As for academies: In Mulhorand, theres a univsersity and a wizards college in the city of Gheldaneth. Even slaves are taught to read and the best students may become apprentices of the Scribes Guild, regardless of of social class. The wizards college is open only for initiates of Thoth though and are magically screened. Every wizard must study either here or in the college in Skuld.
Skuld features the same but there isn't much written on it.
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
Dark Immolation wrote:
TormakSaber wrote:
I have a feeling "Mist Dragon" is actually the name for a specific type of Lung Dragon, which exist in Kara-Tur.
In that case some general information on the Lung dragons? Preferably the neutral to good aligned ones.
The most I could find was in Oriental Adventures (non-FR I'm afraid, but it doesn't seem to contradct anything from the Kara Tur Campaign Setting).
Basically, they're not bound to an alignment like chromatic or metallic dragons and are most often "wise and benevolent". Naturally, it also has the usual rant about how dragons are some of the most powerful creatures in existence when they age, and Lung ones grow to over 100 feet long.
I would provide more information, but there's nine pages of it and I'm studying for maths If you want to know more about a specific type, tell me and I'll look it up.
Here are some pretty pictures (because everyone likes pretty pictures):
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Sorry to bother, but is there any good sources on describing what it was like for the lay individual travelling and existing during the Time of troubles?
Magic was nuts, monsters were running wild, strange stuff was happening all around, clerics lost their power save for those few who flocked to the presence of their patrons' avatar. I guess it wasn't fun for anyone.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
A quick and weird question. Is there any precedence in FR to say that Acid elemental damage is connotated as non-good aligned?
I know, odd question, but I suppose just think on it a moment. You would likely see a pally or LG character use a fire, cold, electrical, sonic weapon without hesitation... But I've yet to this day to see any pally or LG person use an acid weapon. Is it just personal preference among people, or is acid kinda iffy, given good aligns?
The elements are unaligned in any sense you could verify. But I guess some might consider acid a bit cruel and gruesome. Not that chopping people to pieces isn't.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Picking up from the Pally thread; For years actually, I have been tempted to play a paladin, but I'm unsure whether that character would qualify as a paladin. The idea is a wanderer devoted to a good god, probably Lathander, traveling the lands to help those in need, fight evil etc, but with the focus on promoting good and understanding rather than eradicating evil and imposing laws. I would also add a sort of secrecy twist; he wouldn't boast of what he does, who he is or such, more the type to do what is needed and help where he can, and then silently be on his way again. Work a bit behind the scenes without being the scheming type. He would rely on diplomacy and wits as much as strength, so he wouldn't zealously challenge every single evil-does he sees for short term "gains", but rather think of what promotes the welfare of the common people in the long run.
So my question would be; could a Paladin live by these ideas and still represent the paladin class, and if so, which deity would be suitable?
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Sounds decent to me. There are differing interpritations of how to best impliment every good god's will. What you describe there actually sounds like a mild-mannered paladin of Tyr, using his head and wisdom to see that justice gets done(by the books), rather than running around like some uncouf, unlearned whippersnapper pally and smitting every thing he sees. And I am always a fan of diplomats in fantasy settings. *thumbs up*
As long as it's an LG, NG, or LN deity, a paladin like that seems plausible. After all, paladins can focus more on promoting a specific part of their deity's dogma just as a cleric or worshiper can, IIRC.
Sounds excellent, a great change for the typical paladins. Though I do not like the fact that you're not playing a Seeker-compatible PC!
You could do the same concept but with a Paladin of Oghma. >_> He's TN, but he can have worshipers of any alignment. It's not exactly canon, but seems quite believable that he'd have paladins as much as Selûne would. Or, to stay perfectly canon: Deneir!
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Only reason i didnt state Seeker compatible is that i didnt think of it. I did actually think on, if 14 int, got for Disciplin, Taunt, Diplomacy, Heal and Lore as skills.
But Im still uncertain on what deities that fits. deneir could do, if she accepts paladins (its a she, right?). I basicly need a benovelent deity who isnt desperate to recieve alot of praises, preaching and zeal, but is rather genuinly interested in spreading good among the people.
To describe this paladin with one word would be "compassionate"
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
Deneir is a he, the scribe of Oghma. Neutral Good. Selûne doesn't technically have paladins, though one book mentions them (might be a mistake, might be intentional), and it's always been fine on Amia. She's very Seekerish too! If we're talking human, hmm..
Savras would be awesome. A seeker of truth, served by many monks and LG people. He's not about secrecy, though. Valkur should also be possible, according to P&P. Azuth, if you're into protecting and furhtering magic. Or Mystra. Pretty open to interpretation, those two. Milil for music. Mielikke and Gwaeron Windstorm for rangery business.
