Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Location: Georgia, United States.
OpenTheRift wrote:
Some basic maths for your pleasure: if you have 5 rounds on a wiz sorcerer that is 10 spells, with Isaac's you can belt out 120 per cast against 1 person. So 240 per round. That's is 1200 dmg in 5 rounds. Nothing survives this
I.. suck at Math, but I'll agree that any amount of free rounds with Isaac is a game changer.
And if they survive it, your summons should be sufficient. Even if you multi-class for Rouge / Ranger.
Have you ever considered taking Evocation spells to actually dish damage? I see it as kinda pointless to just "Dominate" someone. At a time like this, with how the adjustments are going, It might be better to work towards doing actual damage + summons. If you Dominate someone, your summons + actual spells is a good option.
Trust me, it's not pointless in matters of RP. And unless someone goes with the short duration on domination spell, the new implements will just kill the very concept of my build. I'm aware of the possibilities on creating a spell book with all dmg spells and alike, or going as a sorcerer to just do the same without the need of setting your spell book before battles and so.
My build is more inclined to RP considering all the weak spots and so but the short duration may hurt badly, specially if there is no DM around because the duration on the spell will depends on if the counterpart will be willing to do so. And we know how terrible PvP ends without DM supervision, even if we're playing with mature people.
Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Location: Georgia, United States.
EDIT:
My original post sounded hostile / ugly and was not the intention..
If the build you have, as a Enchanter, is just for RP. How does duration of your Enchantment (Offensive) spells come into play? Sense Enchantment is very mechanical spell focus.
@ Almut - CC spells are a single.part of the wizards wide variety of spell options, if anyone were to limit themselves to just one and only one tactic then yes they are going to have a hard time. I would suggest, as level 30 caster you should have secondary and tertiary tactics.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
I'm curious what the idea for Cone of Cold was. On most of the other offensive Shades, it's easy to reason them doing double damage, because they're higher spell level than their maximized normal versions and can't be metamagic'd. Magic Missle, Melf's Arrow, and Fireball all easily fit that idea, but Shades Cone of Cold is only 1 level above it's normal counterpart.
Also, what is the plan for the Shadow Summons? IMO, they're cool, but hugely hit or miss. Either you're up against something that can't deal with it's immunities and gets sapped to death in a couple of hits, or something that smacks it silly in a couple of rounds and is too resilient for the drains to kill anyway.
_________________
You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Yeah, I can see that from the notes. The fact that it's a will save at least makes it interesting compared to it's normal version, even if it can't be metamagic'd. Not great, but eh, the variants are meant to be a grab bag.
What's up with Fireball, though? The saves vs Will is nice, but it's a level 6 slot. No reason it couldn't be double damage(half cold, half negative). Maximized Fireball takes a level 6 slot, so double damage evens out to being about the same, probability-wise. Also 10d6 Cold + 10d6 Neg = 20d6, which puts it in line with Chain Lightning, but still a bit behind, as it can't be metamagic'd. I'd look at Shades Fireball again, the Will save is a nice perk, but as is it's basically a Will-based Ice storm, which is of course not better than regular save-less Ice Storm.
Shades Fireball also still plays the Fire impact VFX, rather than Cold, like I imagine it should judging by the rest of the shadow variant impact VFX's.
_________________
You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
Not sure how to change the impact VFX on some of those. I looked into changing thebvarients of cone of cold, like using acidbbreath VFX for the acid variety, but it looks like it's tied to the 2da maybe.
Shades fireball also offers a d3 round slow and save reduction as well as up to 16d6, which feels pretty in par with maxed fireball. Also, shades works off illusion feats instead of evocation feats so it gives the illusionist something to work with that is better than fireball with no evocation feats.
Joined: 12 Nov 2015 Location: The belly of the beast
LibrisMortis_666 wrote:
EDIT:
My original post sounded hostile / ugly and was not the intention..
If the build you have, as a Enchanter, is just for RP. How does duration of your Enchantment (Offensive) spells come into play? Sense Enchantment is very mechanical spell focus.
I used to often use Dominate in PvP as a method of non violent conflict resolution. The amount of time the old duration provided allowed for some interesting RP, and usually ended favorably. I know people are going to hate me for saying this, but it rewards people for having low will scores. Casters are already suffering due to astronomical fort/reflex saves where will was often passed over due to freedom/mindblank pots. Changing the duration of Enchantment line didn't even really fix the complaint, which was the fear (necromancy) pulses and auras the NPC spawns use to cripple you for what seems to be an eternity. Are casters useless in PVP as a result? Certainly not, though they are now more limited in viable means of CC...meaning, forget the three feats in Enchantment and use the EDK's long fear duration instead.
