AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Constructive Feedback and Friendly Criticism Thread

Yeah sorry. You make a brand new account to toss around drama and accusations with zero proof you are getting banned.

This isn't a matter of a disagreement. Its a matter of you making some very serious accusations with no proof just to start drama.

Ban dodging, IP dodging, and being toxic is the reason you probably aren't allowed on the server anymore.

One more chance people before I lock this thread. I still believe some good can come of it.

Changed my mind will be posting but will just be posting positive feedback.

Mav the new black guard summons are amazing. I have seen all of them in action now and just wish I had my own bg to use one!

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

We usually ban people to protect the rest of the player base. And circumventing a ban just to spread more toxic to the server... you are correct.... point proven indeed.

There's a difference between raising awareness of your blatant power abuse and corruption, and complete lack of effort to hold yourself to a decent standard of integrity, and spreading toxicity.

It's almost cute, the degree of hypocritical behavior you guys exemplify.

You demand others accept criticism, while remaining shamelessly incapable of accepting criticism yourselves, without censoring it and banning them on the forums. It's a damn good thing you just run a forum for a dead game, as opposed to a country, isn't it?

Why are you trolling? you have zero hope of having your message heard. It's all about presentation! :idea:

I think we can all agree at this point a lock is in order. We'll unlock at some point, but please read the very first post in the meantime guys!

Terallis wrote:

Actually, I believe I do have some feedback/criticism.

Right! So, something I've been noticing about the server for a long time now is a heavy lack of consequences (permanent or otherwise) for IC actions as a whole. I understand that certain things generally fall into specific rules, but even with certain things in mind, there's very little that actually happens. But lets go over the problem and then a possible solution.

The Problem

As things are, there doesn't seem to be much of anything stopping players from doing whatever they want with their characters. As a whole, that's cool. People should have that freedom. However, I more mean in the negative sense. Stuff that really doesn't make much sense at all. Death is obviously a trivial thing and people almost always treat it as such IC, as well. That Amia has such heavy access to raise deads that death itself means absolutely nothing at all. Likewise, with these 'immunities' in mind, it drives people to do a lot of stupid things.

Some passive examples to general things that happen can include entering a city and just causing general chaos when there's guards everywhere or even a small army of PCs, challenging and insulting gods or lords of planes (even inside their respective planes), or to expand a little on the first point, openly assaulting fortified cities like Tarkuul or Kohlingen as a single man. Just some examples, but it gets the point across.

With my time here, most of these things have been looked at as simple matters and nothing is ever really done about them. Sure the PCs strike back and certain things aren't even permitted without DM oversight. However, even in the cases of DM oversight, consequences don't seem to exist at all. Whether it's something simply just ignored or railroaded into something else happens. In the case of someone causing chaos with destructive magic in a town, and then getting completely destroyed by a massive gathering of PCs that they knew were there, it really should have more of a consequence.

I understand that DMs are generally very against stuff like forcing something like permadeath unless they do something incredibly stupid that warrants it. However, at the same time, I see these sorts of incredibly stupid things being done myself, and instead of even consideration on permadeath (or even something lesser for that matter), it's just glazed over and railroaded into an inescapable solution where the character in question is brought to freedom and raised or similar.

This very same thing seems to feed the kind of conflict that people don't actually like. Non-stop PvP, for instance, is a huge grievance that people generally just like to avoid. PvP itself is fine and will of course happen, when it comes to conflict. But at the same time, when someone continually tries to initiate PvP, even going so far as to seek out the simplest of reasons just to do so (often also due to having a power build), it becomes extremely annoying as a whole. And such is done because there, again, really isn't any sort of even semi-permanent consequences. But of course, that's more of a difficult thing to deal with than the larger scale things.

Possible Solution

So, as a whole, I can see a solution for larger things that are generally overseen by DMs. In particular, something like assaulting or causing chaos in a city, single-handedly, can come with a warning from the DM stating that it carries a high risk and could lead to something, but not limited to, permadeath. Ask if they still wish to do so and go from there. This sort of thing could discourage just blindly charging into things and perhaps have players think about things more before acting. Come up with more interesting RP for the task at hand, rather than a blind assault.

In the rest of things that perhaps do not have fully DM oversight all the time, but otherwise are a well known entity, such outrageous IC actions should at least be viewed and considered as a whole. This could, again, go back to assaulting a town. Or more-so to the idea of a one man army going against a super power (like a city with a large army). Of course, in these cases DMs aren't around to possess guards and it's up to PCs to stop them. However, guards/militia/etc should be acknowledged as being a present entity, as well. But generally when someone is to make enemies of mostly everyone on the server and they seek their head, it becomes quite boring when it's just a repetitive game of killing and killing again and again and again. Such things should at least be acknowledged and considered as a whole. But that's still a more sensitive subject.

