AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Quote:

They died ICly, they came back OOCly. Seems cut and dry.

Let's not abuse this privilege, or it's asking for higher death penalties.

Who wants xp and gold lost on death, pvp included? How about, no more ooc raises without a painful cost on an OOC level to match that IC suffering. IE: unavoidable, except by IC cleric or scroll, xp/gold drain?

If the OOC 'pain' isn't matching at least some of the IC suffering, that can be adjusted.
Griefing? Screenshot and report to a DM. Perhaps if your killed in pvp, and raised oocly, you stay away from that person for the rest of the day, and they aren't allowed to kill you again until 24hrs later unless mutually agreed to?

have an official declaration that when you die and get raised, you do not remember the events around that death, like within a day or a week or something. Then they cannot ICly know that they died. It would be completely implausible that they died and came back to life, so they might assume they bumped their heads and had a bit of amnesia.

and/or tag a nominal xp penalty for being killed on a "subdued" level in PvP, like 100x(CL-5). It wouldn't mean much, but it would scare people a bit into not wanting to die.

One way to add OOC sting (resulting in proper IC precautions) to PvP death is to include the need of resurrection rather than raise dead, in order to be brought back alive.

Aka, you need to find an actual cleric, to do the raising.

Just an idea.

How about awarding alignment points for PvP kills, kill good people you get evil points - kill evil people you get neutral points, kill neutral people you get evil points.

KingCreeper wrote:

How about awarding alignment points for PvP kills, kill good people you get evil points - kill evil people you get neutral points, kill neutral people you get evil points.

I couldn't support that. Gives me too much of an Arena server feeling.

Last edited by corypx on Mon, Nov 16 2009, 1:15 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Azrael wrote:

Quote:

They died ICly, they came back OOCly. Seems cut and dry.

Let's not abuse this privilege, or it's asking for higher death penalties.

Who wants xp and gold lost on death, pvp included? How about, no more ooc raises without a painful cost on an OOC level to match that IC suffering. IE: unavoidable, except by IC cleric or scroll, xp/gold drain?

If the OOC 'pain' isn't matching at least some of the IC suffering, that can be adjusted.
Griefing? Screenshot and report to a DM. Perhaps if your killed in pvp, and raised oocly, you stay away from that person for the rest of the day, and they aren't allowed to kill you again until 24hrs later unless mutually agreed to?

IC suffering how, pain? like I said with heal potions and raise scrolls all over the place pain,scars damage dont live on this island, EXP loss sounds logical, but then you get into the PVP nuts who just want to kill people because they can.

"Heal enables you to channel positive energy into a creature to wipe away injury and afflictions. It immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the Target: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. It also cures 10 hit points of damage per level of the caster, to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level."

most people if they do lose in PVP as the attacker stay away from the area and dont come back

Mr Mago wrote:

One way to add OOC sting (resulting in proper IC precautions) to PvP death is to include the need of resurrection rather than raise dead, in order to be brought back alive.

Aka, you need to find an actual cleric, to do the raising.

Just an idea.

PvP death is the same as PvM, so if one needs a cleric they both do, or none do.

KingCreeper wrote:

How about awarding alignment points for PvP kills, kill good people you get evil points - kill evil people you get neutral points, kill neutral people you get evil points.

that could lead to paladin/blackguards

KingCreeper wrote:

How about awarding alignment points for PvP kills, kill good people you get evil points - kill evil people you get neutral points, kill neutral people you get evil points.

DMs will say flat no to that, as it would allow you to change your alignment at will.

Mr Mago wrote:

One way to add OOC sting (resulting in proper IC precautions) to PvP death is to include the need of resurrection rather than raise dead, in order to be brought back alive.

Aka, you need to find an actual cleric, to do the raising.

Just an idea.

This could work, yeah. Raise scrolls should be exclusively reserved to patch up people on adventuring trips, if you ask me.

Then again, jackasses PvPing against the rules will take advantage of PvP penalties. Which probably leads to DMs being more punishment-happy than normal and heftier penalties being delivered for crimes where you'd normally get a harsh warning and ban on the next offence. Regarding PvP, that is.