_________________ Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.
Changing the duration of Enchantment line didn't even really fix the complaint, which was the fear (necromancy) pulses and auras the NPC spawns use to cripple you for what seems to be an eternity.
The monster abilities were supposed to be changed too... unfortunately I don't have control over this.
re: domination CC - sorry, not much I can do here. Sometimes you have to bend things in the name of balance. I Am Not A DM - but if I were, and a PC failed the Dominate save, Iwould expect them to RP being dominated for the duration of the secondary debuff's existence, even if they no longer have the fancy daze effect over their head that bring all actions to a complete and startling halt.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
msheeler wrote:
Shades fireball also offers a d3 round slow and save reduction as well as up to 16d6, which feels pretty in par with maxed fireball. Also, shades works off illusion feats instead of evocation feats so it gives the illusionist something to work with that is better than fireball with no evocation feats.
Ah, I missed Shades Fireball also doing the Freeze effect too, but I'd honestly say that's both backloading the spell and making it a bit redundant. No need for two of the Variants to do the same thing. Making Cone a will save and having the Epic give freeze makes sense because it's in a weird position compared to it's original version(only one level higher, already cold damage). It needs to be substantially different, or there's no reason to use it over the original version.
But Shades Fireball easily fits into the convention already set by Shadow Magic Missile and Shadow Melf's Arrow. And if the point of the variants is to give Illusionists both some variety and some direct damage, I'd say what's missing so far is a real Oomph spell. And that spell could be found in Shades Fireball. I'd suggest something as simple as:
10d6 Cold Damage, 10d6 Negative, Reflex for Half, +2d6 per Focus, 10% Cold/Neg Vulnerability at Epic.
That could just be me, though. I appreciate trying to find something new and interesting for Shades Fireball, but having it be a Will save, all-cold damage when every other damage Variant is Cold/Neg... it's just weird and muddy compared to what was already a great meta-idea we had going there. In terms of function, Shades Cone of Cold is there for Crowd Control and Shades Fireball is there as the one big face-punch an Illusionist can throw that falls in line with like an un-metamagic'd Chain Lightning.
_________________
You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Anyone else have thoughts on the current Shades Fireball versus like the alternative cold/neg thing?
I want to say again, I'm very happy with how the idea for the Shadow Variants turned out overall. Fireball and SMA I obviously think can still be improved, but as someone who's had a PC with the variants since way back when, the meta we've created with them is really cool gameplay and narrative-wise.
Is there a plan for Shadow Stoneskin? Shadow Conj's Mage Armor gives Cold/Neg resistance. Greater Shadow Conj's Globe gives saves versus Cold/Neg. Following the theme, perhaps Shadow Stoneskin gives some partial immunity to Cold/Neg?
_________________
You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
It does like 98 maximized and 48 if you make the save, that seems like a pretty high number as a general rule since pretty much anyone but people who seriously invest in will/spellcraft are going to fail the save. Honestly 48 isn't a huge deal, and I may be under estimating how powerful will save spells are, but even playing a wizard which uses will as a main stat I had to gear up to +20 to get it to the point where I'm not worried about spells that ignore mindblank; and I took luck of heroes and strong soul on character creation for extra padding.
That said: Ice storm is still a thing so I'm worrying over nothing.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
bobofwestoregonusa wrote:
Does shadow conjuration now ignore evasion? Because in that case it's now super powerful lol.
I assume you mean Shades Fireball? Yes, as it's a Will save you can't rightly "dodge" something that's coming for your mind. But I wouldn't say it's super powerful at all, given the limited damage, single elemental damage type, and the slot it takes. It's a Lv 6 Ice Storm with a save. Yeah, a couple of goodies if you happen to be an epic illusionist, but even then, redundant when compared to shiny new Shades Cone of Cold, which does the everything Fireball does including more base damage, more total damage, and a split damage type which means it's not as useless in all the situations a Cold fireball would be.
Compare at epic: Shades Fireball(10d6 Cold+ 6d6 cold) Maximum of 96 Damage Shades Cone(15d6 + 3d6 Cold + 3d6 Neg) Maximum of 126 Damage Both are Will, ignore evasion, and apply a Freeze(fort based slow) at Epic. Fireball gives 10% Cold Vulnerability at Epic, so you'd probably use it first before switching to something else to capitalize on it.