In Conclusion

I, of course, also don't refer to only the consequence of something like permadeath. I had primarily used that as an example as it seems the most relevant as a whole to certain actions done on the server. However, even smaller consequences aren't present. This likewise extends to DM events. Just some semi-permanent or fully permanent consequences for certain actions, as a whole, would make things far more enjoyable on the server. Someone acquires a semi-permanent injury that can't be healed through magical means, someone's weapon gets lost/stolen/destroyed due to their actions, someone gets their soul trapped where the soul gem must be found (which would only be a semi-permadeath), etc. Stuff like that could honestly enrich things and make things a lot more enjoyable as a whole. The lack of any and all consequences right now just makes things become very stale and repetitive, after all.

Thanks for taking the time to read this long post. Also if, for any reason these words are taken in a negative context, I can assure you they are not. I know that sometimes the intentions behind words can be lacking without actually talking to someone to hear their overall mood. But my mood with this is calm and polite as a whole.

More DM coverage and more DMs as a whole is definitely something we try to aim for but it is difficult. Not everyone is cut out to be a DM and/or we lack people interested who are from the neglected timezones.

The whole business of permadeath is a touchy subject. Amia started out as an RPlite server and has shifted more and more towards a lore heavy and rp heavy mindset as it has evolved. I still don't think permadeath and forcing it upon people is a good idea 98% of the time. I do agree that consequences should be more prevalent for some characters who are trouble makers.

I know some DMs who have done some events with very real and potentially permanent death as a result. The response is usually mixed.

Commie wrote:

Changed my mind will be posting but will just be posting positive feedback.

Mav the new black guard summons are amazing. I have seen all of them in action now and just wish I had my own bg to use one!

Toss me a PM about the mage. I need feed back about that one specifically.

Also, we will unlock this tomorrow

Unlocking this now. Please read the OP. If you want to get involved, don't pull the daggers out. If people want you to deliver the "cold harsh truths" about criticism of theirs, it is up to YOU to not go over the top what you end up having gripes with.

If this thread begins to explode once again, we will lock it for good and take action on people intent on using this thread as a bitching ground or a way to take punches on other people who play here.

I have no critic more merciless than myself. So I'll bite. Don't have any to give to anyone in this thread though, sadly.

Thank you for your trust!

Terallis: I think the question is how the rules are set and the principles Amia works on. Everything is protected: interplayer conflict cannot lead to consequences without DM discretion, and because it is up to DMs, it raises relevant questions of favouritism, which makes it a very delicate subject and I can understand a disinclination to impose real consequences on people. In general, less regulation tends to lead to more IC consequences, but I can see many reasonable arguments against this, one being that many players would feel persecuted or wronged by PvP. I am not saying one is worse than the other, in fact, I feel the current rules cater well to the playerbase we have.

I don't believe that increased DM activity is the answer; I think that when interplayer RP is or isn't consequential shouldn't be for them to decide, except for DM events. I think that players, and especially factions, could make bilateral agreements that the results of designated events will be long-term or even permanent. We have so many freedoms to work with, so long as we can find conciliatory agreements between ourselves.

P.s. I am not sure if this is what Maverick meant, but: Having a punitive system established for trouble makers sounds dangerous, because it entails adding exceptions to rules that would probably end up being very ambiguous and controversial, consequently adding to the workload of the DMs. I would apply same rules of consequential RP with said trouble makers: for players to find an OOC compromise to determine outcomes of the RP.

Opustus wrote:

I think that players, and especially factions, could make bilateral agreements that the results of designated events will be long-term or even permanent. We have so many freedoms to work with, so long as we can find an agreement between ourselves.

This!

There's even a little used rule, which I think people just need to start employing for faction RP:-

11. If you clearly escape scene, you may not continue the ”same” PvP later, unless such behaviour is explicitly agreed by all involved parties. It is a new encounter with all the above rules. Parties may agree to a "mutual aggression" pact, where it is agreed that hostilities may commence whenever these parties interact. This must be supported by previous role-play, and is generally done when two factions (such as drow houses) have on going IC disputes that end in hostilities. It is the responsibility of the faction leaders to make sure everyone involved knows about the situation. Should this be the case, please inform the DMs about this in advance so that they know what is going on.

My reasoning is this, and we all need to be objective here, how much salt would just knowing 'this guy is my enemy, I expect PvP could arise here at anytime. I'm cool with it, we have an OOC agreement' would avoid?
I have personally been in a party where an IC aggressor was OOCly polite and courteous and watched as people I was in a party with just started to bitch about them... Why? It's not necessary.
The reasoning is, that this guy had previously PvP'd and RP'd doing some bad shit to those people's characters, and they had the salt liberally.
Which only happens on RP servers, where we care too much about our silly pixel men.

