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DustSpray101
 
PostPosted: Wed, Dec 15 2010, 19:22 PM 

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Silvarus wrote:
They don't.
So the Rite of Rebirth is not recognized here then? Source: Races of the Dragon

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Wed, Dec 15 2010, 19:47 PM 

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It depends on whether there's a pre-4e Realms reference to it, I guess. Races of the Dragon is a core book, and implementing stuff therein is iffy. Sometimes it's pretty trivial (like new Prestige Classes or feats), and other times it would require rewriting history. My rule of thumb is not to introduce new races, cults or dubious sorts of magic systems that seem incompatible with Realms parametres. I think those books often make a special mention of the Forgotten Realms application in a sidebar if the introduced thing is supposed to exist in the Realms. This is true for lore more than rules, though. (And something like that is actually required by Ed's contract with WotC; lore changes like new races have to be introduced in-world.)

Basically: if there's no specific reference to Forgotten Realms, it's still in the air. In this case, as I understand, the reference comes after the point where we've completely broken off from WotC's vision. So technically, it doesn't fall under our canon. In reality, Dragonborn aren't something the DMs seem to be keen on. Personally, I think the idea of Bahamut transforming servants is sound lore, but I don't think anything dragon-related is a good PC option barring exceptional cases.

What does Rite of Rebirth entail? Is it just the Dragonborn thing?

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DustSpray101
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 16 2010, 8:48 AM 

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Races of the Dragon, Pages 8, 9, and 10 wrote:
THE RITE OF REBIRTH
The Rite of Rebirth transforms a character into a dedicated draconic servant of Bahamut known as a dragonborn.
Becoming a dragonborn isn’t undertaken lightly. It is a long process full of self-reflection and commitment. Those supplicants raised in the ways of their original race must carefully consider what they’re giving up. While a human might be content to give up her natural versatility, it’s rare for someone heavily invested in her racial identity to forfeit that race’s abilities.
When the rite begins, the supplicant lays aside all her equipment and possessions for the duration of the ceremony. Dressed in a loose, linen shift, she spends a full day and night fasting and meditating upon her choice. Her mind fills with all the things she is giving up, reminding her she must forgo much of herself to become a dragonborn.
When dawn comes, the prospective dragonborn crawls inside an egg-shaped structure that she has built (see Cost) in order to sleep for the last time in her original form. This symbolic act represents her acceptance of the transformation. When the next dawn arrives, she is transformed into a dragonborn. After awakening inside the sealed egg, she breaks out of it as a glorious, draconic child of Bahamut.
Prerequisites: In order to be accepted as a suitable candidate, the supplicant must be non-evil and have an
Intelligence score of at least 3. Benefit: A dragonborn loses many of her
original racial traits and gains the racial traits of the dragonborn race (see below).

Time: The Rite of Rebirth requires 24 hours of meditation and fasting followed by 24 hours of sleep. If the ceremony is interrupted, the prospective child of Bahamut must start the rite from the beginning.
Cost: The symbolic egg crafted by the prospective dragonborn costs 100 gp to create, and requires a handful of scales from metallic
dragons.