That's why I see it as redundant, the weirdness of dropping the whole "shadowstuff is cold/neg" not even factoring into it. I'd much, much continue the theme of variety given by the Varients, and that means having at least one direct reflex-based AoE damage spell in the mix.
bobofwestoregonusa wrote:
It does like 98 maximized and 48 if you make the save, that seems like a pretty high number as a general rule since pretty much anyone but people who seriously invest in will/spellcraft are going to fail the save.
None of the Variants can be Maximized, though. It can't be stressed enough how much not being able to metamagic a spell plays into its power. You're never going to see 96 damage from rolling it, that's just the NWN engine and RNGsus. It's more likely you'll see see something around the median(16d3.5 = 56). That's before the Will save for half. Generally speaking, with Epic Spell Focus Illusion, it'll be between 56 and 28 damage Cold elemental damage, for a level 6 spell, which will sometimes Slow the target if they fail a fortitude roll.
If you're going to play a numbers game, go big or go home. Shadow Cone is there as a option for skirting around something's evasion and reflex. But if you're willing to roll a fistful of dice against the odds, there needs to be a case for that too. And I'd say a 26d6 reflex-based hadouken of cold/neg goodness serves that purpose wonderfully.
_________________
You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
I wrote a small list of suggestions for transmutation with a couple of options for spells since I couldn't think of anything ideal for them, the list is mostly focused on buffing but I also made some suggestions for it's offensive debuffing spells; though I didn't add anything to slow because I think if permafreedom ever gets dropped it will be the most useful debuff ever.
Quote:
Burning Hands - +1d4 per spell focus
Expeditious Retreat - Each spell foci grants concealment, 10% at spell focus and +20 per additional focus ending at 50% at epic spell focus
Magic Weapon - +1 slashing damage per foci
Magic Fang - +1 slashing damage per foci
Barkskin - 5/+1 DR with spell focus, 5/+3 with greater spell focus, and 5/+5 with epic spell focus
Animal Buffs (Bull's, Cat's, Etc.) suggestion A) - Spell focus: roll twice and use the highest result, greater spell focus: roll three times and keep the highest result, roll 3 times and keep the highest result
Animal Buffs suggestion B) - +1 additional bonus to stat roll per foci (no foci 1d4+1, spell focus 1d4+2, greater spell focus 1d4+3, epic spell focus 1d4+4)
Stone bones - +1 additional AC granted per spell focus
Ultravision - Bonus on search/spot rolls per foci
Bestow Curse - An additional -1 on saving throws per spell foci
Greater Magic Weapon suggestion A) - Spell focus changes the level at which this spell advances operating in increments of 4 with no focus, 3 with spell focus, and 2 with greater spell focus (no focus: 4, 8, 12, 16, 18 spell focus 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, greater focus 2, 4, 6, 8 10 12), epic spell focus applies a +6 attack (not enchantment) bonus
Gerater Magic Weapon Suggestion B) - Additional spell foci add additional properties to a weapon (keen, vapiric regeneration, ect)
Haste - +1 attack Bonus per spell focus
Flesh to Stone - On a successful save a movement speed penalty of 10% per spell foci is applied
Greater Stoneskin - Each spell focus adds 2 additional hit points per level (allows this spell to compete with premonition unless the character has divination focus)
Blackstaff - +1 negative energy damage per spell foci
Time Stop Suggestion A) - Each Spell Focus grants haste for a number of rounds per spell foci
Time Stop Suggestion B) - Each Spell Focus increases the duration of the spell by 1 second
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
expeditious retreat is absurdly good with your changes, I don't like it. imp invis's concealment + haste. it's not needed and makes a lot of other spells redundant by just granting that much concealment.
magic weapon and magic fang go to plus 5, so this effectively makes them a +8 weapons? no.
animal buffs don't need changes. other then perhaps auto-extending them with an epic focus. the extra die roll from suggestion B would make maximized stat buffs the best spell in the game so that's bad.
