AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Death to carebears!

555444333 wrote:

Death to carebears!

Definitely QFT.

Hardcore PvPing since UO was released in '97 and I was only 10 years old.

Lascivar wrote:

Nekhy wrote:

Well, you are right, that there are no forced PvP consequences on Amia. PvE is another matter.

I'd subject my characters to perma-death from PvP if there was a decent enough storyline to it.. Permanent mutilation also. (This doesn't always have to be gorey, I just mean retaining scars from confrontations.)

This pretty much sums it up. "If there was a decent enough storyline." When deciding policy for the whole server, we cannot make a comprehensive list of RP and storylines that are "decent enough" to force consequences. Because we cannot specify which incidents are fair play and which aren't, we have a rule that covers all situations but does not prohibit consequences accepted willingly.

If one needs a rule to force any consequences on the PCs, one's misunderstood the whole idea of RP. We're here to do it willingly and on our own initiative, after all. All that's needed is both parties being good sports, rules have very little to do with it.

As I said, no forced PvP consequences. Every player is allowed to subject their character to whatever consequences they want, as long as it's not against the server rules. You could make an agreement that when you are killed, you can be looted etc. That's all very well, if it floats your boat.

Others are allowed to do otherwise, be carebears or whatever people like to call them.

That's very much the core idea of Amia, that you can play it as you like, as long as you respect other players' right to do the same.

Deranis goes into the Underdark often enough for two reasons.. First, he likes to stir up trouble with the Drow, and the second is he likes to see how far he can get with conversation with some, while acting dumb and pretending not to know it's their domain sometimes.

I send Deranis into the Underdark, as a player, because I know they're allowed to PK him on sight, without really so much as having to say a word, and I love that fact my stomach gets twisted a little like that because of the risk.

IronAngel wrote:

This pretty much sums it up. "If there was a decent enough storyline." When deciding policy for the whole server, we cannot make a comprehensive list of RP and storylines that are "decent enough" to force consequences. Because we cannot specify which incidents are fair play and which aren't, we have a rule that covers all situations but does not prohibit consequences accepted willingly.

If one needs a rule to force any consequences on the PCs, one's misunderstood the whole idea of RP. We're here to do it willingly and on our own initiative, after all. All that's needed is both parties being good sports, rules have very little to do with it.

Hah, alrighty I guess I needa make an example of what I meant:

With what I wrote above.. 'Decent enough storyline' means someone who acts like Ted did, in my earlier example, wouldn't get the time of day from me in RP.. I just mess with them for fun.

If Deranis actually got captured, in the UD, tortured and sacrificed, and his death was RP'd out well.. I'd allow it to be permanent.

So far though he's managed to talk his way out of every situation, and on one odd occasion, was released due to very funny circumstances.

Um, everything I said still applies 100%. Though I'm not sure if you're even refuting it?

I'm with Kjetta on this one. I would like to see less babysitting and a little more freedom myself but I accept that the rules are what they are. It's the rules set forth by the DM team as a general agreement and thats that. This isn't a public street kids, it's a server owned by someone and people are picked to run it and they have the right to make the rules as they see fit. Just like you have the right to log off the server and find another one more to your liking if things don't float your boat.

With that said, there's nothing wrong with discussing the rules, why they are and why the should or shouldn't be. I see both sides of the argument, personally, but hey, bite the bullet. If people want to OOC hunt, not that I agree with OOC hunts at all, just let them. Just because some people aren't willing to roll with the punches of RP doesn't mean everyone won't. If I run into something like that, I would either leave and go elsewhere, fight or leave and find another way in. But thats just me, some people don't want to be bothered with RP they haven't agreed to, no matter if the RP is horrible or amazing.

It's fine to discuss the rules, and sometimes it can be healthy. I'm open to suggestions if someone believes they have a better rule to replace the current one. I'm sure the other DMs will read and consider such ideas, too. As of yet, I've seen no suggestion that covers the major problems, though.

how about only allowing blockades in an area where people within your level range hunt (within 5)

I'd be highly opposed to splitting up players in level categories even more than the hunting areas already do. There's absolutely no need to disallow interaction with other levels. Sometimes it gives you easy prey, sometimes you get your ass kicked.

Last edited by Pony on Tue, Nov 05 2019, 14:35 PM, edited 1 time in total.

