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TormakSaber wrote:

Jyro X wrote:

Dark Immolation wrote:

What does counterspelling look like?

When one mage counterspells another, does it look as if the counterspelling mage is mimicing the hand motions of the first, perhaps backwards, and then the opponent's spell just doesn't appear?

Or, in case that every spell can be countered by itself, do both appear and collide or something? I suppose it would only work with projectiles, but always thought it would look classic if a mage casted Fireball and another mage casts it at the same time to make them collide and null the effect.

The counterspelling mage mimics the hand movements and chantings of the casting mage and the two spells cancel each other.

Such a definitive comment and yet: No source!

I would say the style of counterspelling depends on the spell and the counterspeller, just like how magic itself can be given personal flair and touches. The subtle and sly Arcane Trickster may mimic the gestures of the spell backwards and end the foe's spell that way. The grand Simbul of Aglarond may motion her arms and bring forth a mirror image of their spell that neutralizes the foe's upon contact.

I also imagine counterspelling looks different depending on if a Dispel was used, or an exact cpy used, or a specific counterspell used.

My comment has no source either but i gives players more creative freedom with a tiny detail not worth being a hardas over.

I was referring to how it looks in-game. As the question seemed to be presented thusly.

As far as counterspelling goes, the PHB says that you cast your spell and theirs stops. This would imply that if your spell has somatic components, you use them and not the other person's spell's. Beyond that, all the fizzling light is really up to the player.

I like Tormak's explanation. Magic and its casting is such a wide swath of methods in D&D, I'd expect the explanation that allows for a lot of variation. How it actually appears ingame is likely limited to the amount of care Bioware considered beyond having it work correctly, I'd imagine.

Basically it's one f those things that are left undescribed in he rules (afaik) that you can roleplay freely and imaginatively. It's up there for you to use creative licence, and I doubt that you'll get a definitive answer beyond implications and suggestions from the rules.

*Neo's everyone*

sorry to double post, but can anyone answer what ages a tiefling, aasimar, elf, drow, genasis or combinations of the sorts have as in child, teen, young adult, middle aged adult, old, death expectancy (if any)

any help would be appreciated, even if its just little small bits of info, im trying to collect this for my friend im getting into nwn, so anything would be nice to know, if no one knows i guess ill guess around and make assumptions until corrected. ^_^

Iron, in order to better establish my deathsinger RP, I'm trying to develop the backstory of the trade which is fairly easy given I have the Starlight & Shadows trilogy.

I was wondering though; Would it be against RP to reference the city of Ched Nesad as the most recently known origin of the practice? Or would Ched Nesad not even exist in Amia's rendition of FR lore?

Windwalker by Elaine Cunningham wrote:

Brindlor decided it was time to speak for himself. "I am Brindlor Zidorian of Ched Nesad, a deathsinger famed for songs of dark glory."

Thanks in advance for any replies.

EDIT: And I know FR Wiki is not a good source for 3.5 lore, but here's the link to explain a bit more about Ched Nesad.

EDIT2: This is what I have written down so far about deathsingers (with quite a bit added from my own perspectives with no concrete source). I'd just like to make sure it's all kosher before I go around RP'g it everywhere.

Quote:

Deathsinger

A deathsinger is a specialist bard that holds the power to beckon the whims of death itself. An exceptionally gifted deathsinger's ballads can raise the dead in an undead form and also send the dead on to their afterlife (assuming their spirit is willing).

The only known deathsinger in Forgotten Realms history is Brindlor Zidorian, a drow from the book "Windwalker" by Elaine Cunningham:

Quote:
"I am Brindlor Zidorian of Ched Nesad, a deathsinger famed for songs of dark glory."

This leads a reader to believe that the most well-known origin of the trade in recent memory resides in the drow city of Ched Nesad. A deathsinger's primary function is to deliver the news of dead individuals to those who hire them. This makes the deathsinger trade a very popular one amongst bards who have multi-classed in assassin and the like. Double pay if you will.

