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Dwagin
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 Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 17:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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Basically:
What happens during Timestop, Is it more of a hiccup in time, or a mega-haste on the caster?. Spells are seen happening from a player point of view. What do other characters than the mage see?
Do the spells resolving within the duration of the timestop just 'Happen'. Do they happen without visual representation, do they all resolve at once to the vision of others.. etc etc.
Just trying from a lore-standpoint to see what 'occurs' from the Timestopee, opposed to the timestopper.
Obviously this is a question to staff, and I'd prefer no other sort of discussion or nerf complaints/balance arguements etc, as it has nothing to do with this topic.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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Glyph
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 17:21 PM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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the best answer I have been given is "time does not stop" with no further explaination. others have said something along the lines of haste, but frankly I don't get it, and the spell descriptions (core books and nwn) also fail to explain -what- is happening.
ed: I was first concerned about this when I was told freedom can cancel the effects of time stop, which made me both lol and rage. I still don't know if that ones true though.
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Lally
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 17:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.
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This question literally just put me into a theoretical coma because I started applying it to real life. 
_________________
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 17:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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Lore wise is a tricky question as the NWN version of the spell is not quite teh same as the standard D&D spell.
This is how I always thought of it.
From the non casters PoV. Imagine standing next to a mage and goblin. The mage casts timestop. Then he chucks a fireball at the goblin.
I see a Goblin. Then I blink. Then I see a smoldering pile of ashes.
I am not aware of anything that has happened in the timestop. I can only see the effects of whatever the mage has done while he was "mega-hasted" for those 9 seconds.
In fact I imagine its possible that someone could cast timestop and no-one would realise, unless the spellcaster affects the world in some way that someone would notice.
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 17:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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I had a feeling this post was coming, heh. Quote: I am not aware of anything that has happened in the timestop. I've always RP'ed it the same way. If a Mage Timestops, then runs away out of sight, from my characters PoV, the mage disappeared. I always thought that's the way it's supposed to be too.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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Jyro X
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 18:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina (EST/GMT -5)
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-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote: Lore wise is a tricky question as the NWN version of the spell is not quite teh same as the standard D&D spell.
This is how I always thought of it.
From the non casters PoV. Imagine standing next to a mage and goblin. The mage casts timestop. Then he chucks a fireball at the goblin.
I see a Goblin. Then I blink. Then I see a smoldering pile of ashes.
I am not aware of anything that has happened in the timestop. I can only see the effects of whatever the mage has done while he was "mega-hasted" for those 9 seconds.
In fact I imagine its possible that someone could cast timestop and no-one would realise, unless the spellcaster affects the world in some way that someone would notice. We call that the "Fastest Draw in the West" effect. Someone says they did something so fast you just didn't see it (thank you K-Pax). As far as what happens IC from a lore standpoint Dwagin, I realize you're looking for an answer from the administrative team, so I'll leave my observations and speculations out of it. _________________  
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corypx
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 18:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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oh but you must think if mega-haste on the caster logic works, why not mega-slow on everyone else?
would explain why AoE effects and wounding still effect time at the same rate on you.(assuming they do, I thought they did)
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
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Glyph
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 19:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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i think i've nailed it.
time stop = what happens to fry on that one episode of futurama where he drinks 100 cups of coffee. nuff said.
I would still personally, in pnp, change the vagueness and stop time for everyone but the caster ala prince of persia style.
ed: logic would say lorewise right now, time stop slows time to a fraction of its usual speed, which brings up interesting questions about erratic time planes, and simultanious casting of the spell by two mages. if it was just 'mega haste' you could still cast still spells, though the effects wouldn't happen until the stop ended, the same as any caster spells cast, my personal favourite being hellball time stop haste, followed by running. very quickly.
ed2: I would actually email wizards about this. I don't think a clear answer is going to be easy to come by.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 19:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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If it was mega-haste; All casters would self-Combust out of the heat generated by the movement,
Edit - If the Team rules it as Mega-haste; Im going to demand that a Burning VFX is added on the caster after casting timestop.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
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Glyph
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 19:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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but, its dnd not farscape >_>
however if we're going there, I would think its something more along the lines of warp drive...wrap the 'dimensions' around the caster and cheat time, be it haste or slowing everyone else.
then again being magic I am sure there is a more dnd relevant answer than 'its like star trek'
ed: lightspeed movement does make sense though, i'm just lost as to how and why thats the most logical answer.