I do like that idea, but it doesn't address the perceived problem of the 'OOC Respawn'

corypx wrote:

IC suffering how, pain? like I said with heal potions and raise scrolls all over the place pain,scars damage dont live on this island, EXP loss sounds logical, but then you get into the PVP nuts who just want to kill people because they can.

"Heal enables you to channel positive energy into a creature to wipe away injury and afflictions. It immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the Target: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. It also cures 10 hit points of damage per level of the caster, to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level."

most people if they do lose in PVP as the attacker stay away from the area and dont come back

IC Pain? Yea there is IC pain, even if people OOCly ignore it. Icly your character is getting slain, in not a pleasant way.

Ignoring pain because 'oh I'll just grab a heal potion later' ...does not take away the fact that your were hurt badly to begin with. Just because in Amia a person can heal that stab wound to the stomach doesn't make the stabbing in the gut any less painful. Yea still got knifed, which is IC reason to avoid knives in the future, not ask for them because you can just heal them later.

Last edited by corypx on Mon, Nov 16 2009, 1:34 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Nekhy wrote:

This could work, yeah. Raise scrolls should be exclusively reserved to patch up people on adventuring trips, if you ask me.

Then again, jackasses PvPing against the rules will take advantage of PvP penalties. Which probably leads to DMs being more punishment-happy than normal and heftier penalties being delivered for crimes where you'd normally get a harsh warning and ban on the next offence. Regarding PvP, that is.

why, the monsters kill you the same as the person, why would scrolls only work on monster kills?

and if people think DMs dont do events or hand out DCs now wait till PVP death penalties come in, DM will just log on and have to deal with PVP fights, sort tons of screen shots from people from forum flamewars, Party chats talks,PM fighting, OOC yelling....ect

Azrael wrote:

IC Pain? Yea there is IC pain, even if people OOCly ignore it. Icly your character is getting slain, in not a pleasant way.

Ignoring pain because 'oh I'll just grab a heal potion later' ...does not take away the fact that your were hurt badly to begin with. Just because in Amia a person can heal that stab wound to the stomach doesn't make the stabbing in the gut any less painful. Yea still got knifed, which is IC reason to avoid knives in the future, not ask for them because you can just heal them later.

you get stabed you get a burst of adrenaline that lowers the pain, the fight offen does not last long and you live or die.

if you win, you pop a heal potion all wounds on you are repaired and you would no longer have anything to cause you pain

if you die, you are dead and dont feel pain, you get raised you pop a heal potion and like I said no damage to your body anymore so nothing to cause pain.

Nekhy wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

One way to add OOC sting (resulting in proper IC precautions) to PvP death is to include the need of resurrection rather than raise dead, in order to be brought back alive.

Aka, you need to find an actual cleric, to do the raising.

Just an idea.

This could work, yeah. Raise scrolls should be exclusively reserved to patch up people on adventuring trips, if you ask me.

Then again, jackasses PvPing against the rules will take advantage of PvP penalties. Which probably leads to DMs being more punishment-happy than normal and heftier penalties being delivered for crimes where you'd normally get a harsh warning and ban on the next offence. Regarding PvP, that is.

Griefing in any form is already against the rules. And the PvP rules in particular are quite precise and accurate.

I don't see that as a problem, since it's already covered by the current rules, and should someone be griefed, then the victim of said griefing just has to screenshot and send it to a DM.

Direct and obvious violations to the PvP rules should be punished. First time offender... give them a warning. Second time offender, take a few levels. Continuous offender = (temporary) ban.

Nekhy asked for solutions.

Because of the rules we have, as pointed out above, you cant permakill anyone, so they will be back. ICly, that means they were only knocked out, the body was found, their dear ol' gran'ma had paid up their true resurrection insurance policy, whatever. But because people come back, whether through IC planning/luck or OOC mechanics, the end result is that they return ICly, and some might well (ICly) get cocky about death.