As a vetran Highwayman/Evil type.. can tell you this.
Your doing it wrong if anyone walks away unhappy about the encounter.
Just because your charries an ass doesn't mean you have to be..

nuff said.

IronAngel wrote:

Um, everything I said still applies 100%. Though I'm not sure if you're even refuting it?

Nah, I wasn't refuting it.. I was simply stating that I have few exceptions to allowing a permanent death to my character, unless I feel like the person I'm RPing with didn't put effort into their RP, in an overly obvious fashion.

The other simple and obvious exception is the chance of being revived = Respawn. If someone kills my character in an area where the body may be easily recovered by a traveler, then I simply hit respawn and I'm on my merry way. Anything beyond that, my character would need a cleric's True Resurrection to be brought back if someone diced up his corpse etc.. But even then the body would have to be somewhere that's capable of being found.

Har, Iron I got a rule for you.

'We expect you to accept events with good grace whether things go your way or not.'

IT'S JUST A GAME GUYS

Can we ban Pridegaming?

That rule should be, and is, the primary rule of playing online. Amia is no different. And if you trust your common sense, it's all you need to worry about. Rules need to be specified to those who still don't get it, those who have problems with common sense and fair play. Like I've stressed several times in this topic, you can get by on Amia just fine without our "restrictive" rules having any impact on your game. I, for one, never had to worry about PvP, twinking or hunting area rules for my own part. And I'm not famous for my common sense or agreeability. If I can do it, I do expect that others can do it too.

Would you want to be the DM investigating reports and judging who was griefing, who was uncool out of ignorance and who was just misunderstood, and issuing punishments for days-old transgressions after which the offenders have already repeated the crime half a dozen times before we ever get to them? Or the new player who has no idea if he's just been victim to griefing or merely a participant in an established server custom, because there's no rules to refer to, for that matter?

Well, you like to be different, so I guess you might. I wouldn't, though!

Just cos we both know the rule doesn't mean anyone else does. As applied to the server, it is patent common sense is not common at all, the major issue being people aren't certain enough of themselves.

You should be in character at all times. Your actions are in character, I don't think there -should- be a difference of consequences from action between a DM event, and 'normal' RP on Amia. If a DM sees something and thinks IC consequences should happen, they should. Things happen in life that we can not control, and I feel they should happen RP wise, in Amia.

These type of situations use to happen a lot more often when the server was younger, I understand that the DM's also have a rough job with players complaining sometimes about the happenings to their PCs as a result of an unforseen conclusion.

I have decided I would like to start a volunteer post where a player by signing it basically gives 'waiver' for the DMs to have free reign with their PCs. I trust in the staff. I think others should too. This isn't a arse kissing post. This is something that's been on my mind for over a year.

To me, playing a character and not giving into whatever the fates have in store for their future because -you- feel the need to fully control every aspect of its being limits the experience of playing that character, because it limits it to only your mind, instead of many.

I don't know if the staff would be keen on the idea. I am though.

Dwagin wrote:

I have decided I would like to start a volunteer post where a player by signing it basically gives 'waiver' for the DMs to have free reign with their PCs.

There shouldn't be a need for such a 'waiver', if you don't want a higher power messing with the world you're in, you're playing the wrong game.

Jan wrote:

Dwagin wrote:

I have decided I would like to start a volunteer post where a player by signing it basically gives 'waiver' for the DMs to have free reign with their PCs.

There shouldn't be a need for such a 'waiver', if you don't want a higher power messing with the world you're in, you're playing the wrong game.

Well I can't speak for the DM team on how such a thing would be received or if truly required, but from the air of the culture of Amia I do believe such a thing is required if a player is interested in such things.

The only things I am aware of where DM's operate in the fashion you describe, other than perhaps falling paladins for gross violations of code, is during DM events. I'd rather see it more common-place, even if its small things, than it currently is.

I feel that such a waiver would allow for DM's to more readily note that it is okay to be a little more 'risky' or give them 'nudges' with a player's character(s), because they've given them leave to do so.

I've said it before,and I'll say it again:
If a DM wants to randomly pick on one of my characters, he can go right ahead (I had one spawn tonnes o spiders around a drow party once *gumble*

)

Frankly, I'll mess with you whether or not you really want to be messed with... and I don't mean that in a "you are my pawns" way, I man it in a "you are an existing character in a living world" way.

