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Mask and Shar are two different deities. There are plenty of differences, so I'm not sure what exactly you're after. Shar is the original goddess of darkness, night, loss, I think revenge. Mask is the god of thieves.

Shadovar are citizen of the City of Shade. Mind that they are not shades who rule the city, but the normal mortal citizens.

Here's a good online article. It may not be 100% accurate and canon, but unless you get books it's the best you'll find:

http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/shade.htm

QPR wrote:

Out of interest; what class would people say best represents a typical christian monk at a monestary, if converted to nwn? Ofcourse, he couldn't be christian, but like what christian monks were doing in their monestaries.

It depends

I would rather say monk/cleric classes in every case

but even the christian monks were separated, you can't really put the Order of Saint Francis and the Order of Saint Benedict on the same page.

- Order of Saint Francis, would be similar to an Ilmatarite Order, because of the expression of poverty.
- ORder of Saint Dominic or the Jesuist would be like the Kelemvorites, since they were running the Christian Inquisition
- The Order of Saint BEnedict or the premonterite order would be like the Lathanderites or perhaps Deneir would look good too. Since those orders have established a lot of teaching and healing place.

Ahh i see. I was in the shadowscape (is this she same thing as the shade city?) and I was reading the description of Mask and it was talking about everything that lies in shadow was his domain. I was confused because I always thought Shar was the deity of darkness.

Shadowscape is not Shade Enclave (City of Shade). Shadowscape is an Amian town slipped into the Plane of Shadow. The City of Shade is a flying Netherese city somewhere above Anauroch, Faerûn.

Here's info on Shar:
http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humangods/Shar.htm

Here on Mask:
http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humangods/Mask.htm

Lutra: well and good, except that neither Jesuits, Franciscans nor Dominicans are monks. The latter two are mendicant orders, and Jesuits are typically priests.

Monks are ascetics who live in more or less monastic isolation. You will note that in Christian tradition, monks are rarely priests. Cleric is quite unfitting. You can make the distinction between priest and monk, the former practicing bhakti-type adoration and worship while the latter focus on contemplation, asceticism and (sometimes, though rarely) mysticism.

Actually, mysticism is a third type of worship that's found in many religions all over the world. You can roughly split worship into three groups: loving/fearful/respectful worship of the divine Other, asceticism which is the emphasis of spiritual values by absistence from worldly good, and mysticism whose goal is to reach unity with the divine, transcend dualism and experience reality in the true sense.

In 2e D&D, clerics practice worship, monks practice asceticism and mystics practice mysticism. All of them are priest-classes and gain divine spells. In 3e D&D monks become more oriental in flavor, which is a shame. I'd still go for Monk, though. Monk/Bard maybe, practicing on scholarship, religious hymns, absistence and discipline.

He mean monk sorceror, clearly,m since you can't be a monk/bard.

So does anyone know where Shar's idol is?

I'm sure some people do. But that sort of info isnt banded around OOC.

Oh right! No Monk/Bard. Bah, how lame.

Bard was there for the lore bonus and the music.

In the end though, it doesn't matter what your class is. An ascetic practices absistence of wordly things, probably also combat training.

The diversity within the Christian Monks is vast so it's hard to say without you pinpointing a christian denomination and/or specific order and/or time period.

Do mulans have their slaves sometimes compete in gladitorial matches?

IronAngel wrote:

Oh right! No Monk/Bard. Bah, how lame.

Bard was there for the lore bonus and the music.

In the end though, it doesn't matter what your class is. An ascetic practices absistence of wordly things, probably also combat training.

My DM allows that combo in PnP

The alignment restriction on bard is stupid.

At any rate, I do agree with you that monk would be the best to represent a RL monk.

Hrothmus wrote:

Ahh i see. I was in the shadowscape (is this she same thing as the shade city?) and I was reading the description of Mask and it was talking about everything that lies in shadow was his domain. I was confused because I always thought Shar was the deity of darkness.