As was pointed out, death should be painful (unless you were dev critted on the first shot and instantly decapitated). The only thing I can really think of would be something along the lines of a stat-reduction script (which I believe Gunz mentioned). If you die in PvP, you lose d6 on each stat (an alternative is 40/30/20/10% ch of -1/-2/-3/-4; minimum stat is 3), regaining one point in each every time you fully rest. At least there will be some residual effect of having been killed.

If you get nailed during an adventure, you may be able to soldier on depending on how badly you were hit, or you might not. This makes hunting at least a little more dangerous (to address the uber-boss threads). There might need to be limits on the number of times this can be applied (to dissuade griefers from knocking everyone down to 3's), and maybe a reset restores 2 pts in each stat, but that's the basic idea.

corypx wrote:

and if people think DMs dont do events or hand out DCs now wait till PVP death penalties come in, DM will just log on and have to deal with PVP fights, sort tons of screen shots from people from forum flamewars, Party chats talks,PM fighting, OOC yelling....ect

Bullshit. You're trying to put forward a scenario that's not even remotely realistic.

Sigh.

Xaviera wrote:

If you get nailed during an adventure, you may be able to soldier on depending on how badly you were hit, or you might not. This makes hunting at least a little more dangerous (to address the uber-boss threads). There might need to be limits on the number of times this can be applied (to dissuade griefers from knocking everyone down to 3's), and maybe a reset restores 2 pts in each stat, but that's the basic idea.

Problem with that is that two groups get into legitimate PvP in a hunting area, but the loser was there first. They now no longer have the ability to continue hunting because they're so weakened ... seems a good way to force someone out of their hunting grounds.

Seems realistic to me. Maybe the deterrant should be on the random PKers who jump out of nowhere and just attack. There is a PvP mode widget isn't there? People who are actively seeking it should use the tool, people who attack without heeding the tool's infinite wisdom and infallible truth and reason should ultimately be slapped upside da head. That would solve the OOC raise and death issue from that point at least.

When my characters get smacked to death by a big nasty moster the best I normally throw out is 'Urgh...', usually - and in no way am I saying it's not an issue on my part either, - because the rest of the party are already a million miles ahead straight after using the raise scroll, to fight the next mob.

corypx wrote:

why, the monsters kill you the same as the person, why would scrolls only work on monster kills?

Because PCs are more important than NPCs in the storyline, and both the ability of PCs to affect the gameworld with their actions as well as the believability of what happens to the PCs should be priorities. It's also about finding a balance between what makes the game enjoyable for the player while keeping the story coherent from the character's point of view.

Of course, this is not something you can even assess by looking at it from within the gameworld. It is about what makes the gameworld.

In our realm, it makes a more coherent and meaningful storyline for the adventurer to get knocked out by monsters, and have someone save their ass if needed. It leaves room for a truly meaningful death to have an impact on the character's story when it happens.

Quote:

the end result is that they return ICly

no they don't. they return OOCly, with no IC reason whatsoever.

You can't force people to RP pain or the understanding that pain exists, and even the good RPers don't usually say ouch during hunting.

a penalty is the only way to do this. 100x(CL-5) after a PvP death every time would be great. It doesn't really stunt any leveling growth in an individual instance and it would still stop people from considering themselves immortal with no cost. The IC explanation could be that death-->raise or being knocked out causes amnesia.

Last edited by corypx on Mon, Nov 16 2009, 1:44 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Mr Mago wrote:

corypx wrote:

and if people think DMs dont do events or hand out DCs now wait till PVP death penalties come in, DM will just log on and have to deal with PVP fights, sort tons of screen shots from people from forum flamewars, Party chats talks,PM fighting, OOC yelling....ect

(censored). You're trying to put forward a scenario that's not even remotely realistic.

Sigh.

..... umm you dont think that is remotely realistic it happens allready, and this is with who losses not having to bite a loss, throw in a loss and they will care more and fight about it longer

lets see DMs have had to say atlast once, ontop of you making comments of personal attacks on people, thats on the forums, now do you think the players online are not talking about this thread or what your talking about in party and PMs?

so you see I'm allready right and no change has been made at all and people are allready fighting(so your wrong about it not being remotely realistic)

corypx wrote:

lets see DMs have had to say atlast once, ontop of you making comments of personal attacks on people, thats on the forums, now do you think the players online are not talking about this thread or what your talking about in party and PMs?