I think AMC talked a lot about people shedding the ego when it comes to characters, they aren't you, and I agree with her wholeheartedly. They're on their own journey and they might just bloody well die; it sucks sometimes I agree. But, it needs to happen. . . Amia's a joke for character death because half the server refuses to permadeath people who should frankly be dead. Straight up; I have an archive of dead people, because I am awful at PvP and they died in a dark little hole I couldn't justify coming back from. I'm not a paragon, sometimes I get mad about it; then I log off and make tea.

Sometimes I like to think back to how dumb I was in those situations and write these:

An Ode to My Thavian

Remember him at each day's dusk,
As the sunlight sleeps and West Cordor ladies apply the musk,
He was rotund and red and wizardly,
But too much red he wore and was killed swiftly,
Lessons learned as a mage; Thayvians are hated,
Into assassinations they are easily baited,
Feel him close by your side,
When you enter PvP with too much pride.

Having no consequences is entirely the fault of the player. If you want death and maimings to be flippant, they will be. If you call forth a dm at the first sign of contention, no one is going to want to continue rping with you. It isn't worth the trouble. Establish your own code of conduct and stick to it. Don't treat each other like enemies. People are willing to follow suit when given an alternative. So make one.

Strom wrote:

An Ode to My Thavian

Remember him at each day's dusk,
As the sunlight sleeps and West Cordor ladies apply the musk,
He was rotund and red and wizardly,
But too much red he wore and was killed swiftly,
Lessons learned as a mage; Thayvians are hated,
Into assassinations they are easily baited,
Feel him close by your side,
When you enter PvP with too much pride.

Good old didactic poetry!

Akhlys wrote:

If you call forth a dm at the first sign of contention, no one is going to want to continue rping with you. It isn't worth the trouble.

Agree with everything pretty much, but a point on the above.

I'd personally only apply that rule to protracted, large-scale/long-term conflicts where going through the usual Pre-PvP song and dance is completely out of place, which I hope I got across. I agree that calling for a DM over spilt milk isn't the way to go about it.

Akhlys wrote:

Having no consequences is entirely the fault of the player. If you want death and maimings to be flippant, they will be. If you call forth a dm at the first sign of contention, no one is going to want to continue rping with you. It isn't worth the trouble. Establish your own code of conduct and stick to it. Don't treat each other like enemies. People are willing to follow suit when given an alternative. So make one.

To blame it all on players is wrong. The creators of a world makes it the way it is. To make a setting low fantasy and then blame the players for it is crazy. The foundation of the setting or the persistent world or what it is, is by the creator. The players play fiting to this. Players can alter a lot but in the end it is up to DMs and builders to make it fit the narrative the server, setting and story is aiming for.

I think some people call for DMs for other reasons than spilt milk. What is milk to you might be molten gold to others.

I have a criticism for both the playerbase and the DM's, and I mean no malice in it: It would be great if the community was more receptive to changing stuff, and not just stuck in it's ways. Time and time again, I see the same issues come to the surface, and nobody feels they can change it because everyone is just stuck in their ways of what they 'know'. Sometimes you don't know how much you'll like something until you try it, and similarly, just because you try something doesn't mean you're stuck with it, if you want to go back.

My only criticism for you Strom is that I need you in game more, you're too darned cool to be elsewhere. It might be that you're european, in which case you could add moving to america as a constructive criticism.

Generally the same statement to you Raven.

My only criticism for Storm is that I'm never sure which Rook they play to be honest. I know there's two and I have no idea who Storm's is.

RaveN wrote:

I have a criticism for both the playerbase and the DM's, and I mean no malice in it: It would be great if the community was more receptive to changing stuff, and not just stuck in it's ways. Time and time again, I see the same issues come to the surface, and nobody feels they can change it because everyone is just stuck in their ways of what they 'know'. Sometimes you don't know how much you'll like something until you try it, and similarly, just because you try something doesn't mean you're stuck with it, if you want to go back.

This.

CratzBlade113 wrote:

RaveN wrote:

I have a criticism for both the playerbase and the DM's, and I mean no malice in it: It would be great if the community was more receptive to changing stuff, and not just stuck in it's ways. Time and time again, I see the same issues come to the surface, and nobody feels they can change it because everyone is just stuck in their ways of what they 'know'. Sometimes you don't know how much you'll like something until you try it, and similarly, just because you try something doesn't mean you're stuck with it, if you want to go back.

This.

I, too, have to agree with this. It partially goes back to the point about consequences, but only somewhat. However, as a whole, without any sort of change, it brings stagnation. If people have initiative and are trying to do something that could be fun for the server through the adding of something new or otherwise, it should be welcomed with open arms. Of course, certain things require more work than others, on the player's part! But DMs should welcome change and help these sorts of initiatives. Likewise, there should even be a push by DMs to cause change as well. Even if something small.

I think it's cool that the DM'S reopened this.

