but by asking them to deliberately ignore anything until the shit hits the fan and it's too late to stop, you're demanding they play counter to their character, if sniffing out the plan and stopping it before it occurs is their goal.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Don't, Quar. You are sometimes a hothead, and sometimes you reach a bit far, and at other times you come across totally wacko when you post on the forums, but interacting with you as Quar'agh in Wiltun gave me the opportunity to see what you're genuinely capable of IG, and I was pleased.

Last night was the first time I've experienced the "run off and go grab a bunch of epics to smite my pc" type RP. At first I was accussed of bullying and griefing and "camping out" the spiders, waiting for victims.

All the usual assumptions that everything I was doing was somehow OOC and wrong by the good guys was thrown at me in tells. Even though, I followed the PvP rules to the letter and accepted the IC consequences when the epics came and smote my pc, then tied up, tortured and humiliated the pc, etc...

It turns out that many of the good guys were adventuring and having tea parties with the evil surface dudes...but, anyways, it was fun watching them argue at what level they should get their 'revenge'. I don't complain in these situations. Its my job to make it fun for others and to take the fall when the good guys win.

But what riles me is when people accuse you of everything from griefing, to camping, to picking on lowbies (life's not fair in real life either) when all you're trying to do is play your role and make it fun for everyone. Sometimes, you win, sometimes you lose, but there is conflict that drives story that in turn gives everyone a good time.

I would just wish people would try and focus on the story put before them and leave out the OOC accusations because I somehow make the deck uneven before I offer the other side a PvP or verbal conflict situation (called playing 'smart'). The ways out of having a more powerful PC in front of you are clearly not fighting your way out. But I guess not every PC has a high wisdom...it just seems like every PC has a low wisdom in conflict situations...

Having said that, the vast majority of PCs on the other end did wonders in engaging with the story, but there's always one....who takes it OOC to tell hell.

I guess we just have to put up with that as evil PC players huh?

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

The ones that anger me are the ones that have no business being there or that, as I said initially, argue unrelated and hence OOC knowledge into a plot. Or worse yet arrive, look, and run off to commit acts of violence with no RP at all.

Simply put they don't have to put anything into the plot but they pull the whole thing down for everyone else. I don't mean the one that started it, I mean everyone that has put time and effort into it. That is what my post was aimed at.

EDIT: I think the feeling of soundofastreams post had it down. Guess you just have to deal with it

This thread is chock full of truths.

Mago:
The default nature of society is Lawful/Neutral. This is true in reality and in most any fantasy setting you will come across. This is because of laws. Laws are in place in societies and 95% of people under rule will follow laws to avoid punishment. It is a small minority of people that will risk their freedom to endeavor to do something of an evil or unlawful nature. These are people who firmly believe that "getting ahead" can only be done by unlawful means, and they act as such.

I believe you ask too much when you say Amia should bend toward evil. It is a world of heroes. Why do you think creatures are generally referred to as "monsters"?

To all other evil:
The DM team is, sadly, completely correct on the role and efficacy of Amia evil. There is very little intelligent evil on Amia. We have all seen exceptions, and I have a HIGH amount of respect for those people who succeed. As someone who is playing a character who is endeavoring to be not necessarily "evil", but rather wisely unlawful, I can only hope to have half of the wherewithal that a select handful of evil players have shown. It is this that I strive for.

But it's true. If you think about it, "good" has a universal agenda that transcends faction or niche. They are to maintain law and largely, status quo. They are united by this ideal and yes, it is an ideal that is default in the world. As such, they largely act as a cohesive unit because it is not difficult for "neutral/good" people to spot obvious wrongdoings and rectify them.

Conversely, and unfortunately, "evil" does not have a universal ideal and "evil" agendas do not transcend these individual groups. Now, there are probably (I have no idea) in excess of 6 evil groups/factions. All work individually and all have a different idea of evil. They do NOT necessarily have the support of fellow evil-doers because, lets face it, wouldn't your goal as "evil" be to let others who might challenge your power fail?