Eeh... what?

it is true that there are people who will bitch and moan at every penalty they see, but that is an inevitable part of rules and people who always get their way. Death isn't supposed to be fair. The problem is that you can't have an IC penalty without having an OOC penalty.

blackvswhite wrote:

Quote:

the end result is that they return ICly

no they don't. they return OOCly, with no IC reason whatsoever.

You can't force people to RP pain or the understanding that pain exists, and even the good RPers don't usually say ouch during hunting.

a penalty is the only way to do this. 100x(CL-5) after a PvP death every time would be great. It doesn't really stunt any leveling growth in an individual instance and it would still stop people from considering themselves immortal with no cost. The IC explanation could be that death-->raise or being knocked out causes amnesia.

Did they die ICly or OOCly? Do they end up alive ICly or OOCly?

If the answer to both of these is OOCly, then it should be ignored. If the answer to the first is OOCly ad the latter ICly, than it has already been ignored. If the answer to the former is ICly and the latter OOCly, well, then you're essentially outside the game - your character doesn't exist, isn't bound by concepts such as no OOC since they don't exist ICly anyway.

If the answer to both it ICly, however, then there must have been a transition between being dead ICly and being alive ICly ... the act of coming alive ICly is returning ICly.

And now we ended up in philosophy class.

blackvswhite wrote:

it is true that there are people who will bitch and moan at every penalty they see, but that is an inevitable part of rules and people who always get their way. Death isn't supposed to be fair. The problem is that you can't have an IC penalty without having an OOC penalty.

...but because people bitch and moan about it doesn't mean the rule/policy shouldn't be there.

An ooc penalty is a nice reminder that 'Death is unpleasant and should be avoided if possible', and that adds to realism.

Mr Mago wrote:

And now we ended up in philosophy class.

I just wanted to point out that, as Iron said, things don't need to be strictly IC or OOC ... we can glance over them.

Mr Mago wrote:

corypx wrote:

lets see DMs have had to say atlast once, ontop of you making comments of personal attacks on people, thats on the forums, now do you think the players online are not talking about this thread or what your talking about in party and PMs?

Eeh... what?

every thing sounds alot better in my head...

you said

Mr Mago wrote:

corypx wrote:

and if people think DMs dont do events or hand out DCs now wait till PVP death penalties come in, DM will just log on and have to deal with PVP fights, sort tons of screen shots from people from forum flamewars, Party chats talks,PM fighting, OOC yelling....ect

(censored). You're trying to put forward a scenario that's not even remotely realistic.

Sigh.

but people fight now about PVP and such, and it allways becomes large forum,partychat,OOC normal chat and PM fights that lead into attacks on the player as this thread has pointed out proving me right

Mr Mago wrote:

555444333 wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

I seriously hope you;'re not saying it's a good idea to do this. Because it's not.

Nope, but it's been proven now as a tool to get that jerk who keeps PvPing you to run to the forums and cry in frustration.

Showing colours again, Numbers, I can see.

Mr Mago wrote:

You're a (censored), Numbers. And I'd appreciate if this topic could be clear of petty attempts at personal insults when and where they are not called for.

now think, if you start making people lose levels or what ever for geting killed, they will fight much longer with the player who killed them and with the DMs about what happened and will turn into he said she said (and it will spill into party chat that happens allready and DMs have to shout warring to stop it,same thing with PMs or just yelling OOC in normal chat about stuff.) basicly a big waste of time for the DMs who have to deal with the PVP problem over say thier event.

Using Numbers + Me as an example doesn't really work, since that bitching between him and I have been going on for quite a while, and is unrelated to this specific thread.

He just decided to use it as way of getting a jab at me.

So no.. I can't really see how that would be evidence of a complete OOC mayhem, by everyone... everywhere... as a result of implementing resurrection as the only means of raising a character who died in PvP.