For the most part, deathsingers choose to stay out of the fray and watch the events from afar, composing their songs as they watch. However, some deathsingers are quite adept at battle and do not hold such inhabitions. Many will in fact relish in the slaughter and sing haunting melodies telling of their fallen foes as well as allies.

Many people view deathsingers as bad omens or bad luck due to their gruesome nature. They are there to witness a death and record the details of it. For that fact, a deathsinger generally lives a very lonesome life and has a hard time finding a home anywhere. But that can also be attributed to a bard's free spirit. Generally, if a deathsinger finds acceptance anywhere, it's usually with a traveling mercenary band or something similar. And they are usually reduced to little more than a court bard, singing the tales of dark glory for which their band is famous for.

Deathsingers are an entirely made up bollocks class. The one you're looking for is "Dirgesinger".

Gexx44 wrote:

sorry to double post, but can anyone answer what ages a tiefling, aasimar, elf, drow, genasis or combinations of the sorts have as in child, teen, young adult, middle aged adult, old, death expectancy (if any)

any help would be appreciated, even if its just little small bits of info, im trying to collect this for my friend im getting into nwn, so anything would be nice to know, if no one knows i guess ill guess around and make assumptions until corrected. ^_^

Tiefling, Aasimar and Genasi are all "base race + d20" lifespan, iirc. Which means their basic age categories are unchanged. Races of Faerun would know3 for sure.

I'll leave Elves and Drow to someone more knowledgeable than KI.

thanks a lot tormak saber! ^_^

TormakSaber wrote:

Deathsingers are an entirely made up bollocks class. The one you're looking for is "Dirgesinger".

Seems quite similar but not exactly the same. Dirgesingers really hold no type of necromantic sway whatsoever from the sources I've been able to find on it. And I was never claiming a "Deathsinger Class." Merely a trade/job.

Quote:

Dirgesingers voice melodies not of celebration and joy, but of sorrow and grief. They seek to spread this melancholy outlook far and wide, believing that only those who give in to their sadness can truly understand the world.

Deathsingers aren't like that. They don't believe in giving in to sadness like that. They just believe in properly representing the woe and sorrow of a death in their lamenting ballads.

ind that you're pulling all of this from some random character in a novel.

TormakSaber wrote:

ind that you're pulling all of this from some random character in a novel.

Actually multiple characters' interactions with that one "random" character, but yes. Sure.

where can I find out information on red dragon disciples? there seems to be like nooo information on them anywhere

*strike that!

I was wondering if anyone could give me the title of a source book that talks about Pale Masters in depth?

Something that's not a wiki-article please.

Libris Mortis.

It doesn't talk about them in depth, though. It just briefly describes the Prestige Class, along with half a dozen others. That's the case for almost every Prestige Class out there: they're detailed in two pages of tables, numbers and short descriptions, and that's all there is.

IronAngel wrote:

Libris Mortis.

It doesn't talk about them in depth, though. It just briefly describes the Prestige Class, along with half a dozen others. That's the case for almost every Prestige Class out there: they're detailed in two pages of tables, numbers and short descriptions, and that's all there is.

That's all I'm really looking for honestly. I appreciate the swift reply. I'm just trying to compound information about the classes/trades of my characters so that I can more effectively RP them.

Also trying to update/refine info on the Amia Wiki.

Libris Mortis and even the DMG will help you with the PM.

Yurell wrote:

Libris Mortis and even the DMG will help you with the PM.

DMG?

And I've already transcribed a lot of the info about PM's from Libris Mortis. I'm just looking for anything extra that might need to be added, lore-wise. The mechanical differences between a PnP PM and NWN PM are already staggering enough as is.

Jyro X wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Libris Mortis and even the DMG will help you with the PM.

DMG?

And I've already transcribed a lot of the info about PM's from Libris Mortis. I'm just looking for anything extra that might need to be added, lore-wise. The mechanical differences between a PnP PM and NWN PM are already staggering enough as is.