The point? Evil lacks cohesiveness and, as such, will never be a real factor in Amia. However, should this ever change, and all of the various factions become one with a common goal, all bets are off. They would have more power than you have ever thought possible by evil players. Until this happens, accept you role when you log on. If you are evil with evil intent, you had better be incredibly smart or suffer the consequences.

Me? I would love to see a more evil presence on Amia. But we all know it will never happen as long as there is such rampant "Chaotic Stupid" and as long as evil acts independent of its evil counterparts. The pressure is on all of those "evils" who wish to have an impact. Until we wisen up, we lose.

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Direct Connect spamming champion two years running.
"The pointer fingers are insured"

I'm sorry I have to thank Yoss because compliments are always fresh and new to me...heh.

Look, I'm not trying to say Amia is a bad server or the DMs are bad or anything like that, far from it.

If Amia wasn't the best server around, I wouldn't even be here, EMPHATICALLY raising my points.....I'd be somewhere else.

Just remember. I'm only raising points, not trying to point out bad DMing and such. Sometimes though I feel like maybe the way I'm saying it puts DMs or others on the offensive and I'm sorry.

I'm not askin the DMs to change the whole of Amia or anything. I'm saying the whole of Amia should change, albeit little by little, and because of player actions MORE than anything else. It will make the world persistent as ever, which is the real point when concerning the whole Evil vs Good thing.

I would be happy with just less OOC in general. Hell, I'd be satisfied with no OOC.

When I was a player I never chatted with DMs, and I barely talked OOC to other players. I kind of like to try to keep it this way. I get told I'm an aloof bastard and that I give off a possible vibe of elitism by not really communicating OOC'ly, but it is only because I really enjoy the mystique of the IC and I don't want it mixed up with the OOC.

As a player, I liked to just DO, and the only time I ever OOC'ly announced anything I might be planning on doing was moments before I planned on doing it, in a polite message to the DM channel. Sometimes I might give a reason as to why. Sometimes not.

"I am speaking with Franton right now. I have an urgent message for the Duke that he may be interested in hearing, if he is available. If not, I will leave a message." And I got to talk to him.

"Hello, DM. I am standing on the docks in Cordor looking out at the strange, discolored water. I would like to make a Lore check to try to determine what I might understand about the strange occurrences." And that is how I knew what the hell Tarkuul was before it ever rose.

That was about the extent of my OOC communication with the DM team.

Yes, there were times when other players were being jackasses. Assholes. Jerks. But I never complained about them to anyone. Nor did I ever say anything to them at all. OOC, I was completely quiet and just remained IC.

My favorite example of this is my first week in the server, back in Old Cordor when PvP was still possible everywhere (a little bit before it got set to no PvP, I believe). I saw PCs catching n00bs coming off the boat and PvP'ing them with very shoddy RP, imo. I didn't say anything to a DM. Never complained. They spotted me. I screamed and ran. They chased me. Claimed I was a thief. The guards believed them, and a bunch of bored adventurers got involved, chased me also, shot me while I was running, and I died (this was Yossarin, btw, which was very amusing to me). Then raised me, asked me what I'd stolen.

I said, "Well...I understand the situation, but I think I should speak about this to my public defender." I GAVE THOSE EVIL PCs a beautiful reaction even to their shoddy RP by being intimidated enough by their presence in the place of a guard that I did not even try to accuse them of doing what they were doing, but instead, played the PC who was actually cowed...actually intimidated...by someone else.

Hunar arrested me. Took me to jail. Put me in a cell, where I sat for five or ten minutes alone. Came back. Asked my story. I told him, and at first he said IC'ly, "What the hell?! Why didn't you tell me?!" And I told him because I was scared and I knew if I talked they'd probably kill him and then kill me. Even though he was like lvl 30 and they were probably...maybe lvl 5.

These days, this is the scenario that would have most players SCREAMING OOC to anyone and everyone, but even though they were obvious griefers, I turned their griefing into something I could work with without ever going OOC. And I felt good about that.