Dunno. I like the idea of Oghma, Deneir or Selûne. Lathander isn't bad, either.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
A Paladin of Oghma runs into issues because fundamentally he has oaths and vows that an Oghmanyte doesn't have, regarding evil ,evil associates, demons, undead, etc. That's sort of limiting in the whole "I gain all knowledge" end.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Well, I doubt the average goodly Oghmanyte will have anything to do with evil types, either. Oghmanytes are sworn to never slay a singer, to sponsor music and to copy texts for free, as well as spread education. What's required of all Oghmanytes is quite loose, an allows for almost any kind of an interpretation: from the thief who busts up wizard towers to rob their secrets, to the fat village teacher. Hence the "any alignment," I reckon.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Actually Gwaeron Winstrom seems rather fitting, if he does indeed accept paladins. Could even toss in a ranger level for good measures. I cant find much info on him, but he seems to be of the wandering, protecting but not too zealous type of deity.
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
Hehe. Welcome to the world of difficult decisions!
That's obviously not what it means, though. It might mean that while a paladin knew a minstrel performing in a tavern was harboring ill intentions, or perhaps had Zhent connections, he wouldn't go stop his performance and beat him up, I reckon.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
TormakSaber wrote:
Quote:
Oghmanytes are sworn to never slay a singer
Sucks for the paladin fighting a bard/BG...
Ha, I was just about to ask if someone initiates a fight with a Oghmanyte pally by "Curse Song", does that mean they pretty much have to fall on their sword in that instance.
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
It sounds like a cool idea, yeah. Lathander and Selune are fine choices. An interesting one would be the Red Knight too, I think. If you wanna go wild, maybe even Siamorphe. But yeah, if you want a more nature/wandering type of god for the PC to follow Mielikki and Gwaeron Windstrom are fine choices also. Hell, maybe even Shiallia.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Just to add, Siamorhpe would in fact be another good one to look at. Her whole thing is nobility(higher class and diplomats) should see to it that the regular people are provided for. Noblesse oblige, or that the nobles are obliged and expected to fufil their position and rule nobly. I don't suppose a paladin of Siamorhpe would be fanatically concerned with evil (she allows clerics of LG, LN, and LE after all). Nor do I suppose he'd be too worried about "under the table" deals or action behind the scenes, either. After all, it's the duty of the noble to use his connections to the benifit of the peasants, seeing as they can't access some things themselves.
She is considered mildly good-aligned though I imagine, like Helm, and she does reside in the House of the Triad. She opposes tyranny in all its forms (which makes one wonder what exactly the LE allowance is about), and opposes Bane, Cyric, and Gargauth.
Dogma
Quote:
Nobles are given a divine right to rule, provided they rule responsibly and well. The nobility have an obligation (noblesse oblige) to rule with the best interest of their subjects in mind, even when those obligations interfere with their personal desires.
The benefits of nobility are provided to them so that they can rule well. Their wisdom and charisma are inherited from their noble ancestors, and the leisure that their station provides is theirs so that they may be educated to properly perform their duties.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Hmmm. I stand corrected then. Perhaps a cleric or ranger is a better choice. Now that I look back at it, what QPR is describing would kinda be a bit tricky to RP as a paladin. But I still like the idea, however it turns out.
No, Chillywick is near Endirs Point, in Frozenfar, which is a half world away, I think? I believe its even on the mainland.
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Location: on the couch (-6 GMT)
Is it possible for a cleric to have more than one deity he serves and reveres?
I've read that it was common for most people to worship more than one deity, probably to cover the bases. Does it make sense for a cleric to feel the same? Or is he bound to represent just one deity, even though he could (secretly) worship another as well?
I'm asking because I'm considering a cleric who would worship two gods of a particular pantheon. Basically I can't decide between the two, and it makes sense to me that he would equally worship both, as they're often associated with each other. His alignment would be in accordance with both deities and he would have one domain from each god's portfolio.
I realize that NWN allows one deity to be technically worshiped, and I would pick one of them for the deity system. That's fine. I'm just wondering about ICly, if he could say he serves two.
Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Location: on the couch (-6 GMT)
Let's say that when he prays he always prays to both deities. Would he necessarily know which one his spells are coming from? In other words, does he have to have primary and secondary deities?
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
The cleric knows which god he's praying to for his spells. He doesn't necessarily know that that's the god that's giving them (there's several examples of gods stealing the followers of a dead power like that), but he does know which he's trying to get it off.
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I had a Druid that prayed to both Segojan Earthcaller and Callarduran Smoothhands. I sought DM team approval first and they were fine with it. Druids though, are slightly different to clerics....
_________________ Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
I had a Druid that prayed to both Segojan Earthcaller and Callarduran Smoothhands. I sought DM team approval first and they were fine with it. Druids though, are slightly different to clerics....
Yes, but your druid still only got spells from one god. Not both.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
You can pray to the entire pantheon if you like, there is still only one patron deity that grants spells. In fact, most clerics in FR afaik do pray (or at least leave offerings for) most of the pantheon - you're going on a long journey? Leave something for the god of roads (unless, of course, they're an enemy of your deity).
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Aye, which would have been from Segojan Earthcaller since Callarduran Smoothhands doesn't support Druids.