Shadows are Masks domain, but darkness is Shars. There's a difference. While there may be many similarities between the two, there are major differences as well. Major difference that can put the faiths at odds a lot of times.

One major thing is that Sharran are forbidden from bettering their lot in life or to plan ahead (Shar is goddess of forgetfulness and loss after all), unless directed to do so by higher ups in the faith. Maskarran on the other hand, believe that ownership is "nine-tenths of what is right". They stand for furthering their lot by stealing because the quick and smooth-tongued deserve what they can take or can convince others to give them (robbers and con men, in other words). In fact, they believe what they can take is rightfully theirs. They believe they should end each day at least a little bit wealthier. The church of Mask is said to be the richest church of all, second only to the church of Waukeen.

Sharran don't believe or subscribe to the idea of "hope". Maskarran, on the other hand do, I believe. They hope to better their lot everyday, after all.

Sharran are to obey higher ups in the faith unless their lives are at risk. They're usually run in an authoritarian hierarchy. Maskarran have a much more loose hierarchy. The church has tons of independent church's and regional organizations that are very loosely linked. This has caused the church to fall on hard times until recently. They're finally catching on and starting to work closer together. Still, their structure of church is much looser than the authoritarian Sharran church.

Sharran are the direct enemies of light and Selunes faithful. Maskarran are anti-"the bright way", but not light itself. Light casts shadows, ya know? Maskarran have no direct feud with Selunites as holy dogma.

Sharran are masters of manipulation and secrecy (not to be confused with lies, that's what Cyricists are masters of). This is how they take down governments and corrupt people. Maskarran are masters of manipulation and subtlety. They do lie when they have to but they prefer to bend the truth. They like to tell the truth but leave a mistaken impression.

Sharran try to take down governments through corruption. They believe freedom is hindered by government, which is something they hold in high esteem. Maskarran do like to corrupt governments and organizations, but they're not known for it like Sharran are and they do it for different reasons. Sharran do it to "free" people, while Maskarran would probably do it to gain riches.

Draconomicon: The Book of Dragons

Can you download this somewhere?

I don't think they sell digital copies. Hard copies aren't very expensive though. About 25 bucks, I think. If you're looking to download it illegally, I don't know if you'll find that kinda help here. I doubt anyone wants legal trouble with WotC. They've been known to be pretty ruthless about their copyrighted stuff.

PM me.

What defines a "quasi-magical item"? I know mythallar is considered a type, but I've heard of others that I can't recall. My best guess is that they're items partially composed of the raw magic themselves?

Your definition likely depends solely on where you saw the term, what sourcebook, what edition, etc.

Request for comments on the Rashemi witches, the Wychlaran:

1) does their way of using magic, i.e. place bound magic and spirits work outside of Rashemen in some way?

2) if so, what class best to represent those powers, sorc/druid/wiz? The witches are wizards according to wikia and there is even a PRC

3) is Amia (the Khem region mostly) a feasable environment to play such a character without bending the lore so much you need butter and a crowbar to fit it in?

(IIRC there are witches that get banished from Rashemen, though the question is if they retain some of their power)

4) If all above does apply, does such a character require a formal request? (Wychlaran and hathrans being the equal of nobility and ruling class in Rashmen)

Thanks.

Their magic works outside, IIRC, but not quite as effectively. They lose some bonus? I can check the books.

They're both divine and arcane spellcasters. Cleric/Wizard would be best. Druid, not bad either.

They get their divine spells from one of the three: Mielikki, Chauntea or Mystra (known by her alias, whatever that was).

I got all this in books, but I'm too lazy to check now.

The witch could very well go out on a task.

I suppose a graduated hathran with political power would need approval, but a student wouldn't.

I thought Witches where Sorc, because Male Spellcasters where banned from their society, and the magic comes natural, they don't keep spellbooks I believe.

Sorcs are a 3e invention, and Rashemen is much older. So I think it's safe to say they're not (only/primarily) sorcs. Male spellcasters go to join some secret order, they're not banned altogether.