Wow, this post sure turned into me bragging about myself. But regardless, I just think adopting a personal "don't ever say anything OOC to anyone" policy except when you have to (in terms of asking a DM to assist for something IC or RP-based) worked well for me.

Inspiration! It brings tears to my eyes.. *sob*

I actually stay IC as soon as I jump in game. I only now go OOC for a few reasons, almost always in tells:

When a player I know says hi, I usually type in tells "Sup" in return. If they engage me in tells I will not ignore them.

When I need a DM for something. Depending on what it is I sometimes am hesitant.

Most times I go OOC is because someone else has gone OOC and so now I have to break away from my character( I really hate doing it) and explain and/or defend my stance.

At one point I was RPing in the forest. Yes , we all know evil is to be KOS in te forest but evil is a point of view so... One elf wanted me dead, another was my close friend. In the end I was allowed to stay with the knowledge that my elven friend was also a "Guard".

The elf who wanted me dead went OOC and flew into a tirade of really foul language. Instead of going OOC because honestly...I really hate it...I sighed and stalked off out of the forest to avoid more needless negativity.

In the end the RP continued, and I hope though still that the DMs let his tirade slide, because sometimes people do get frustrated, so I for one can't really cast stones.....not at all.

This is said in jest ...I wonder what would happen if Evil on Amia went on strike? What would happen if all Evil PC's went unplayed for a month & only Good & Neutrals were being played?

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YANKEE ROSE
-----------------

There would be a lot of weddings, a bunch of babies, and a few festivals. other than that, nothing.

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words

---

Unless it is magical fire will the tieflings survive!

Mahaha!

So many people ignore that fact that tieflings are almost immune to normal fire.

It causes d6 damage, they got 5/- fire DR. 1 in 6 rolls will cause damage, taken in the average hp will that be at least 140 - 400 rounds where you need to roll 6's. Multiply it and you got a loooot of time for them burning. The fire will go out before and the ropes may burn.
If they got a regeneration ring, even worse, if they have a ring with 10 fire resist... pity.

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"Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong."
"I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder."

I see some pretty evil stuff from good charries. I'm sure the slack would be picked up.

That is if you consider cheating on your spouse or significant other, murder, random acts of violence, child abandonment and lying..."Evil"

Cuz I do hehe.

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We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.

At this stage I would like to falg up Yurrel for being one of the best portrayers of what I consider to be real evil.

And by real evil I mean the sort that does not have to involve PvP or killing anyone. It is that kind of insiduous dark nature that plays on the minds of other characters.
The kind that forces them into doing things that they would never even dream of doing in the cold light of day.

This to me is real evil, the manipulation and abuse of the mind that isnt just about casting fancy spells but the careful and deliberate maipulation of events to create a desired effect.

Having said that ... I expect this post to pass largely ignored, but I feel better for having had my say on it.

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Siggy by Maryn

It's not really fair for Yossarin to be defending himself like this when he's actually the only DM who's ever helped my evil PC and faction get a leg up on Amia. Specifically the Black Flag in South Cordor. But there were other DMs who though the Flag in South Cordor being repeatedly and openly criminal made Cordor look impotent and unrealistic, and wanted us out. To those DMs credit they never actually said "get out," but made it bad enough for the Flag that we eventually just left of our own accord. I don't actually speak for the Flag, but that's pretty much what happened.

So the evil part of Cordor was devoid of evil PCs for about ten minutes, until another faction moved in and got majorly reamed by unbeatable NPC guards, and I think maybe banned from Cordor altogether. So the evil part of Cordor was devoid again of PCs for another ten minutes, and now I think other evil factions are going to try to move in now. This is just hearsay, and IC information that would be pretty widely known to Cordorians.