Dwagin wrote:

I have decided I would like to start a volunteer post where a player by signing it basically gives 'waiver' for the DMs to have free reign with their PCs.

Do it.

Seriously... do it.

TormakSaber wrote:

Frankly, I'll mess with you whether or not you really want to be messed with... and I don't mean that in a "you are my pawns" way, I man it in a "you are an existing character in a living world" way.

I'd like to be able to enable the entire DM staff to feel that way if they do not, or at least let them know that it's okay to.

Sometimes change in situations such as that can boil over into reprisals. I was simply trying to reach out to any who may be shy, to try such things with this idea, to say Hey, there's at least these folks that are willing to let you try out your ideas with.

I think it is every bit as important for players to do what they can to keep the game enjoyable for everyone, including their Evil Overlords. We're all people, and everyone likes to have fun, and that does take a bit of understanding.

I think most DMs start with the assumption characters are "free game" for us to mess with, keeping in mind to give constructive challenges instead of stomping them to the ground for the fun of it. Well, what is "challenging" and what is "stomping" are naturally subjective measures...

If a player reacts negatively, I personally earmark them for later interaction, or lack-of-interaction. I won't be pushing it if my attention isn't welcome. Dunno how others do it, so this isn't speaking for the staff, but there's at least one unwritten "negative list" in existence. In my subconscious, that is.

My guess is, that most DMs don't need a list of characters to mess with. They simply need good chances and situations where to mess with the characters (at least that applies to me), and those aren't always as plentiful as we'd all hope.

I do think a list of players willing to give their characters for external influence would benefit the other players. It might give a kind of "Hey, I'm doing this and I'm loving it! You should try it, too! It's good for you!" message to those, who'd otherwise react negatively to unexpected DM attention.

I'd like to feedback the experiences we've had over the last week or so. Our little faction has, on average, been sacrificing one PC per day. All the RP on average has been absolutely brilliant and most of the players we've had the pleasure of interaction with, have been top notch.

I think most players are learning not to be too carebearish anymore. The culture seems to be changing. So that is very good.

Next, there are players who've never had to experience the horrid feeling of being captured and sacrificied. Usually, those players are quite standoffish ooc and tend to god emote IC. One of my faction members stated in a tell, "why do they always seem to have superhuman powers?" Having done a similar thing in the past when I was new to such captured, graphically tortured and the like RP, I can actually understand this natural reaction. Oh by the way, our faction -never- goes too graphic. We prefer to use suspense horror, leaving it to people's imaginations instead.

Now, I am of the opinion that if we were to go back to the same player a few days later and got a chance to re-enact the scene, things might go more smoothly. I'm thinking that people have a 'sacrifice virginity' to lose before they become better at victim roleplay. Being a victim RP is quite difficult. Your superhero is no longer the superhero, but now, the helpless downtrodden.

Switching roles from one to the other isn't easy. I think people who do assassinations, roadblocks, saccy's and other manner of things need to be patient with these 'superhero' mentality based players. However, that said, you still need to PvP them, kill them, saccy them, rob them, whatever. Every player needs to be a victim at least once or twice to realise, as a victim, you too have a creative role to play in the story.

In my own faction, everyone must be a 'victim' on entry. Yep, they get to sacrifice themselves...both IC and OOC they learn from day one what the receiving end is like, so that OOC'ly they understand both roles thoroughly. We usually always recommend our victims for a DC, because, victim RP is tough going and deserves a recommendation.

So in a nutshell, players need to 'learn' to be victims and what the RP involves. Its not something that comes easily to those used to being the superhero all the time.

"Players need to 'learn' to be victims"...

... so, soundofastream, when do I get to sacrifice your PC?

Care to elaborate on why you think players need to learn to be victims?

Mr Mago wrote:

"Players need to 'learn' to be victims"...

... so, soundofastream, when do I get to sacrifice your PC?

Care to elaborate on why you think players need to learn to be victims?

My own pc's have been subject to many such actions from other characters. The most recent one being Halen and Jhaelryna doing things to toon ilivarra. You can ask them for graphic gory details...

Players need to learn to be victims because, one needs to understand how to lose and rp it well, just as much as one needs to understand how to win. That's the duality of a system called PvP. Its also the duality of IC consequences. Cause and effect.

Unlike a Marvel comic, Amia's villains often as much, win as they do lose. A good rounded roleplayer can as much play the hero as they can the victim.

