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IronAngel
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 Posted: Fri, Nov 26 2010, 15:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Who knows? If you didn't know, what are the chances your paladin does? I bet players have had more contect with constructs than PCs.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Fri, Nov 26 2010, 15:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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QPR
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Posted: Fri, Nov 26 2010, 17:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Quick question: What are the big differenses between Rock Gnomes and Forest Gnomes?
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Grymia
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Posted: Sat, Nov 27 2010, 18:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Would it be publically known if any of the Gnomes at the Gnomish Testing Range in Forrstakkr are Priests of Gond? In prior RP Tuomas was made to understand that the man who tends that Workshop is a Monk and not of Gond's Clergy.
Alternatively:
It is custom (as I understand) for a copy of the blueprints of any new invention (Or a copy of the invention itself) to be given over to the nearest Temple (or Workshop?) of Gond, as well a second copy of the invention or Blueprints destroyed in flame to represent the destructive process of invention.
Can I trouble assistance in confirming if I am correct in at least the understanding of the custom as if so, Tuomas has a religious rite to be attending as soon as he can find a suitable Clergy.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Nov 27 2010, 19:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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There's a workshop somewhere in the module, if not among the gnomes. (Gnomes aren't the primary worshipers of Gond anyway.)
And yes, that's pretty much how it's done. As Faiths & Avatars says: "If a new tool or machine is seen or made by any Gondar, that Gondar is charged to make two copies of it if possible. One is hidden away against the prying eyes of thieves or vandals for later display to fellow Gondar, and the other is smashed—or preferably, burned—while a prayer of offering to Gond, the Sacred Unmaking, is chanted. The ceremony reinforces Gond's dominion over both constructive and destructive engineering."
Rock gnomes and forest gnomes, I don't know. I'd have to check, but the former live in burrows and the latter in forests, I guess. Forest gnomes are also more shy, I think. And they tend to worship Baervan Wildwanderer.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Gunz
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 1:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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QPR wrote: Quick question: What are the big differenses between Rock Gnomes and Forest Gnomes? The Rock Gnome is to the Gnome what the Lightfoot Halfling is to the Hin. In other words, they're the most common subrace of their kind and the source of most all of the things said about the races. Forest Gnomes are the least common subrace of their kind. Rock Gnomes: Quote: Big of nose, quick with a laugh, cheerful, visionary, and industrious in their approach to life, the Rock Gnomes form the picture of the gnomish race as it is viewed by most of the larger folk who know them. Quote: Rock Gnomes are the most common type of gnome among the known worlds, and indeed, when one speaks of a "gnome," chances are he or she means a Rock Gnome. While not a populous race in comparison to humans or other demihumans, they are encountered in a wide variety of environments, showing no particular preference for any one type of climate. They do, however, tend to make their homes in areas with an abundance of natural rock (even if it's invisible under a layer of loam and forest). Forest Gnomes: Quote: This subrace is not so common as are the others, but its members fill an important niche in their environment. Forest Gnomes are shy and reclusive, and often the mere arrival of human settlers within their wooded domain is enough to send them migrating to a new, un spoiled home. Nevertheless, they have been known to aid adventurers from other races and are particularly friendly with elves. Quote: The Forest Gnomes prefer a life in which no one knows who they are or where they live. They dwell in large swaths of woodland, and unlike the other gnomish subraces, prefer to dwell in houses that are at least partially above ground. They are creatures of nature far more than any of their cousins, and to those rare folks who meet them (and pass through the walls of initial shyness) they can prove to be steadfast allies and delightful companions. If you want to really know a lot about Gnomes, I recommend the book "The Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings." It's a 2nd edition book, but it's a great one to have if you love Gnomes and/or Hin. You'll learn almost everything there is to know about the races in this book. Although there are some contradictions to be careful about. In FR 3.0/3.5, Hin are wandering folk who rarely settle, where as Gnomes are more the homebody types. This book preaches the opposite as true. There are a few other things that aren't true to FR 3.0/3.5 in the book as well. Races of the Wild clears up a lot of things for Hin. Races of Faerun further clears things up for Hin. As well, it clears things up a bit for Gnomes.