Looked up some stuff in Spellbound and Unapproachable East:

All female spellcasters arcane and divine fall under the ranks of witches, except for the Unproven (who don't take the Ethran feat). They're generally allowed to carry on their minor spellcasting as long as they don't claim the powers of a witch.

Ethrans are the novices. They're of any arcane or divine spellcasting class, though most are clerics or sorcerers.

All ethrans are required to travel the world once (usually in groups) to gather news. All males also undertake the spiritual journey and rite of pasage, dajemma. Females may take it too, but it's not mandatory. So there's plenty of reason for Rashemi to be out and about, and it's actually said they know relatively much about the world outside thanks to this tradition.

Hathrans are proven witches, higher in rank and much fewer in number than ethran.

According to Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, the Hathran Prestige Class: they're usually cleric/wizards. Some are bards, druids, rangers and sorcerers. They must be able to cast 2nd level arcane and divine spells, be LG, LN or NG, and worship Bhalla (Chauntea), Khelliara (Mielikki) or Hidden One (Mystra). They also get the Place Magic ability they can only use in Rashemen: they can cast any spell they know spontaneously.

Older books and the 3e Unapproachable East don't suggest a Hathran must be both arcane and divine spellcaster, though. I'd take the PrC with a grain of salt. Still, such a split would be damn cool to RP.

Anyway: ethrans are suitable PCs, acknowledged hathrans might need a request. Ethrans are just local spellcasters with no necessary special powers.

Ok so I have a Blackgaurd character who was fallen from grace as a nobleman, mercenary, and a gaurd of Waterdeep (Valin Blackheart).

I was referencing this thread for good ideas for his roleplay concerning his Blackgaurd levels:
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=44325

And throughout his roleplay, he was becoming involved with the Cult of the Dragon and even converted into worshiping Falazure by Horgar Blackbeard. During this conversion (which was RP'd in front of DM and everything), Valin was granted divine powers by Falazure with no apparent "fiend" medium as was suggested in that thread.

Now, as a Blackgaurd, obviously he can summon a fiend and I plan on getting the Epic Fiend feat later on for him. My question is this: Given Falazure's home plane (The Mausoleum of Pain), are there any notable fiends on that plane that would be partnering with Valin in this manner? I'm not too big on that end of the lore to know what the name of a fiend/devil/whatever would be that would act as a medium/overseer to make sure that Valin is doing what he was contracted to do (Falazure's Dogma).

I would really appreciate some info on any fiends/devils/whatever that might be working with Valin in this manner so that I could RP it accordingly. Also, a DM to help me RP such things in-game would be vastly appreciated if we could set something up.

Thanks for the input Iron, I'll brood over it. Wizard/Cleric seems to be an awful combination on a server with the power/magic level of Amia though. I'll discuss a competitive PvM build in the built topic sometime.

Does Falazure even exist in FR canon? The wiki lists his home plane as Carceri, which is not part of FR cosmology. So I'm thinking no.

Last edited by Jyro X on Thu, Jan 21 2010, 23:56 PM, edited 2 times in total.

762 wrote:

Does Falazure even exist in FR canon? The wiki lists his home plane as Carceri, which is not part of FR cosmology. So I'm thinking no.

I'm not sure what you mean by "canon" sorry if that sounds dumb. But, I was introduced to the deity by another PC in-game who follows Him.

And He -is- listed on the Amia wiki.

Edit: Also, not sure if it's a discrepancy or not, but in the 3.5 Draconomicon, it lists Falazure's home plane as Hades. Other than that, there's no differences.

What's the reasoning behind Death Armor being under the Necromancy spell school?

I've never really gotten that. It causes magical damage, not negative as if it were negative energy. Other than the word "Death" in its name it doesn't seem to have much with Necromancy at all.

Jyro X wrote:

762 wrote:

Does Falazure even exist in FR canon? The wiki lists his home plane as Carceri, which is not part of FR cosmology. So I'm thinking no.