Receiver of consquences, perhaps, rather than victim.

I agree with what you're saying, I just think "victim" isn't the word for it.

You need to accept a loss, just as much as you embrace a win.

Doesn't make you a victim though. Just makes you a mature player.

Mr Mago wrote:

Receiver of consquences, perhaps, rather than victim.

I agree with what you're saying, I just think "victim" isn't the word for it.

You need to accept a loss, just as much as you embrace a win.

Doesn't make you a victim though. Just makes you a mature player.

Hmm I guess so, I'm just going off what happens to said PCs, they're Victims IC. OOC, a mature player is the correct term true.

Mr Mago wrote:

Receiver of consquences, perhaps, rather than victim.

I agree with what you're saying, I just think "victim" isn't the word for it.

You need to accept a loss, just as much as you embrace a win.

Doesn't make you a victim though. Just makes you a mature player.

Perhaps if the people who constantly ego-gamed took this, and their own, advice Amia would be a much better place.

Nekhy wrote:

As I said, no forced PvP consequences.
That's very much the core idea of Amia, that you can play it as you like, as long as you respect other players' right to do the same.

Interesting. So a character can go up to Darthion, call his mother a whore, tell him if he were not standing in the middle of Cordor he'd be tearing his head off...

And Darthion can't catch him heading north from the outskirts and beat him to a pulp after offering him the out of an apology?

I thought IC actions = IC repercussions?

And this isn't any type of a leading question.. I'm honestly trying to clarify this as it seems important.

Regards,

Quote:

Interesting. So a character can go up to Darthion, call his mother a whore, tell him if he were not standing in the middle of Cordor he'd be tearing his head off...

And Darthion can't catch him heading north from the outskirts and beat him to a pulp after offering him the out of an apology?

I thought IC actions = IC repercussions?

That is not a situation I was talking about. That's a consequence, that is PvP. I'm talking about consequences of getting PvP'd by someone, such as looting body to recover items or gold for real, abusing the body etc, being imprisoned for a longer time or anything that will have long-term effects on the character's story and/or the player's ability to enjoy the game. Stuff that is beyond reasonable to ask of another player for your sole entertainment (it should be for the victim's entertainment, too).

It's really simple in the end: any permanent or big change to a character cannot be forced by other players, but must happen with the consent of the target player. PvP with our penalties obviously isn't a big issue.

Awesome, thanks Mother Goose.

I wasn't trying to trap anyone, just wanted to make that point so people don't think they have a "get outta the crappy stuff you did while safe in Cordor" cards.

Appreciate your work.

Regards,

Just a little hint.

If your stopped by a blockade and you try run past it your getting get whacked.

Once that RP is over and you actually need to get past send them an OOC tell just saying I actually need to go through there. 9 times out of 10 you''ll be let through.

If however you just try run psat again three guesses what the response is going to be. And if you attack the people in the blockade for the love of god expect a IC response and an IC consquence.

Every action will have a reaction otherwise your metagaming in a sense.

I agree with the DMs to let the low characters have a single shred of dignity. When I first started I was run through the wringer, and I know through screenshots I could have had enough people punished. But I was new. I didn't know about screenshots. So in the end, those poeple got away with what they did. I surely wouldn't want the DMs ALLOWING that.......

Which leads to my second point. I HATE when someone asks to be a "good victim" or ANY other way to phrase it. My reason is this: Firstly, the person MAY ACTUALLY not like me, and therefore simply not want to RP with me.

Secondly, I MAY not want to RP with them.......at all. I maybe busy with friends getting ready to do something and I really do not want it interupted by this side RP.

Everyone has their own story...an not everyone wants to stop it for you kind people who ask for better victims. If you are so keen on that than play a lvl1 who never lvls and IS a victim.

Furthermore people only have so long TO PLAY, and thus should be able to hunt(yes hunt), RP, or NOT RP WITH YOU...as they see fit.

Instead of whining about people who don't WANT to play victims, why not give them an out....cause I can tell ou the MAIN WAY you can assure your victim won't want to play along AND WILL GO OOC, is when you take their out away.......

And someone's OUT being removed happens.....quite a lot.

The RP doesnt have to take hours, in the case of Highwaymen etc, there is an out - pay the gold, even if you just RP it, takes 2 minutes, if that.