I had fun with you guys for a good while before disappearing again due to rl busy body stuff. My best general feedback is to do less forum stuff and more in-game stuff. This forum is the most contentious and drama filled out of any that I have-- and that goes all the way back to culture norms. It's just tough. It's fun to talk to people, it's fun that we can have responsive staff members involved in personal requests. But it's also unfortunately entertaining to really argue and debate and in some cases, explode. And I think that much of the general server's health has to do with forum behavior. Maybe it can't be fixed by more meta threads, but just by easing off of it as best as you're able.

Don't allow OOC forum, Skype, or discord communications or debates become more interesting than in-game rp.

I'd open up to criticism too, but I haven't been around lately -to- be critiqued, I think! And my past errors still haunt me persistently and with unforgiving clarity.

Gonna reflect on a few things here with my personal opinion (not official opinion).

We welcome initiatives usually but if something similar exist, we often have to ask the "why?" repeatedly. Personally the major problem with most initiatives is the individual thinking that is also more OOC than IC usually.

In many cases there are already existing facilities and platforms that can be used for various initiatives and players tend to ignore those options which would often make sense ICly but the reasoning against it is more OOC. Now in most cases people also tend to disappear while the area is being made ICly (material gathering, RP) and OOCly (while it is waiting in the dev list or getting done by devs).

Another issue that I've often noticed. In many cases one or more players tend to believe that the server should be fitted around their PCs and not their PCs should fit in ICly first and then propose changes and initiatives within a reasonable level. This is a persistent world. The Max 65 PCs are in a far minority compared to the thousands of NPCs that exist around you.

Not to mention that people tend not to ask how such will contribute to the server and not just their own PCs. Are they going to be persistent enough or the dev work that they started will be all for nothing?

Another thing that players tend to forget is that if they start working with a DM on an initiative (that would for example either result with a module update or some special character ability) is that they forget that the DM only helps with the RP guidance. Everything else is up for the team's decision as a whole and just because something occurred with DM oversight, it can't and shouldn't taken for granted.

Of course, there is another side of the story. As a player I also found it troubling that it took me 16 months to get a response on starting an initiative on rebuilding the Triumvir for example or to do a very simple construction for Kohlingen, among other things. Yeah, shit happens and that applies to every aspect of life, Amia included.

There tends to be a lack of empathy towards the DM team as a whole that Amarice has already addressed her previous thread on what you should think about in 2017. Not unlike to players, DMs also tend to have RL vis mayor or other factors where they reach their limits and temporary but they cannot provide the same amount of oversight than before. Or they need some time off because that happens too.
Which leads us to another issue. People's objections about DMs spending too much time on playerside. That goes back to the good old capitalist thinking. If you run a business you should have some stake in it as a partner. Else you won't be motivated the same manner as you would be without having a stake in the business. It is needed just as much as DMing is needed.

DC requests. Yeah, our response should be faster on occasion but your life shouldn't depend on those either. Those are extras that you get for your roleplay. You definitely do not have to start with something special to make a character special. What is beautiful in the story if you have an average dude who works his way through stories to become special. It is also not a doorbell, yes we could reply faster but we reply when we do have time to reply and not anytime sooner.

Amia is not and never will never be a finely oiled machine which will serve everyone's need and we definitely cannot make everyone happy. We are also volunteers here and doing this for free (And don't come up with the DC payment thing because it is hardly a factor, especially in my case because I never make requests..but that only proves my point with the DC requests). The only real payment we get is our own enjoyment while DMing for you and if that is taken then there is definitely no point for any of us doing this. What more, the server itself will get to the point when its existence becomes pointless.

Anyway...my two cents

Does this count as feedback and/or criticism? 'Cuz I still believe in this.

Quote:

I think this might be my one and only complaint against the DM team. Of all the major plots I've seen, 9/10 times it's been run by Player-side DM factions. I'm not saying it's not well-deserved, but essentially every time I've been involved in such a plot, it's been run by DM player ideas and supported by DM's controlling things. Non-power-player characters become either just footsoldiers or they're completely ignored in favor of doing what the DM players want.

I have no problem with DM characters running factions. But honestly I would like to see more general involvement from the playerbase in being able to make decisions in events.

Honestly, something cool I'd like to see is like an event where power-players either get captured or can't do anything and it relies more on the "mostly unknowns" to save the day.

CratzBlade113 wrote:

Does this count as feedback and/or criticism? 'Cuz I still believe in this.

Quote:

I think this might be my one and only complaint against the DM team. Of all the major plots I've seen, 9/10 times it's been run by Player-side DM factions. I'm not saying it's not well-deserved, but essentially every time I've been involved in such a plot, it's been run by DM player ideas and supported by DM's controlling things. Non-power-player characters become either just footsoldiers or they're completely ignored in favor of doing what the DM players want.