I guess what I'm saying is that there's an area with a tacit invitation to be evil (NPC goons, thugs, prostitutes, shady characters, fences, etc.) but PCs being evil there is unsustainable because while some DMs like it and try to make it work, others don't and try to make it not work, but one side outweighs the other, until (in my case) the evil PCs realize it's not worth it and take a hike.

Is there a problem with that? I don't know. But back to my main point, Yossarin is doing his best and really he shouldn't have to defend himself of anything.

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"When somebody headbutts, everybody looses."

Go Yoss, I think this is the bone of contention that every single person has and hates and anything else is to a degree just a symptom of this problem!

STOP FUCKING WHINGING OOC OVER THE TIME YOU STUBBED YOUR TOE WHEN THE BADDIE PUSHED YOU AGAINST THE DOOR FRAME.

I mean hot damn, I knew someone who did play intelligent evil, inclusive evil and fun evil. Admittedly we were drow, it's what we did, but fuck me if I'm telling you that honest to god, over 75% of the plans she even discussed with other players never left the drawing board because we were concerned about people taking it OOC, whinging about it, and bloody ruining it for everyone involved.

NEWSFLASH: JUST IN - YOU ARE NOT SUPERMAN, we all know this, we all admit it. So we play a fantasy roleplaying game.

NEWSFLASH: YOUR CHARACTER IS NOT SUPERMAN EITHER! - quit fucking fantasising...

I read the entire thread. I even cut and saved several posts I thought were intelligent (kudos to Mago, Incognitos, Tormak and Yossarin (x2)), but this one is for the entire playerbase.

The DM's are not here to hold your hand. Your character is not you. You need to learn to detach yourself from your character's viewpoint. Quit bitching OOC over the smallest thing. (And at the Risk of sounding like Corimar, who I always think sounds dreadfully patronishing when this phrase pops up..)

Role with the Fucking Punches

Cheers, thanks for reading, have a good night.

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Jys'zyne Do'larn

Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?

I think that was the main point of that, to which I agree. One needs to step back and not take things personally. If you're drow and you character's big whipped, you can't think "Boohoo she's picking on me" for example.

No one is their character, and no mater how much they might love them (<3 Amenia) the character is still fair game for every other character, and chances are there is no OOC motive behind it.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

Moshing Chris appends his patented stamp of approval to Numbers post.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

I don't know about you.. but when my evil girl goes off to picks fights, it's usally in some epic area with someone weilding a poncy piece of jewery called a silver dragon, or a poofy pink pansy looking one called an prismatic, not running into area's where groups are hunting spiders or trolls or other low creatures because I know they will be weak there.. I thin that is what makes evil look bad

when they just loose the ettiquitte all together, as much as I would love to stand one area out of ultrinin as Rith buffed to the hills in her palidhoom greatness, I seem not to. maybe it goes both way.. but I believe there is an rp ettiquette that goes first, don't pick on someone 5 levels lowers on amia, mainly because there is such a gap.

And people going to get a hero I think is a valid option. even if it is a holy hit squad. or just one damn arch mage.

but in closing.. Maybe the players need to look at what they do.. and how that negetively reacts as evil/good as a whole before they start complaining. my self included in that actually I'm no angel and I am a complete jack ass sometimes.

*nods* I have to agree with a lot of the more recent posts. Players need to be able to look at their own actions and put themselves in other folks shoes.

I know for a fact of late, I've not put as much into my other primary evil character as I ought, but at the same time I also have been trying to figure out something they can do as well.

Honestly, a well planned plot is difficult as even the best of plans , as said before does NOT survive contact with your enemy.

Since everything is in some way related to a movie in my world...Why not try emulating some of the more dastardly villains of our time who were, in most cases born to lose? Goofy evil, serious evil, clutsy evil, confused evil, tragic evil....it's a delicious buffet!

Bruce the Shark
Michael Corleone
Emperor Ming
The Evil Queens of Disney (and no I don't mean Eisner and Micky)
Tyler Durden
Jack Torrence
Dick Dastardly
Muttly
Yosemite Sam
Magneto
Catwoman
Hannibal Lechter
Lo Pan
Gollum
Norman Bates
Annie Wilkes
Bonnie!
Clyde!