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Silent2001
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 20:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire
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Quote: This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. ^3rd edition. Something like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiTF4_sD ... re=related_________________  <3 MarynWe are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 20:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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This is a situation the DMs have yet to agree on and is why Timesop is not in the bundle of balance fixes that are coming down the pipeline, among other reasons.
There is a DC request that hinges on Timestop affecting the world and not the caster, and previous DM events have supported that lore basis as well.
"Technically" in base 3.5, it's not so much "time Stop", as "Supreme Haste". n.b. I ignore Svensk's topic on physics because it's unnecessary and won't be done or added.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Green Devil Face
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 20:35 PM |
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Joined: 09 Sep 2010
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Have to agree with Cloak-and-Dagger and this is my spin:
A bubble-shaped irregularity in the natural flow of time, affecting all things within and without except the caster.
Those within suffer the effect of the distorted time element (and whatever actions the caster chooses to effect therein).
Those without do not suffer the effect of the distortion, but also do not experience the distortion in any manner other than the preceding and following events once the irregularity collapses (times out).
** It would, could, and should make more sense if the caster him/herself -was- the irregularity, that it was centered upon him or her, as he or she is actually the one 'in charge' of the distortion itself. This places the caster definitively in the camp of Those Within the spell effect as well.
_________________
Not the indie publisher. Sorry.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 20:40 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Yes, that is the "Affects the world" camp.
Funny that you call it a "localized Time Distortion". That harkens back to an recent DM plot and gives even more credence for just *why* our Timestop should be World Affecting ad not Caster Speed.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Jyro X
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 20:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina (EST/GMT -5)
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By all appearances and mechanics of the spell in-game, it would appear to be more of a mass-paralyze than anything.
_________________
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 20:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Ok. If we're going with the 'Affects the world' Concept, Then i want to suggest that time-stop affects the flow of energy.It's a transmutation spell; hence it "Changes the physical properties of some creatures, things, or conditions."What about the condition of Light? Light is Time; Because time would not be measured if light did not exist. And theories claim, That if you move faster than time, you will go backwards in time, Since you're looking at older light. Example.You fly in a spaceship.
You fly away from a Supernova.
You fly faster than the light.
After a while, The star will return to a Huge Red star; Instead of a supernova.
Why? - Because you have managed to get to the light that showed the 'Before' Picture of the Star. What if timestop just altered the Conditions of light?
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Last edited by Mobile_Svensk on Sat, Oct 09 2010, 20:57 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 20:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Both philosophically and in modern physics, I don't think it's appropriate to say that time moves or stops. Time is a standard by which you measure something, and there's any movement then clearly it's the movement of objects in time. So it's nothing as complicated as stopping time in the whole world. Rather, it's stepping outside of time, refusing to move forward in moments. Time (as experienced) is also relative, and saying you move faster or that everyone else moves slower is actually the same thing.
Of course this is not viable even logically let alone realistically, but it can be understood.
And yes, effects happen in the caster's time. It's difficult and sluggish in a way, though. I think Gromph had a hard time lifting a magic axe, cutting off the alhoon's head and tossing it somewhere when he cast Timestop. When the spell ended, the illithid lich was headless.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Tertsökkeldsdönner
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 21:05 PM |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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Jyro X wrote: By all appearances and mechanics of the spell in-game, it would appear to be more of a mass-paralyze than anything. Are you implying that Freedom should negate 'freeze' effect?
_________________
We believe only what we want to believe.
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Jyro X
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 21:27 PM |
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Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina (EST/GMT -5)
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Tertsökkeldsdönner wrote: Jyro X wrote: By all appearances and mechanics of the spell in-game, it would appear to be more of a mass-paralyze than anything. Are you implying that Freedom should negate 'freeze' effect? Not that it should, but people have reported that it has negated it before. _________________
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 21:30 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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Very_Svensk wrote: Ok. If we're going with the 'Affects the world' Concept, Then i want to suggest that time-stop affects the flow of energy.It's a transmutation spell; hence it "Changes the physical properties of some creatures, things, or conditions."What about the condition of Light? Light is Time; Because time would not be measured if light did not exist. And theories claim, That if you move faster than time, you will go backwards in time, Since you're looking at older light. Example.You fly in a spaceship.
You fly away from a Supernova.
You fly faster than the light.
After a while, The star will return to a Huge Red star; Instead of a supernova.