DRAGONBORN RACIAL TRAITS ((*Not that it matters given the policy governing additional/special subraces*))
A dragonborn combines some of the racial traits of her original race and her new form. Only those traits gained from transformation are given here; see also the Mechanics of Rebirth sidebar.
• +2 Constitution, –2 Dexterity. Dragonborn are hearty and healthy, but they are awkward in their newly adopted bodies.
• Humanoid (dragonblood): Dragonborn are humanoids with the dragonblood subtype and any other subtypes they had before undergoing the Rite of Rebirth. For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a dragon and a member of her original race.
• Age: After a dragonborn undergoes the Rite of Rebirth, she emerges as an adult creature regardless of her previous age. If she lives for 200 years (see Table 1–1, page 10), she enters middle age.
• +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class against creatures of the dragon type. The dragonborn have an innate
sense of how best to defend themselves against their
potential enemies.
• Immunity to Frightful Presence: Dragonborn are
immune to the frightful presence ability of dragons,
just as if they were dragons.
• Draconic Aspect: Bahamut has blessed the dragonborn
with aspects combining some of the best attributes of good dragons. Upon completing the Rite of Rebirth, a dragonborn chooses which of the following three aspects to manifest. Once the choice is made, it cannot be changed.
Heart (Su): A dragonborn who chooses heart as her draconic aspect gains a breath weapon. The breath weapon is a bright, shining line that coruscates with every metallic color. The line’s length is 5 feet per Hit Die the dragonborn has, up to a maximum of 100 feet at 20 HD. The breath weapon deals 1d8 points of damage, plus an extra 1d8 points for each 3 HD the dragonborn possesses (2d8 at 3 HD, 3d8 at 6 HD, and so on). The damage can be acid, cold, electricity, or fire, changing on each use as the dragonborn chooses. A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the dragonborn’s HD + her Con modifier) halves the damage. A dragonborn can use her breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds.
Mind (Ex): A dragonborn who selects the mind aspect sharpens her senses, gaining immunity to paralysis and magic sleep effects. She gains darkvision out to 30 feet
and low-light vision, plus a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
At 6 HD, the dragonborn’s darkvision extends to 60 feet.
At 9 HD, the dragonborn’s darkvision extends to 90 feet, and her low-light vision allows her to see three times as far as a human in shadowy illumination.
At 12 HD, the dragonborn’s darkvision extends to 120 feet, and her low-light vision allows her to see four times as far as a human in shadowy illumination.
At 15 HD, the dragonborn gains blindsense out to 30 feet.
Wings (Ex): A dragonborn who selects the wings aspect hatches sporting fully formed wings. Dragonborn can use these wings to aid their jumps (granting a +10 racial bonus on Jump checks) and to glide. Those with 6 HD or more can use their wings to fly.
Gliding: A dragonborn can use her wings to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Dragonborn glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Even if a dragonborn’s maneuverability improves, she can’t hover while gliding. A dragonborn can’t glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.
If a dragonborn becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, her wings naturally unfurl, and powerful ligaments stiffen them.
Dragonborn have a new dragonblood shape, but discerning eyes can still see their former identities.
The dragonborn descends slowly in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter the actual distance of the fall.
Flight: When a dragonborn who selected the wings aspect reaches 6 HD, she gains a fly speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. A dragonborn can’t fly while carrying a medium or heavy load or while fatigued or exhausted.
A dragonborn can safely fly for a number of consecutive rounds equal to her Constitution modifier (minimum 1 round). She can double this length of flight but is fatigued by such exertion. The dragonborn is likewise fatigued after spending a total of more than 10 minutes per day flying. Because a dragonborn can glide before, after, and between rounds of actual flight, she can remain aloft for extended periods, even if she can only use flight for 1 round at a time without becoming fatigued.
When she reaches 12 HD, a dragonborn has enough stamina and prowess to fly without tiring. She can fly at a speed of 30 feet (average maneuverability) with no more exertion than walking or running.
A dragonborn with flight can make a dive attack. A dive attack works like a charge, but the dragonborn must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. A dragonborn can make a dive attack only when
wielding a piercing weapon. If the dive attack hits, it deals double damage.
A dragonborn with flight can use the run action while flying, provided she flies in a straight line.
• AutomaticLanguages:Draconic. Dragonborn gain the ability to speak Draconic upon their transformation but do not lose the ability to speak languages they already know.
• FavoredClass:Fighter. A multiclass dragonborn’s fighter class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for being a multiclassed character. Furthermore, dragonborn paladins can leave that class and return to it without penalty. Also, see the Mechanics of Rebirth sidebar.


The only mention of adjustment to settings is Eberron, and they cite this mainly due to the lack of Bahamut as a god. Otherwise I get the impression that so long as Bahamut is a setting deity, the Rite very well could exist.

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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 22:36 PM 

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Need lore on bladesingers aside the wiki entry.

Is the Triumvir a bard college?


 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 23:27 PM 

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Very little lore on bladesingers. I don't know what "the wiki entry" is and what it says, but have you read the 3e Prestige Class description (I think there's one in Complete Warrior and another in Races of Faerûn)? Apart from that, there's the stuff in The Complete Book of Elves, in Elves of Evermeet, and The Fall Of Myth Drannor (just details about Josidiah Starym). There's a mediocre short story in Realms Of The Elves about one, and a novel named Bladesinger but I have no idea about that. There's also this related article about Duskblades, which shows the tradition isn't necessarily reduced to just the 3e PrC: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070228

Quote:
The Complete Book Of Elves says:

