I have a few questions about the pickpocket skill.

Did this system ever get implimented?


I understand that the amount of profit to be made by high level pickpockets using this is REDUNKULUS, and the loot appearing from thin air makes little sense, but other than that, it seems like an excellent system.

Just set gold cap down to levels*50, or even levels*25, and modify the script so that pickpocketing a certain player can only be done once per reset, as well as pickpocket has a 3-10 minute cooldown (to prevent you just wandering into a crowd and wandering out with a gigantic profit). Adding the player level to the Spot DC would also be neat, to help all those low wis, no spot characters out there. Perhaps making spot ranks 1.5 times? I dunno, just trying to balance it in my head. According to the above, a worst-case-scenario character has a 1 in 4 chance to catch a pickpocket with only a single rank in the skill, which is far too low. We'd want catch-chance to be in the 80%-75% range for this situation, and perhaps reversed at the opposite end of the scale (I might fiddle around with some binomial distributions or something if I find the time). As well, increase the time that a failed attempt knocks you down for significantly, perhaps to a minute. Some people are slow typers, ya know.

Why am I bringing this up, when this topic tends to generate a lot of arguements and disagreement? Because I think that a system like this could work, and would add to RP. The potential profit, while not gigantic, is enough to encourage people to attempt it; there will inevitably be many failed attempts, especially if levels are added to DC (Can't tell a character's level from the login now).

We want something that is difficult. We want something that gives -just- enough profit to make it viable. We want something that you have to work hard at to be good, both skill-wise and tactically. We want to go and scout out our targets, waiting for the right moment, when they wander away from the group, to sneak up behind them. We want the main reason for pickpocketing to be the thrill of fear you get from possible capture, and the RP generated if you fail.

The suggestions above are literally pulled out of 5 minutes work with a calculator. Inevitably there will be balance issues. And inevitably there will be people who are horrified at losing even 750 gold to a level 30. But I believe it can work. And that being pickpockets/pickpocketed will become a great feature on the server, with only minimal generation of web-rage on both sides.

Quick table of Gold amounts, depending on multiplier


Much critisim is welcome. As well, if anyone feels like suggesting appropriate DC ranges, that would be great. I pretty much ignored those apart from stating that it needs to be more difficult. Same with loot; I don't like the idea of stuff popping randomly into being, but taking items from characters is a big no-no in my book. Gold is expendible; the first gem you ever found on Amia is not.

In case you're wondering where corpse-robbing comes into this, I think we sort that out AFTER the basics are done. It's just too messy an issue to deal with.

Inb4 Rants, anger, occasional logical arguments, frequent illogical ones, and Tormak being scary.

tl;dr Pickpocket system, trying to balance so it is useful, an RP booster, and does not induce OOC rage.

Relevent and referanced threads:
viewtopic.php?p=615495#p615495
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44561&hilit=Pickpocket
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49623&hilit=Pickpocket

Edit: Grammar.

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Suggestion Rule of Thumb: Don't think about how neat it would be to use, think about how neat it would be for people to use against you.

Hrn.

I dunno.

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I'm not sure about the amounts you suggest. If you want it to go easier on lowbies, you'd probably want an exponential or a polynomial, because at the other end of the scale your amounts are utterly useless.
750gp at 30 is less than a twentieth of a piece of loot, and assuming a million gold is 0.08% of the total. Disco's 1% cap protects lowbies - if you have under a thousand gold, or even thereabouts, under Disco's system you lose less than you do in your suggested system (unless I misread and you intend to keep the 1%, in which case I apologise). 1% of your total gold is nothing, and in epic 250 * lvl is less than even this - at 30, that's a cap of 7.5E3 gold. This is 75% of the 1% cap at 1 million. I can't build at all, but in a party a million gold is easy enough to get by 30.

That said, your idea of only being able to be picked once per reset is a good one, perhaps with an additional caveat that you can't pick the same person twice in a row.

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*Shrug* Like I said, I'm just trying out a few numbers on the calculator here. I've never been able to have large amounts of wealth, I tend to spend it all pretty fast, so I can't really make accurate estimates for high-end pickpocketing. I think I once got to 600k, and was wandering around thinking "Man, I'm rich!". Thus, the thread, and assistance in estimates.

Exponential does seem the way to go, I'll grab a graphics calc and give a few a shot.

As for the not-picking-multiple-times, thats a good idea! Would help prevent multiple pickpocket induced rage.

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"Hi, I'm Garnith, and I'm an Invisophile."
Garnith, Ranth, Rick, Burick, Elail, Deryl, Kane, Rini.
Suggestion Rule of Thumb: Don't think about how neat it would be to use, think about how neat it would be for people to use against you.

No since the pickpocket hook aint active on A or B. Its in our testing environment though!

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Yeah, this is all kinda assuming the hook goes in at some point soon.

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"Hi, I'm Garnith, and I'm an Invisophile."
Garnith, Ranth, Rick, Burick, Elail, Deryl, Kane, Rini.
Suggestion Rule of Thumb: Don't think about how neat it would be to use, think about how neat it would be for people to use against you.

