AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Hi Folks,

Well, my druid reached the level of having a dragon summon. But, I dislike the idea of enslaving a creature as might as a dragon, being a druid and all to help me when I am in harm's way.

I was researching about the subject and it seems that it is very uncommon in Faerun for someone, does not really matter the race, to become friends of a dragon and have the dragon come and risk his skin to save theirs.

So, I am thinking that I have very few solutions, someone told me about paying the dragon with gems and stuff; someone told me that I could say I used Animal Empathy on the dragon. I honestly keep thinking that she will need a hell of an empathy to get a dragon, and loads of stuff and gems to pay every time she calls for help. so, maybe finding an egg somewhere in Amia and helping the baby dragon would be a neat background and then the dragon grows up and now defend her.

I wouldn't mind having to wait to use that summon to his full potential while I work that story. But, I honestly dont have an idea where in Amia could she find a lost dragon egg. Since it seems if she steals it, the little dragon will see her as a predator and if she asks for it she will become elf in the barbecue sauce.

So, any suggestions?

TBQH I dislike EDK for this sole reason alone, as it really does give people a 'free Dragon PC'. Not a shot against you, Del, just a general "Geh". It makes these sorts of problems, confusion, and ultimately errors.

As for a Draconic Friend - you're unlikely to get one out of most, Chaotic, Dragons. This includes Copper, Brass, and Prismatic mainly (Evils in general will hate anyone who tries to summon them). Universally; dragons see non-dragons, especially humanoids, more akin to 'Pets' at best ,and 'Food' at worst. Even Metallics.

Immediately upon hatching, a dragon (excluding a White), has at least 12 Intelligence. It can already speak Draconic fluently, already knows how to fly (though it takes some time for their body to permit it), and already knows it's a superior creature to most anything else. A humanoid 'taking care' of an egg is likely either to be killed by the Dragon for being seen as a captor - or simply escaped from for being seen as a 'well meaning fool'.

The only way a Dragon is likely to, willingly, go out of their way to save anyone's skin is mutual benefit. A Bronze, for example, may assist a combative or war-like mage if the dragon found that said human could bring them to various, righteous, battles that couldn't be gotten to otherwise. Some lawful dragons may consider assistance out of honour, were the dragon somehow saved by the humanoid, but that's the exception; not the rule. Mostly applies to Silvers.

My personal suggestion to anyone wanting an EDK that isn't just a Dragon that is summoned (unwillingly) as per the spell's standard behaviour itself is to pay 10 DCs and make it not-a-dragon. It saves headaches everywhere.

BrainSplitter wrote:

Some lawful dragons may consider assistance out of honour, were the dragon somehow saved by the humanoid, but that's the exception; not the rule. Mostly applies to Silvers.

My personal suggestion to anyone wanting an EDK that isn't just a Dragon that is summoned (unwillingly) as per the spell's standard behaviour itself is to pay 10 DCs and make it not-a-dragon. It saves headaches everywhere.

Well, if I consider the silver dragon I would have to find some way to save one or something. If I consider a re-skin it needs to be some giant something right? Isn't it the rules? And whatever it is if is a living creature I don't think my druid would enslave it, so it would have to be befriended. So...

And, honestly people take EDK for granted, it would be nice if we had to have a background story for all the dragons in the server. Someone offered the idea of a Roc.

I would -love- to see a Roc Summon, actually. They're an awesome creature. I used them briefly with the Calishite Armada, actually.

Sadly the only way to do it is a 200% Eagle, which looks a bit weird.

Without extensive speed of plot or other things, you could never hatch a dragon and have it 'grow up' to the size of EDK in any reasonable timespan.

I kinda messed up when I had first got EDK and I had it be a mutual thing where Willow could summon him and she would help him defend his home and with other tasks also. Although it was semi-legit, I guess, it left a sour taste in my mouth. That's not the reason I re-skinned it, just a story. Oh, and Dragons aren't animals so you can't AE them.

Truth be told, the EDK isn't your "slave," per say. It still lives and does as it likes, it just gets suddenly summoned to you whenever you call it. By the way, this is true for almost all of summons, by default. If you summon an Elemental, that Elemental is being taken from it's plane for that short period. I guess you can say it's "momentary slavery" or something. It's certainly not true slavery though. Druids are the masters of summoning too.