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We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.

As you're putting cartoons in there Cherry, where is Wile E. Coyote?

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"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.

I've actually been inspired by an infamous evil character. Wonder which one that might be...

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Darthion Illys

Join the Banites!

Jar Jar Binks? That explains the armoured eyestalks on Darthion's helm

Stop encouraging people to behave like jerks.

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Jys'zyne Do'larn

Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?

Do de do

Hello everyone. 'jes', now where did I put that rubber stamp of approval, oh yes here it is.

Mago *stamps*
Yossarrin *stamps*
Geld had some points too, even if hidden in passion.
Infact I'm going to approval stamp everyone in the first 3 pages with over 1 line of text per post.

you are on the huggle list, the logical arguments gave me such hope for the forums, keep it up no matter who discourages you, dm's or otherwise.

Disclaimer: This is probably the most passionate thing I've ever typed on the forums, but months of frustration over the issue and having the solution already in broad daylight threw me a little.

I consider this issue to be at least Half, 50%+, of the 'hairline cracks in the diamond that is Amia'.

Ahem, right, on to business:

The evil good align point.

The playerbase will not generally shift as a majority to evil because as stated in this topic people in real life are not generally going to be evil or play evil as people in RL generally follow the RL modern trends, such as having certain rights ectect and will never think to break them, even in a game. (this does not include the evil NPC based environment that is the Underdark, the underdark is and will probably always be a minority however)

So torrmy's point that the player base will shift to evil and all will be stagnant and the same if environment is shifted to majoirty NPC enviormental evil: false. Playerbase will basically always remain as the majority being neutral/good align in numbers over evil. Because In Real Life The Majority Is Following Society's Laws And They Transfer What They Know From Real Life To The Game. Now then that being said if a evil tyrannical dictator takes over the world and dominates everyone and changes the laws to something evil in real life... the playerbase on amia may switch to an evil player-base because then their real life values have also shifted...I hope this doesn't happen in real life, but it's a simple condition that would need to be met for Tormak's theory to become true...not likly.

That being said, ever wonder why the nwn campaigns are set up the way they are?!?!?

Oh gosh the suspense is killing me, the good guy hero 'Minority' goes out into the bad corrupt evil 'Majority' world and Fights To Make It Better, hence the hero title. The Environment Was Evil, and the Player was the Hero, and they Had The Most Fun over any other type of environment, and felt they had made a change in the world by bringing in some hope/light/peace ectectect. (OR THEY WOULD HAVE MADE IT A DIFFERENT Way/GAME) This trend is 'EVERYWHERE' pick a roleplay game, tell me how it's set up, find one where the setting is constantly peaceful and the good guys always win, find one where there's an army of good guys to snuff out the bad guys 24/7 and where the bad guys only win 0-30% of the time, then tell me who watches/reads/plays that movie/book/game.

...oh wait, that's amia's current state. Oh dear, somethings wrong. That setting is not set to the 'fun' setting but the 'boring' setting, oh where's that remote control at humm. Oh there it is, the Dm's are hiding it under the unbalanced game environment system ohh dear the bad guys have no popular place to set up, all the evil is already extinguished by the vast ammount of good aligned epic level player base majority and gotten bored because they simply have nothing to do but giggle-poke in their peaceful tolerant cities. *tear* A good aligned character wouldn't start trouble unless they weren't entirely good, which leaves the SOLE responsibility of mixing things up for the server/changing things in the hands of the evil players. (exception is eternal order) And then when they try to change something they are Immediately discouraged by the players IC and OOC because oh noes pvp causes ooc problems because said hero didn't save the day for the 394893485 day in a row, how sad, they must have broken a server rule when good doesn't automatically win, right? ..emphatic NO.

*takes a breath* Ahh well now that all that frustration is off my shoulders let's get to fixing the problem.

In a fun game...