Running an event?
*turns party chat off*

Pvp dispute catch your eye, someone sent in a tell and it's a huge mess?
"Send me, or another DM the screen shots, it will be sorted. I'm currently running an event."

(optional) *sends tell to fellow dm* "..hey can you handle this (insert description here) situation? I'm currently in the middle of an event, if not no worries, I already told them to take screen shots of it."

...yay, event saved.

OOC bs takes second priority when it comes to IC RP on this RP server.

..or at least I'd like to think it does.

Azrael wrote:

OOC bs takes second priority when it comes to IC RP on this RP server.

..or at least I'd like to think it does.

I think its the other way around as the OOC fighting leads to bigger problem a event but put off 10mins is nothing big, leave a group fighting for 10min and it might take alot longer to get them under control

Nekhy wrote:

Because PCs are more important than NPCs in the storyline, and both the ability of PCs to affect the gameworld with their actions as well as the believability of what happens to the PCs should be priorities. It's also about finding a balance between what makes the game enjoyable for the player while keeping the story coherent from the character's point of view.

Of course, this is not something you can even assess by looking at it from within the gameworld. It is about what makes the gameworld.

In our realm, it makes a more coherent and meaningful storyline for the adventurer to get knocked out by monsters, and have someone save their ass if needed. It leaves room for a truly meaningful death to have an impact on the character's story when it happens.

but why do people keep spliting monster death and PVP death, you might as well split hunting for EXP and RP hunting and let necromancers undead dance with druids and paladins.

if you get killed by a monster its offen because you picked to hunt and if you hunt in a area to hard if you should get killed then you deal with it, but the logic of "Because PCs are more important than NPCs in the storyline" I would not agree on that point, some people just want to kill you with a poor IC RP reason and because they can, how is that important in the storyline then the monster who killed you?

I think RPing fear in itself is something most people have trouble doing. It shows a weakness, it makes them feel less heroic/cool, and as usual people take the IC as OOC.

Deciding your character doesn't fear death can be justified by Yurell's arguments, its just not a very interesting decision to make, its boring, and in theatre studies, we call it blocking.

I tutor kids between the age of 8 and 12 in drama skills. We do exercises that explore improvisation, character embodiment, and status. This is a bit of a segue, but bear with me.

We do an exercise for three kids, where they have to wear different hats depending on their character's status in the scene. There's a baseball cap for the kid with the lowest status, a round brim hat for the middle status kid, and a general's hat for the one with the highest status. We put them in a situation (a workplace of some kind usually) and they have to improvise a scene while being aware of the status of others.

Its amazing how younger kids (around the age of 8-10) have real difficulty taking on a lower status. Bowing their heads to the higher status people, showing fear etc. these are things we instruct them to do if they wear that baseball cap, but they hate it so much. When they get to wear the general's hat, they shout with glee like its their birthday.

Reminds me of Amia. Not that everyone wants maximum status, but rarely are people willing to allow their character to take on a low status in any RP scene. Meeting a character (like darthion for instance) who they know has the power to end their life, and is probably physically larger than them also, means they should take on the lower status in the scene (at least they would if this was a play or movie), and they should behave with fear when the threat of death is put on the table.

But that would mean accepting the baseball cap. Nobody wants to wear that hat. It might help the scene progress if they did, it might make a world of IC sense if they did, but they won't.

Yurell wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

And now we ended up in philosophy class.

I just wanted to point out that, as Iron said, things don't need to be strictly IC or OOC ... we can glance over them.

Totally taking that out of context.

TormakSaber wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

And now we ended up in philosophy class.

I just wanted to point out that, as Iron said, things don't need to be strictly IC or OOC ... we can glance over them.

Totally taking that out of context.

I'm using the idea he provided and using it in a different context while giving the person who thought of it due credit.

Quote:

using it in a different context

Quote:

Totally taking that out of context.

Very good Tormak! You discovered that expanding on someone's point also includes that very same point!

