AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Hey guys and gals. I’ve played on this server for a long time. I want to take the opportunity to clear up some current misconceptions. I don’t know if they are misconceptions of others, or myself, but I don’t want them to fester and create a toxic environment in a place we all come to have fun and relax. As such I’m going to be giving a bit of an unprecedented look into my PCs and their current motivations/associations.

People are welcome to post here if they want. However, I ask that we keep this constructive; a place of healing and not tearing each other down. You are also welcome to PM me if you have specific concerns or questions.

In all of my time here I have gone out of my way to make sure I don’t involve multiple characters of mine in the same plot; whether that is a PC driven plot, or a DM one. I have gone so far as to show up on a scene where Maral was pulled into a DM plot, saw what was going on, and had to make an excuse for her to leave - even though ICly she wouldn’t have left – because Iim’mur’ss was already rather central to that same plot.

While I have a vault full of PCs, I don’t play more than two or three of them at a time. Iim’mur’ss has been my ‘main’ for three years; until the last three months when I got bored; she had no RP, and Shiloh emerged on the scene. Anything else I pull out, Aaralyn, Oleander, etc. are on request or because I’m bored. Attentive people might notice I haven’t logged Oleander on in months, because of Shiloh’s involvement with the plots around Nes’ek & the mulhorandi.

I will say that over the last two years I have become more and more jaded on Amia. I tend to jump to the idea of the negative quicker than looking at the whole picture. I say that to demonstrate, I know how easy it is to do.

One of the misconceptions I want to address involves OOC hostilities. I think there is one person currently playing that I have an OOC issue with. That’s it. Even at that, I can say with complete honesty that my PCs do not react based on my personal feelings. I have PCs that are both friends and enemies with the PCs of said player, and have interacted with both.

I want to say; without reservation, I have no OOC issue with the current hostilities that are going on! PCs grating each other and causing friction is what makes a story.

I understand that if a person has multiple alts that seem to be hostile to your PC, it is easy to think it’s because the player doesn’t like you. I would encourage anyone in that situation to look at the whole picture. Look at how your PC has interacted with those alts and why each individual might have a reason to dislike you.

Because I have been forced to break my own rule in the last two weeks, I am going to specifically address Iim’mur’ss and Shiloh.

I began to log back on with Iim’mur’ss about three(?) weeks ago, in response to an influx of new SD characters looking for her, and some PCs that had been on hiatus returning. Even with that, Shiloh was more my focus because he was /very/ involved with the Gray Watch, the Khem Cathedral, Rebuilding of Nes’ek, and several DM plots.

Iim’mur’ss’s has multiple friends that broke their ties to Shar. Those friends were sought out by other PCs to help a certain shady bard. As such, Iim was pulled into some minor contact with the bard, and his friends. A few days later a friend of the bard’s came to Iim directly to ask some questions about how the bard was being helped, among other things.

The incident in the Triumvir was a catastrophe of timing. I logged on, and went to the Triumvir. I stepped out of the portal lamp behind three fully warded and battle ready elves. Iim had no idea what was going on. /I/ had no idea what was going on. Once Iim realized that Caron was the target… well Caron is currently being helped by her friends to throw off Shar; still, she didn’t physically get involved. She did something no one present but a DM would be able to trace. Her sole reason was because she knew Selgoron and what a bastard he is. They were about to leave with Caron’s body, and she thought the least she could do was track the body.

Then two of the elves returned and killed her for no reason… Do I really have to point out why she would be involved after that point?

Shiloh had no idea any of this was going on. Shiloh got a sending from two different PCs – from a completely different circle of players-faction, telling him Dru was dead and to come to the Salandran temple. Then, he got a note from the leader of the Gray Watch faction telling him that Dru was in a coma.

So now, let’s look over each PCs motivations. Iim’mur’ss was not part of the attack that was committed against the Shrine of Eilistraee – but her mate was. Add that incident with her being attacked & killed in the Triumvir. While Iim has worked very hard over the last couple of years to be accepted by people and do the right thing, anyone that thinks she doesn’t have an IC reason to now be very pissed off and vengeful is delusional.