1. Good aligned people need some sort of evil to crush every other day, and the PC's evils just don't keep up, it's just simple math.

2. The world-set of Amia is set up to favor the good aligned people, because they are the majority, how unfortunate, no need to guess why the good aligned people are so bored. Are you favoring the IC characters?? ...it's not in the favor of the actual 'ooc' people who play them...

3. So let's see our equation here.

Let's say, ohhh 70% of the server is good/neutral aligned (that's generous)

Good aligned:
Pc's 7 points (70%)

Evil Aligned:
3 points (30%)

Npc's are currently matched by the DM's to fit the playerbase:

Good Aligned:
NPC's 7 points (70%)

Evil Aligned:
3 points. (30%)

Oh Dear the score is 14 to 6, good guys in the lead. ...that leads to alot of bored people on the good side.

So only 42% of the good guys npc's and Pc's are getting their evil pc smashing in and saving the day, and that's if they even find/locate the evil ones...which brings our number down considerably.

Let's see, on Amia, ratio of evil-aligned people in hiding to people not...80-90% hiding from the swarms of good aligned Npc's(DM's) and Pc's.

10-20% of the 6 points total for evil overall.
.6 - 1.2

Good isn't hiding anything so it's still at 14 points, only the hunting of evil ratio gives .6-1.2

.6/14 = .0428 1.2/14 = .085

carry the decimal place and we get.

4.28%-8.5% of the good guys are getting enough visible evil to smash from the evil aligned PC's.

Oh dear, that means the rest of them are bored and have to giggle-poke just to stop themselves from hitting the exit game button.

I smell imbalance, now that being said the hidden evils do attribute, in the long run, something for the good smitter's to do which only raises our percentage a little due to the frequency they have plots involving a large public scale in which involves good-aligned interaction.

I would be dearly surprised if the percentage hit over 15%.

...so that leaves the question, what pray tell is the other 85% of the server doing...do we really have a giggle-poke rate that high?

Factor in factions like the eternal order and we raise our interest, our percent, and our needed change...but they can only add so much.

Solution?

...it's not a hidden one, it's not hard to guess either, it's been said and overlooked.

The equation needs more points to the evil for good to smash side of things, given the playerbase is a very constant good/neutral majority due to society.

So the only other thing to do is increase the amount of Evil-aligned Npc's and create an environment where the good aligned people can work to smash not only the small majority of publicly known evil PC's, but work ICly and RP to over-throw/kill/ect an Evil Align NPC group/person/faction/city. Then oooh my gosh they will have something to do besides giggle-poke! *gasp*..and the evil pc's in hiding will have something to do, which is try to stop the good-aligned smashers from smashing whatever it is, or take the opportunity as a distraction to get something else evil done, which causes Change, and something else for the good-align's to fix, yes, love the word change in game settings, Amia will die without change over time. Game's need to remain interesting over the long-haul or someone simply gets a new game to play, with a new evil/good to smash, and a new storyline where they save/change the day. (and instead of the same ole evil PC there can be changing Evil NPC's that actually die in the end, and the players make an actual change! *gasp*)

Typically (In the beginning) good causes the change in a plotline (given a evil/bad environment), then once the day is saved something else comes along to ruin it (the 'second' game), and then the good aligned character has something else to do again and try to make it right again, and it goes back and forth and back and forth...amia has the fat good-aligne'd kid hogging the spot-light because people complain when their not constantly saving the day, but it is necessary they loose once in awhile so they have something to do the next day to 'make it right again' instead of perpetual peacefulness resulting in never ending giggle-poking.

Reguards,
One who also cares.

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Night is just another day without light.

I kind of got a dose of death by percentages there but before I switched off, I did get one point that you made that doesn't bear out in practice. There's quite a large underdark crowd on both Amia and Arelith (Arelith more so because its basically Arelith B). Technically, they're the 'minority' but there are still significant numbers not to design only for the surface lands...

That is in the Underdark 90% of the population base -is- Evil.