Sorry, Dungeon Master's Guide. If you've already read the Libris Mortis, though, I doubt you'll gain any more information from it - I just suggested it since it seemed more likely someone would buy the DMG than the Libris Mortis.

Just a heads up guys. One of the biggest public collections of Dragon Magazine Dr Mikes Steak House has been removed. However, I have access to another, so if you need anything from the Dragon Magazine stuff, give me a yell, as I have all the issues avaliable.

http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/realms.html

That site is a directory of Articles in Dragon Magazine, though it's probably not up to date.

Probably the wrong place to link that since Dragon Magazine isn't canon lore.

Well actually, given some of the articles are written by Ed Greenwood himself, some things are canon I imagine. Others provide lore and information on things not gone into detail about in books, stuff that maybe is to small to bother writing about in a full FR rulebook, or stuff thought up later.

If you want to get really specfic, what is canon lore in a world which the DM creates the world he wants?

Well, you can always ask here if we consider it canon.

What Tormak said to. For example, there is a lovely useful piece in issue 123 of Dragon Magazine on music in the forgotten realms. It introduces a few instruments that exists primarly in the Forgotten Realms. The article is written by Ed Greenwood, so the instruments could probably be considered canon.

Another example is a nice piece of the Ecology of the Realms. Plants and such. Very useful if your looking for rare poisons to flesh out RP.

Are there any famous thieves in FR that there is written something about on accesible websites? And in 'thieves' I mean actual thieves. Not assassins or dungeon crawlers, but people who break into houses and steal stuff, or pick pockets.

QPR wrote:

Are there any famous thieves in FR that there is written something about on accesible websites? And in 'thieves' I mean actual thieves. Not assassins or dungeon crawlers, but people who break into houses and steal stuff, or pick pockets.

Dang. That's a good question. I was about to say Artemis Entreri (he's stolen a lot of stuff, incliding even like a soul or something IIRC), but the not being an assassin part kinda cuts him outta that. He's the arguably one of the best there is at that.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Rogues

That's the FRwiki page listing all I guess semi-famous to famous Rogues in the Realms, but that doesn't necessarily make them thieves, I suppose. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can tell a few by name so you won't have to scour the whole page.

QPR wrote:

Are there any famous thieves in FR that there is written something about on accesible websites? And in 'thieves' I mean actual thieves. Not assassins or dungeon crawlers, but people who break into houses and steal stuff, or pick pockets.

I'm shocked at how little I have on famous thieves, but I do know a bit about a few famous thieves guilds. For instance, The Blind Tower, which has a famous thief for a leader.

The Blind Tower began as a crime spree that never ended. It was founded by a thief named "Mister Dark" (I know, right?), a daring cat burglar, over thirty years ago after he robbed a series of heavily guarded vaults, noble treasuries and other locations. Essentially, it's your typical thieves' guild. They take contracts, hire out thieves and thugs alike to adventurers and other types, and they do their own individual work as well.

The catch is that to be initiated into the Blind Tower, you have to have pulled off an act of skill and mastery so grand, without being caught, that it attracts the attention of the Blind Tower's associates. After that, you also must perform a special initiate's task to gain full membership.

RuffTuff wrote:

QPR wrote:

Are there any famous thieves in FR that there is written something about on accesible websites? And in 'thieves' I mean actual thieves. Not assassins or dungeon crawlers, but people who break into houses and steal stuff, or pick pockets.

I'm shocked at how little I have on famous thieves, but I do know a bit about a few famous thieves guilds. For instance, The Blind Tower, which has a famous thief for a leader.

The Blind Tower began as a crime spree that never ended. It was founded by a thief named "Mister Dark" (I know, right?), a daring cat burglar, over thirty years ago after he robbed a series of heavily guarded vaults, noble treasuries and other locations. Essentially, it's your typical thieves' guild. They take contracts, hire out thieves and thugs alike to adventurers and other types, and they do their own individual work as well.