My EDK re-skin summon is ripped from the feywilds, just like any summon by default. I have story behind all my summons though. The only summons that aren't ripped for Willow are her pack of wolves, since she's a pack leader. I think it leaves a more genuine feel to rip them from where they're summoned from without their consent. Maybe it's just me, but it rubs me the wrong way when all of someones summons are "their friends that are totally cool with being summoned whenever" by the PC. What comes to mind when that's the case is "damn, you must have CHA beyond Sune, Sharess, Oghma and Milil rolled into one!"

Also with the new summon choices for Epic Mummy Dust you could get yourself a Magical Beast/Construct/Elemental/Planar to summon instead. And if you took Epic Spell Focus Conjuration than it would still extend the durations of the Magical Beast/Planar, if you don't want to summon a dragon because it seems silly.

what type of magical beasts come with the mummy dust and what construct?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47046&start=0

Quote:

The options you have:
Outsider (Epic Conjuration Extends, Alignment Based Summon)
Construct (Epic Transmutation Extends)
Elemental (Epic Evocation Extends)
Magical Beast (Epic Conjuration Extends)
Undead (Epic Necromancy Extends)

The Summons

Good Outsider: Arcadian Avenger
Neutral Outsider: Githzerai Savant
Evil Outsider: Corruptor of Fate (Appearance Credit Dwagin)

Construct: Marut Inevitable
Elemental: Ancient Air Elemental
Magical Beast: Sirrush

Undead: Pharoah Sentinel

May not work for druids, but before I retired my Conjuration cleric, I played that the dragon was a servant of her deity, who helped out on occasion. They were both Lawful and followed the same deity, so it seemed to work.

BrainSplitter wrote:

I would -love- to see a Roc Summon, actually. They're an awesome creature. I used them briefly with the (censored) Armada, actually.

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

May not work for druids, but before I retired my Conjuration cleric, I played that the dragon was a servant of her deity, who helped out on occasion. They were both Lawful and followed the same deity, so it seemed to work.

Yeah, this'd be my preferred solution if I had a dragon. You both have the same boss who tells you to work together.

I dont know if Mielikki would be the boss of a dragon, but it is a good explanation. And Grave I love the Roc idea because Arielle has a hawk and she loves birds. But, if it will be a weird giant eagle thing, it kind of blows the idea :cry:

Oi, I found this: Lurue (pronounced luh-RUE [1]), also known as the Unicorn Queen or the Queen of Talking, is a chaotic good archfey who is often worshiped as a goddess of intelligent and talking beasts. Lurue teaches that life is there to be lived, and one should live it with zest and flair. Adventures and quests should be taken on a whim and life should be filled with good times and laughter. She is worshiped by many unicorns, pegasi, and other intelligent non-humanoid creatures, as well as by romantic and swashbuckling adventurers. Although preferring adventure and exploration instead of battle, if forced into a fight she is an intractable foe.

Lurue is one of the followers of Mielikki with Gwaeron Windstrom and Shiallia. It says she is the goddess of intelligent and talking beasts, would that include a dragon?

If so, then my background story would be that the dragon actually serves Lurue and is helping Arielle to protect the Druir, the Grove, Amia Forest and actually all the forests of that Island. Would it be a good background then? And if it is a good background, can my red dragon be changed by a metallic? I doubt a red dragon would follow Lurue into doing protection work. Also Lurue is an enemy of Malar for obvious reasons and the dragon would very much dislikes Malarites. Of course we would have to hunt the Forest of Despair every once in a while to have Lurue and Mielikki enemies down. So, I would be using Bobo's idea if I go with the dragon, at least until I find a creature I can reskin it to.

"Intelligent and talking beasts" are things like sphinxes, unicorns, etc. Dragons are their own thing, the race you want is "Magical Beast".

IronAngel wrote:

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

May not work for druids, but before I retired my Conjuration cleric, I played that the dragon was a servant of her deity, who helped out on occasion. They were both Lawful and followed the same deity, so it seemed to work.

Yeah, this'd be my preferred solution if I had a dragon. You both have the same boss who tells you to work together.

Xavi hardly ever summons anything (except her bottled companion, which doesn't fight) because she believes it's wrong to engage in even 'momentary slavery'. I even had her look into having guardian golems in the Temple of Love (like the Eili shrine ones) but she nixed that IC because it involved binding a spirit. I'd definitely go for the 'same boss' line, but to me it's pushing the envelope of believability when you keep throwing it into a fight to suffer and die for you. Honestly, if I were that servant, I wouldn't feel much like helping out after a while. :lol:

"To compel a being by magical means, especially a sentient one, to do your will is to remove choice from it, to cut it off from the blessing of Sharess. To force it to give up its very life at your command is to force it to commit suicide, it is to force another to experience fear and pain and the end of all pleasure for your own needs. The only person who truly deserves slavery is the one who enslaves others."