I have no problem with DM characters running factions. But honestly I would like to see more general involvement from the playerbase in being able to make decisions in events.

Honestly, something cool I'd like to see is like an event where power-players either get captured or can't do anything and it relies more on the "mostly unknowns" to save the day.

This is another thing I really have to say I mirror. While it's been a bit better as of late, I still do notice this more often than not. On that same vein, a lot of this focus also draws focus away from other factions. There becomes a heavy focus on specific factions and others seem to really lose out because of it. But for the base point made, I've been involved in a number of events myself where I (and many others) feel like background characters and even get ignored much of the time by the NPCs, and sometimes focused PCs involved.

Not saying it doesn't happen but the reality of the situation is that everyone tends to flock to those players and ask their advice because they are some of the most knowledgeable, powerful, and longest lasting characters on the server. Some DM characters have been around almost a decade and that is usually why they became a DM because they showed such outstanding commitment and RP. DMs aren't always DMs and wish to play their characters once in a while.

A lot of great players become DMs so its hard not to have it appear that DM characters are always in the lime light. They are usually in that powerful RP role before becoming a DM aka Hector (Lutra).

Now I am not saying that what you suggested is bad. In fact I agree because I have seen it take place before but I also wanted to present the other side of the coin. It is hard to match up to what someone like Amarice's druid, for reference, has done. Shes been around for the good, the bad, and for everything in between. Yes she is a DM character but the Grove persisted and grew even with years of neglect from the DM team. It is only recently they have got some DM oversight so they can pursue their own faction stuff.

So yes I absolutely agree that it shouldn't happen if it is happening but I don't want you guys to assume that every single DM character doing something, leading an event, or doing something cool that you get to join is because of the fact they are DMs. It is because they put in the time, effort, and requests just like everyone else.

Everyone can start a faction and gather PCs to make one.

But it takes a huge amount of work with little reward.

I have been a faction leader for years before I even became a DM and it has often been very frustrating, still is at times. You always get PCs who join 2 weeks. You put effort into helping them, teaching them stuff, then they just run off and make alt nr. 38 and are never seen again. Additionally from my personal experience, a lot of people who join a faction expect to be "entertained" all day long. They bring little initiative and just hope plots and things to do are presented to them on a silver platter.

That is why most faction crumble, because eventually usually the "active" leaders get burned out and leave. And then if there is noone to pick it up, it falls apart within weeks.

The DM are not stopping you to make/lead a faction (as long as it is within the rules, aka 1 faction leading per player). So that most factions are led by DM, is not up to us, but up to you for not lifting your butt and start one.

Besides, we currently have more factions led by PC which are not DM than we have which are led by DM PC.

people also mass flock to shouts, which conflates the population beyond what it would've been naturally. in those instances it's not surprising that some people just become meat to the grinder.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

Everyone can start a faction and gather PCs to make one.

But it takes a huge amount of work with little reward.

I have been a faction leader for years before I even became a DM and it has often been very frustrating, still is at times. You always get PCs who join 2 weeks. You put effort into helping them, teaching them stuff, then they just run off and make alt nr. 38 and are never seen again. Additionally from my personal experience, a lot of people who join a faction expect to be "entertained" all day long. They bring little initiative and just hope plots and things to do are presented to them on a silver platter.

That is why most faction crumble, because eventually usually the "active" leaders get burned out and leave. And then if there is noone to pick it up, it falls apart within weeks.

Yeah being a old timer as well I can second the sentiment of this is how it goes.

I myself have a hard time IC getting attached to random alts who show up, and then think they should be accepted IC but fail to accept that from a IC point of view we don't know anything about you and have been here less then a month, and in the case of alts even if the creation date was a month ago if have next to no play time why would people ask them for help or entrust them with tasks.

When you have cases of people like Tuomas, Mala, Rose...ect all long time active players with no or limited alts ((and are played as alts with a clear difference in time investment compared to their main)) When stuff happens you would go to the people who you think will stick around to deal with it and based off how active they are you can trust they will.

Plot jumping bugs me a lot IC and OOC you have players who stick around in the inactive times to try and keep the place alive and afloat sparking RP and then when a DM does something for them to try and keep hope alive....Poof all the inactive alts from the area show up and take part then vanish again.

corypx wrote:

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

Everyone can start a faction and gather PCs to make one.

But it takes a huge amount of work with little reward.

I have been a faction leader for years before I even became a DM and it has often been very frustrating, still is at times. You always get PCs who join 2 weeks. You put effort into helping them, teaching them stuff, then they just run off and make alt nr. 38 and are never seen again. Additionally from my personal experience, a lot of people who join a faction expect to be "entertained" all day long. They bring little initiative and just hope plots and things to do are presented to them on a silver platter.

That is why most faction crumble, because eventually usually the "active" leaders get burned out and leave. And then if there is noone to pick it up, it falls apart within weeks.