Shiloh is a very active member of the Gray Watch. Anything the Gray Watch is involved with, especially ‘officially’ Shiloh is going to be a part of. That is something I simply can not separate and be true to the PC. Added to that, Drusus is Shiloh’s best friend, and Shiloh has from the beginning been trying to help Dru ‘save’ said shady bard. That won’t stop.

So going forward, all I can ask is that you realize; everything Iim has done, including the charges she filed, are only things she witnessed personally. They do not involve anything Shiloh was involved in, nor anything she was told by another player or PC.

The same goes for Shiloh.

Cheers,
~ Ana

Were you like, being accused of something?

I would imagine that Anatida was feeling some kind of pressure from OOC misunderstandings and concerns. And I thought that this post was cool, and thorough. And nothing compelled you to do it except that you want to help other players understand, which says a lot I think.

I also know (despite my inactivity in-game in this situation!) that lim'mur'ss is a complicated character-- and any hostility she may be expressing toward the Elves is a 180 turn from certain things that were being done in the shadows to help the Elves, too. So I definitely buy that your characters have separate motives-- separate to your own OOC feelings, too. Simply, things happened ICly that have forced her outlook to change.

On a slightly tangential note..

Elven conflict is hard-- but I think it's one of my personal favorites. In many ways, when the Elves get into conflict with another group or another city, it's Good vs Good (With splashes of neutral and evil mixed in, sure). But the true igniting potential of the Elves is their sense of racial community and enduring love for one another. Their slow and admittedly biased sense of justice. Elves aren't human-- so for many players, it's a challenge to try to extend out of own racial mentality. To embrace ideas of longevity, patience, and an almost awkwardly passionate love and sense of desperate protection for other Elven kin--- despite whether or not they're amiable or even a friend. I think it says something that the most severe punishments for an Elf is to be outcast and considered no longer an elf. Or that to restrict their freedom or dominate their minds is a fate worse than death. It's kind of a "Life not worth living is no life at all" ideology, which puts them at odds with more liberally sensible opinions and motives from the rest of the island.

What I'm getting at with all of this is that I'm super appreciative of the conflict created by Caron/Sharrans and the abrasive elves. And the numerous intermediaries! At the very root of this conflict (And I do know this, because I was an active part of its build-up weeks ago) is the desire to protect someone they love from something so very dark. The problem-- or rather, the conflict, is that the two parties are each trying to protect a person who is at odds with the other trying to be protected. Conflict started from a sense of duty and love on both sides is compelling and awesome.

So hopefully this OOC stuff blows over, and people can enjoy it all in-character.

allright i got no idea whats goin on.

if someone wants to fill me in hit me up somewhere that its one on one.

Anatida wrote:

I began to log back on with Iim’mur’ss about three(?) weeks ago, in response to an influx of new SD characters looking for her, and some PCs that had been on hiatus returning. Even with that, Shiloh was more my focus because he was /very/ involved with the Gray Watch, the Khem Cathedral, Rebuilding of Nes’ek, and several DM plots.

First of all, glad to hear the Mags PR is getting that SD roleplaying happening for you!

Joking aside, the situation of having two IC motives, and well established ones, in one stew is a tricky one and I do feel for you. It is not an easy position to be at. While I trust your competence as a roleplayer to handle it, I hope that others will now, especially after the clarification, be able to think it from someone elses perspective than theirs only.

And following text is general, not inteded on you Anaida.

Shame it was such quick fashioned PvP event and uninteded one. Sometimes the heat of the moment takes hold, I know because I am bad at those events too. But please, before you take it further regarding the PvP stuff, sleep over it and then come back. Reflect on it and think first and try to build the roleplaying aspect that was there to it. Having read a lot of posts about it, both IC and OOC, it is a shame that this, frankly, quite wonderful stimulis for RP cross numerious boards is being reduced to fight between egos behind the scenes. I loved to read those IC posts about it, the propaganda in both sides and how they are attacking each others and trying to pull the larger audience to their side. Just try to keep it IC and not take it on OOC side. Think first that they are characters, characters will never be honest with one another, well when they are at opposite sides... But that is the whole idea, playing a game of chess with rp fleshed out moves. Enjoying that game and accept the aspects of the game. Like real life relations, we lie to each others, we give false truths, half-truths, our views of events which our brains change to fit out perspective, understand that and understand that your characters do the very same as does others.