I am looking into the magical beasts too.. I made a list of the ones I would want, but I doubt any of it we will have in the toolset:

Hipogriff, Lammasu, Lillend, Giant Owl or Eagle, Gynosphinx and a Triton. The Tree guy someone already have it, I wont pick that one. The Lammasu would be a good help and such and it looks like a giant Sphinx I think. But, between a Giant Sphinx and a Bronze Dragon I would go with the dragon. <.<

The Giant Owl and Eagle would be awesome as I said before. The Gynosphinx I doubt we have in the toolset and same for the Hipogriff. I wouldn't take a Golem ever because it takes one elemental to be bond to it. So, running out of ideas that a druid could use and that are available in Amia.

So, maybe the dragon is the easier. It wouldn't be bond, summoned or enslaved. The Bronze Dragon would come to help because of his friendship with Mielikki and Lurue. He would do because he does like the small creatures and seem to enjoy being around them. He won't be eating loads of creatures and destroying nature because he can shift into a smaller creature. Well, the description I found:

Bronze Dragon: They truly enjoy observing and interacting with smaller creatures, most especially humans. They will often go out of their way to help them, such as rescuing humans from a shipwreck or a dangerous foe. In many of these instances, the bronze dragon will transform itself into a human, so that those who it helps never know who really did the rescuing. They never seek payment for their help, in any form. They always seek justice as best they can, and cannot abide to see any creature being treated with cruelty of any sort. The older the dragon, the more pronounced that this passion for justice becomes. They are probably the most social species of dragon, and often swim and play together in groups. They also love to attend human festivals and parties, although usually in human form.

I could so have a Bronze to protect the forests of Amia with my Elf. It is a noble cause. To fight the demons, devils and undead and evil creatures too would be a good cause. I would pay to change the standard one into a Bronze too.

And Actually, Elementals speak? If they do, could they be considered a magical creature helping Lurue? Because honestly, what is a druid without her elemental to go into evil places? And no my druid wouldn't enslave them not even for a second. She would call on them and hope they would answer and help because they are 1) neutral; 2) found of Lurue and the Gods of Nature; 3) as Elementals they are very close to nature and prone to help it?

And Xaviera, my bird never dies, they only fly away when they are too hurt. It is an agreement.

Also, my elementals, they are just dismissed before they die so they can go back safely home. I don't rp death of something that will come back over and over and over again.

Sooo.. is it plausible?

If you want to wait, I have an additional material from Faiths & Panteons that I downloaded from WotC where there is information such as colors prefered by a deity, the way they tend to appear/manifest and favored creatures.

I am working now and do not have the material here, but I should be home within 7 hours. If you want, I can check it for you.

I have the book of Faith and Pantheons Dhalya.

I am working on a story to use as background to have a Bronze Dragon helping her to protect the forests of Amia. I want it to be a re-skin request and such.

Or maybe something else.. Mielikki has a human avatar, and she uses Lurue as unicorn to go into battle. There is no animal or creature that is really related to her that I could use. Also no dragon on her story.

I know that for example, in the Song of Trees ritual, they call forth a dryad or a Treant and serve it by performing small tasks for a day. But, that is the only thing in the book.

But, I am thinking on going with the Bronze dragon. Just need to prepare the request.

Na, Elementals aren't magical beasts, they're actually Outsiders.

Elementals are a class of outsiders special enough to recieve their own "class" and racial trappings, sort of like how dragons are different than "magical beasts".

Elemental Type

An elemental is a being composed of one of the four classical elements: air, earth, fire, or water.
Features

An elemental has the following features.

* 8-sided Hit Dice.
* Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
* Good saves depend on the element: Fortitude (earth, water) or Reflex (air, fire).
* Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits

An elemental possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning.
* Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
* Unlike most other living creatures, an elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life.
* Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) that it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Elementals do not eat, sleep, or breathe.

By the way, just because you're ripping a summon from their plane doesn't mean your Druid can't believe it's a servant of Mielikki that's being sent to help you. It's believable and it solves the problem with her guilt. Just a thought.

TormakSaber wrote:

Mosh has bandied about a few ideas about EDK (not nerfing) along the same idea as the mummy dust changes we did recently so you may want to hold off on this for the moment.