Yeah being a old timer as well I can second the sentiment of this is how it goes.

I myself have a hard time IC getting attached to random alts who show up, and then think they should be accepted IC but fail to accept that from a IC point of view we don't know anything about you and have been here less then a month, and in the case of alts even if the creation date was a month ago if have next to no play time why would people ask them for help or entrust them with tasks.

When you have cases of people like Tuomas, Mala, Rose...ect all long time active players with no or limited alts ((and are played as alts with a clear difference in time investment compared to their main)) When stuff happens you would go to the people who you think will stick around to deal with it and based off how active they are you can trust they will.

Plot jumping bugs me a lot IC and OOC you have players who stick around in the inactive times to try and keep the place alive and afloat sparking RP and then when a DM does something for them to try and keep hope alive....Poof all the inactive alts from the area show up and take part then vanish again.

I'm in agreement with this, but will go one step further. I would love to see everyone, myself included, step outside of their established rp cliques and be more inclusive to others. I know some will say there are no such things as cliques on the server but there are. I am not saying it's wrong at all to rp with your friends etc, but to quite a few, and from what I've heard from several newer players on the server and who have looked at the forums, it appears that the same groups always rp together, make alts together, and are always rping in one area or another together. It tends to make people feel there is an invisible wall up, a "you're not one of us" mentality. I've heard it said about Caraigh and Wiltun players, and we've been trying for awhile to rectify that. There are groups on Amia island that I've heard of doing the same cliquish conduct as well. It's not just an isolated thing, and perhaps we should all stop and ensure that we're not just focusing on how we ourselves can have fun, but how we can have fun and ensure everyone else is too.

Well, I know a lot of people somehow feel that way.

I often RP with folks I know, mostly because, well they are on my timezone and all.

Anyways, I would like to emphasize here again, I gladly RP with anyone! So do not be shy. If my PCs (though mostly Malandria of course) is in a public area like the Grove, the forest or wherever (which is 90% of the time) you can 'always' approach her. She has said this IC and I OOC, time and time again, if she (I) wanted to have a private conversation for some reason, she'd go somewhere you cannot just walk in. And that is very rare. So if you see her in an area you can get to, she is available to be spoken to!

Feedback for DM Events; Please don't make your fights only AB/AC reliant. Some of us enjoy being offensive spellcasters and 70+ saves and a plethora of immunities just doesn't cut it for everyone.

Behind the scenes secret: When I don't just steal and modify an existing mob, my mobs usually have specific thematic weaknesses. (when appropriate, same goes for immunities btw.). But there are some different opinions on event-mob balancing, even among DMs.

When both the wizard and the cleric, and Greater Ruins, have no effect, you sit back with your shit ab and do nothing. Not so fun.

Mh, if absolutely nothing works, that is usually not so good, yeah, though I'm not certain what particular situation you are referring too, so I am also not qualified to really talk about that for obvious reasons!

LunarBloom wrote:

When both the wizard and the cleric, and Greater Ruins, have no effect, you sit back with your shit ab and do nothing. Not so fun.

I know what fight you were referencing, and there was actually a pattern where the immunities would drop! No one picked up on it though so there was a lot of "splashing" spells.

Well when my spell struck "between phases", you reset the fight. So I don't know.

LunarBloom wrote:

Well when my spell struck "between phases", you reset the fight. So I don't know.

The Boss Ring that would make it immune to that spell was unequipped for some reason. I made sure to mention it unless you missed it.

Immunity to Implosion, saves beyond 70, weird combat tactic that's only easy to time if you're constantly auto-attacking. Basically, caster-proof. We're boiled down again to buffmachines. Did the Dragon die? Probably. Does it matter if it is beaten to death by melee builds or by a critical failure to the spell of a dedicated caster? Not at all. It still ends up dead.

On combat-oriented DM events: I've been to resolutely nil DM events in the past year (EUROPEAN TIMEZONE I DAMN YOU TO HELL!), so not speaking from experience, but I've found the contemporary trend of "binary choice" quests in today's games appealing. You are free to choose between a pacifist and a violent path, with due repercussions. This could be implemented (though I'm sure you have).

Terallis wrote:

CratzBlade113 wrote:

RaveN wrote:

I have a criticism for both the playerbase and the DM's, and I mean no malice in it: It would be great if the community was more receptive to changing stuff, and not just stuck in it's ways. Time and time again, I see the same issues come to the surface, and nobody feels they can change it because everyone is just stuck in their ways of what they 'know'. Sometimes you don't know how much you'll like something until you try it, and similarly, just because you try something doesn't mean you're stuck with it, if you want to go back.

This.