Yeah. Overall, this is a good thread to help clear things up, Ana. I mean, you'd really think it wouldn't at all be needed, but at times I guess it does.

But yeah. If anyone has issues with stuff like this going on, try to actually talk to those involved before any sort of jumping to conclusions, OOC. I know people often group together, even if at /sometimes/ it seems OOC. However, during these times, there are almost certainly a lot of RP/IC events that lead to such things happening. Or at least I'd like to think as much. It's still good to keep that in mind either way, however. Stuff does happen for a reason and if it's IC, keep it IC. There really isn't any need for any OOC stuff.

Whistling_Arrow wrote:

Elven conflict is hard-- but I think it's one of my personal favorites. In many ways, when the Elves get into conflict with another group or another city, it's Good vs Good (With splashes of neutral and evil mixed in, sure). But the true igniting potential of the Elves is their sense of racial community and enduring love for one another. Their slow and admittedly biased sense of justice. Elves aren't human-- so for many players, it's a challenge to try to extend out of own racial mentality. To embrace ideas of longevity, patience, and an almost awkwardly passionate love and sense of desperate protection for other Elven kin--- despite whether or not they're amiable or even a friend. I think it says something that the most severe punishments for an Elf is to be outcast and considered no longer an elf. Or that to restrict their freedom or dominate their minds is a fate worse than death. It's kind of a "Life not worth living is no life at all" ideology, which puts them at odds with more liberally sensible opinions and motives from the rest of the island.

What I'm getting at with all of this is that I'm super appreciative of the conflict created by Caron/Sharrans and the abrasive elves. And the numerous intermediaries! At the very root of this conflict (And I do know this, because I was an active part of its build-up weeks ago) is the desire to protect someone they love from something so very dark. The problem-- or rather, the conflict, is that the two parties are each trying to protect a person who is at odds with the other trying to be protected. Conflict started from a sense of duty and love on both sides is compelling and awesome.

So hopefully this OOC stuff blows over, and people can enjoy it all in-character.

What I personally love is when I see people going calling elves racists. Such an american way of approaching it, no offense. If you read Forgotten Realms lore, it is all about being racists. It is not a world of our century and our views where everyone are considered equal, because they aren't. It is a simple fact of Forgotten Realms world, some simply are born as better beings, their whole education is based on raising people believing they are better, their culture is better, their views are better, their gods are better to mention but a few. What people fail, in my opinion, to see is that elves find it hard to build a relationship with other races because the live less of a time. A loss of important person is not an easy position to any human, imagine an elf who lives few hundred centuries and has to watch multiple generation pass away, watch those they love die and can not do anything else about it than praise what they were in their lifes. When they do build a relationship, they are strong and severe ones, why they keep their sides against greatest of odds. For admiting that relationship is false, is devastating for an elf, having to forsake a kin or a friend, is a devastating act that they live through time after time after time during their lifetime. A life which spans beyond centuries. Thus it is easier to build relations with your own, like people who are traveling to a different culture, build faster relations with those who speak their own langugage. Build relations with native speakers of their own language, who have understanding of their culture, cultural behavior and mindset, it is simply easier, faster and in some sense safer. For second example: Living now in a city of tourism, I've notice that the locals don't want to build relations with foreing people, because they believe they will leave soon anyway. Why bother placing energy, time, resources to a relationship which is more than likely to die once the other party leaves, it is easier not to, so they obt to do so. And can we blame them for that? No, their reasoning is entirely logical, having to build such short-term relations multiple times, it gets heavy emotionally. Having to say bye for now, in some cases bye forever, is emotionally heavy especially if you finally got close with them.