Quoting from a related request of Del's. This actually would be good news TBH as I had taken EDK with Tuomas, planning to eventually work on something suitable. I'll hold off on this and see what comes.

Don't get too excited. The discussed idea was basically" make all the alignments the same strengthwise and then let you pick colors".

Delarwyn wrote:

I have the book of Faith and Pantheons Dhalya.

I am working on a story to use as background to have a Bronze Dragon helping her to protect the forests of Amia. I want it to be a re-skin request and such.

Or maybe something else.. Mielikki has a human avatar, and she uses Lurue as unicorn to go into battle. There is no animal or creature that is really related to her that I could use. Also no dragon on her story.

I know that for example, in the Song of Trees ritual, they call forth a dryad or a Treant and serve it by performing small tasks for a day. But, that is the only thing in the book.

But, I am thinking on going with the Bronze dragon. Just need to prepare the request.

Not the book. Additional material that did not come with the book.

Woot! that seems interesting.

She's talking about the Do's and Don'ts file, I think. Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but it won't tell you anything about Mielikki or Lurue you don't already have in the book though. All it does is make it more accessible:

Mielikki:
Animals: hawks, songbirds, wolves
Monsters: dryads, satyrs, sprites, treants, unicorns

Lurue:
Animals/Plants: tressyms, white roses, red roses, daisies
Monsters: unicorns, pegasi, talking animals

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

She's talking about the Do's and Don'ts file, I think. Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but it won't tell you anything about Mielikki or Lurue you don't already have in the book though. All it does is make it more accessible:

Mielikki:
Animals: hawks, songbirds, wolves
Monsters: dryads, satyrs, sprites, treants, unicorns

Lurue:
Animals/Plants: tressyms, white roses, red roses, daisies
Monsters: unicorns, pegasi, talking animals

Yes, this is the one. I was trying to remember the name of the book.

I reskined EDK for my Istishia cleric to be a Primal Water Elemental, works great and has less headaches

Yea, get it reskinned.

To a dragon. . .theres an option under the Epic Mummy Dusts for those who want to reskin to elementals, constructs, animals/beasts/magical beasts or outsiders. Unless the team Vetted that idea.

Just double checking for clarity. With the new EMD summons:
-EDKs can now only be reskinned to another dragon
-EMD can be reskinned to anything of the same type as the summon (following the same request style that has always been in place)

Correct?

No, that is the opinion of one developer.

However, with this option now on the table you are far more likely to see an increase in the DMs telling you to take the appropriate summon.

I would honestly get it reskinned to something else, myself. I have three clerics - Kiira has a young silver, which has a background story to it. My other clerics, if I get them high enough, will likely end up requesting a reskin.

I like the idea of the Roc, as well.

What about a 'Dire Bear" just a normal dire bear but 100% larger to actually appear like an adult Dire Bear.. would sure as hell make sence of the fear aura. A full grown Dire Tiger is pritty damned big too. Then there is options like a Trent, if there is some sort of suitable skin for it.. i always throught a Trent would be the best answer for a Druid's EDK reskin. But im not sure if there is a Trent suitable skin in the game now or not.

There is. Its massive.

I'll second. I've seen it, it's huge.

Xenos wrote:

But im not sure if there is a Trent suitable skin in the game now or not.

I think one Trent Blake is bad enough.

I would love to have a Trent, I thought about that when I saw it in the book. But, I am not so sure if the person that asked for it would be all that happy that his idea, once original is now being copied. I also like the Bullette that is the the base for Poorvicent creature.

I am for now keeping the idea of the Bronze Dragon and I wrote a background story for it. I may go with the Trent, not sure though. I dont want a giant animal if it is not a bird and yes Rocs are great and fits my character so well. Maybe Moshi can make a Roc that works. *winks to Moshi*

It's a Treant. *seethe*

Yeah, but I think "Summon Trent" would be way more effective. Granted, likely to get every bad guy and half the good guys on the island to gang up on you.

Lol!! I liked Trent Blake... But, I guess I was one of the few that did. Well, Xavi did too.

And in the book of monsters it is called Triton or they are two different creatures?

Two dfifferent creatures.

Tritons are an underwater species of humanoids, if memory calls.

Treants, are .. well, you probably have a good idea.

Your hardly stealing someone elses idea, Del, if you used a Treant. If anything we can say it was my idea from over a year ago when i played my little Druid and im loaning it to you. But im sure someone else thought of it before that, but like them, i was unable to do a Treant becouse of lack of suitable skins.