Bladesong Fighting Style
Dedicated elf warriors take their craft seriously
enough to have created a uniquely elven
fighting style. Unlike the martial arts of other
races, the elven fighting style, also known as
the bladesong, emphasizes beauty and economy
of movement over sheer destructive
power. However, the elven bladesong is deceptively
dangerous, for all its seeming gentleness
and apparent grace.
There are two types of bladesingers: those
who learn it as an additional skill (described
below), and those who have made it their
lives. Those in this second category are
known as Bladesingers, and they are de-
scribed in Chapter Ten.
Bladesong is so named for several reasons.
The first and most obvious is because of the
whistling of the blade as it slices through the
air when this style of fighting is used. The second
is for the haunting, wordless tune many
of its practitioners sing as they fight.
Those who practice the bladesong appear as
if they are dancing when they fight. Their
movements seem misleadingly slow and elegant,
deflecting opponents' blades while lazily
drifting back to score hits themselves. The
technique requires, above all, misdirection
and subtlety. The bladesingers do not believe
in smashing blows or strong and crushing offense,
but rather in guiding their opponents to
anticipate a different attack entirely, thus
overbalancing the foe and making him seem
clumsy.
Bladesinging can be done with any Smallor
Medium-sized melee weapon, although the
majority of practitioners practice their art
with the sword. Due to the awkwardness of
polearms and two-handed weapons, there are
no known students of bladesinging proficient
in these weapons.
To take advantage of the bladesinging technical
benefits, the character (who must be a
member of the warrior, priest, rogue, or warrior/
mage classes) must devote at least two
weapon proficiency slots to the style. Otherwise,
the character can gain no benefits from
the technique. This cost does not include the
initial slot devoted to learning rudimentary
use of the weapon, so the total cost is three
weapon slots.
Obviously, rogues and priests cannot pick
up this technique until they reach the 4th level
or higher, since they start out with only two
weapon proficiency slots and don't acquire a
third until having progressed in levels. (As
noted above, mages cannot learn this style at
all.) Even if rogues and priests devote all their
initial slots to a weapon and the first half of
the bladesong proficiency, they must take a
significant amount of time away from adventuring
to learn the second half. Unless their
companions are remarkably understanding
---


Unfortunately the right-hand column on that page of the PDF is corrupted so I can't copy-paste. Try to get your hands on it, even if it's a bit outdated. Later on, the Bladesinger class/kit is described:

Quote:
BLADESWGER
Of the roving elves, there are few as deadly as
the Bladesinger. They are masters of their
weapons and have spent their lives in the
study of their chosen weapons. They have also
learned to cast spells while engaged in combat,
and thus they double their might.
To be a Bladesinger, a character needs at
least a 13 Strength and Constitution, as well
as a 15 Dexterity and Intelligence.
Role. While some characters may stay at
home to defend the elven way, Bladesingers go
out and actively promote it. They do this by
seeking out their race's foes and eliminating
them, either through words or actions. Acting
as both diplomats and one-elf armies, they insure
the safety of the elf race.
Secondary Skills. Hunter, Trader/
Barterer, Trapper/Furrier.
Weapon Proficiencies. Bonus: None.
Recommended: One-weapon style for use in
combat and spells; two-handed style for use
when spells run out.
Bonus Nonweapon Proficiencies. Blind-
Fighting, Dancing.
Recommended Nonweapon Proficiencies.
Etiquette, Juggling, Singing, Tumbling,
Weaponsmithing.
Equipment. The Bladesinger is always
identifiable by his weapon of choice. Such an
item is always ornate and beautiful, enhancing
the Bladesinger's appearance in battle.
Distinctive Appearance. Not only are
they easily identifiable by their weapon of
choice and catlike grace, Bladesingers are decorated
with their weapon guilds distinctive
tattoo. Each guild has a separate and unique
tattoo depicting its style of weapon through
an animal representation. Long swords are often
represented by great cats such as lions or
panthers, a whip would be shown as a striking
snake, and so forth.
Special Benefits. There are four special
benefits to the Bladesinger kit, as follows:
1. The Bladesinger chooses one weapon
and practices with it extensively, to the exclusion
of most other weapons. If practice makes
perfect, the Bladesingers are very well practiced
in their weapon of choice-for they are
virtually perfect.
The poised steps of the bladesong (the act of
attack by a Bladesinger) not only reveals the
Bladesinger to be a creature of beauty even
during battle, but the steps also carry him into
advantageous positions for either offense or
defense. He can instinctively grasp the flow of
the battle around him, and his feet will carry
him through the intricate maneuvers necessary
to optimize his attack.
Such is the intensive training of the Bladesinger
that he gains an automatic + 1 to hit as
well as a + 1 for damage. This is in addition to
the normal elven +1 for use of the long or
short sword (if applicable). Despite any additional,
further training, this is as high as the
bonus can be.
2. Bladesingers receive a special bonus
when they wish to try an unusual maneuver
with their blade. This bonus is equal to + 1 for
every four levels the Bladesinger has attained.
The bonus only serves to cancel the penalties
normally applied for such a maneuver. All
other penalties and bonuses still apply.
---