GMW is an awful idea. +6 is reserved for monk gloves only because of how amazing it is. handing it out to essentially every weapon and summon with a caster nearby is a bad idea. +6 means it beats almost all DR, doesn't matter that it's just an attack bonus not an enh bonus. the +6 bonus from this is so intense people would take the 3 epic spell foci just for this if even this was the only thing the foci did.
gmw suggestion b is ok if you do vamp regen, but that's also why people use blackstaff isn't it? giving free keen to things is sort of a ranger thing too, so it should stay that way.
haste; already the best spell in the game, you want to make it substantially better????
timestop; doesn't need buffs, at all. much less the two you suggest.
Honestly I just threw out a list with all the spells that could conceivably be buffed tbh. I don't know what all even could be buffed so I just threw out every idea I had.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
The divine spells were all weird ones I couldn't think of reasonable ways to buff tbh, transmutation is just a very slim school for those classes comparatively.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
I wrote a small list of suggestions for transmutation with a couple of options for spells since I couldn't think of anything ideal for them, the list is mostly focused on buffing but I also made some suggestions for it's offensive debuffing spells; though I didn't add anything to slow because I think if permafreedom ever gets dropped it will be the most useful debuff ever.
Quote:
Burning Hands - +1d4 per spell focus
Expeditious Retreat - Each spell foci grants concealment, 10% at spell focus and +20 per additional focus ending at 50% at epic spell focus
Magic Weapon - +1 slashing damage per foci
Magic Fang - +1 slashing damage per foci
Barkskin - 5/+1 DR with spell focus, 5/+3 with greater spell focus, and 5/+5 with epic spell focus
Animal Buffs (Bull's, Cat's, Etc.) suggestion A) - Spell focus: roll twice and use the highest result, greater spell focus: roll three times and keep the highest result, roll 3 times and keep the highest result
Animal Buffs suggestion B) - +1 additional bonus to stat roll per foci (no foci 1d4+1, spell focus 1d4+2, greater spell focus 1d4+3, epic spell focus 1d4+4)
Stone bones - +1 additional AC granted per spell focus
Ultravision - Bonus on search/spot rolls per foci
Bestow Curse - An additional -1 on saving throws per spell foci
Greater Magic Weapon suggestion A) - Spell focus changes the level at which this spell advances operating in increments of 4 with no focus, 3 with spell focus, and 2 with greater spell focus (no focus: 4, 8, 12, 16, 18 spell focus 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, greater focus 2, 4, 6, 8 10 12), epic spell focus applies a +6 attack (not enchantment) bonus
Gerater Magic Weapon Suggestion B) - Additional spell foci add additional properties to a weapon (keen, vapiric regeneration, ect)
Haste - +1 attack Bonus per spell focus
Flesh to Stone - On a successful save a movement speed penalty of 10% per spell foci is applied
Greater Stoneskin - Each spell focus adds 2 additional hit points per level (allows this spell to compete with premonition unless the character has divination focus)
Blackstaff - +1 negative energy damage per spell foci
Time Stop Suggestion A) - Each Spell Focus grants haste for a number of rounds per spell foci
Time Stop Suggestion B) - Each Spell Focus increases the duration of the spell by 1 second
This makes E. Retreat OP as hell. No. Makes Magic Weapon OP. No. Fang? No. Suggestion A for the animal bullfs could be viable. Maybe. Stone Bones: No. Ultravision: no, you can already spam TS and C/C for spot in a can Curse: Would rather see something more thematic or interesting GMW: No +6, no power creep, no free properties, ty. Haste: Shouldn't be buffed, is already the most ubiquitous buff Flesh to Stone: Was already altered Greater Stoneskin: Was already altered to my knowledge, spell does not need to compete with one 2 spell levels above it Blackstaff: Already amazing, more and more and more stackable weapon dmg should not be added to spells for the sake of adding things Time Stop: No
The idea of these changes is to primarily alter less useful spells and not buff the already amazing ones. There are a lot of Druid Transmutation spells that will be seeing changes.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
If mages or priests get any stronger I would recommend putting the friendly fire on. This will be more RP-like since the mage wouldn't only hurt himself with the hellball while leaving his party somehow unscathed. Always had trouble RPing that... Also it will put in a more strategic use of spells for mages
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Idea for the Phantasms: Weird and Phantasmal Killer
Weird: Will vs Terror. Subjects that fail the Will save additionally roll a Fortitude Save vs Death. Magical damage on Failed Will is removed.
Phantasmal Killer: Will vs Terror. Subjects that fail the Will save additionally roll a Fortitude Save vs Death. The Phantasm jumps to 1 new target per Spell Focus(3 jumps/targets with ESF). Magical damage on Failed Will is removed.