Me: Trent Blake, i choose you!
Trent: Trent Trent, Trent Blake!

Ya ya..

LOl, Vael you are right, they are in the same page and I got both mixed up.

Is it true that if you chose an EDK you can only get a dragon? So, if I want to go with the Treant I will have to delevel and choose the mummy dust thing?

The Treant and Arielle have the same alignment.

Do I need to create a background story for the reskin? I can, I know there is a ritual that druids are required to perform once a month called Song of Trees, it would call forth or a dryad or a Treant and the druid would serve that creature for an entire day. Maybe that Treant decided to help Arielle to protect Amia forest and such.

But, how will I justify that a Treant would hunt with her? When you call forth a Treant where does it come from? The Beast Lands?

You can use a Treant if you want to. I didn't choose it to be "cool" or "unique" in any way. I knew that eventually other Druids would start to choose them for reskins too. If you want the Treant and you feel it fits your PC, by all means, go for it.

Also, the Song of the Trees isn't required to be preformed by all Druids. It's a Silvanite/Mielikkian ritual.

Treants, being fey, come from the feywilds. Of course, like many creatures of the feywilds, a lot of them have become very at home on the prime and aren't necessarily born or from the feywilds anymore.

There are plenty ways to justify why you can summon a Treant, just gotta think about it a bit. Get creative, have fun, write a story, etc.

Delarwyn wrote:

Is it true that if you chose an EDK you can only get a dragon? So, if I want to go with the Treant I will have to delevel and choose the mummy dust thing?

TormakSaber wrote:

No, that is the opinion of one developer.

However, with this option now on the table you are far more likely to see an increase in the DMs telling you to take the appropriate summon.

Now given their sheet, id say their more akin to a Construct as far as immunities go. Thier immune to mind spells, Crit, poisen, sleep, stunning. Im not sure what the immunties on the other Mummy dust creatures alows.

One thing to consider when using it, though, is where you summon it. A Treant is mostly interested in defending the forest or trees in general. So having it out while hunting, depending on where you are, is rather odd. Should you ever have it out while killing Fire Giants in that lava cave, i would hope a DM would kill it and remove your skinning item. Basicly just use it responsably if its what you go for.

Why would it not be okay to use outside of a forested area? They're a summon and get called whenever you call it, regardless of the environment. It's not what the Treant is interested in, it's what you're interested in since you're the one who's summoning it.

People overanalyze summons. They're combat spells that conjure up big monsters to fight for you, and that's what they were intended to do. There's no "why" beyond "because you summoned them." It's not wrong, because your god gives you the power. That's all that needs to be said. Of course, it's cool to have more fluff if you can think of something interesting, but you shouldn't make much of a problem of it.

The way I see it Iron you are summoning a living creature. As a mage without contact with nature or such I wouldn't care much, unless I am lawful good or neutral good. But, otherwise it is a summon I can call it, it comes and it will do the job.

However, as a druid of Mielikki I cannot see me summoning a giant tree being into a lava place filled with fire giants. I actually wouldn't and I think Xenos is right about that. I would rather call my cold elemental inside that place. Actand I would probably summon it, but the boat thing makes it all a bit difficult. Then, we have the Abyss that is a place to put your good dragons to fight, but that I could call forth a Treant to help me to battle evil. But, honestly I would rather use my summons respecting what they are. Using a Treant to protect the forest, conscious of where I am summoning it and such.

Constructs are cool because you can actually summon them anywhere. But, the fact that you use an elemental bond to them is something I doubt my druid would do. I dont see sense in druids having constructs.

I think I may over think it all, but I also think most players will take the advantage of the summons, whichever summon it is and forget to think about the rp of having it there. NO, I wouldn't call my Treant inside the spires or over fiery places.

I still don't see the logic behind it, to be honest. How is summoning your companion in the spires really any "better" -- or "worse" for that matter? To use your choice as an example, Del, how is summoning an ice para-elemental better than summoning the Treant? Assuming your logic is that Treants can go up in flames and like being in forests, I think I can safely assume ice para-elementals don't consider being in a place full of lava all that enjoyable themselves. Now, I'm not saying summoning an ice para-elemental in the spires is stupid, wrong or counter to the Druidic way, I'm just playing devils advocate here. I think Treants and ice para-elementals are fine there. However, it's your choice to treat your summons however your PC might see fitting.

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