Same here with the copy-paste.

My own (PC's) take at Bladesingers can be read in the Library. There's a lot of potential for creativity when it comes to Bladesingers. In my RP, I tried to squeeze everything out of the small descriptions for each ability, and connect them with some theme. If you have any specific questions and can't get your hands on the books, ask away.

Triumvir was supposed to be part bard college, or at least a gathering place. It was never a functioning one, though, as far as I know.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 20 2010, 6:41 AM 

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Bladeswagger?

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DustSpray101
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 20 2010, 8:56 AM 

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Sure. He is a sentient sword with a swagger. :lol:

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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 20 2010, 16:51 PM 

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http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bladesinger

Thats the small wiki entry.


 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 20 2010, 17:11 PM 

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RoF and CW have slightly different specifics. Here's the Complete Warrior version:
http://iourn.com/dnd/classes/prestigecl ... singer.htm

Here's some semi-canon lore from Erik Scott de Bie, two large posts on bladesingers on this page:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?T ... ichpage=29,

Edit: I'll just paste the posts here:

ESdB wrote:
Well, I'm glad you asked, as I didn't get the chance to go into it in the book, but here we go!

According to Ed, the elves were the first ones to create what we on Earth would call "fencing"--i.e., fighting side-to-side with a light rapier/smallsword/saber/what-have-you, as far back as the Crown Wars. Humans have only recently *rediscovered* what the elves had long since surpassed in favor of the more elegant and "perfect" bladesong ("recently rediscovered" as in, 300 or 400 years ago).

Fencing as a genre of fighting (as I recall according to Ed) is called in the Realms "blade-chime" or "sword-grace," albeit translated into Elvish, so it sounds cooler: kerymvian roughly means "graceful sword," and I would suggest this as a possible elven name for "fencing", or at least one possible school of fencing.

There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of different elven schools of swordplay, from kerymvian to the simple keryth ("war-sword," being the sword style that elven soldiers teach to new recruits, what we'd call "basic training"), to the graceful and elegant kery'faen ("life-sword," which focuses on defense and non-lethal combat--i.e., dealing subdual damage and making your opponent defeat himself without harm), to my favorite mhaor'arkerym ("greatsword of the corruptor"--a style that utilizes two-handed swords and works to wear down an opponent stylishly and with debilitating magic channeled through one's strikes).

Note that elves rarely use two-handed weapons in conjunction with bladesong, though it is not entirely unknown as early as the 14th century. Depending on what elves you ask, two-handed sword-wielders may or may not be *true* bladesingers--most of them are members of the duskblade class. If you're looking ahead to 1479, I imagine the influx of sword-magic styles from Returned Abeir (swordmages using the aegis of assault style) have had some influence on elven bladesong (elf and eladrin swordmages, at least those who live in the mortal realms). Still, most 4e bladesingers use a single one-handed sword and the aegis of shielding style.

These are *genres* of fencing styles, and most individual schools are named after a specific master, such as Natha kerymvian, a dueling style developed by the Nathalans of Evermeet (of which Yldar Nathalan is a practitioner, albeit not a skilled one toward the beginning of his career (in 1362 ["tGT"] he's only about 5th level, though by 1374-5 he's about 16th level).

Torlic's particular style (which does not itself have a name, as it's a bastardization) is self-taught and uniquely developed, but relies heavily on two distinct but related (in that both use the rapier) sword styles:

One is the acrobatic school of sword-dance called kerym syolkiir, which means "shooting star sword," which relies on blasing fast attacks at a distance (similar to what he tries on Walker in the end of the duel). Torlic's style could *almost* be called this, but he lacks the magical element: kerym syolkiir is generally a bladesong style that relies on magic to speed one's movements and heighten one's accuracy (read: haste spell and cat's grace), and it takes a REALLY impressive duelist (like Torlic) to pull the style off unaided.