I, too, have to agree with this. It partially goes back to the point about consequences, but only somewhat. However, as a whole, without any sort of change, it brings stagnation. If people have initiative and are trying to do something that could be fun for the server through the adding of something new or otherwise, it should be welcomed with open arms. Of course, certain things require more work than others, on the player's part! But DMs should welcome change and help these sorts of initiatives. Likewise, there should even be a push by DMs to cause change as well. Even if something small.

You guys and others sympathetic with this notion: could you give an example or two of what change you would like to see? Topically or more precisely? Changes to the conduct of events and factions, or some practical things like where people meet?

General criticism: Make more liberal use of the RP list a la Player Tool (GREAT ADDITION!). I find it disheartening to scour area after area in search of new pals.

I wish there was a way if there were, say, an impromptu player ran event starting, we could notify other players instantly on the server, such as if someone decides to throw a party or sparring match or something. That would help a good bit with finding RP.

I used to make use of the RP List / Player Tool, but after days upon days of never seeing anyone else use it, I stopped adding myself to it. I'll try to keep that up.

Quote:

Which leads us to another issue. People's objections about DMs spending too much time on playerside. That goes back to the good old capitalist thinking. If you run a business you should have some stake in it as a partner. Else you won't be motivated the same manner as you would be without having a stake in the business. It is needed just as much as DMing is needed.

Be careful with comments like this when you're talking to people who know just exactly how skewed the player hour to DM hour ratios got, and may still be. Don't make commentary when putting your money where your mouth is means revealing a very unfortunate truth about DMs. There are requirements up there, requirements that were never enforced with any regularity - even though they're incredibly, incredibly lenient.

@Dm's Be more open / trusting. Other wise it seems like a few of you have picked up as of late. For a while it seemed like a good few of you have been burnt out. I think activity form the dm's appear to be better served when two work together on one thing and can share what's going on. It seems like you guys have more fun this way too and it can help alleviate burn out. It's a tough job and pacing / sharing helps make it more fun for those involved IMO.

Krin wrote:

Hit me bois. I'm a big boy. I can take it. General feedback on anything you people think I need to work on.

Krin certainly strikes me as one of the few 'high charisma' characters for certain.Though He has quite a string force of personality not every one enjoys him. I think I would like to See Krin around more often. I suggest doing more things with outer pc's that allow for some back and froth in conversation. When some one takes the time to get to know Krin your roleplay can be quite captivating with how you play. It's a shame I don't get to see you be involved in any events or plots even in the smallest bit.

DukeDublin wrote:

As someone who's mostly played a single character, I've began managing a set of three. Hows that working out for you guys?

I see the noted change in playing three characters. I see a larger difference with your dwarf and I see the happier over all exterior out look that your fire genasi has on life. I think Your Fire boy and Fy are sharing a few habits only mildly so, so keep that in mind. I personally am very happy to have Fy back and I enjoy every minute of interacting with him.

TormakSaber wrote:

ps: say whatever you like about me too, in general

Your roleplay is actually very good. However you seem to restrict whom you are open to showing that role-play to. I'm unsure if it's just a character thing or if you just do not want to play with certain others. You can be a bit harsh and un inviting which makes it harder to get involved with your current pc. I like that your character has drive and a well though out back story that is intertwined with this drive. His MO is very clear when given the chance to see him in action. I was pretty impressed. I would suggest just being more willing to roleplay with others, and not immediately showing hostilities.

Budly wrote:

I would love some too, I think personally I been a bit distant and to much away from keyboard of late. But I always want to improve my RP!

I think you could stand to use a little more description IG for what your pc is doing. Other than that I don't see you often enough to - really- know your character well or what they do / are.

corypx wrote:

Lets see what people have to say about SKELETOR!

I really enjoy the rare occasions I can be truly immersed when Cory shows up or begins to talk more earnestly to a character. I like that Cory is a character who's seemingly willing to talk to any one ig despite his feels towards them being good or bad. I remember the time Matt was running about in mundane Armour and for some reason what should ve been easy simply was not and he was wearing himself thin with little understanding what he did wrong only fro a wraith Cory to show up. Priceless. I think I would say just strive to offer that more intimate feel of interaction with others. Other wise your roleplay seems pretty decent, and direct.

walnutboy wrote:

Okay so I'm curious, these things can be useful. I'm game. :shock:

I don't really know who your characters are or have much of a chance to see/ interact with them IG.

Estara wrote:

Anyone can feel free to leave me constructive feedback or friendly criticism. Always down to let things be aired out. I may pop back through at some point at leave some for the rest of you. Haven't really been forum active lately though. That's usually where I earn my enemies.. >.> So I may not, too?

Play more often and try to involve your self more directly with others. Other wise I really enjoy your roleplay and I love seeing those sweet rare moments when a well thought out bg come sin to play. I like seeing characters that are built to be characters and have their quirks. This is something I feel you excel at. I would like to see you play a bard again in all honesty but that's just wishful thinking on my part. I really enjoyed your bardic roleplay and I think the server can use more bard over all.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

Also roast me if you want; I'm already cancer.