Shall I state that again, 90%+

Thus, its a land of evilums.

Now with the new Underdark on B and the Underdark on A, we should have enough of a 'space' to call our own and then i think a lot of evilums who play will enjoy their experience on Amia a lot more (based, upon the fun times I had playing on Arelith's B and Amia's A Underdarks already).

It still will mean when you go up to the surface world, you'll be beaten and whipped by the majority if you're not careful but that's probably how it should be in this case.

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

I'm trying out evil myself now, and I will admit I do find it extremely hard. I am just conditioned to playing video games as the hero, always wanting to solve the problems rather than being them.

Anyways, one problem I find is to distinguish my excellent evil RP from mindless griefing. Because your spree of evil actions has to start somewhere and because evil actions bring no short-term benefit per say, you risk your target thinking that you are subjecting them to pointless, undeserved harassment. But where is the evilness if it's deserved?

I think you just have to take the plunge into risky business.

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To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!

---

Or, for example, a person who is evil in the same sense that a ruthless businessman in the modern day might be called evil. He may not be a member of a dark cult, or secretly kill people with chainsaws, or drink the blood of infants... he might just rationally pursue social and material success, without caring how it affects other people.

That kind of person could be known to be evil without the conclusion being "...and so we smite him with our swords!" Since sure, he's a !@#$, but there's no law against evicting orphans in the dead of winter. Or if he is found guilty of a crime, it's probably some white-collar crime with no worse punishment than a fine and minimal jail time.

As far as the "Can't kill them for that kind of evil" goes I say wanna bet? I've been killed plenty of times for committing ruthless but not categorically evil acts. Four that I can remember off the top of my head. If people think their cause is righteous they will find a reason.

Breaking down the numbers to say that 'X%' of the server is 'good' and 'X%' is 'evil' is nonsensical and flawed, as 'X%' of the server (do you see what I did there?) just doesn't play consistently (or maybe better phrased as not 'true to their alignment', if you want to put it like that)

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"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.

My personal opinion is that I'll like to see old school racial hatred/prejudice. Not necessarily good vs evil.

Elf vs Orc/human?

Elf/human vs gobins/monstrous races.

Tieflings might not fall under open hostility but i never fail to wonder why am I forced to metagame that the goblin i meet is a PC and not slay it on sight etc.

Its just that Im of the opinion that when someone chooses to play a monstrous race, they should take the good and the bad with it. One of the "bad" is not mingling with the cultured human or elven civilisations and being forced to make others accept you instead of them automatically treating you neutrally cos they know youre a PC.

Just my two cents =P

I disagree. The most infamous evil characters within popular culture are also among the best to be inspired by. There's a reason to why they're so infamous, after all.


A couple of others I would add to the list of typical evil villains:

Darth Sidious (Emperor Palpatine)
Sauron
Saruman
Freddy Krueger
Max Cady (in Cape Fear)
Jigsaw
The Joker (Duh-duh-duh Batman!)
John Doe (Se7en)
Alex Delarge (Clockwork Orange)
Damien (The Omen)
The Terminator
Agent Smith
Brick Top (Snatch)
Mr Hyde

EDIT: Oh noes. Replies were made before I could add the list of other evil villains.

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Darthion Illys

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I believe the point that is trying to be made is that the ones that are really open are also the ones that the most people draw inspiration from ... maybe look deeper into more bad guys (Dracula + Nosferatu come to mind ).

Edit: I am not saying don't draw inspiration from popular fiction (in fact I'm not endorsing Phaernun's post at all), merely suggesting bad guys that may not be considered when people think of evil straight down the Hollywod aisle.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

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I am somewhat less than totally articulate at the moment: I didn't mean that there isn't any character that would want to kill you for that. But I would consider such acts to contrary to rule of law, and can imagine many good-aligned characters whose moral compasses would be against such acts.