I'm not sure what you mean by "canon" sorry if that sounds dumb. But, I was introduced to the deity by another PC in-game who follows Him.

And He -is- listed on the Amia wiki.

Edit: Also, not sure if it's a discrepancy or not, but in the 3.5 Draconomicon, it lists Falazure's home plane as Hades. Other than that, there's no differences.

Meaning from what I can tell he's not even a Forgotten Realms deity, nor is Hades a plane in the FR cosmology. I would therefore be inclined to ask a DM if it's even legit to worship him in this setting. Amia Wiki is player run BTW.

Draconomicon is not a Forgotten Realms source, so a deity listed there falls into a grey area you'd need a DM to rule on IMHO.

762 wrote:

Jyro X wrote:

762 wrote:

Does Falazure even exist in FR canon? The wiki lists his home plane as Carceri, which is not part of FR cosmology. So I'm thinking no.

I'm not sure what you mean by "canon" sorry if that sounds dumb. But, I was introduced to the deity by another PC in-game who follows Him.

And He -is- listed on the Amia wiki.

Edit: Also, not sure if it's a discrepancy or not, but in the 3.5 Draconomicon, it lists Falazure's home plane as Hades. Other than that, there's no differences.

Meaning from what I can tell he's not even a Forgotten Realms deity, nor is Hades a plane in the FR cosmology. I would therefore be inclined to ask a DM if it's even legit to worship him in this setting. Amia Wiki is player run BTW.

Draconomicon is not a Forgotten Realms source, so a deity listed there falls into a grey area you'd need a DM to rule on IMHO.

What would be a good source then? I also have the 3.5 Complete Divine.

Edit: Wow, in the Complete Divine, at least 3/4 of the Amian deities aren't listed as core deities or even lesser. Mayhaps it's not a good FR source either.

Sorry if I'm coming across completely ignorant. I just wanna make sure my RP has a good basis in FR lore... I'd be willing to change my BG's RP/faith with DM supervision if it were required.

Faiths & Pantheons would be the primary source of deities in FR.

Falazure is Eberon?

Complete Divine is not an FR book either, sorry. Dragons of Faerun is, but that might be hard to find. Can always try Google. I'm not sure if it adds any deities to the pantheon in any case.

Just about every deity is explained in detail in Faiths and Pantheons. There is no specific deity of dracoliches that I know of, so depending on what you are looking for you might be leaning towards either Tiamat or Velsharoon.

762 wrote:

Complete Divine is not an FR book either, sorry. Dragons of Faerun is, but that might be hard to find. Can always try Google. I'm not sure if it adds any deities to the pantheon in any case.

Just about every deity is explained in detail in Faiths and Pantheons. There is no specific deity of dracoliches that I know of, so depending on what you are looking for you might be leaning towards either Tiamat or Velsharoon.

Yep no mention of Falazure in Faiths and Pantheons. I'm going to look into Dragons of Faerun but I'm willing to bet there's nothing in there either.

Perhaps the list of deities support on Amia needs some revising if we're not supporting those such as Falazure? Limited to FR-only deities maybe. People would obviously be able to worship "false" gods, but they wouldn't be granted any benefits from prayer or anything else like that. No divine powers, etc.

But other than that, I bet I'm going to have to go with... Tiamat if anything given his history with the Cult of the Dragon. But that means reversing RP and developing new RP with a new bargain and new contract (which would be much easier and legit with a DM presence in-game). So, if a DM would like to do this RP with me in-game sometime, I'd definitely appreciate it.

According to FRCS, clerics who serve the Cult (which are rare) typically worship Bane, Shar, Talos, Talona, or Velsharoon, and less commonly Cyric, Gargauth, Malar, or Tiamat. If you are planning on having your blackguard do the same you may want to take that into account.

Falazure is an Amian deity, and his own deity. There will be no arguing about "Null" here. He has idols accordingly.