This isn't helping the conversation: Please let's get it back on track.

aaand back on track would be: what kind of penalty should be instated, or should we let it fly as is?

and I still think it should be an IC thing that you do not remember the events surrounding your death.

blackvswhite wrote:

aaand back on track would be: what kind of penalty should be instated, or should we let it fly as is?

and I still think it should be an IC thing that you do not remember the events surrounding your death.

I'd prefer Nekhy's idea of being knocked unconcious, that way we don't need to worry about complaints such as "Being brought back to life is OOC"

we don't need a pokemon mentality...

what is stopping that angry necromancer from sticking a scythe down your throat when he already has you unconscious? He wants to make you his toy.

people ICly -want- to kill you, why would they stop?

I think that the knockout/kill should be in the hands on the PvP winner

Last edited by corypx on Mon, Nov 16 2009, 3:30 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Yurell wrote:

blackvswhite wrote:

aaand back on track would be: what kind of penalty should be instated, or should we let it fly as is?

and I still think it should be an IC thing that you do not remember the events surrounding your death.

I'd prefer Nekhy's idea of being knocked unconcious, that way we don't need to worry about complaints such as "Being brought back to life is OOC"

I agree with this unless only because it sounds like the logic will be players will kill you but bloodlusting monsters wont...

but if PVP and PvM death is the same I'm fine with your dead.

I think tormak posted that its stupid that players wont kill you, and its kind of true but its even more stupid to then say that monster dont kill you and only beat you down making you pay for PvP deaths and not PvM.

blackvswhite wrote:

what is stopping that angry necromancer from sticking a scythe down your throat when he already has you unconscious? He wants to make you his toy.

people ICly -want- to kill you, why would they stop?

I think that the knockout/kill should be in the hands on the PvP winner

the same thing that stops you from helping friends out to your to the full extent of what the game and IC should/would let you, OOC rules saying you cant.

corypx wrote:

I think tormak posted that its stupid that players wont kill you, and its kind of true but its even more stupid to then say that monster dont kill you and only beat you down making you pay for PvP deaths and not PvM.

And it's also stupid to complain about people treating their constant coming back to life as IC when there is no other IC choice after being killed. At leas being knocked unconcious gives you a reason .. as Nekhy said, what breaks disbelief more?

'Beat the crap out of me as much as you like, I'll just be back tomorrow'

or

'Kill me, I'll just be back tomorrow' ?

I think imposing a penalty on death by pvp will only inflame OOC emotions more, it won't make characters take death seriously.

blackvswhite wrote:

people ICly -want- to kill you, why would they stop?

The same reason people don't rob bodies, give gold to lowbies, rape, ambush without RP, assassinate without warning etc. ... server rules.

Vaylek wrote:

I think imposing a penalty on death by pvp will only inflame OOC emotions more, it won't make characters take death seriously.

I agree with that.

Imposing a penalty on death will cause just large scale pvp that will not stop since when one side loses they will be more upset.

On note of ic reaction to fear. . . Its ic reaction for some messed up reason you have no fear over certain things who's right is it to tell you you have to be afraid because i am scary "roar" when they could come back with I went to the hell earlier today and fought demons your a mortal no where near the same level nor do I think it is. Lets face it the things a lot of pcs fight icly should scare the crap out of us, but we just pwn them for the most part, but then we should be afraid of a human after fighting the elder brain of the mindflayer? I really don't see any logical ic sense in that.

I don't rp "dieing" in PvM as death. I prefer that death DOES mean something to my characters. Actually being killed all the time makes that impossible.

So yeah, I go with knockout. In PvM.

PvP, I avoid. Not because I'm afraid of conflict rp, and not because I'm a carebear.

I avoid it because my character realizes that death is a distinct possibility. That a harsh land like Amia has bred strong adventurers. And my characters realize it makes sense to choose your battles, and to fight to win. So they don't mouth off to those who could potentially kill them, because they don't have a need to be so petty. If they decide there is a good reason to kill you, they'll ensure (to the best of their ability) that such a fight takes place when it's advantageous for them, not for you.

And yes, my characters tend to have a high enough intelligence to be able to reason in such a way. I don't play low int characters partly for this exact reason.