The other style from which Torlic derived a number of his tricks is called "flash-arrow" (nyr'iolaa) by humans, for its emphasis on "flashy" (Elvish: nyrrt) moves and feints to distract you and lightning fast "arrow" (Elvish: iolaa) thrusts (generally as ripostes to a missed blow) to finish you. (Point of interest: Twilight's sword style borrows largely from nyr'iolaa and her teacher Neveren was a swordmaster of one such school.)

Torlic was not raised among elves and while he picked up some wicked moves from elves he dueled (and defeated, because that's how it works), it would be conceited of him to call his style "elvish" (not that he isn't conceited). He fought duelists who followed both those schools and took the tricks he wanted. If he had actually spent the time with an elven swordmaster who would accept him (his attitude cost him more than one teacher), he would probably be a better duelist.

Tangentially related point of interest: biir-kerym ("junk-sword") is a general term elves use to describe any sword-school they consider inferior to their own (generally speaking, *any* sword-style not taught by elves), and more specifically refers to self-taught swordsmanship. If you learned how to fight by doing, rather than through instruction, your style is biir-kerym, or just generally biir, which is the elven word for "junk" or "crap."

It is considered a *massive* insult to describe your opponent's style as biir-kerym.

Cheers


P.S. I should note that I'm not strictly making up these elvish phrases, though the combinations of words is mine own. The roots come from notes provided me by none other than Steven Schend, noted Realms scholar and helluva guy.


Quote:
I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of schools of elven fighting out there, but I figure that bladesong styles follow three general genres (like we'd say foil, saber, epee in fencing), determined generally by one's weapon of choice:

- rapier/thinblade, weapon finessible: kerymvian ("graceful sword"). This bladesinger is well represented by the bladesinger PrC, focusing on spells and abilities that take advantage of his high dexterity and enhance mobility.

- longsword/broadsword/etc, not weapon finessible: keryth ("war sword"). Ditto the bladesinger PrC, except this character picks feats that take advantage of a more balanced distribution of abilities and uses spells to enhance strength and fighting prowess.

- two-handed sword (any type): arkerym--great sword. This type of bladesinger is better represented by a straight progression through the duskblade base class, as the PrC bladesinger pretty much requires use of either a longsword or a rapier (or the equivalent).

The two-handed styles limit your spellcasting abilities (because bladesingers can perform their semantic castings with the off-hand), so it is correspondingly the rarest and most difficult style of bladesong. (In mechanical terms, think of the range of spells for duskblades vs. wizard/fighters.)

A two-hander is represented by the duskblade class constructed with a two-handed sword in mind (see Tom and my writeup of Yldar and Cythara Nathalan for substitution levels for elven duskblades: http://www.candlekeep.com/downloads/gre ... easure.zip).

Generally speaking, you can pull off most of the spells a two-hander can do with a one-handed style (i.e., you can be a einhander duskblade, but you're severely hampered if you're a two-handed PrC bladesinger).

The elven courtblade (Races of the Wild) is an exception to these guidelines, and the bladesong style utilizing that particular weapon is a mix of kerymvian and arkerym styles. (The afore-mentioned mhaor'arkerym utilizes a courtblade.)

In 4e FR (for those making the jump), this transitions naturally into the swordmage. Two-handed bladesingers generally choose the aegis of assault and throw themselves entirely into offense, while one-handed bladesingers more often go the traditional path of the coronal guard, with the aegis of shielding ability.

The magic is roughly the same (all swordmages can in theory do the same magic as all other swordmages, so your two-hander isn't limited the way he was in 3e), but that's because magic is different 3e to 4e.

More about biir-kerym:

When I was in high school, my basketball coach always got on the cases of the guys who would go out and shoot hoops all the time and play informal pick-up games for their practice. He called it "jungle ball"--it's not about teamwork or style or finesse but about the individual winning by any means necessary, no matter how graceless or unpolished it looks.

It's a very undisciplined, improvised hodge-podge of skills and techniques coupled with raw enthusiasm, which is essentially what you get if you try and teach yourself to fight. You might be really good (or really lucky) but without formal training, your swordsmanship is biir-kerym. To become a student of a particular school, you'd have to unlearn all that self-taught biir and replace it.