The catch is that to be initiated into the Blind Tower, you have to have pulled off an act of skill and mastery so grand, without being caught, that it attracts the attention of the Blind Tower's associates. After that, you also must perform a special initiate's task to gain full membership.

I'm not surprised at a lack of 'famous' thief info. Why? Because if you're doing it right, no one will know you've done anything at all. Hence, a lack of fame/infamy.

And in all truth, you really don't become "famous" in FR for just pickpocketing people and doing regular burglar stuff like breaking into regular houses. It's kinda an expected way of life for some, with all the brigands that may lurk some random stretch of road, I imagine. You may be the best there is in town, maybe even a local legend, but on an individual level you likely don't get remembered unless you steal something that affects a whole nation or people(at least the wealthy ones or those with authority).

Now stealing from nobility and breaking into estates to get art, that seems snazzy. Perhaps cliche, but it's a good standby for a story and motive, notheless. I know of no lone thieves in FR lore that are like this, though.

i was wandering about dwarven death rituals. Anyone knows something about it?

Dead wrote:

i was wandering about dwarven death rituals. Anyone knows something about it?

I know that they might get offended if you're wandering about and just stroll into one of their funerals without invitation. :wink:

Quote:

As Keeper of Secrets Under the Mountain, Dumathoin is the dwarves' protector in death. While it may have been otherwise in the early days of dwarven civilization, Dumathoin's priests have been the primary morticians and tomb protectors since the latter days of Ammarindar, the lost dwarven realm that existed as a contemporary of Netheril. In fact, priests of Dumathoin do their god justice as Keeper of Secrets, for it is incredibly difficult to find dwarven tombs at all, let alone plumb their mysteries.

Quote:

Among the various burial practices used by priests of Dumathoin, there are only three set precepts that must be met. First, the body must be washed, and three or more stone burial tokens—the corpse's personal mark, the clan's mark, and Dumathoin's mark—must be braided into the deceased's beard. Second, the corpse is clothed in his or her own armor or a light suit of mail burial armor. (No matter what trade a dwarf plied in life, none enters the afterlife unarmored and unreadied.) Finally, the priest presiding over the burial must create a song honoring the dead dwarf's life and deeds; the song is carved into the lid of the coffin or sarcophagus (or when in a large clan tomb with numerous niches for fallen dwarves, onto the back of a mausoleum seal, a plaque, or a marker covering the recess where the deceased is buried).

The song is never sung out loud in honor of the ever-silent Dumathoin. If someone finds it and speaks or sings it aloud, it is believed that a curse will settle on the one who committed the sacrilege. (Some suggest that the corpse itself might reanimate and smite the offender.)

Burial practices may change slightly to suit particular clans, but a number of alterations in typical burial practices occur upon the passing of a dwarf deserving of special status. In general, there are simply more ceremonies, and more attention is paid to the construction of the tomb. The following are some specific variations that might be found in the burials of important dwarves:

* The burial of a priest is a more convoluted and lengthy process, incorporating aspects of Dumathoin's worship and that of the god whom the priest served. Priests therefore tend to be buried within well-guarded tombs, and their sarcophagi are surrounded by (if not buried under) tokens and offerings from the priest's friends and faithful. Priests of Clangeddin or Moradin are often interred with the remains of their greatest conquered adversary, ensuring a grand afterlife of battle against dwarffoes. Unlike many other dwarven tombs, priests' spells are used heavily in the interment of a priest to protect the remains and offerings (and, some hint, to prevent the gods from calling on their servants after their time has passed).
* Clan allies of any race can be interred within dwarven tombs, but only if they fell in battle defending the allied clan, the tomb, or a place sacred to Dumathoin.
* While others are buried with standard ceremony and accouterments, wizards are always clad in robes made of woven silver and sealed in solid silver sarcophagi (or a burial creche lined with silver); this is due to a superstition born of an old dwarven myth that Dumathoin paid Mystra his weight in silver to garner his faithful protection from the magics that disturb the sleep of the dead. While there is believed to be little truth in this legend, the custom still prevails.
* Clan outcasts (assuming a priest of Dumathoin willing to officiate over their burials can even be found) are buried without a clan mark in their beards, and their coffins or burial place markers often depict the broken or marred symbols of their former clans.