IF my elf had seen few of her non-elven friends being persecuted like she herself was, she would have stood up for them and fought till the freaking bitter end. Like she actually did, as few know. Why? Because she had build serious relationship with those people, friends and kind of a family of oddities who accepted her and whom understood her. She even, at times, defended those few against other elfs. Because they were her group, they were those who she respected and understood. You could never hear Las say anything bad of Ulrik Valis actually, not because the player was a DM, but because he had shown her courtiness beyond most. Hence, she gave him information where she could, knowing she would never benefit of it in any way. Sorry Nivo for taking your character as an example. But there was others as well, Siferet and Almare as well got information because of them interacting with her, when she was so weak and lowly.

Now, my point is, please understand this is not a democratic world. This is not a world were all are equal. This is a world were racism is the very core of the world, our nation/race is better than yours, why? "Because we are." This is why the RP happening is so great in so many levels, it makes us, the players, to reflect on these kind of matter that are actually so strongly present in our own societies even now. Seeing racism happen, even in online-format and understanding its negative influences, just might make us better... in real life. Think the game as a learning experience or, at least, take it as a game.

EDIT: Anatida, sorry for siderailing the initial post a bit. But just wanted to grap on that. Though I do feel it sidelines the aspect your speaking of, understanding this is a game and our characers views/opinions/behaviour does not reflect ours. At least I like to think that my necromancers likeness to dig up graves and play with dead bodies does not reflect mine in real life.

Magiros wrote:

At least I like to think that my necromancers likeness to dig up graves and play with dead bodies does not reflect mine in real life.

Snerrrk

No worries, I don't think it's derailing at all. I think anything that constructively helps us separate the game from RL belongs here!

Magiros wrote:

If you read Forgotten Realms lore, it is all about being racists. It is not a world of our century and our views where everyone are considered equal, because they aren't. It is a simple fact of Forgotten Realms world, some simply are born as better beings, their whole education is based on raising people believing they are better, their culture is better, their views are better, their gods are better to mention but a few.

Now, my point is, please understand this is not a democratic world. This is not a world were all are equal. This is a world were racism is the very core of the world, our nation/race is better than yours, why? "Because we are." This is why the RP happening is so great in so many levels, it makes us, the players, to reflect on these kind of matter that are actually so strongly present in our own societies even now. Seeing racism happen, even in online-format and understanding its negative influences, just might make us better... in real life.

Emphasis mine.

Yeesh. Are we saying ig racism is comparable to irl racism now?

She's saying the concepts are the same, and how one deals with it in an online manner could theoretically be translated to real life.

I disagree, as I can't just run around shooting people in the knee IRL.

Or can I?

Edit: In an emphasis to not further derail the OP's point, I appreciate the honesty Anatida. You've always been a stand-up rp'er, imo. I hope nothing's happening IC to make you question that, or to chase you off. It's all about having a good time in the end, and no one should be able to take that from you.

Can we not with the flame-bait please? If you have something constructive to add, then by all means do so.

EDIT: I won't presume to speak for Mag, but the way I read it was this: If by seeing the effects of racism in the game, even where it is supposed to be that way, affects us greatly, then we should hold that lens to our real-life and live it with a bit more care to how we treat others.

i don't even know whats happening. apparently there's been a ton of back-channeling and we have someone apologizing for something but aren't exactly saying to who they are apologizing to or what exactly is being apologized for.

how about one of the people in this thread that clearly know what is happening to bring about this "public but not really public" apology or whatever the hell it is to the foreground so the rest of us that are not in whatever skype chat all this is taking place in have some idea why former developers are posting 10+ paragraph speeches that manage to somehow not say what the hell is going on?

In as respectful of a manner as I can possibly type it Commie:

If you don't know what it's about, then it likely doesn't involve you. Leave it alone.

Commie wrote:

how about one of the people in this thread that clearly know what is happening to bring about this "public but not really public" apology or whatever the hell it is to the foreground so the rest of us that are not in whatever skype chat all this is taking place in have some idea why former developers are posting 10+ paragraph speeches that manage to somehow not say what the hell is going on?