Interestingly, the greatest swordmasters in history (in fact, ALL swordmasters in history) were once deviants who followed no particular school, or at least broke away from one school to found another. Whether your style is considered biir or one of the treasured wonders of elven swordplay depending directly on 1) how successful you are, and 2) how popular you are.

So if you're trying to start a trend or build a school of swordplay patterned after your own unique style, don't neglect that charisma stat . . . or at least befriend a bard or a few.

Cheers


And here's a link to a write-up on a short-story NPC bladesinger:
http://candlekeep.com/downloads/greater-treasure.zip

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 20 2010, 18:40 PM 

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Question about Werewolf Rangers.
    You've got a Werewolf Ranger with a companion. What on earth happens when you Shift? According to Monster Manual, you appoint the alignment of the creature (In this case, Chaotic Evil).

    The MM1 states that, "Evil-Aligned lycantrophes seek to murder as many intelligent creatures as possible, often killing their own family members and friends"
    Then technically, The Animal Companion should be the first on the 'To kill list' of a lycantrophe, Since it's logically in the closest proximity of the lycantrophe and shares a bond?

    Am i wrong to assume this?

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Last edited by Mobile_Svensk on Mon, Dec 20 2010, 18:54 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
hendrack
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 20 2010, 18:44 PM 

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Righto, thanks for all the stuff Iron. My elf uses a halberd though, so I gonna take inspiration from that and create something homebrewed.


 
      
gorgometh
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 21 2010, 1:48 AM 

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Right, I've got a questions about Paladins. I've started playing my first and I've got a question about that oh so mushy subject, love. I looked through some source info and even the wiki and I could not find anything about paladins in regards to sex or chastity. Helm himself apparently had a lover once, so if anyone out there knows more than me, help a brotha out.


 
      
Nivo
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 21 2010, 1:54 AM 

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As far as I know, vows of chastity vary depending on the order. For example. Paladins of Sune would surely not espouse this virtue. Those like Torm and Helm, may.

A general answer without looking up any orders specifically.

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gorgometh
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 21 2010, 2:08 AM 

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Thanks Nivo. That is what I had assumed with the amount of information I found. A discussion on the subject had gotten me curious to see if what you said and what I thought was really the case.


 
      
Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 21 2010, 3:18 AM 

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gorgometh wrote:
Right, I've got a questions about Paladins. I've started playing my first and I've got a question about that oh so mushy subject, love. I looked through some source info and even the wiki and I could not find anything about paladins in regards to sex or chastity. Helm himself apparently had a lover once, so if anyone out there knows more than me, help a brotha out.


As with anything dealing with paladins, there are very, very few generalities that remain true throughout all paladins. This is not one of them.

I'd say it depends more upon the individual and their particular upbringing in the church than the specific deity or one of their respective orders. D&D as a whole never really does into romantic and sexual relations. Mainly because it matters little for anything but plot, and in that case, the DM can always have the final word.

While again, it really depends on the person as very few dogma's even mention anything about relationships, I think I can speak on Torm as he's the one deity I know pretty much in and out when it comes to paladins:

In general, I don't see any reason the Tormish would have a hard view on chastity or sex, as long as it doesn't interfere with their duties. Torm, of all the paladin-heavy deities, might arguably have more empathy for mortals and their flaws and needs for ahem...relations. After all, he was a mortal servant of the divine at one point himself, who lived and possibly loved just as any one else would.

Of course, deities are absolutely the realm of DM's(who can correct me if this is all just malarkey), but I'd imagine he would be fine with his clergy, even paladins having lovers, so long as their relationships don't move them towards more nefarious things, like lust, obsession, or sex-addiction, as those things would detract from their duty.

The hardest view I could see any Tormish having, based off of dogma alone, and it'd pretty much be their harsh interpretation of it, would be like what the Jedi have: No relationships at all, as anything that detracts from the moment at hand clouds your vision. The fear of loosing someone might take your mind away from doing your job when you have to and keeping the greater good in mind. To quote Yoda: "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

SN: Torm is the Forgotten Realms Jesus. He was a mortal who rose to great and divine acclaim in life. He died for the sake of his people and is risen to life again 2 days later. Cool. ^^


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 21 2010, 6:07 AM 

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Vows of loe and chastity depend entirley on the order and deity and sometimes individual paladins. Little paladins have to come from somewhere.