Terror: Afflicted creature undergoes Fear for 4 Rounds. During this time, they also receive a -3 Penalty vs the Illusion Spell School. Terrorized targets do not roll the initial Will save vs Phantasms, and instead roll only Fortitude against the Death effect.
Mind Immunity blocks Terror, as does Fear Immunity.
It's well known that Weird and Phantasmal Killer are handicapped. Weird is only Wail with an extra save. These changes would make them workable in the sense that if you only manage to beat the target's Will and not their Fortitude, you've still done something rather than nothing. They're feared for a short amount of time and also you've softened them up for followups with another Weird/Phantasmal, or any other part of your Illusionary arsenal. The idea is that Terror is a specialized Fear sate that represents not only being scared out of your mind, but additionally having trouble telling what is real and imagined any more. Someone under the effect of it would be more susceptible to suggestion, being more willing to accept that the Phantasmal attacker with a knife or Shadow conjured Fireball headed their way is real.
Both Wail and Weird begin to have their place. Wail is all or nothing, one save or die, with only one hard counter: Death Immunity.
Weird is where you hedge your bets. Instead of one roll, it's two and it has the hard counters of Mind Immunity, Fear Immunity, and Death Immunity. However, you don't fail as hard if a target saves against one of the saves. If they fail the Will, but save the Fortitude, you've still managed to fear them and they're more susceptible to a future attack. In case they have Death Immunity, you might still be able to Fear them. By that same token, if they have Fear/Mind Immunity, they don't have to worry in the first place; that's where BoT Weird comes in and you go to damage instead.
TL;DR: Wail, one stop shop and one hitter-quitter. Weird, flexible, adaptable, but harder to brute force.
_________________
You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
I like some of the suggested changes above, personally.
Expeditious Retreat is a transmutation, let us not forget. Really bad school to SF in. 50% Conc is not that bad when there is already such easy access to Imp Invis. It just makes the spell a multi purpose, worth while casting defensive tool. Where as Haste is stronger for the offensive given the +1 action. Really, id like the idea of the SF improving the duration to make it stand out more from Haste.
I had considered the Magic Weapon option myself, though id rather see something like 1+1 per SF of Magic Damage. The idea is to make the spell worth casting, ever. +1 damage is not that big, esp if it wont stack with already present magic damage from say a DC weapon. Going up to +4 with ESF Transmutation.. come on, its ESF Transmutation, let that guy be good at something. Though if there is really something to powerful about a little splash of damage here and there, perhaps it could have a more outside the box effect? Such as.. casting Magic Weapon on your weapon gives it a Unlimited Use of say.. Magic Missile? More in line with the spell level, but i fear ultimately useless.
Bestow Curse, perhaps when cast on self or friendly adds On Hit: Curse to their weapon? Still not all that great, but might on occasion be worth while.
I always thought Barkskin and stoneskin at that should have a bonus to hide in outdoor/indoor areas. 5+3 per focus or something like that.
For the Animal Buffs, my idea in the past has been change the RNG aspect of it. Default being 1+1d4, SF makes it 2+1d3, GSF makes it 3+1d2, ESF makes it +5. Yes, ESF Trans would give the Transmute auto max animal buffs. Pretty amazing, but again, this is Trans and i don't think its TO crazy.
Another idea for Animal Buffs, and for many of the Single Target buffs like Keen, GMW, Haste, would be to give them a bounce effect. Like Magic Missile with ESF Evo. So when the Transmuter and their friend and standing together, they can cast GMW once, and effect both of them. Haste, and get both of them. At the end of the day, Mass Haste is king in larger parties, and GMW will have to be cast a bunch because it will be a bit chaotic how the bounce works, likely hitting closest friendly. But it would help make the Transmuter a bit better at buffing, or at least give him more options and tricks.
I've always felt Stone Bones was an odd spell. Why does it effect only undead? Meh. What i'd like to see it do is be considered a means to fortify your bones. In mechanical terms, something like a 5% physical reduction to damage to emulate your flesh still taking damage but your internals being better protected. It would still work on undead, perhaps even be more useful, while serving to function on the living too.
Blackstaff is not bad, i mean, if you are just buffing, its a little something extra. But for its level, I've always felt the vamp to be underwhelming. It really is not much, and vamp only procs 50% of the time anyway? Meh. Id like to see it get +1d6 Negative added to it simply because its an 8th level spell. Or perhaps Massive Crits? Either way, giving it something feels warranted.