Take a situation where a merchant was hoarding food during a famine. My lawful good cleric of Tyr would not consider that grounds to murder them. If she saw people attacking the merchant she would try to prevent them (regardless of whether the attack was in a city or in the wilderness), with steel if necessary. If the merchant was murdered in Kohlingen and the guards turned a blind eye, she would be furious, and prosecute the case herself if no one else would.

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I love amia.

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"Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."

[Kegs] Angry Dwarf
[Akly] Angry Halfling

Shhh... They needn't know.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

Llewellyn Moss from No Country for Old Men. Good? Evil? Morally Grey? I think he's a nice example of someone out for themselves.

Anton what'shisname.. 'Sugar'. He's Amian evil. Cold, calculating psychopathic boring, obvious, target evil.

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Jys'zyne Do'larn

Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?

Going on a tangent, I found it funny how none of the people who had the motivation to let us know about that sort of stuff ever told us IC. Maybe they assumed that our characters all knew and were turning a blind eye, but all the allegations that reached us were so hopelessly vague that the Eternal Order was able to refute them by saying, "That's just a rumor."

I -did- follow up on this IC several times (witnessing interrogations first-hand, asking people who had been held by the Eternal Order about their treatment) but was never able to find someone who described treatment that amounted to torture or who knew a specific person who had received such treatment.

I don't think Darth Vader is a good example. A Death Star is way more subtle then most of the bad guys around here.

Actually some do it because they are thinking (consciously or subconsciously) 'Oooo...you are playing a goodie......therefore if I proclaim my evil, I will make you as a player feel uncomfortable'

Fortunately, those are few and don't seem to last long here. More common are those who do it so the goodies will follow them outside and a fight can be had...... either for the ebil player to show what an 'uberpwnz' build he is, or sometimes just to think they can make someone else react.

Sad but true.

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"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.

personally, sephiroth is THE most evil bad ass known to human kind, he's half human half something else, melee nigh unstopable and magic abilitys in the epic range (im comparing FF7 to DnD bare with me lol) he manipulates the characters to the point of complete insanity, see's everyone as pitifully weak and inferior to his whole "make earth his vessel" scheme (dirge of cerberus shows how that would have played out, dark game) and to top it all (spoiler ahead) he isn't even alive while hes doing all that until he makes could revive him with superior psychic powers, after murdering (one of, technically zack's..) his birds.

Darth vader is dust comparing, plus obi wan was always better and only let him kill him for specific reasons I forget right now. "the emporer" is pitiful IMO except the power he has, his weakness is being caught off guard as he squirms like a fish or something. (SW episode 3)

Hehe

Actually I'd say that a dead star might be more subtle than a few (good, bad or neutral)

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"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.

just thought i add point to this, i love to play evil chars but it is damn hard at times when you try to plan something without having someone call a high lvl friend in to murder you or cause alot of ooc stuff.

as few people already said, i think it help if evil chars stop running around shouting out about their evil deeds until they ready for the reactions that it will bring, also i hate the bloody way nearly every evil person runs around in bloody black or dark red with evil helmets...even if you not saying something you can nearly give away your alignment due to big spiky armor and skull mask..

they should just try fit in and not run around showing world look at me wearing my evil armor, im evil im gonna rob or hurt you, bah how many people would you see in real life or fantasy run around in area's controlled by so called good people, blatantly showing and saying they evil...im not saying everyone gotta be rogues..just dont go flauting to world untill you and your evil friends ready to kick some goody 2shoes ass

p.s. hopefully evil will rule rule amia even for few days be nice, its makes me smile 2 see some destruction and chaos in peoples orderly lives

. . . . .

I'm not even going to dignify this post with a proper thought out response.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Must... avoid... Star Wars... nerd-rage rant...

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I have a large seashell collection which I keep scattered on the beaches all over the world. Maybe you've seen it.

I think those ones are heading a tad too off topic ...

As far as being bad guys goes, it is rather obvious you're going to be caught when you compare the size of your sacks of baby heads in the middle of the city. Come to Ultrinnan - we don't need that kind of show because everyone knows that everyone else is evil.

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