No, no, they always get an OUT. The problem is, the arrogant (censored) don't take the way out, because, in their own minds as a player, their character is like SUPERMAN or CATGIRL.

Well, they're not. In the case where they -are- outnumbered/outgunned, they need to eat humble pie. In the case where the bored epics come along, wallop my butt, strip me naked, stab me repeatedly, paint me in red paint and dump my arse back on the doorstep of Ultrinnan, you don't hear me complaining. Afterall, the 'goodies' 'neutrals' have as much right to put evil in their rightful place.

We just ask for the same respect in return when you are the victim and not us.

Geld Yaztran wrote:

snip

RP Happens.

No such thing as an OOC hunt, in game.

Ignoring RP is tantamount to Metagaming, imo.

If someone does something you dislike but isn't against the rules, move on, its a big module. Plenty of places to RP in it.

If they're breaking the server rules screenshot it then PM it to a DM.

You must be given an out. If not, then you should report it and screenshot it. Now, those outs might be something your character's pride will not allow them to do. But ultimately these situations can not permanently end the life of your PC. Traumatic things happen, R with the P.

Geld Yaztran wrote:

And someone's OUT being removed happens.....quite a lot.

No, it's just not the "out" you wanted.

Life is like that, go figure.

And I'd have to agree with Dwagin... if you and a couple other characters are mulling about right outside of the no PvP section and another group comes across you, you can't just ignore them because "you only have limited time and can't be bothered to do any RP unless it's on your terms".

Get those friends, start up a module and play there. You'll get far less interruptions.

Regards,

Geld Yaztran wrote:

<snip>

What Dwagin and Frey said.

If you "don't have time to RP" with people you don't deem worthy, throw on an invis, HiP's or GS. In those cases, chances are, you might still be spotted. Oh well, roll with it, have fun, don't be a RP elitist. Or hell, just play single player or something. Saying that you only want to RP with your friends screams of arrogance and, frankly, you should do what Frey said, get your own private module going so you can RP with only those people you feel are worth your time. I don't mean to be rude, but this isn't the Sims, this is an RP D&D server, where we all interact freely and see what fun comes of it.

On the topic of roadblocks, I have a serious problem with the few I've seen, because they more or less are abusing a game mechanic - specifically, that the "roadblocks" I've seen have always been put up just past (ie/ within a couple character-lengths of) transitions.

What is my problem with that? Well, I don't know how many of you are full-on city dwellers, and how many have ever lived or travelled in or near a forest, but even when there is a clear path or road through a forest, it's NOT the ONLY way into an area of said forest. A few hundred metres to either side of said road/path could very easily get you unnoticed past any roadblocks set on a path. But not in Amia, or any NWN gameworld. Transitions exist only in the set place you put them, and the waypoint/door which you will load into an area at, is also a set certain area.

So my problem with any roadblock that is set up just past a transition point, is that chances are good I'd have noticed your roadblock long before I reached it, and chances are better, in a hostile land, that I'd backtrack out of sight, and take an alternate route through the woods, even if it's just a few hundred metres away. But in Amia, I can't do that. I can't even see that you have your roadblock, or are even in the area for that matter, until I transition in.

Obviously, if you have your roadblock set up in the middle of the amia forest zone, rather than at the transition, then this doesn't apply to you. But I personally have only seen such roadblocks, as I said, right at/near transitions.

Quote:

This draws back to the fact there's no consequences on the server.. I personally preferred Ultima Online style consequences on servers in which if you die, you lose -everything- on your character to a corpse. The people can choose to loot the body if they like, and if not, you can loot it when you're revived.

This ofcourse, isn't everyone's cup of tea.

That's part of the point right there, of such rules as Amia has. It allows people for whom it IS their cup of tea, to RP such consequences as they see fit. So, if you think a proper consequence when you die is to drop everything you own and start over wearing urchin rags to cover your private parts, you go right ahead and do that. There's trashbins all over the place if you died in the middle of a hunt area, and can't get back to that point, and I personally would be quite thrilled to run across someones entire inventory piled on the ground where they died, free for the taking.

I've never had that particular pleasure though (of finding all someone's inventory).

Now, earlier in the thread, someone said that many Highwayman rp'ers didn't find it enjoyable to put up roadblocks, because of how amia's rules apply. To those players I can only say, that perhaps that means you shouldn't BE playing a highwayman here then. Every player has the right to enjoy themselves, but not at the expense of another player. So if you can't enjoy doing something, because of that simple rule, then you shouldn't do it. Leave that sort of rp for those players who CAN enjoy it, while working within the rules. Not hard to figure out.