From: http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/dwarvengods/Dumathoin.htm

question- is there a referance for what a halruaan accent would sound like?

Query: In the Forgotten Realms, is there any sore of possible spell/ritual that would change the race of a character? I have been thinking about something and wondering if it were possible, and if so, what sourcebook would I go to check?

Drakos_Vek wrote:

Query: In the Forgotten Realms, is there any sore of possible spell/ritual that would change the race of a character? I have been thinking about something and wondering if it were possible, and if so, what sourcebook would I go to check?

Denied on Amia.

Reincarnation is a spell which upon death makes you come back as an adolescent creature from like halfies to humans to even a trog.

But, as a heads up, DMs will likely never agree or allow any PC to change his/her race in the least, despite what spells and methods exist in PnP.

Edit: And it's Tormak for the photo finish.

Question about casting. Big surprise, eh?

I know scrolls are often written in draconic, elven, or dwarven runes. Are the verbal components of Arcane spells in those languages as well? I'm sure it varies from caster to caster, but still a curiousity. And if so, can the words vary with each casting, or is it the same word/phrase every time? (For wizzies, I imagine the same, but for sorcs *shrug*).

Don't believe there's any hard lore on that. At least to my knowledge. I've always thought of magic as having it's own "tongue" (sort of like highly technical jargon, though not a true language in it's own right) but using one of the above scripts for writing purposes. That accounts for the fact that not every scroll-reader knows and speaks Draconic, Elven, or Dwarven.

Here's a question:

How well if at all do the Mulan/Mulhorandi and the Halruaan peoples get along? (and how common knowledge is it?)

In the Councelors and Kings trilogy, Mulhorand tried to invade Halruaa in the recent past. I'm not sure how it ends in the third book, though. Both have their unique magic traditions, and they don't share. Right now, though, I can imagine there's little interaction: there's the Shaar inbetween, and Mulhorand is busy elsewhere.

You could probably find this in the politics section of either kingdom in the books that discuss them. If I remember, I'll dig it up later.

Other than the spells featured in NWN(FW, GMW, TS, BS, perhaps even Tenser's), what are some other melee-enchancing Arcane spells in PnP?

Another weird question. Would/should a summoned Shadow be able to see a Shadow Dancer in HiPS? I'm not sure of the whole mechanics on if HiPS involves the Shadow Plane, but wondering if a Shadow would have insight as to what exactly is going on.

Can paladins take up Shadowdancing, Or would that be a rocket up somebody's A** lore wise?

DarkImmolation: HiPS has nothing to do with the Plane of Shadow. So no, shadows wouldn't see them automatically (though I imagine they get Spot bonuses in darkness, or should get).

Svensk: depends on the god. Most gods and cultures would find that dishonorable. However, I can see a few paladin orders employing such means, the Knights of the Shadowy Cloak particularly. They still wouldn't assassinate you from behind without warning, but after the duel's on, I don't see why it would be dishonorable.

Last edited by alamut on Mon, Feb 08 2010, 2:00 AM, edited 1 time in total.

*wrong post*

IronAngel wrote:

Svensk: depends on the god. Most gods and cultures would find that dishonorable. However, I can see a few paladin orders employing such means, the Knights of the Shadowy Cloak particularly. They still wouldn't assassinate you from behind without warning, but after the duel's on, I don't see why it would be dishonorable.

Check out the Champions of Valor Web Enhancement for the Shadowcloak Knight - whoever wrote that agrees with that post enough to give Gnome Paladins of that order HiPS at level 6. If only.

Ooh, I didn't even know there was a web enhancement! Got a link?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a

Awesome, thanks. If paladins weren't lame, I'd make one! I've come to appreciate the coolness of Baravar. Wizard/SD, maybe.

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