Why? - Because you have managed to get to the light that showed the 'Before' Picture of the Star. What if timestop just altered the Conditions of light? The problem with this is: How is Light = Time? The example of 'catching up to' the 'old' image of a star before it goes supernova is that you are essentially saying that going back in time is like looking at a picture taken of said star before it had gone supernova. The reason I say this is because if you go faster than the speed of light, you will, of course, travel to a point in which the light from the star has not changed into a supernova state yet. In case anyone s not aware, this is because of a few things: Naivatkal wrote: If a star is a billion light years away from us, then the moment it 'stops shining' we still see it in the sky. Because light moves at light speed, it will take a billion years (give or take) for the light from that star to stop reaching us. You can think of it in terms of the light hasn't finished it's journey to us and therefore the 'end' of it has not reached us (like the end of a train). At least, this is how I understand it. I am not a student of physics or astronomy or anything of the like, but I like to think I am reasonably informed on the topics as they are of interest to me (and I love learning more about them). If I am wrong, someone feel free to correct me. So, given the above, you are not actually traveling back in time. What you are doing in said spaceship is arriving at your destination (ie where the star still appears to be pre-supernova) before you otherwise would have if going equal to or less than the speed of light. In a sense that is time travel, but only because you are lessening the trip from, say, eighty years to ten years. But that's not actual time travel. Another thing I wanted to point out is that Time would still be measured if light did not exist. People would need a way of telling how long something has taken, when something will occur, etc. That, I think, is theoretical physics (right school of thought?) and not exactly provable (as far as I know, o'course). However, the way that I envisioned it above seems to make the most real-world sense. That, of course, means nothing in science sometimes, though. In my opinion, the best way to deal with Timestop is this: Timestop does not actually affect all Time. Timestop affects the world in a certain area. Timestop creates a 'bubble' in said area where Time slows to virtually a halt. Timestop allows caster to move in and out of said bubble with relative impunity. Timestop causes Time in the bubble to catch up with Time in the rest of the world almost instantaneously when the spell ends. This way, a caster can: Cast Timestop but remain always outside the effects of it Cast other spells and move freely Also, in regards to those affected: Though 'we' see what is going on (maybe? Dunno how NWN/Amia handles the graphics portion of it) our characters see nothing. When the spell ends, movement is restored and may or may not suddenly see a few dead creatures laying around that were previously alive and moving. Might also see the caster suddenly vanish. Also have likely no idea that Time slowed down for them, as for the character it is mostly instantaneous from start to finish. Time is so much fun to think about and mess with ^.^ Oh, and in regards to Freedom of Movement, I would say that it does not protect from Timestop. NWN wiki states that "The target creature becomes immune to paralysis, slow, and entanglement spells and effects." Timestop is not any of those three. Also, I do not see a reason why a level four spell could counter a supposedly 'unresistable' spell lol fake edit: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Time_StopInteresting info there. My above post is based on my NWN knowledge, by the way.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 21:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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I know it is not DnD, but I like this description:Pathfinder on Timestop wrote: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/time-stopSchool transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 9 Casting Time 1 standard action Components V Range personal Target you Duration 1d4+1 rounds (apparent time); see text This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat. You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature's possession. You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop. EDIT: Posting from work. Sorry! Only now I saw it was addressed as a mega-haste, as well as the possbility of being a world-affecting thingy.
_________________
BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
Last edited by BlackDahlya on Sat, Oct 09 2010, 21:41 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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hendrack
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 21:38 PM |
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Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Why do modern physics always creep into discussions lately, isn't "its magic" the most easy explanation? I'd simply rename the spell to mass paralyzation. The spell paralyzes every creature around the casters radius, finito.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 21:42 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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IronAngel wrote: Both philosophically and in modern physics, I don't think it's appropriate to say that time moves or stops. Time is a standard by which you measure something, and there's any movement then clearly it's the movement of objects in time. So it's nothing as complicated as stopping time in the whole world. Rather, it's stepping outside of time, refusing to move forward in moments. Time (as experienced) is also relative, and saying you move faster or that everyone else moves slower is actually the same thing.
Of course this is not viable even logically let alone realistically, but it can be understood.