Mordenkainen's sword is another potential weapon buff. If Blackstaff gets the added Negative, perhaps this one could be set to deal Massive Crits? Or another option for adding a Use Effect? Default might be X uses of Lesser Dispel, while SF upgrades it to Lesser Spell Breach x SF, so up to 3 uses per day. Pretty useful as a utility tool, and ties into what Mordenkainen is best known for, Disjunction.
Another idea for Transmutation would be a modification of Tenser's Transformation. This is more of a side grade of the spell, not an upgrade. But currently you ger Martial weapon proficiency when you cast the spell. What id like to see, is if you have the SF Transmutation feats, you get extra proficiency. SF: Trans might net you Simple, GSF: Trans might net you Exotic Prof, while ESF: Trans might net you Shield Prof. Most mages dip, rightfully so, and already have shield prof or whatever else, this would just be an interesting option for the few none multi classed mages out there.
Commie wrote:
expeditious retreat is absurdly good with your changes, I don't like it. imp invis's concealment + haste. it's not needed and makes a lot of other spells redundant by just granting that much concealment.
Does Imp Invis not already make the spell that ONLY grants Concealment redundant? It is also important to note that E.Retreat with 50% Concealment is vastly less then Imp Invis + Haste simply because haste grants the extra action, while E.Retreat does not. Though really, id just rather see Displacement changed to Turns per level so it can actually do its ONLY job almost as well as Imp Invis.
Commie wrote:
magic weapon and magic fang go to plus 5, so this effectively makes them a +8 weapons? no.
"Description: You empower the touched weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus." Currently there is never, ever a cause to cast either of these spells beyond like level 5. The proposed changes would make them useful at all levels, while not really changing up much. Keeping in mind as i understand it, the proposed change is to simply add +1-3 damage.
Commie wrote:
GMW is an awful idea. +6 is reserved for monk gloves only because of how amazing it is. handing it out to essentially every weapon and summon with a caster nearby is a bad idea. +6 means it beats almost all DR, doesn't matter that it's just an attack bonus not an enh bonus. the +6 bonus from this is so intense people would take the 3 epic spell foci just for this if even this was the only thing the foci did.
While i dont disagree that +6 is a Monk glove thing because monk gloves lol. I got to wonder what DR you have in mind that is not already made completely moot by the +5 weapons that are handed out like so much candy from the back of a shady van?
Sorry for posting again. Cant help myself reading more of this thread.. And also feeling my last post was ignored.
Sure, enchantment spells should get better. But stronger? Hell no... A buffed up party already slays everything on the server, why make it stronger with a few feats in enchantment. You could make the spell duration last longer which would be more appropriate for a mage specializing in enchantment instead giving it nonsensical buffs. +8 weapons? No thanks.. Haste spells that also boost AB? No thank you.. I could use a haste spell that would last longer with spell focus in enchantment
Also, I still find it strange that friendly fire is turned off in this server. Every party with a mage is RPing that they are dodging mass ice storms, acid rain from SoV, standing steady in earthquakes, immune to explosions from fireballs and hellballs... I think on a RP server that friendly fire should be turned on. A mage would use those area of effect spells at the start of a battle to deal maximum damage. Not when his allies are already upon them.
Sorry for voicing this maybe unpopular thought, just wanted to say I want to play a mage a bit more strategically and kill my partymember with a well placed hellball.
Sorry for posting again. Cant help myself reading more of this thread.. And also feeling my last post was ignored.
Sure, enchantment spells should get better. But stronger? Hell no... A buffed up party already slays everything on the server, why make it stronger with a few feats in enchantment. You could make the spell duration last longer which would be more appropriate for a mage specializing in enchantment instead giving it nonsensical buffs. +8 weapons? No thanks.. Haste spells that also boost AB? No thank you.. I could use a haste spell that would last longer with spell focus in enchantment
Also, I still find it strange that friendly fire is turned off in this server. Every party with a mage is RPing that they are dodging mass ice storms, acid rain from SoV, standing steady in earthquakes, immune to explosions from fireballs and hellballs... I think on a RP server that friendly fire should be turned on. A mage would use those area of effect spells at the start of a battle to deal maximum damage. Not when his allies are already upon them.