ALSO, my characters (and myself) realize that petty insults and mouthing off are the sort of thing that might warrant a beatdown, but not murder. Why do something that gets the law, and/or the opponents friends and/or faction, after you, over some mouthing off? Alas, my characters also know that too many adventuring types are quite blood-crazed, and that it's more likely you'll pull out a sword and try to stab them, rather than engage in a little fisticuffs.

Quite frankly, that last point, is something I consider a major failing among most players. If you genuinely cared about death meaning something, you wouldn't be so quick to pull your sword over an insult. You'd consider pulling punches instead. By choosing to use a sword, knowing that you might die, but not caring because "I'll just get back up and maybe rp being sore or something", well, you've made the choice to not care about death.

I choose to care.

You know, one of my characters ran across Darthion not too long ago and was scared crap-less. That's not to say that she wouldn't have defended herself had push come to shove, just that she definitely wasn't picking any fights with him.

I RP all my characters as fearing death. It's not something to be looked forward to, after all. I'm all for some sort of penalty being enforced for a PvP death. Even if it is something stupid... it'll keep those who are so concerned with winning that they give the lame excuses that Mago stated earlier from engaging in what would otherwise be useless PvP.

There are several characters (players) who RP authentically, in particular when it comes to fear and intimidation, who really offers hope and a breath of fresh air into the world.

And I praise every single one of those characters I've met so far.

Gah, I keep reading "MORALITY" rather than "MORTALITY". >.<

Anyway, this is indeed a problem.

My thoughts are much the same as these:

Cori wrote:

I avoid it because my character realizes that death is a distinct possibility. That a harsh land like Amia has bred strong adventurers. And my characters realize it makes sense to choose your battles, and to fight to win. So they don't mouth off to those who could potentially kill them, because they don't have a need to be so petty. If they decide there is a good reason to kill you, they'll ensure (to the best of their ability) that such a fight takes place when it's advantageous for them, not for you.

Still, sometimes I fail at that. But because the character has low wisdom and would let his temper take the best of him.

I have to agree with Vaylek.

Imposing additional penalties will, in my mind, at best force everyone to spend out into the most tricked out power builds possible just to ensure the least chance they don't get killed PvP killed.

Those who truely desire and build their characters for RP would be the minority and would be even less effective against the powerbuild mafias that can push them around because they have the builds to back it up. This issue is another that drives me nuts, but an aside to this topic.

In all honesty, no slight on you man and this is just speculation, but folks faced with builds that are very difficult to beat may become jaded because it's hopeless anyway; which is where the immersion RP breaks down. So, they may feel you as a player are getting some trip on their character's fear and will do what they can to deny you that, in this case rub an OOC mechanic in your face IC'ly.

Also, everyone wants to be the epic hero with no weaknesses. It was said earlier that some may feel it diminishes their character to show weakness and I agree this is contributes.

My closing point is simply this. You can't change the people that choose to IC'ly scoff at death. You could make the penalty as high as you like.. they will still do it.. in fact it would actually get worse, the victim hoping to be as harassing as possible since they know they face a stiff penalty.

So.. to everyone, choose who to RP with as best you can. There are folks who will RP mechanics ("Can you enchant this with a +2 charisma", said IC'ly). You just have to roll with it and surround yourself with folks that RP at your level.

To those who constantly RP things like the above and what Mago is pointing out, understand you're hurting your RP credibility and some folks will want less and less to do with you.

One thing I particularly don't like is when a person (won't mention names) goes and picks a fight, thinking they're going to win, and then refuse to RP when they die.

I was recently in a situation where a character attacked me, and I defeated her, and then she logged out to avoid the following RP. Incredibly frustrating when people do this, especially when you need to properly identify them, etc.

On the topic of death and dying IC, my character takes it very seriously. However, I as the player do not. I know I can RP Luelas tomorrow, whether he survives or not is up to me. That said, Luelas cares very much! He doesn't want to get hurt at all, let alone die! I play death as the sort of experiance you cannot get used to.

Luelas has died twice at the hands of another player, and each time took it's toll. There's no way in hell he wants to go through that again.

Mortality and You.

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