In comparison to the old system, I like this new one without the edits the OP made to it. It seems like it'll make players feel less stupid for taking those useless points in PP, and it gives the ability to PP NPC's.

<snip>

Wait a sec, do you get your bonuses to PP and to Spot? IE, equipment with +pick pocket actually does something now?

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Jack Tesilent - Jack's Bio

*Shrug* I just thought that some of the possible profits a level 30 could make in a large crowd of wealthy people were stupid-huge. The numbers should be whatever the community/team feel appropriate.

And I'm assuming that since the PP roll adds PP ranks, that it will use gear-added ranks and not just base.

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"Hi, I'm Garnith, and I'm an Invisophile."
Garnith, Ranth, Rick, Burick, Elail, Deryl, Kane, Rini.
Suggestion Rule of Thumb: Don't think about how neat it would be to use, think about how neat it would be for people to use against you.

Hrm, I'm not quite understanding the PP system. . although it does sound good from what I do understand.
I have a question.

If I had a 90 PP Skill... would that factor any way into a PP attempt?
I have read different things in Different places... some say Yes (vaguely) most say No, and some say Maybe.

-Rayne

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You better add the ability to dump alcamists fire in peoples pants!

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gosh it really would be nice to see this in-game, without it pick-pocket is totally lame, unless its all donme via pc complying with pick pocket rolls.

be nice to actually make some gold >.<

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I think pick pocket should be a thing you do in tells. You show them your roll, they let you have something...

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- "The fiend is less hideous in his own shape....then when he rages in the breast of man"

Most would likely be stingy and give you something minimal / not at all important much alike the current system bu with more hassle.

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From what I have read, despite your pick pocketing skill, someone will always have a good chance at spotting you, regardless of how high the skill is, even people without spot.
Now that seems.... well, not right at all. If someone has a high skill with pick pocketing, then someone with no spot skill, would not notice at all with the attempt, and why should they?
Sure, if someone has an Average spot.. say... 40.. Vs the average Thief, that would be pretty good.
If someone had a HIgh Spot, say... 100, that would catch almost any Thief and their attempt.

Perhaps, having it so that the PP skill, is unmodified (but the tool is still needed to be used). And make it that OTHER people can spot your attempt too, at a increased DC however as they are not the targets... It would make sence. .the person being Pick Pocketed dosnt see the attempt, but someone standing a little off to the side may see it.
So a message shows up telling the person if their Spot beat the DC of the Pick Pocket skill.
More people around, greater chance for the Pick Pocket to be caught. . which would be more realistic, also, it could enable for people to play thieves with groups of them. . say. . two or three thieves walk into a group, converse with them, blend in, and start stealing from the people, people are getting messages saying that they are being pick pocketed and the people nearby are aswell, but are failing the roll to see if they actually see it happening. Then out of nowhere, one person see's someone actually trying, they succeeded the attempt on their target, but were seen. That person calls it out, the thief or thieves bolt, or maybe one stays behind to destract, or to block, or to keep up the work.
Could make for a great coailition of thieves to be started.

Anyways, just an Idea on an observation which I may or may not have read wrong... Also, I particularly like the idea.



Also, no one answered this question for me.

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The more I read, the more I'm considering the view I believe was propounded by Tormak - just remove the skill.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

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yeah... "look i rolled a natural 20, see".

Oh man... "if my PC had pockets you'd have cleaned him out... but he doesn't"

damnit... "'pickpocket' is just the skill name, it still applies to bags and..."

pff... "sorry no pockets, bye"

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In cuba? 5$.

If you remove the skill I wish rebuilds for all my PCs that have taken it. It is a useful skill for more than just looting. Have you ever considered adding 50 to it and allowing people to plant items upon others? Most useful application ever when in a bind.

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That's why they introduced the freebies.

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If I recall it's one per player, per year.

If someone really likes rogues and has 8 epic level characters with a lot of pick pocket... Well, you know.

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Jack Tesilent - Jack's Bio

Everyone else who had to live with 'nerf x' has the same problem. And it's not really much of a nerf, since the utility of this skill is somewhat underwhelming except in DM events - and if that's their only use, then it makes no difference whether it's mechanically enforced or not.

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Read the posts carefully. Use a dictionary if necessary.

Removal of the skill would entirely remove the mechanic/skill points spent. Ergo no usefulness in DM plots or any other areas Player Driven or otherwise. Enforcing such a stance would require complimentary LETOs or rebuilds for any character with it. ((IE: How can a character have chosen it if it didn't exist?)) The DM team is suddenly bogged down yet again with endless rebuilds that prevent them from achieving their new directive of remaining in game and running plots.

Maybe they can turn it into truespeak ranks o avoid the hassle and have bards/rogues telling the universe how it should behave for the giggles of it.

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

Nah. You can use the HAK to add and remove custom skills.

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"