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Last edited by Gunz on Mon, Nov 29 2010, 3:06 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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QPR
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 12:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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So do you think I'd need to make a special request to play a Forest Gnome, or do the NwN default gnome race cover both?
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 13:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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It's a seperate race, so you technically have to request, much like Arctic or Jungle Dwarves. I can't see anyone ever denying such a request, though.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 13:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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Mechanically the races are virtually identical. The differences are more cultural. From what I remember of the Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings, though, I don't really see Forest Gnome as a PC race. They are -really- shy. The sort of people who would never talk to anyone, never let themselves be seen by anyone....and so on. If you can think of a good reason why one of those might become a PC, well, thats your prerogative. But they strike me as more the kind of folks an actual adventurer might accidentally stumble across in the midst of a forest campaign.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 18:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Seems a bit like Ghostwise, which never struck me as a PC race either due to the weird extrapolation needed to even get them into "daily social settings".
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Uthgardt
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 18:35 PM |
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Joined: 14 Nov 2010
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Simpleish question. I was wondering if Ice hunters can cast divine spells by praying to their spirit gods? I know they can do this in PnP but I just want to know if they can on amia. I saw that one of the other spirit praiseing groups was shot down and wanted to amke sure. The info on Ice hunters is found in The Savage Frontier book. It's a 2.0 but it's the only place that has good info on the northern region of Faerun.
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Víðarr Gunnarson- Priest of Uthgar
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 18:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Witches in Rasheman and Uthgardt shamans do it. I don't see why not? In the end it all probably comes from Auril via spirit proxies but I doubt the primitive ice hunters know that.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Uthgardt
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 19:30 PM |
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Joined: 14 Nov 2010
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No actully The ice hunters and the Uthgardt both gain thier power directly from the spirit totems. Thats why I was asking on here. Thanks for the reasponce
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Víðarr Gunnarson- Priest of Uthgar
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 19:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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I thought that the Ice Hunter spirits were aspects of Ulutiu. edit: Free Wizards download of "The North". http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frx/20050428aYou mentioned Savage Frontier up there. Ice Hunters are also (far more) detailed in this book, if you haven' read it. There is definetly an Ulutiu link between the totems much like there is with Uthgart.
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Yossarin
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 19:53 PM |
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Yes, even after a cursory read-through of the sleeping god once ages ago I got that impression.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 19:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Well, it's not just the gods listed in F&P that can grant spells. There are plenty of (or at least some) divine spirits and lesser entities that can grant powers to their followers. Sometimes there's a big deity involved, but not always. In this case I trust Cloak and Yoss and say it has to do with Ulutiu, because I have no idea.
There's no upper limit of powers you get from them specified. Spirit Shamans, for example, get powers that aren't outright divine spells from spirits, and I suppose spells from gods. You wouldn't get divine spells like Miracle, and I'm a bit uncertain about the highest tier cleric spells anyway, but it's all pretty basic on Amia so I wouldn't see an issue.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Gunz
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 3:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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TormakSaber wrote: Seems a bit like Ghostwise, which never struck me as a PC race either due to the weird extrapolation needed to even get them into "daily social settings". They're worse than Ghostwise even, from my impression in reading about them. Here's what Races of Faerun says about Forest Gnome Characters: Quote: Few Forest Gnomes take up adventuring professions, instead concentrating on craftsmanship or forestry and becoming experts with the appropriate skills. They enjoy songs of all sorts and a few make good (if shy) bards. Forest Gnomes have a reverent nature and do well as clerics or druids, but no Forest Gnome considers himself a warrior, and Gnomes who take classes such as fighter or ranger are almost nonexistent. Due to their small size and stealthy natures, Forest Gnomes make good rogues, serving as scouts and spies for their isolated communities. Forest Gnomes study the arcane arts as their most effective defense against bigger folk who would otherwise overrun them, and many become wizards specialized in the school of Illusion. Forest Gnome adventurers favor being illusionists. Clerics are a close second. They usually pray to Baervan Wildwanderer but Segojan Earthcaller is a popular second choice. Urdlen on the other hand, represents everything Forest Gnomes fear. Ghostwise are shy and reclusive, but people know they exist when they get close to their homelands. Forest Gnomes on the other hand... have been known to live next to a city of Elves and have them not know they even exist, let alone that they're neighbors, for centuries. The only time Forest Gnomes show themselves is when they absolutely have to. Usually that's when someone/something is threatening their forest home. That's a typical Forest Gnome though, not an adventurer.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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alamut
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 14:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
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Question: how to deal with disguises ? Since a few folks decided to hunt down my toon, I was wondering how to deal with it. Do I have to roll bluff every time someone approach him ?