And yes, effects happen in the caster's time. It's difficult and sluggish in a way, though. I think Gromph had a hard time lifting a magic axe, cutting off the alhoon's head and tossing it somewhere when he cast Timestop. When the spell ended, the illithid lich was headless. But magically, hermetically, and most importantly, "cool-ly" and dramatically, time is the 4th dimension and a very palpable flowing river by which the here and now, the has and been, and the soon and may-since-come are. So who cares about philosophy and physics in DnD. You people ar emaking this topic far lamer and far more compliated than it needs to be. Seriously. Quote: Why do modern physics always creep into discussions lately, isn't "its magic" the most easy explanation? I'd simply rename the spell to mass paralyzation. The spell paralyzes every creature around the casters radius, finito. Because there are DM events that have directly contradicted this that cannot be retconned.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 22:44 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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hendrack wrote: Why do modern physics always creep into discussions lately, isn't "its magic" the most easy explanation? I'd simply rename the spell to mass paralyzation. The spell paralyzes every creature around the casters radius, finito. The other problem with that is that Freedom of Movement should technically counter Timestop, mechanics-wise. It's not a paralyze spell which is why I figure how I said it (though others said it before me) works best. It just slows time in a certain sized bubble. To be honest, though, it should really just end with 'It's magic, deal with it.' There shouldn't be a real-world explanation, just say 'This is what it does and the way it works in Amia is because it's magic not real-world physics'. I think that best explains it. I don't want to muddle a NWN spell with 'reality'. What I was talking about, btw, was just addressing what Svensk said, and touching on a more real life aspect of things.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 23:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Sure. Explaining it 'It's magic' Is nice
But how fun is that?
Btw, I think your explanation Naivatkal was the better one.
_________________
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 23:26 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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It is very fun. It allows me to use big words and fancy nonsense and cinematics and dramatics to explain something that you would otherwise force me into a physics degree, or, god forbid, philosophy, to describe.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 23:28 PM |
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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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TormakSaber wrote: It is very fun. It allows me to use big words and fancy nonsense and cinematics and dramatics to explain something that you would otherwise force me into a physics degree, or, god forbid, philosophy, to describe. Strange; I find that, Twisting the angle of Modern physics is extremely interesting and mesmerizing. Could it be that we have different taste!@ Topic.If the Pnp Spells declare, That you are speeded up to the point that everything else looks like it's in statics, Mustn't that somehow be close to the speed of light?
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Glyph
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 23:43 PM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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going by the 'its a world effect' thing, I think maybe it would make more sense to call it a planar thing, I can even think of lore to back that one up, erratic time zones. manual of the planes. time stop is like creating one of these zones, much like how using wisdom on the plane of chaos can prevent changes, only backwards. localized on the caster, something akin to how leylines localize around the caster and 'move' them to their destination, by warping the space around them, sort of...
I can't describe it any better than that without using words that come from physics either. warped space (-time). its not that confusing but its hard to imagine.
maybe the sands of time are actually mythal dust with the power to make one go fast.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 23:47 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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There's already a perfect IC explanation for why Timestop operates the way it does, due to the lasting effects of a primordial creature causing untold ripple sin the Prime that will affect it for generations, potentially.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 0:06 AM |
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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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TormakSaber wrote: There's already a perfect IC explanation for why Timestop operates the way it does, due to the lasting effects of a primordial creature causing untold ripple sin the Prime that will affect it for generations, potentially. ' Link that DM event, I totally want to read!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 0:09 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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"Dark Days for Divination". DM Story. You may also need to do in game research.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 1:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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At the people trying to use physics: Stop. This is special relativity, where your logic doesn't apply. You need to use 4-vectors to show anything, as well as deciding upon your reference frames. FTR Faster than light travel is time travel, but there's nothing to insinuate that the caster is travelling faster than light, nor even close to it since there is no redshift or blueshift. Added to this, in FR time travel is possible, so we must assume that either causality or relativity break down at some point. And Svensk, if you want to argue physics, just see what you can do when the rules describe telekinesis in terms of force, not mass. The reason you don't immolate? Magic. That's the same reason you don't fry yourself when the fireball arcs from your hand, the same reason the lightning doesn't arc back at nice little grounded you. If you were allowed to apply physics normally, you could break the game in favour of casters even more, and even beyond that - you have empirical evidence that the caster doesn't burst into flames with timestop, and that he can move through air that would seem solid. Naivatkal wrote: The other problem with that is that Freedom of Movement should technically counter Timestop, mechanics-wise. It's not a paralyze spell which is why I figure how I said it (though others said it before me) works best. It just slows time in a certain sized bubble. No it shouldn't. The DMs are trying to decide whether it's as the sourcebooks say (a superhaste, which Freedom would not counter), or a local stopping in time (FoM is not Freedom from Time, otherwise you'd be able to travel at whatever speed you like, and argue that you're using a different inertial reference frame). Edit: Dammit, I have no high level mage characters and I want to experiment. Get two clocks, one far away, one close to you, and cast Timestop. See if there's a difference between them. If so, it's a local effect on time. If not, it's either a 'global' effect on time, or the caster himself is hasted.
