sorry for those that entirely despise this sort of display. If you like only more serious events, I will remember and be certain to run some for you as well.

Mercedes wrote:

Yeah unfortunately not every event is everyone's cup of tea and there are mixed opinions even within the Team about the lines we draw on immersion and seriousness. With how negative or stressful things can get I appreciate a little good clean fun. I've seen so many silly things come out of PCs trying to be serious.

There is likely a very large disparity of opinion on this topic as well as any other that pertains to personal taste.

A lot of more "silly" events are fun but but put off many as, they often lack as much in terms of development to them or put the silly, fun aspects of running the event itself over over making sure it all makes sense. Even on fun primarily silly events there should at least be a few story hooks (and the event itself should make sense story wise) or else they become oddly isolated events which while fun, also don't do much beyond themselves.*

It is good to run different types of events for different tastes, although regardless of the event type I believe it should have at least a few plot hooks that can be grabbed onto even after the event to develop things further and a solid lore base so that you aren't trying to fit lore to make things work after the fact which is when you so often get serious issues with then trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with the story.

*Events like contests and the like that really don't lead anywhere else are great too, but in those cases the story aspect should still show why that is the case. Things should still always tie into the world, even if they are fun, silly or insane things.

I often have events that go nowhere because that's where players take them. My largest event to date wasn't scheduled to go anywhere, but players made their own hooks and I ran with them.

It's dangerous to group "events" into such narrow categories. Things are as they are, and PCs should run across just as many things in the realms which hold no deeper meaning than face value as they do opportunities to play magical batman. Would some players not be satisfied investigating an empty cave? Perhaps, but it's the living nature of the world which has gone the wayside for events players expect a plot to develop out of. That's not a realistic world to me, so I cater my style elsewhere. That said: I'll let folks do a lot of things IG and see where it goes if it makes sense.

Not all events that occur SHOULD evolve into something bigger, and many events WILL expand in ways unplanned this is true.

However regardless of if there is sense or meaning to the player there should be sense and meaning behind something's usage and inclusion. Some things are mysterious, some mundane and some seemingly having no purpose at all, but if you put something up for players to interact or deal with then it should already at that point have a reason why it exists and is there. Players can and will still take it in new and odd directions but the 'who, what , when, where, why and how' of how it came to be are just as important to many players and characters as where it leads.

I would like to note that Mahtan has expressed there was a who/what/why, simply that the event didn't have a greater, over-arching purpose than to be immediately solved if PCs in question were willing to do so.

The only real time I take issue is when people tell each other how to role play, and how to enjoy themselves. I may have come off a bit strongly in my post above, but that is more or less what I mean. And Mahtan is the DM there for people who want to just sit back and enjoy themselves sometimes. And man is it fun.

It helps to remember that at the end of the day we're playing a video game.

It's hit and miss for me. But when it's not my cup of tea, I don't fuss! I just skedaddle. I'm not going to hate on the DM for doing it, and the players than enjoy it. I'm stoked to have people topside period. I can still appreciate the effort even when I don't partake. Keep on doing your thing, Maht.

I think what you were saying was powerful, bob, even if a little strong. You and Yossi are touching on the same thing I keep coming back to... That underlying sense of discord, of coming down upon RP and realism and yet not fully clarifying why or how or when it is done. What makes a Bro-Rex appropriate and not a sassy CatLady PC? Can only the DMs provide silly powerful moments or do we allow players the same prerogative of messy and ridiculous things? I think it takes a lot of courage for Leathan to speak up, a lot of humility and maturity for Maht to be willing to listen and a lot of awareness for the playerbase to begin to delve into this idea of reflecting upon events and what is enjoyed and what is not...

I agree with JES: I would love for this to happen more.

And I agree with Yossi: I would love for everyone to think about whether it is everyone else, or whether it is our selves... Or wonder, even, if it is both?

Personally, I'm not sure how a t-rex walking in Bendir Dale is any different to, say, an adamantine golem strolling through simply because it was a DM behind the rex.

I have also seen some confusion on the differences between PCS and NPCS, so I'd like to weigh here very briefly. NPCs can and do have backstories, complex goals, motivations, and character development. They differ from PCs in that they don't fulfill the same roll and cannot function the way a PC does. You typically do not go adventuring with an npc, the npc does not go looting, or shopping-- they don't join factions and grow in them and come to affect things in the world the way a PC is expected to. NPCs are set pieces, plot devices, triggers, or plots themselves. When a DM controls a Devil it is not the same as a Devil PC and the distinction to me is pretty clear.