My character, Willow, worships Silvanus, Selune and Sheela Peryroyl as her main gods. Selune doesn't support Druids so she's out of the question, but Silvanus and Sheela do. That said, she receives her spells from Silvanus alone, because that's her patron.
It is indeed a technicality, and not too clear. There have been cleric NPCs with two patrons in FR, or so I've seen credible sources oftentimes mention, but I don't know where/what/how.
The idea of a "patron deity" is relatively new and, IMO, artificial. Since PCs don't actually know anything definite about the afterlife, I don't reckon it has much IC signifigance. I doubt most people even know this whole "patron deity" business is; it's probably an subconscious choice. For the common man, his patron deity is the one who he happens to be the closest to in terms of interests or outlook. I doubt it has to be acknowledged or decided.
I would say it's perfectly plausible to worship two deities equally as a cleric, provided they are closely allied. The nature gods share a Chosen, for example, as do Mystra and Eilistraee. Whether or not the spells come from one, the other, both, or if the gods even take turns, is completely OOC knowledge.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
IronAngel wrote:
For the common man, his patron deity is the one who he happens to be the closest to in terms of interests or outlook.
Earlier, you have stated that this notion is a stupid fallacy among Amians. Rather, you have argued that most people (certainly commoners) don't individually choose their patron deity based on personal interests or outlook, but rather have their patron deity choosen for them by their culture/community.
Is worship in the realms a personal or a cultural matter, Iron? Make up your mind, biatch!
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Last edited by Kjetta on Fri, Nov 20 2009, 14:48 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Well, it's both. I think the question of the metaphysical relationship between mortal and patron deity, and the actual worship in daily life, are seperate matters. (Though I've rarely thought about the actual nature of the patron deity relationship.)
In this context, the question is whether all/most people consciously state (aloud or in their mind): X is my patron deity, I choose X to judge me worthy of an afterlife.
What they certainly don't do is go over a catalogue of gods, pick the one that suits their personality and interests, and say "This shall be my patron."
Instead, I imagine they will worship the gods known to them locally. Out of these gods, they may or may not choose a "patron deity." Most probably don't, especially if there are a few equally important gods in the community. They may go to Lathander's mass on First-day, pray Chauntea on Second-day, and then drop by Helm's church on Third-day, without ever picking one consciously as the "best."
However: of all the gods they know, their patron deity will probably be "magically" determined by their outlook. Perhaps this even applies to gods they don't know about: A warrior might live his life according to the dogma of Tempus, portraying the ideals of a warrior, without ever hearing about the god of war. I think it's still plausible that when he dies, Tempus may judge him worthy and take him as a petitioner, assuming the guy hadn't made a stronger/conscious "patron god agreement" with another god.
Maybe. This is just speculation, but it makes sense.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
Being a Chosen is a different matter than being a Cleric or Druid though. I've never seen proof of a Druid or Cleric receiving Clerical or Druidic spells from more than one god. I could be wrong though, just haven't seen it myself. The major difference in these is that a person chooses to be devout to a certain god and they can choose to attempt to achieve the gifts of being a Cleric or Druid. A Chosen is all about the God. They choose you out of the sea of peoples on Toril. Because, evidently, the person needn't be one who considers or subconsciously believes them their "patron".
About choosing a patron though, I agree. I don't think it's a conscious choice for everyone. But for a Cleric or Druid, I think it's a lot more clear. My character, Willow, worships Silvanus, Selune and Sheela Peryroyl most of all, like I said. But, she feels closest to Silvanus, by far. She knows Silvanus is her source of her gifts of Druidic magic, not Sheela and certainly not Selune. But then there are those who truly feel a perfect fifty fifty between two gods they worship. That's where lines can become a bit blurred I'm sure. But wouldn't you still know who gives them to you since you have to pray to the god to receive your Clerical or Druidic magic anyway?
Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Location: on the couch (-6 GMT)
What if a cleric is praying to two or more deities equally for his powers, because that's what he was taught to do. Would the 'patron deity' somehow supernaturally inform the cleric that he's the patron providing the power behind the spells?
Now that would be a sight to see....He'd be a true believer for sure. It'd be hard to worship another deity with equal zeal I would think.
So it doesn't make sense to me that a cleric who's part of a polytheistic culture would necessarily know who his patron deity is, because it wouldn't make sense to worship multiple gods equally when one is know to be the power behind his clerichood.
I'm satisfied with this: he has a patron, but he might not know which one it is.
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
The god doesn't have to come down from the heavens and tell him/her, all it takes is the prayer to the one god and you get your fresh spells. That, that is how your character would know and say "oh, so it's ____ that gives me them, not ___". It would make plenty of sense to keep praying to other gods, even equally, if the cleric found out who gave him his spells. I'm sure certain people might stop spraying to others because of that, but not all. Some people don't worship just because the god gives them powers. Hell, I dare say that if you're only worship for powers, you're a false believer. True faith, in my opinion, should be beyond that. It's a kinship, a bond.
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If you want to know more about a specific type, tell me and I'll look it up.