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
Last edited by Yurell on Sun, Oct 10 2010, 1:44 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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Yossarin
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 1:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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I could explain my apparently currently standing "DM stance on the nature of time", but I'm not going to. This is one of those valid IC questions that not even all magicians know because certainly not all of them even cast Time Stop. Those who do comprehend the rote (if anyone knows what I mean), but perhaps not the theory behind its application on reality.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 3:58 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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I have to agree, freedom shouldn't counter TS. I mean, you could argue semantically that you're being bound by time(or more appropriately, by the lack of its passage). But if you do, then technically, and a BIG technically, Freedom would allow you to exist separately from time, moving back and forth in time, existing everywhere in its span, simultaneously there and nowhere, motor-boating betwixt the great Triple-D cup bosoms of the Lord Ao and braiding Chuck Norris's beard into festive balloon animals while Christopher Walken reads Optimus Prime a bedtime story...
What the hell was I talking about? Oh yeah, Freedom just applies to immediate physical and quasi-physical incumbents, IMO. Else, it would make you more powerful than an Overgod.
Relativity is the simplest answer.
Time Stop makes all of the affected sit on a park bench beside a beautiful woman and the caster must maintain his hand on a lit stove for the duration.
Seriously though, either through physical relativity or temporal relativity, it works. Whether it affects one area or Za Warudo in history can simply be explained through differences in the Weave at places as well as caster variables. It's a lore-supported method of deus-ex-machina, really.
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billytheid
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 4:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis
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Maybe Timestop seperates the world around the mage into it's elementary particles for a brief period of time? That way their mass becomes so small that they are 'left behind' be theorized time space for a little while. When the spell ends the world around the caster stops being a seperated mass of elementary particals and is reconstituted into it's pre-spell form. Their mass is back in the zone that gravity will affect and hence they return to 'real' time.
There's a physics answer that kind of works and only makes all the same MASSIVE assumptions that modern day 'physicists'(really, we're not just philosophers in disguise) make.
_________________
Jess Incognito: F.L.A.G. Inc.
Gharl Killith: Hobgoblin Headhunter
Olaf Grudgebringer: Bad tempered Dwarvern Weaponsmith
"But thats mainly because I'm an Aussie and what you guys call flaming and rudeness I call a normal conversation."
Last edited by billytheid on Sun, Oct 10 2010, 5:17 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 5:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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billytheid wrote: Maybe Timestop seperates the world around the mage into it's elementary particles for a brief period of time? That way their mass to energy becomes so small that they are 'left behind' be theorized time space for a little while. When the spell ends the world around the caster stops being a seperated mass of elementary particals and is reconstituted into it's pre-spell form. Their mass to energy is back in the zone that gravity will affect and hence they return to 'real' time.
There's a physics answer that kind of works and only makes all the same MASSIVE assumptions that modern day 'physicists'(really, we're not just philosophers in disguise) make. Erm, what? I don't think physics works like that. At all.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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billytheid
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 5:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis
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But it's magic isn't it? (It was a ment to be a bit of a piss take)
_________________
Jess Incognito: F.L.A.G. Inc.
Gharl Killith: Hobgoblin Headhunter
Olaf Grudgebringer: Bad tempered Dwarvern Weaponsmith
"But thats mainly because I'm an Aussie and what you guys call flaming and rudeness I call a normal conversation."
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 5:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Oh, thought you were being serious.
Carry on.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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billytheid
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 5:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis
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Modern physics just gets on my nerves... prove something you chin wagging time wasters(stoppers?). No more assumptions!
end of hi-jack.... sorry.
_________________
Jess Incognito: F.L.A.G. Inc.
Gharl Killith: Hobgoblin Headhunter
Olaf Grudgebringer: Bad tempered Dwarvern Weaponsmith
"But thats mainly because I'm an Aussie and what you guys call flaming and rudeness I call a normal conversation."
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 5:21 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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billytheid wrote: But it's magic isn't it? (It was a ment to be a bit of a piss take) A piss take? For goodness sake, I hope that's not anything like a spit-take...
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hendrack
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 9:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Long time ago, in a book or on FRwiki I read something about "Weaves of Fate" (no, not the stone tablets Helm watches over) or some sort of harp where a magical chick (a deity?) weaves and makes knots and so on, forming the destiny of all beings on Faerun. I can't find it again nor remember how it was called. I'd say then time stop just makes a giant knot in that harp for the persons around for a brief period of time until the magical chick cursed and unknots it again. 