(keep in mind I don't know what's going on either) This is because Anatida is using the public forum to address the issue. If you don't know what it's about, nothing is stopping you from moving on from this thread.

Anatida wrote:

One of the misconceptions I want to address involves OOC hostilities. I think there is one person currently playing that I have an OOC issue with. That’s it. Even at that, I can say with complete honesty that my PCs do not react based on my personal feelings. I have PCs that are both friends and enemies with the PCs of said player, and have interacted with both.

I want to say; without reservation, I have no OOC issue with the current hostilities that are going on! PCs grating each other and causing friction is what makes a story.

Thanks for being so open Ana. I'll add on that I keep hearing that I don't like people and factions OOCly. Just like Ana, there is only one person playing that I have an OOC issue with. I don't dislike any of the factions I've been involved with or heard of -- matter of fact the one my PC was kicked out of is still one of my favorites.

Drusus has had it rough but because of the character I built, he doesn't dislike anyone either. Scared of, wary of, annoyed with, sure.

Rith'tar hasn't been out since Drusus is involved -- which is too bad since he'd be helping Iim 120% Cause Rith'tar dislikes a lot of people! :twisted:

This probably didn't need to be public and could have been resolved amicably between the players involved, or with the DMs.

I ssound like a broken record saying this, Anatida, and I hope you understand why.

(I have literally no idea what this topic is about.)

kind of hard to ignore a gigantic thread about apparently nothing.

someone spill the beans here what's going on.

I'm fairly certain if someone openly stated what it was about, there could potentially be a flame war on our hands. And no one wants that. Also, I do agree it probably could've been resolved between players involved, but I also feel that this may have just been a general thing as well, in a sense. Perhaps for those who may have had such thoughts go through their mind a number of times, or for people directly involved that may have thought such without being open about it all.

I appreciate the opportunity to clear the air. It's a preemptive way to let everyone know that if they've heard Maze has a problem with you/your faction/whatever due to the PC emotions running high that's not the case at all.

I wouldn't need to say anything except that I've been told that that's what some players and factions think right now. And I don't know specifically who is thinking this so I can't go and target a single player. I'm getting the "I heard that you are OOC mad..." stuff. So, it's not about nothing -- I don't want people to think I'm mad or upset at them I'm not. And it should be public since it includes all you wonderful Amia players. And frankly I don't have the time to send a PM to each and every one of you to make sure you know I think the players are great. <3

the only person i have a problem with is tormak. because that guy called me a lamer.

Commie. Sometimes I am 99.99% positive the entire universe wants to strangle you.

Thank you Anatida that was the point I was trying to make. To step into each others shoes and try to understand one another a bit better before we go make comments which aim is not to contribute, but to raise negativity or hurt. There is, in these IC and IG events, a premises for players to learn if they are willing to look into it and reflect, which makes roleplaying so great. Well, for me at least.

I will entertain your point Commie, but only this time, for having seen some of your posts, I am uncertain what your real motive is. I will be direct of mine based on what I understand of your comment, so please forgive me if I read too much into it. I am just a human who makes mistakes. There seems to be an underlying attemot trying to find a meaning that I am trying to state that racism of any kind is a fact of life or a justified part of our real life world. Let me clarify, it is not, it will never be and to be placed in such position, is not something any of us would be fond of. Lets understand the concept what we are speaking of here: A fictional world, which has a lot of basis in real life and racism, to which I wanted to give real world examples that are easier to relate to and to understand, without aiming to say they are justified in our own real world, but are entirely justified in this fictional world. It is the clear line, a fictional world of fantasy.