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 14:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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No, Disguise is a seperate skill. How you choose to do it on Amia is an entirely different matter, of course. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/disguise.htm_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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alamut
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 15:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
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What's the common sense on RP using a disguise ? Let's assume he's not attracting attention from the others around.
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 16:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Most people will accept a change of outfit as a disguise, but that's no guarantee ofcourse.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 17:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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TormakSaber wrote: Witches in Rasheman and Uthgardt shamans do it. I don't see why not? In the end it all probably comes from Auril via spirit proxies but I doubt the primitive ice hunters know that. What is a 'Spirit proxie' , can somebody elaborate?
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 18:13 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Very_Svensk wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Witches in Rasheman and Uthgardt shamans do it. I don't see why not? In the end it all probably comes from Auril via spirit proxies but I doubt the primitive ice hunters know that. What is a 'Spirit proxie' , can somebody elaborate? I believe it's akin to an Aspect. A form that a god takes or allows to be worshiped as a derivative. This is just an example: Let's say Torm's form he took in Tantras to defeat Bane(a giant, lion-headed man) had great popularity after the ToT. People, not all of them understanding that it was actually just a form/avatar of Torm might begin to worship this lion-headed thing, calling him the Mighty Roar, or somesuch. Torm might allow his followers to continue to worship this form as it is dear to the people or perhaps somehow more approachable than the regular deity himself. Even the ones that realize that it is Torm may choose to worship it, as it's more familiar or endear edto their region of Tantras. And so the Mighty Roar serves as a "proxie" or aspect of Torm. At least that's how I understand it. Sort of a "local god" that is merely one of the many faces of a larger one.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 21:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Well, it's not some special D&D term that would have a definite meaning. It's just plain old English. As Merriam-Webster says about proxy:
1: the agency, function, or office of a deputy who acts as a substitute for another
2 a : authority or power to act for another
3: a person authorized to act for another
Tormak means the immediate object of worship and source of power is the spirit, but it ultimately traces back to a proper god. I guess spirit worship is often like this, but not necessarily always. But either way, I think it's enough to know you worship/communicate with spirits and you get powers. Anything beyond that is unnecessary OOC knowledge or curious IC theological speculation.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Gers
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 21:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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There's also another kind of proxy that you'd be advised not to confuse with this sort of thing. "Proxy" can also refer to an extremely-high ranking member of a deity's church, one so close to the god or goddess in question that their word is often thought to be as good as the deity's own. Usually, proxies are planars, often an angel, demon, or devil, though mortals sometimes gain the position as well. For example, Ingrid Liansdottir, a mortal drow from Ysgard, is Eilistraee's only known proxy, according to some 2nd. Ed. sources I've seen.
_________________  Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 21:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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my immediate thoughts goes to 'The eartmother', whom have several aspects that the FFolk worship, and apparently - These aspects can provide spells for them.
Are those considered proxies? Even tho these 'aspects' of the earthmother, are animals? Must it be a sentient being or can it be .. a rock?