Sorry for voicing this maybe unpopular thought, just wanted to say I want to play a mage a bit more strategically and kill my partymember with a well placed hellball.
I can only agree with this, the power seems to be shifting over towards Mages being overall more useful than any class, so why bother taking them at all?
turning friendly fire on would ensure that there would be no "brainless" spamming of offensive spells, or at the very least force the mage to think before he casts. "Could X and Y avoid the spell with their saves? I think so" *Casts it* instead of *Lolspellsspellsspells*
Because I know that there are plenty of people that couldn't make the saves and would have to suffer, but that's where RP comes in, you aren't invincible, I had to deal with friendly fire in PnP and we are trying to get close to it, so why not turn it back on for a bit and see how it goes?
Right now there are literally no drawbacks to being a Mage (No potion cost, can pretty much solo any boss with the right summons, only needs one base stat to be effective (Cha or Int, easy to max out) So yes, make it harder being a mage in a group, you want to blow stuff up? go ahead, but you better be ready to deal with the consequences if you blow up a party member.
You can hit 40 vs spells to all saves and its pretty trivial with spellcraft. It's largely the reason so many things are getting saveless effects.
I've generally only found this to be true for int builds or fighter builds that can afford to take literally every save feat to be honest, but 40 is hyperbolic. You can get up to low 30s on your worst save usually unless you're definitely a wizard. I make a lot of builds to see what's really possible with the sort of gear we have and I rarely find that sort of upward potential but I could be wrong; that said you can get +7 very easily on a basic 14 int build with a single bard dump if you take bard 1 at 30 which nets you taunt, spellcraft, tumble, and UMD all in one dump. My favorite STR wm build gets like <negligable> fort, 35 reflex (after the ring of evasion), and 38 will without having any weird caster levels simply because I can drink an owls and a cat's potion to bump it up. But that requires me to take Luck of Heroes, Strong Soul, Great Fort, Lightening Reflexes, Iron Will, and all of the epic versions as well. That's why fighter22/WM 7/Bard1 is so resourceful; tons of hp, reasonable AC that you can expertise up for monster tankng, respectable AB/Damage, and saves out the b-hole.
Edit: That said this build loses to any serious AB gimmick WM in most fights so take it with a grain of salt. It's much more of an "I'M A GOD DAMN ADVENTURER" type thing that can jump into any fight anywhere and contribute relatively well.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
Correct me if I am mistaken, but I strongly believe that the fact friendly-fire is off is to avoid griefing. Although, I wouldn't mind having it turned on; it would make people pick up single-target spells/spells that only target ennemies instead of the go-to's everyone as been taking for as long as I remember.
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Mary Beauchamp LesFleursDuMal~,~'~{@Skype: MaryOfWaterdeep
You can hit 40 vs spells to all saves and its pretty trivial with spellcraft. It's largely the reason so many things are getting saveless effects.
I've generally only found this to be true for int builds or fighter builds that can afford to take literally every save feat to be honest, but 40 is hyperbolic. You can get up to low 30s on your worst save usually unless you're definitely a wizard.
low 30 save vs spells (lets say 33) gives you, what, a 20% to be hit by a level 9 spell vs a wizard that has an epic focus in that school and max int (so dc 38)? the lowest you can roll and pass with a 33 is a 35, so unless you roll a 4 or below you pass. on your worst save. vs a level 9 spell.
You can hit 40 vs spells to all saves and its pretty trivial with spellcraft. It's largely the reason so many things are getting saveless effects.
I am very selective when it comes to spells. If a target can make a save 'once' and be done with my cast, then its safe to not take. Instant win is always viable however.
You can hit 40 vs spells to all saves and its pretty trivial with spellcraft. It's largely the reason so many things are getting saveless effects.
I am very selective when it comes to spells. If a target can make a save 'once' and be done with my cast, then its safe to not take. Instant win is always viable however.
Harm is my favorite damage spell.
Harm, also not an arcane spell.
Harm harm ice-strom, a sure-fire way to kill anyone who doesn't know what it is.
Tested some of the new shade stuff out, and is quite fun. Illusion DC all seems to apply properly which makes it extra fun. No idea if just poor number rolling, but shades fireball consistently did a lot more than shades cone of cold I found. Does seem an odd choice it doesnt do the cold/neg split like rest, but only a minor quibble I think.
But did find one bug. Shades fireball seems to just add +6 dc to every person struck by it in turn for some reason, stacking up very high. Epic illusion focus taken, obviously, for it all.