Play more often. That is all.

Strom wrote:

I'll open myself up for a roasting. Pretty sure I could improve plenty about the way I play.

I'll start with one I'm well aware of:-

- Lack of focus upon an singular character for any considerable time since I played my dwarf has, I believe, lead to the impression I'm a drifter and my involvement in faction/group RP is not entirely welcomed as there is a held opinion I'll just get bored and play an alt.

My answer: Yeah, I know. I'm trying to fix it.

Play more often. I love seeing your ambitions IG but it is quiet a rare occasion. You do quite well playing a character before the meta of must lvl to 30. Keep up the good work.

Richard_Edmund wrote:

I have no critic more merciless than myself. So I'll bite. Don't have any to give to anyone in this thread though, sadly.

I don't get to see your character's personality too much but when I do I like seeing how vivacious they are. I personally would like to see a touch more ambition from your War Knight.

Her lack of ambition is more or less my own doing rather than hers. I don't find it easy to be social with people I don't regularly play with. I've got so many things I want to do with Elwyn, but it all boils down to me thinking about things like "It wont get approved" or "you're doing it wrong" or the most common "You haven't put enough effort into this."

It's something I'm working on, slowly but surely!

Richard_Edmund wrote:

Her lack of ambition is more or less my own doing rather than hers. I don't find it easy to be social with people I don't regularly play with. I've got so many things I want to do with Elwyn, but it all boils down to me thinking about things like "It wont get approved" or "you're doing it wrong" or the most common "You haven't put enough effort into this."

It's something I'm working on, slowly but surely!

Same here for Shana though most of it boils down to being self evolving and personally pushed points... I'm never sure how far as a player I should push a characters past or personal quest which doesn't have DM oversight. I have no grounding in D&D lore so mostly play what I like and feel.
Beyond that I've found people ICly and mostly OOCly assume they know the direction I'm going or trying to go... is that my fault for not laying every thing out on the table from the start and making sure OOCly people know my characters quirks?

I read most of this thread, and I still lurk, hoping to find the motivation to one day come back and play any of my admittedly huge arsenal of characters again.

My constructive criticism isn't just for the team, or the playerbase, but everyone on Amia as a whole:

Forget the "I must win." mentality. This is D&D, well, based on it anyway, it's about the story, not a win. Most great stories have a lot of losing involved before any kind of a win is achieved. I see too many who want to win at all costs, and quite simply ignore lore and roleplay to do it. We're all players in a big theater production, each the main character in our own story. Not everyone will be the hero, nor should they want to be.

In doing this, something has to change on Amia. Players need to trust each other. This, I think is the single biggest issue Amia faces. Players don't trust DM's, DM's don't trust players, players don't trust players. The aforementioned mindset is partially to blame, and in fact will cause quite a bit of mistrust across the board.

I've been away for about 6 weeks or so, and have taken a good long hard look at my playtstyle, the server in general and the forums, and these are my observations, take them as you will.

Quote:

Your roleplay is actually very good. However you seem to restrict whom you are open to showing that role-play to. I'm unsure if it's just a character thing or if you just do not want to play with certain others. You can be a bit harsh and un inviting which makes it harder to get involved with your current pc. I like that your character has drive and a well though out back story that is intertwined with this drive. His MO is very clear when given the chance to see him in action. I was pretty impressed. I would suggest just being more willing to roleplay with others, and not immediately showing hostilities.

You caught Korthan on one of the rare times he actually had somewhere to go and something to do, and engaged him invisibly with a threatening looking wolf companion and argued with him over semantic definitions of words. The situation you created with your encounter was by defintion one that was going to create a harsh and uninviting reaction from the characters you ran across, especially when they're already busy with something and the crux of your conversation was arguing with someone over the definition of a word they used to let you know that you shouldn't let the wolf approach them.

This is not an unwillingness to roleplay with people, but an IC reaction to the situation you created. Immediately showing hostility is a reasonable reaction to an invisible mocking voice being accompanied by a wolf whose description quoted it as angry, snarling, menacing, and man sized.

I would just like to use this opportunity to check, if any of my characters at least made someone interested enough to remember. Mostly because I had feeling like playing here leads nowhere :lol:

So any points on Faelyn, Kaido, or any other?

TormakSaber wrote:

You caught...and man sized.

Actually I was just about to have him come out of hiding and say something but I didn't have the chance as hostile ic action occurred and He's not the sort to step out of hiding when some one's just threatened to kill him or his pet- his pet is also larger than most individuals and I didn't have a chance to describe what was happening first. You reacted before I had a chance to write any sort of actual intro like I wanted and I was forced to just respond ic to the hostility.

Perhaps this was my fault for not having some predetermined intro keyed up but I was attempting to have him compliment you at first.

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