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 22:25 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Gers wrote: There's also another kind of proxy that you'd be advised not to confuse with this sort of thing. "Proxy" can also refer to an extremely-high ranking member of a deity's church, one so close to the god or goddess in question that their word is often thought to be as good as the deity's own. Usually, proxies are planars, often an angel, demon, or devil, though mortals sometimes gain the position as well. For example, Ingrid Liansdottir, a mortal drow from Ysgard, is Eilistraee's only known proxy, according to some 2nd. Ed. sources I've seen. Yeah, and in those cases they're more like Saints than Aspects. Aspects are better represented through something like the Shield of the Trinity, I guess.  Quote: Are those considered proxies? Even tho these 'aspects' of the earthmother, are animals? Must it be a sentient being or can it be .. a rock? I could be a spirit that inhabits a rock, I'm certain. Perhaps even unbeknowst to the people that worship it. But it would have to be a "being", I'm 99% sure. Else, druids could actually worship the elements and receive powers from them alone. But now if an aspect/spirit proxy of Kossuth were to inhabit a volcano and the people of a village worshiped the volcano(unknowingly worshiping the spirit of the volcano and by proxy Kossuth), I think that works as well.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 23:02 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I think this goes way too far into scholastic speculation. Don't get hung up on a choice of words as if there was some cosmological pattern to be found there. It's not hard to understand that the divine presents itself in many forms, many of which may be traced to the same sources. When you bring in capitalized terms like Proxy or Aspect, the gamer mindset takes over and starts looking for rules and game definitions. I don't think it's helpful to overanalyze the terms beyond what the everyday use in English demands.
If you really think about it, you always worship only a representation of the divine, never the divine itself. What you call it doesn't matter much.
I've never heard the term "proxy" in the context Gers pointed out so I can't comment on that. It agrees with the basic definition of the word, though, and is a pretty understandable concept. That said, I doubt many gods have single notable proxies in their faiths apart from the high priests or other signifigant people specifically detailed in many deity entries.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Mon, Nov 29 2010, 23:05 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 23:02 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Question of my own dealing with illusions.
Illusions in which the target must disbelieve the spell for it to not affect them: if they fail the save, therefore "believing" it to be real, does their body physically react to the spell or does it only result in their mind accepting whatever damage/death?
I.E. I cast Phantasmal Killer at a hobgoblin. Lets say for instance the "horrible vision" manifests itself as Death wielding a giant scythe to the poor goblinoid. When he fails the save and the image touches him, does he merely feel the pain and subsequent death of the scythe plunging through his chest and nothing else, or might an actual wound appear from it on his dead body?
I know it's a weird question. My first reaction is to say "No, it's all the the hobgoblin's head and he may feel/visual any sensation you can imagine, but the reality is he just falls dead from fear."
But then I thought more on the metaphysics of it like something akin to the Matrix. "If it happens in your head, it happens in real life." Could it be possible that mind-affecting magic at work couples with the target's mind and its willingness to believe what is happening and have it manifest in actuality? Maybe the magic pervades the target's mind, allowing for a brief moment his actual will(fear) to become manifest up his own body much the way a psion's does?
My reasoning behind this conundrum is how the Shadow Variants work. Shadow Variants happen in varying degrees of "reality": 20% real, 40% real, 60% real, and 80% real. Say in the instance of Shadow Evocation, they are 20% real.
I can recreate the spell Fireball through Shadow Evocation. If the target succeeds the Will save(they realize it's the actual thing), the Fireball functions at 20% damage. They might get singed a little.
But now if they fail the spell, and fully believe the spell, it functions at 100% damage. They're fried. Or are they? Is it still only 20% "fire" damage from the real part of the spell and the mind "makes up" the rest?. Or is it like I've theorized with other illusion spells: If spell is fully believed, the target's mind would manifest through the spell -actual- fire that burns them.
This is all pertinent to my PC's IC research, but I've kinda hit a brick wall on this one and I need DM insight. This phenomenon must happen in a definite way IC, but I can only speculate at it OoC.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 23:12 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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It might depend on the spell. There's nothing unbelievable about the body reacting to strong impressions on the mind. I am not completely sure about the authenticity of any stigmata cases, but plenty of less dramatic psychosomatic reactions have been documented without doubt. If you factor in magic, and the fact that the reality of the setting seems partially dependdant on belief, it's pretty reasonable to suppose illusion can cause physical wounds. That said, it doesn't have to. I'd say it's a matter of taste. Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to say an illusory blade ripped my chest open for real, but there might definetely be a bleeding cut there. If somebody shot at me with illusory Flame Arrows, I'd probably get nasty burns.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 23:21 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Well the mere possibility was what I was wondering about. Sooo much fun to be had with that, in the case DM's see it that way too, Iron. Also some fun on their end... like an illusionary staircase. You can only walk up it if you believe it as real, aka, fail the will save. High Will people be damned. xD (course, they could always have you roll will -to believe- in the staircase, but where's the nonsensical fun in that?)Best way to guard your castle would be a really crappy illusion of a bridge crossing the moat. Anything high enough to pose a challenge to you would recognize the illusion and couldn't cross. Anything that believes and can walk across the bridge obviously has horrible will and you could kill it with the flick of your wrist. 