And very last, regarding the point of low level players knowing or not knowing the rules, and "simply" reporting to dm's when someone griefs them or breaks established rules: There are a LOT of servers out there. A lot of players may try out a few different ones. Their first impression in a server is going to determine usually, whether they will invest their time with that server, or not, and that generally includes the in-depth study of the rules and grievance procedures. Checking out a server for the first time, I'm personally not going to spend hours reading through their forums to study everything about it. I'll read the basics, and then jump in to see how I like it. So if a level 3 gets griefed in the sewers, by someone higher level with a roadblock up, that player might think that such things are commonplace on our server, and just say "Screw this. I'll try out that next server in the list".

That is, in my opinion, the best reason why rules such as we have, are ideal and needed. Operating outside those rules can be done, if all players involved agree so (as in, if a victim at a roadblock agrees through tells that they should not be given an easy "out", then it's fine for the roadblockers to be less care-bear). Second best reason is that my character might have 24 hours in their day to do things - but the player behind said character most assuredly does NOT have 24 hours each day to devote to "proper" consequences. Some things just have to be left "assumed", and some opportunities for rp have to be passed up sometimes, due to time constraints. I'm sure we've probably all been there, done that. Or most/many of us have, at least. Where we had to leave an event early, or not participate due to time constraints. RL happens, sometimes. We all have to work within and around, that simple fact.

I agree with roadblaocks being too close to transitions = ooc unfair.

Leaving level 3's alone is a great idea. I rarely if ever pvp them. 99% of the time, if I see a level 3, I try and recruit them, that way they're hooked into a story early on. If the encounter turns hostile, I'll simply do the "I'll be back to get you later when you're ripe for the plucking" *evil laugh, walk away*

Contrast this to my first day in the Underdark of another server where my duergar refused to bow to a Drow female in a non-drow city and got jumped on by orogs, level 30 matron mothers and a whole gang of others, killed, sent to the fugue plane and lost all gold and xp immediately, had to respawn, IN the same said town and when I walked out the front door where they were ready to do it all again. I got called a "fool and idiot" in tells out of character until they realised that I was a newb. The DM of course intervened and told them off but by then, I had a whole town against me...

First impression wasn't good, I almost left until some of the older players thought, wow, you've got guts! we like you! The next day, the duergar players went on and bashed every single drow who took a swing the day before....lol. There were no more nasty tells and from there on everything happened IC.

I think Amia's rules are well balanced but people here tend to take things OOC far too early or often.

I could easily reverse it an say "why don't you make a server, where you could victimize anyone you want at your whim?"

The point is the point of view of the person, not your own point of view.

Furthermore the OUT of YOUR choosing should not be the only ones.(I'm talking to the many player of higher characters which just seem to want everyone to be their victim)

If I even attempted to cast a spell to get away from a highwayman situation I would be attacked so that's just foolish even in it's inception.

And NO, not everyone is offered an out, and YES they should. Because if there wasn't an out then nothing would prevent someone like me(who would be merciless) From killing everyone I came across.

FURTHERMORE, YES I CAN, WILL, and sometimes DO ignore the HELL out of people I DO NOT LIKE.

There are thousands of players who come to Amia, and I'll be damned if I am forced to play with some jerkwad that I don't even respect as a human being. And if someone does not want to play with me, I won't be a jackass about it and expect everyone to play MY way because I won the stupid PvP situation...or can win it.

We play in a persistent world and we try to make it fun for others. If you don't want victims who complain then make it fun for them and they won't. If they're complaining then something has gone wrong, except on rare occassions, where someone complains after doing something stupid and dying for it.

You want better victims.....be better victimizers. Most times those god gaming victims never wanted to play with you in the first place. That's WHY they do it.

No, they do it (god emoting) because they're CAREBEARS. Never wanting their precious PC to get hurt, ever. Always wanting to be SUPERMAN. Or they do it because they're running late for work and just want to log out early sometimes (I've been guilty of this).

If its the later, I'm far more forgiving. But if its the former, you'll bet we'll be leaving them alone because, quite frankly, I don't want to roleplay on a roleplay server with people who don't wish to roleplay.