Dark Immolation wrote:

What's the reasoning behind Death Armor being under the Necromancy spell school?

I've never really gotten that. It causes magical damage, not negative as if it were negative energy. Other than the word "Death" in its name it doesn't seem to have much with Necromancy at all.

Because that's the school is was put in. Not all necromancy spells cause negative energy damage. Horrid Wilting is "withering damage", death armor is magical, and Undeath To Death is 'holy' power, at least in NWN. In PnP it simply says the spell "functions as Circle of Death except affecting undead creatures".

What plane is he on then, Tormak? I'm going to assume Dragon Eyrie.

Last edited by BlackDahlya on Fri, Jan 22 2010, 1:03 AM, edited 1 time in total.

TormakSaber wrote:

Falazure is an Amian deity, and his own deity. There will be no arguing about "Null" here. He has idols accordingly.

You probably know it, Tormie, but Draconomicon also has it there.

EDIT: Not a FR source, since it is Core DnD, but there it says he comes from Hades.

TormakSaber wrote:

Falazure is an Amian deity, and his own deity. There will be no arguing about "Null" here. He has idols accordingly.

So that means my RP doesn't have to change on my BG?

Btw 762, he's a Fighter/BG/Rogue - not cleric. So not sure what you were trying to say there.

762 wrote:

What plane is he on then, Tormak? I'm going to assume Dragon Eyrie.

Amia uses a conglomeratiom of both Core cosmology (you'll notice we've used places like Sigil, Mechanus, Celestia, Limbo: These places don't exist ni the Great Tree cosmos.) and FR cosmology. It's never explictly explained because IMHO it's not something the players need concern themselves with: If a DM whooshes you off to Arborea, then enjoy your stay in Arborea.

Regarding Falazure's place: It's probably the Dragon Eyrie. I am abysmal with the Great Tree Cosmology and am only really familiar with Core/The Great Wheel.

TormakSaber wrote:

Dark Immolation wrote:

What's the reasoning behind Death Armor being under the Necromancy spell school?

I've never really gotten that. It causes magical damage, not negative as if it were negative energy. Other than the word "Death" in its name it doesn't seem to have much with Necromancy at all.

Because that's the school is was put in. Not all necromancy spells cause negative energy damage. Horrid Wilting is "withering damage", death armor is magical, and Undeath To Death is 'holy' power, at least in NWN. In PnP it simply says the spell "functions as Circle of Death except affecting undead creatures".

To be fair, Horrid supposedly evaporates moisture from the targets. IMO pulling the water from a living creature until they're a dried, brittle husk still fits the bill of Necromancy. Magical damage just happens to be the only way to represent that.

The reason I ask is because one of my PC's finds Death Armor one of his favorite spells and I'd imagine he fancies it just a field of raw magical energy. I wasn't sure if the magical damage and it being under Necromancy meant it worked like Horrid though, evaporating and not really magical energy. Just minutiae that may impact his IC research.

Tormak to the rescue! ^^

But my initial question still remains:

Quote:

Given Falazure's home plane (-stricken from the record due to misconstruction-), are there any notable fiends on that plane that would be partnering with Valin in this manner? I'm not too big on that end of the lore to know what the name of a fiend/devil/whatever would be that would act as a medium/overseer to make sure that Valin is doing what he was contracted to do (Falazure's Dogma).

MAgical damage is magical damage. It's pretty WYSIWYG: Regardless of spell school, it makes a field of magic eenergy that hurts people who attack you.

TormakSaber wrote:

762 wrote:

What plane is he on then, Tormak? I'm going to assume Dragon Eyrie.

Amia uses a conglomeratiom of both Core cosmology (you'll notice we've used places like Sigil, Mechanus, Celestia, Limbo: These places don't exist ni the Great Tree cosmos.) and FR cosmology. It's never explictly explained because IMHO it's not something the players need concern themselves with: If a DM whooshes you off to Arborea, then enjoy your stay in Arborea.