Last edited by Dark Immolation on Mon, Nov 29 2010, 23:40 PM, edited 3 times in total.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 23:33 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I doubt it's a question the DMs want to give a clear ruling on, unless some source material states the fact bluntly.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 23:38 PM |
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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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But just to say, there is a difference between the Phantasmal Killer and the Shadow Evocation Flame Arrows that I believe would play into it, Iron. The Flame Arrows are partially real, as in there's actually some real fire behind them. It'd make sense to get some burns, even if you disbelieve the spell. The point of speculation comes when you fully believe the spell: does it look like you got "20%" burns and your mind just hurt you the rest, or did you receive the 3rd degree burns you'd receive from the real McCoy.
That's something that would be fully visible IC as one way or the other. *shrug* Or they could just say it happens either way, and is left up to the caster. Which is cool too I guess.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Nov 30 2010, 5:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Your mind is so fuzzled by magic that you spontaneously combust. Or die. Or whatever. Illusion magic is werid and it's really best not to think too hard about it.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Tue, Nov 30 2010, 15:23 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Know I've asked it before, but this time it's specific to two planes.
Is there the possibility that the Plane of Shadow and Feywild, as "echoes" of the Prime Material, have solar systems of their own?
I'm currently working on getting 3.0 Manual of the Planes, but as I understand it, those two planes are not infinite in size? I also believe that the Plane of Shadow does not have a Sun, but Feywild likely does.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Tue, Nov 30 2010, 15:27 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I'd leave illusions up to you. Personally I think the physical effect is not quite what you believe, but your belief in conjunction with the magic causes some effects. Spontaneous combustion seems believable, for example. Being ripped into a thousand pieces by imaginary blades doesn't. The stairway example is good at marking the boundaries of illusion, IMO: you can't ascend illusory stairs because that would require the kind of external influence that's not there. You can't defy gravity with the power of belief. But causing damage to yourself, either actively but unconsciously (such as bashing your head into the ground) or by means of more subtle psychosomatic reactions, is believable in our context of magic.
As I said, I'd judge case-by-case. If it's cool and the implications aren't obviously incorrect (such as climbing illusory stairs), go for it.
I have no idea about those planes. There's very little FR material on them anyhow (probably nothing on Feywild). I guess it comes down to "you don't need to know", as frustrating as that may be. You can't go there anyway, so who knows.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Nov 30 2010, 21:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I doubt they have their own solar systems since they're specifically defined as "Transitive Planes".
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Troxa
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 3:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Location: Forgotten City
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This might of been asked before, but what kind of relationship do Drow and Bebiliths have?
Do they even count as spiders in their eyes?
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Hrothmus
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 5:07 AM |
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Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Location: Virginia
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The plane of shadows is infinite, it does not have a sun, its sort of like in a constant state of murky darkness. It also has no color. And I would say that it doesn't have its own solar system based on what I have read.
_________________
Characters:
Fel'Brin - I am one with the shadows
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The Great Equalizer
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 5:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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Troxa wrote: This might of been asked before, but what kind of relationship do Drow and Bebiliths have?
Do they even count as spiders in their eyes? Bebilith are giant demon spiders, and (Lolthite) drow worship the Demon spider Queen/Goddess. So they are generally quite highly looked upon, the Monster Manual 4 even gives a template for the "Lolth touched Bebilith" which are often tasked by Lolth to "...hunt down and destroy driders." There are a number of drow players who know a lot more but I hope that this is helpful enough for now.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 6:46 AM |
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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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I never really got why Driders are a supposed curse to Drow. It seems like a goddess who loves spiders would bless her followers with the gift of being half the creature she loves more than anything. Hell, in most of Lloth's pictures, she's depicted as a huge drider-like humanoid. Just google "lloth". Nothing says "you have failed me!" like turning you into the spitting image of your deity  Would be much cooler Driders were actually something aspired to, being selected by and to serve as high-ranking clergy. Homebrew Underdark just waiting to happen.