I was not saying they are comparable, I was explaining that the premises of Forgotten Realms which is a fictional realm, has a lot of basis in which lore of races are build on their believed self-superiority as a race. Now, how this correlates to in real life, we have had in history and current days societies which do the exact same thing, it is a fact. Now, seeing this in game, or any other media, tv, radio, in real life, in books that you read, might teach you understanding of the challenges others face, thus being able to understand them better and being able to relate to them better. While not real experiences, sometimes learning can happen by other means than actually doing something or being a target of it, in this case racism as it was what we are speaking of and oftend associated with elfs. Then again we can include any acism here, agecism, sexisims and whatelse. What this understanding can expand to is to understand one another as players, trying to realize that that fictional character in a fantasy world, does not represent us in this world or our views nor are we here to get you or other player, simply here to play a game and making a fictional stories and world of relations. Which operate in same basis as our world, why? Because the players are humans and it is an aspect we can not turn off.

The part that was taken and comment given to seem like I was using it to justify racism in our world, speaked stricly of fantasy world and how that fantasy world operates. Now, I feel I've clarified that part far enough and if you have questions of my personal views on real world, you're welcome to PM me but should be not the premises of this topic which aims to disucss and point out following: Players and characters are not synonyms for each others. Players and characters are most likely to have very different motives. Trying to import further information to those whom might feel hurt by the premises given by Anatida, who by her respect towards others, attempts to show that it is simple IC reasoning for her, not OOC against others. Even going to extend to reveal IC and IG information normally not given, but felt it important here

No Davis, I was not making an assumption of you or any other player going to shoot people in the knee in real life. Nor was I saying I am a gravedigger for just having had payed a necromancer who did it, what I was trying to say is that the experiences you have, in one way or another, will teach you something. Few of us here can say that we have not learned anything trough Amia, whether it is understanding on others challenges they face in real life, or learning skills, knowledge and language competences that can be used in real life. I don't see why this suddenly was taken like I am trying to say you will become shooters in real life, I am trying to focus on the positive aspects and believe we are all sensible people who understand what they can and can not do in real life. What often is less seen, is what people learn from the experience of roleplaying, or perhaps overseen. And while you migth have experienced something in real life, the IG might be the first place to experience or come touch with as a topic for someone else, whatever the topic is, thus imparting of a sense of an understanding of it, possibly.

my only motive is trying to figure out what the heck happened that brought on all this.

clearly it was something pretty big!

Awh... no one has to explain a thing. I do hope things get cleared up over this. I don't think the point of this post is to explain what happened, but to explain the very reasonable in-character motivations were not muddled up in an OOC mess. We could all learn from this post, that we shouldn't make assumptions so quickly without looking into another player's perspective. It might be easy to point the finger: "you're only doing these things because of OOC feelings and mixing up all your characters motives into your own!" when it's not true. Those kinds of assumptions create a hostile environment when rumours start spreading. It's all for fun.

Commie, there is a regulation in the forum not to speak of specifics of incidents and none of us wants to break the set regulations for the players placed by forum moderator. In order to uphold a respectful, healthy and safe environment for the people involved to express themselves in creative ways.

Unfortunately, you're not going to be told here what is happening, nor am I. To be honest, I hope none will. This kind of negative information does not need to circulate in a community and create more negativity.

Edit: Exactly what Elyon pointed out.

Magiros wrote:

Commie, there is a regulation in the forum not to speak of specifics of incidents and none of us wants to break the set regulations for the players placed by forum moderator. In order to uphold a respectful, healthy and safe environment for the people involved to express themselves in creative ways.

Unfortunately, you're not going to be told here what is happening, nor am I. To be honest, I hope none will. This kind of negative information does not need to circulate in a community and create more negativity.

Edit: Exactly what Elyon pointed out.

You're right. That means there's no need for this topic to even be open, if there's no Discussion to be had in this General Discussion topic, which means it really didn't need to be made in the first place. Peace.

Ed: To clarify, this topic is about specific things and accusations that occurred, and since there's no way to discuss these accusations in any way shape or form without running afoul of the "no specific incidents" rule, the topic was locked. It was not due to any specific person's conduct, but simply because we don't support these sort of topics being made. No names were mentioned but the topic creator's own - but the topic's content and context is very much that of very specific things occuring, and there's no need for those topics to sit around.

Clearing the Air [aka] For Fun's Sake

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