Regarding Falazure's place: It's probably the Dragon Eyrie. I am abysmal with the Great Tree Cosmology and am only really familiar with Core/The Great Wheel.

I think you missed my edit above. Anyway, Draconomicon says Falazure's plane is Hades.

Just thought you would like to know.

I already knew.

Some places fit neatly together: for example the Hoouse of the Triad could feasibly be a portion of Celestia, and Brightwater in the CG plane. Tempus fits neatly in Ysgard and/or Acheron depending on good/evil bent at the time. So forth.

Some of the evil places don't fit as well too neatly though, and some of the oddbals don't, either. The dragon Eyrie is probably somehwere in the Beastlands if I had to make a guess. Don't take this as the final word on anything, though, beyond the fact that Falazure is an Amian Deity.

Jyro X wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Falazure is an Amian deity, and his own deity. There will be no arguing about "Null" here. He has idols accordingly.

So that means my RP doesn't have to change on my BG?

Btw 762, he's a Fighter/BG/Rogue - not cleric. So not sure what you were trying to say there.

My point was if your guy was a Cultist, those would make good patrons for his divine blackguard powers. But since Falazure is allowed in the campaign it's moot.

Back to your original question then, what kind of fiends would serve Falazure and grant BG powers to his followers? The only fiends common on Dragon Eyrie are abishai in the service of Tiamat, and you can probably forget about those.

We're then left contemplating what fiendish servant Falazure would use to do his dirty work, when he has none native to his plane that are likely to serve him. Your best candidate in my opinion would be a yugoloth, who would probably be a paid mercenary. How one would go about summoning one specifically in the employ of Falazure gets a little tricky, but maybe a DM can come up with some ideas on that. And how loyal a paid 'loth merc would be to his employer would be a whole nother story.

Meaning you might summon him to bargain for some divine powers from his employer, Falazure...but he might just try to sell you another package entirely, like maybe some juicy powers from his ultraloth overseer.

762 wrote:

Jyro X wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Falazure is an Amian deity, and his own deity. There will be no arguing about "Null" here. He has idols accordingly.

So that means my RP doesn't have to change on my BG?

Btw 762, he's a Fighter/BG/Rogue - not cleric. So not sure what you were trying to say there.

My point was if your guy was a Cultist, those would make good patrons for his divine blackguard powers. But since Falazure is allowed in the campaign it's moot.

Back to your original question then, what kind of fiends would serve Falazure and grant BG powers to his followers? The only fiends common on Dragon Eyrie are abishai in the service of Tiamat, and you can probably forget about those.

We're then left contemplating what fiendish servant Falazure would use to do his dirty work, when he has none native to his plane that are likely to serve him. Your best candidate in my opinion would be a yugoloth, who would probably be a paid mercenary. How one would go about summoning one specifically in the employ of Falazure gets a little tricky, but maybe a DM can come up with some ideas on that. And how loyal a paid 'loth merc would be to his employer would be a whole nother story.

Meaning you might summon him to bargain for some divine powers from his employer, Falazure...but he might just try to sell you another package entirely, like maybe some juicy powers from his ultraloth overseer.

With the disloyal nature of the Yugoloth's in the fray, one might say it might be possible for the fiend to work for another evil deity and therefore corrupt the Blackguard into a conversion as well? Given sufficient RP of course. That would make the PC much more flexible in that department, would it not?

That is entirely possible, yes. A 'loth's loyalty is to whomever pays it the best so the story there almost tells itself.

762 wrote:

That is entirely possible, yes. A 'loth's loyalty is to whomever pays it the best so the story there almost tells itself.

Then I'd probably most definitely need a DM to help me out in-game to get my fiend properly setup.

For sure! Good luck with it, it sounds like some fun RP.

Btw, this may help explain Valin a bit more to DM's needing to know the backstory/reasons for becoming a Blackguard:

http://amiawiki.shatuga.com/index.php/Valin_Blackheart

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