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The Great Equalizer
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 7:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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It isn't so much a punishment for failure but rather a punishment to those that do not live up to her ideals for the drow race. Lolth takes the weak and unworthy and reshapes them to be useful and more to her liking, albeit at the cost of loosing their minds, social standing, and much of the other things that drow cherish.
I really don't see how this isn't a fantastic idea for a punishment, she weeds out the weak and gets nice useful tools in return. Plus there is the twisted irony and all that which makes it far more interesting then the more cliche alternative.
Addition: What you describe is basically what 4th edition does, AKA BLASPHEMY!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 7:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Nah. Drider s in 4e make way more sense.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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The Great Equalizer
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 7:49 AM |
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Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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Ok, I'll admit that they do...
But making sense is so boring.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 19:31 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Yeah, it's one of the very, very, very few things I'll say 4e made sense with.
Cuz as it is in 3.5, Lloth would manifest to her people...and they'd mistake her for a Drider and throw stones at her. >_> Which does not end well for anyone involved. I can only imagine the hell her followers must have caught in the Time of Troubles when deities walked among their followers.
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TeroSNS
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 20:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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TormakSaber wrote: Nah. Drider s in 4e make way more sense. and they do in 4th exactly what? _________________ My favourite sniper loadout: Huntsman, jarate, bushwacka. Team Fortress 2 is FREE TO PLAY! 
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 20:52 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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TeroSNS wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Nah. Drider s in 4e make way more sense. and they do in 4th exactly what? FRwiki wrote: Once a promising drow reaches 6th level, a high-level priestesses in good standing with Lolth may test the drow's loyalty to the Queen of Spiders. If the promising drow fails the test, he or she will be transformed into a drider, (However this has changed from a punishment to a blessing according to the Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition). Drow are not punished by being made into Driders in 4e. They are rewarded by it. I mean it doesn't change their natural abilities or classes, it gives them natural poison and abilities of a spider and makes them look like their goddess (or even god if they're Selvetarm followers). Should have always been a reward.
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Kudark
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 20:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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The Great Equalizer wrote: It isn't so much a punishment for failure but rather a punishment to those that do not live up to her ideals for the drow race. Lolth takes the weak and unworthy and reshapes them to be useful and more to her liking, albeit at the cost of loosing their minds, social standing, and much of the other things that drow cherish.
I really don't see how this isn't a fantastic idea for a punishment, she weeds out the weak and gets nice useful tools in return. Plus there is the twisted irony and all that which makes it far more interesting then the more cliche alternative.
Addition: What you describe is basically what 4th edition does, AKA BLASPHEMY! I still agree with this. Screw 4E. _________________ 
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 21:02 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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But it doesn't make them loose their mind. They specifically retain their mind and thoughts, etc, etc they had when they were a regular drow. The process however is very painful, both mentally and physically.
And it's not cliche at all. What other god in FR says "You have served me well, here, look like me!"?
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The Great Equalizer
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Posted: Thu, Dec 02 2010, 11:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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The "Drider Template" in the Wizards 3.5 archive in an interesting read in some regards.
Notably the part where it talks about creatures turned into driders stating "The base creature's memories and past convictions remain, but are swirled in a haze of destructive, anarchic urges that force the creature to commit chaotic evil acts"
So yes, they do maintain intelligence and memories, but they are also driven to quite insane levels of resentment and hatred.
Never said it was a FR specific cliche anyhow but rather the whole notion of loyal servants being made more into the image of their masters in various ways is done quite a bit and while making more sense is far less interesting then the twisted reality of pre 4.0 driders.
Additionally Lolth is sadistic and self titled weaver of chaos, why would she want to do what makes sense? Goes against her own tenants being that rigid and simple.
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