DMs control some pretty crazy stuff but, despite how popular or involved some npcs have become in the past, your characters are the ones who are expected to be the stars of the show. Lord of Wherever that only shows up when the events need him doesn't get to do a the cool things everyone else does because he has a land to run. Archmage Bloodsmite, despite his wide reach and extreme power, is ultimately destined to fail or at some point move on.

PCS are ultimately the inheritors of the land, it's bounties, and it's problems. That T Rex would never, ever pass a character request sue to how absurd it is, but it was also destined to fail and fade into memory or obscurity. I think due to time and exposure some people may have lost touch with just how special being an Adventurer really is. They've destroyed cities, ascended to godhood, and stopped an equal number of other adventurers from doing the same.

Your characters are the heroes and the villains who control the island, in a way. Amon and all the glorious goods and evils to follow are interlopers on your legacy.

Just want to add I am impressed and happy this topic has grown to discussing immersion, RP styles, acceptance of differences, and has been done so very constructively.

So.. my 2 cents..

I thought the bro-rex thing was a lot of fun. I didn't get to stay for the whole thing because it happened right as I had to head off, but it was a breath of fresh air to me. I like serious plots as much as the next guy, but I think those should be balanced with wild and crazy plots. I think we should avoid taking ourselves too seriously. Amia is a crazy place full of extremely powerful characters carrying around artifact level items in bags of holding. It shouldn't be too surprising when strange, unexplainable things happen.

Richard_Edmund wrote:

Personally, I'm not sure how a t-rex walking in Bendir Dale is any different to, say, an adamantine golem strolling through simply because it was a DM behind the rex.

I think this is one of the most important things said. Just because a DM was doing it changes everything.
Like a DM can move NPCs, everyone's attitude and awareness changes. DMs can leave a box, sealed with golden nails, and that box will be studied by four lvl 30, 40 INT Wizards, the golden nails will be tracked down to who made them, when the box is opened and inside is nothing, it will have invoked castings of detect magic and true seeing and possibly Legend Lore. All for an empty box the DMs placed. When yes, the reality was, it was an empty box.

It was not empty. There was a shiny Dream Coin inside.

Ugh, Mercedes, I am really digging your postings lately. Depth and earnestness- something I found to be missing from the head of the server for awhile, due to burnout and confusion and disagreements. Thank you for speaking to topics that have tender lines and heated discussion, all while calm and slightly removed, but remembering your connection to the PC world this far.

That being said, I want to ask you for some clarification... NPCs are the props, you say. The reactions and the temporary presences. They do not last or linger, but support the PCs to do so. And yet, what would be the NPC that wasn't this? The NPC that moved and breathed as a PC does, that interacted and grew and developed relationships and tried to be what PCs are. As much a hero, or with the potential to be so, as any. Was Duke Montgomery not an adventurer once? Would that not be an interesting way to test the boundaries of NPC/DM/PC/Player? An inside scoop, and one where a DM or two could see and feel both sides of a story. This is not PnP, although it remembers it. This is not God and Person, although the roles emulate it.

I don't ask these questions because I consider myself more knowledgeable or better, or because I think anything will work better or not- I ask both out of ignorance and curiosity. I was never a typical gamer, I have never been a typical player and I do not see these roles the way that so many do- who have grown up with it, grown into loving its specific style. I breathe my characters as both PC and possible NPC. I feel them, I want for them, but for Alanna and Dru and Cordor, my character is a plot device as much as Mover and his lackeys. I have always been willing to sacrifice my PCs for a cause although the only DM to graze close to that end was Yossarin. I wonder if Nihilus was nervous to bring an end to Sam, or if Amon truly grew to care for her. I wonder if people crack down on realism to create, but are nervous of the realism in endings- as evidenced by the widening of possibilities for Faithless and Letum's Alternate Endings never coming to fruition.

I don't know if that even makes sense! But I wonder.

That's got to be one of the very best things about being topside. I mean, the sheer ability to giggle to yourself while people go all out to study an empty box is just mind boggling. That's why I have never, and will never, be a DM. Everyone assumes that each and every time a DM takes over something, it must mean it has some kind of world-changing meaning.

But it's just a box. An empty box. Because that's the way the world works. Sometimes, you're going to find Mystra's golden dildo in that box. And sometimes, you're going to find absolutely nothing. Just because.

It doesn't break immersion for me for a DM to do anything, really. Blow up Cordor, or walk a T-rex through the Dale. Sometimes, however, it's good to be reminded that a T-Rex walking through the Dale isn't a foreshadowing of the coming of Kelemvor to the Prime for the final judgment on all our souls. Sometimes, it's just a friggin T-rex who wants some hin booty. And that's okay.

The world isn't always dark, dreary, and serious. Therefore, it can't be portrayed like it is. If anything, I think this sort of thing enhances my immersion, simply because it shows the balance that one would find in this setting.

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