Tested some of the new shade stuff out, and is quite fun. Illusion DC all seems to apply properly which makes it extra fun. No idea if just poor number rolling, but shades fireball consistently did a lot more than shades cone of cold I found. Does seem an odd choice it doesnt do the cold/neg split like rest, but only a minor quibble I think.
But did find one bug. Shades fireball seems to just add +6 dc to every person struck by it in turn for some reason, stacking up very high. Epic illusion focus taken, obviously, for it all.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
^At epic, if you fail Fortitude.
Quote:
Tested some of the new shade stuff out, and is quite fun. Illusion DC all seems to apply properly which makes it extra fun. No idea if just poor number rolling, but shades fireball consistently did a lot more than shades cone of cold I found. Does seem an odd choice it doesnt do the cold/neg split like rest, but only a minor quibble I think.
Depending on what you were testing it on, the targets may have died to the cold damage before they took the negative damage from Negative, so it would look like you're doing less. They seem pretty even from hopping on and testing again, but that might indeed mean it's off a bit, as Cone is supposed to have an extra 5d6 base damage. Which isn't a lot either way. I'm still crossing my fingers that we'll see the light and let the variants get some actual oomph out of Fireball.
The DC thing is clearly a bug, no other spell functions like that.
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You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
Yeah, a bit of testing later and it seemed it was just poor rolling was all, as got fairly similar damages in another attempt to test it. Slow/freeze all seemed to work too, on stuff that wasn't eviscerated by damage alone.
_________________ Signature by Maryn! <3 I am also seen as DM Snuffles.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
During our downtime, I finally sat down and created a cohesive idea for what I'd been suggesting for the Planar Summoning series.
The Situation: The intended difference between the Planar Summoning line and Summon X line is power vs time. Summon X is something you keep out for a long time and has a moderate power, Planar summons are mechanically stronger but last for a shorter time. This is somewhat bucked by the fact it's often more feasible to keep a Summon X series creature out and buff it up and heal it as you go. That's not a fault of the Summon X series, however, but rather a lack of appeal to using the Planar summoning line.
The Suggestion: Take inspiration both from what we want it to be in practice and what summoning an outsider is often used for in PnP. Make them smarter and more useful than simply beating on something. Task-oriented, in a word. At the same time, if they are to be used as used as an "emergency" button, let them be actually good at intercepting threats.
---------------Planar Summons---------------
Duration: All Planar Summoning spells(Planar Bindings and Gate) are normalized to 3 Rounds/CL
Intercept: When summoned, Planar Summons Entreat(a la KC ability) all enemies within a 6.67 Meter radius, forcing them to attack the summon on a failed Will save. The DC is determined as per normal for a Conjuration spell.
The second part of this suggestion is more involved. I'm making note of that because even if its is unfeasible, I don't want the Intercept ability to get thrown out the door with it, when in comparison the Intercept idea is a lot easier to do and still accomplishes a good bit of what the Planar Series needs.
Tasks: Planar summons, all being particularly intelligent and sentient Outsider beings, are capable of performing actions beyond merely being meat shields. They have knowledge and secrets, both to share and to sell. A Planar Summon can perform a number of tasks based upon the power of the spell that summoned it. Once it has exhausted all of its tasks, it usually returns home unless considerably powerful magic binds it to its full duration.
Lesser Planar Binding: 1 Task Planar Binding/Planar Ally: 2 Tasks Greater Planar Binding: 3 Tasks Gate: 3 Tasks, but does not unsummon after fulfilling all tasks.
-Task List-
Knowledge: Identifies items in PC's inventory and casts Legend Lore. Venerate: Casts Bless and Circle vs Alignment(Vs Evil for Good, Vs Good for Evil, Vs Law and Chaos for Neutral) Investigate: Attempts to find and disarm the nearest trap or lockpick the nearest lock. Triage: The Settlement cleric list. Each option counts as one task and the prices are increased by a factor of 10. [Guard]: The summon is removed from the party and stands sentry. It reports those that have passed similar to the Drow guard scripts, will engage those hostile to the summoner who enter its vision, but will not move from the area it it patrols. Its duration is indefinite in this state, but every 3.5 minutes spent in Guard mode counts as 1 Task.
That's more or less what I envisioned. It's a way to give a the Planar Series a more enjoyable game narrative without getting into a further arms race between base stats and potions + time.
_________________
You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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