Basically, I OOC'ly mark them in as "not not bother with anymore with this player and their characters" list if there's not a good reason for them to not roll with the punches.

Any time a player chooses to ignore a player for any OOC reason, the world suffers.

That depends on the RP.

Bad RP makes god gamers.

No one does it if the RP is good and fulfilling.

A small group complained about me a while back for killing some low level characters. I felt their insults justified their deaths...nyhow that's not the point.

I had one fire genasai place his burning hand on my character and singe his clothes. I pvp killed him outright. In a sense I victimized him and he got mad.(more like self defense..but anyway)

I killed a person in front of Ruathym. Two witnesses were present and told a DM, which was really weird because Cobbit was the player and HE DIDN'T complain. I know...no specific incidents. But I'm not disputing ANY of these. I did what I did.

SO ALL in ALL I have a total of three incidents where a character(or in the last case other characters not even in the situation) was victimized by my character and went OOC gripey......but I had already victimized.....up to hundred, if not more, and never got a complaint.

I started god gaming when I figured out I really hated some players....and their characters. Because I never wanted to play with the person who I hated SOOOOO much. And since his powerbuilds could outdo Ruces, I spent literally weeks accumulated game time, on the floor in dead silence.

So call me an ass if you want but if I don't want to play with you, I DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH YOU. And if you force your characters on mine when I hate YOU the player(not all players but a couple in particular I could watch a truck run them over and not blink), expect me to not want to play along.

By the way, I helped the Black Flag literally mug people in the streets. When guards came they found Hexx but not me. Everytime the guards stepped out of sight from a person, I'd cast darkness and kill someone. The guards would come back and groan, and then discover I had just killed another person who was just out of sight. I was caught for the theft, but they never had enough information on who was committing the murder because even the victims themselves did not know who it was, I cast darkness everytime I killed someone. I went to jail for a day for the theft...but it was one of the best RP scenarios I ever had the pleasue in taking part of....and there was no fancy flashes of light or anything necessary. We had victims and they had fun.

I wish every RP scenario was like that.

TormakSaber wrote:

Any time a player chooses to ignore a player for any OOC reason, the world suffers.

I read your post and I still think I'm right. Sorry.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I respect other people's choices and others don't....fair enough.

I remember when I was a newb, a high lvl characters player literally went OOC as I was talking completely to someone else ICly and said "//I hate your character."

And I said, "//Ok....I hate yours too."

If that player asked me to be good sport and play his victim....I'd tell him what I ended up telling him before he was thankfully banned. I'd tell him to F**K off.

PS Sorry, you just can't expect that players who don't get along(for whatever reason because I never really understood why that particular player said and acted as he did) will want to play with each other.

I can expect it, but it doesn't mean you guys will live up to my expectations.

No...we won't. Sometimes one human just doesn't like another. The player I had the most problems with said HE HATED MY CHARACTER.

So after his tenth or eleventh time knocking me down(at the time the PVP was set up differently, with you just getting up after a while), no I didn't want to hav to acknowledge this ass who wants me to perma my character by making my time miserable.

I tried to ignore him....except it's hard to ignore someone who follows you around in hostile on a constant basis and doesn't let you rest or anything.

So yes you can expect it....but also expect to be sadly disappointed.

Ignoring isn't good.. but when you've developed a thriving both-sided grudge, then all that's left to do is stay out of each other's way and keep the interaction in shallow waters.

How much leeway you give the RP with another person IMO depends entirely on the push'n'pull. If I get the impression that the other person can only roleplay pushing and never takes a step back, then I am certainly not gonna be pushed.

Other people have said this in different points in time.. there is no total separation of IC and OOC. Anyone who believes he has his IC neatly tucked away from his OOC feelings is deluding himself. We all slip into the feelings of the character. We all get protective over what might happen to them in certain situations. And we all will react to certain players, influenced by our OOC feelings towards the other player.

When two OOC enemies are forced together, the results are bad. The situation has already escalated at this point, and I see just cutting off communication with the other character as one not very pretty but practical solution. In an optimal world, you could always make peace, but I've met a few people in my life that I really just want to not have in my field of vision, and I bet that's mutual.

At some point, you have to put the RP world secondary and your enjoyment primary. No grand RP and no grand enjoyment comes from two OOC enemies sitting together, feeling compelled because otherwise they'll get their fingers slapped.

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