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 9:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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Sure that's not Istus of the Greyhawk setting?
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hendrack
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 9:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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It had something to do with that thing Shar did that makes Oghma fade away with time, I think. Perhaps Iron knows what I mean.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 9:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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This question of Timestop is fascinating to me ... it seems to e to be what wizards are about. Old men, sitting in their candlelit studies, researching page after page about magic until they sure enough to experiment with the spells themselves, testing to see how it really works, and then publishing a book to earn high repute amongst the peers.
And to bitterly slander their rivals, of course.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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hendrack
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 10:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Ah, found that part about the "End of creation", isn't related to Shar though, or that harp thingy. Quote: Oghma's battles against the now-deceased Leira, Guardian of Liars, are legendary. For centuries, Leira attempted to send dangerous, revolutionary ideas to her followers but was stymied by Oghma at every turn. Oghma ensured that these concepts remained limited to the members of Leira's small cult, preventing her perverted ideology from making a meaningful impact upon the inhabitants of Faerun. The Lady of the Mists swore revenge and secretly cast a great spell upon Faerun to subtly manipulate the concept of truth. The spell wove tidbits of a staggering multiversal axiom into the written work of the past, present and future. Sometimes words, juxtapositions of letters or even whole sentences, these snippets convey little by themselves. When combined into a single text, however, they reveal what seems absolute truth but is in fact a great and terrible lie, a work of unsurpassed subterfuge that, when, read, will result in a day in which nothing can be created. On that day, the artist will stare blankly at his canvas, the philosopher will stand mute before her students, and the Binder of What is Known, cut off from the creative energy that gives him form and purpose, will fade forever from existence.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 10:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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TormakSaber wrote: But magically, hermetically, and most importantly, "cool-ly" and dramatically, time is the 4th dimension and a very palpable flowing river by which the here and now, the has and been, and the soon and may-since-come are.
Ha, but you contradict yourself. Let's say time is the 4th dimension, which is an understandable concept even if it wasn't true. But dimensions don't move, do they? Up doesn't flow, nor does left move. You go left, right, up down, closer or farther. Just like you go forward or back in time. Time itself doesn't go anywhere. But I agree. It doesn't matter so much, and dramatic explanations are often the best. But if you have a hard time grasping how the spell is possible and whether it affects the caster, the world or something else, I think it's clear enough to think of it as something that lets you stop your movement in the dimension of time but move normally in the other three dimensions. It doesn't have to adhere to modern physics. It's quite enough that it's borderline understandable. Yurell wrote: This question of Timestop is fascinating to me ... it seems to e to be what wizards are about. Old men, sitting in their candlelit studies, researching page after page about magic until they sure enough to experiment with the spells themselves, testing to see how it really works, and then publishing a book to earn high repute amongst the peers.
And to bitterly slander their rivals, of course. But yeah, it should be a subject of IC theories. I think we can safely say that spell effects happen during Timestop and not all at once when it ends, because that's what happens in the one novel that deals with it, as well as visibly in game (I think?). _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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TeroSNS
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 11:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timestop.htm"This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds."
_________________ My favourite sniper loadout: Huntsman, jarate, bushwacka. Team Fortress 2 is FREE TO PLAY! 
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Quarter_From_Nothing
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 11:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Location: Finland (GMT +2)
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This is one of my theory about time stop.
Time stop takes the caster and those around him/her away from the natural 'flow' of time, meaning they are taken to a time 'pocket' that is made by the casters spell, hence the caster can control the time in said 'pocket' (or semi-dimension if you want to call it). This allows the caster to move freely in 'his own magical dimension' but others are being still in the dimension, as the dimension is only a one single place in time, which does not alter unless the maker (caster) of said dimension alters it. After the spell ends, everything applies to those in the pocket and the caster to the real world, and they 'hop back in' to the exact same place in time as they earlier were.
Like bag of holding causes item's become weightless, this spell causes those in it's influence to go to a place where time stands still, except for the caster who controls the said dimension. (There are mages that can make semi-planes and dimensions and are able to control them / decide what's in there, so it's logical they can alter the time of said semi-planes as well.)
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 11:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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We've already established that, Tero, but the lore on Amia can be different, and the DMs have yet to reach consensus about it.
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TeroSNS
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Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 11:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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Funny, still some people seem to offer pocket dimensions and other theories.
_________________ My favourite sniper loadout: Huntsman, jarate, bushwacka. Team Fortress 2 is FREE TO PLAY!
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