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 21 2010, 9:16 AM 

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Yeah. I doubt any church has a blanket policy about it. There are usually very different roles and religious approaches within the same religion, in the real world as well as the Realms. To me, it makes perfect sense that a Sunite would be chaste. Preserving virginity might be an important holy duty to some of her worshipers, who want to protect and cherish their unmarred beauty and embrase the purity of spiritual love. But then again, others might opt to start a family. I'm sure there's room for almost any combination of god and attitude, if it's explained well. You need to think about what it means to your PC, and understand his choices.

Some churches officially organize for paladins and priests to hook up between missions for a night of no strings attached, so that they can go on with their jobs happily afterwards. This comes from Ed. He's a bit of a lewd old man. :?

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sYuzan
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 3:47 AM 

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A question I've been pondering for a good while about drow and their eyesight.

Drow were born to get along in dark places with no light, and I've at least read about drow having something of a heat-vision/infravision or alike, though I'm not sure if that exists on Amia. But if the drow have such advanced sights for dark places etcetera, do hoods actually cover faces from a drow's sight? Usually hoods just cast the face into shadow of the hood, to darkness, but if beings like drow are capable of seeing in pitch-black darkness, do they also see beneath hoods?

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Gers
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 3:56 AM 

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In darkness, I imagine they possibly could. But if it's even slightly bright out, it'd probably be enough to switch off their heatvision in favor of regular light vision. Drow eyes, at least unadapted ones, are supposed to be really sensitive to even the lowest amounts of light.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 3:56 AM 

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No.

edit: I mean "no, you can't use xray vision to see people's faces under hoods. That's silly. You're silly."

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sYuzan
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 3:59 AM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
No.

edit: I mean "no, you can't use xray vision to see people's faces under hoods. That's silly. You're silly."


Thank you for a swift reply, you silly thing.

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LetumLux
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 4:01 AM 

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sYuzan wrote:
A question I've been pondering for a good while about drow and their eyesight.

Drow were born to get along in dark places with no light, and I've at least read about drow having something of a heat-vision/infravision or alike, though I'm not sure if that exists on Amia. But if the drow have such advanced sights for dark places etcetera, do hoods actually cover faces from a drow's sight? Usually hoods just cast the face into shadow of the hood, to darkness, but if beings like drow are capable of seeing in pitch-black darkness, do they also see beneath hoods?

IIRC, Infravision was dropped and replaced entirely by Darkvision in 3.0 - it's all inverted brightness now, nothing to do with heat. Which I think is rather boring, but then again I can't cite some hard sources at the moment, so maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong, because I'm pretty sure that negates a lot of the purpose of the iconic piwafwi, which dispersed/dampened the wearer's body heat.


 
      
Yurell
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 4:25 AM 

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Infravision always sounded stupid to me. I mean, you're trying to see stuff at the same wavelength your body is glowing. I mean, your retina will likely be shining brighter than the things you want to see.

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MoshingChris
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 5:11 AM 

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Take your logic and science out of my fantasy game Yurell.

*mutter grumble*

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LetumLux
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 5:17 AM 

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The simpler explanation is that all Underdark/Infravision-having races had heat pits like vipers! Yes? Yes? Okay, I'll leave.


 
      
Note2_Self
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 6:07 AM 

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"But if the drow have such advanced sights for dark places etcetera, do hoods actually cover faces from a drow's sight?"

Light affects dark more than dark affects light. If you're standing in a shadow, looking across a daylight exposed field to another shadow, your darkvision-esque abilities are not going to help you.


 
      
wereguy2
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 8:48 AM 

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Not sure if this belongs here, but what year is it on Amia, currently?

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Yurell
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 9:11 AM 

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1379 I believe.

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wereguy2
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 9:16 AM 

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*gasp* Spellplague's comin' up!

EDIT. Actually, on this matter, how does time work? Is it in correspondence to RL time or what?

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Strawberry Stallion
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 10:49 AM 

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When the DMs say it's been a year, it's been a year.

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QPR
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 11:01 AM 

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Amia time corresponds to what time the DMs says it is. And the Spellplague won't happen. Not on Amia anyway.

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Gers
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 11:23 AM 

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Yep, 4.0 will never come to Amia. We have no desire to integrate it's screwy lore into the server. Not to say individual events might not be, but nothing on the level of the Spellplague.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 19:31 PM 

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Never say never.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 20:14 PM 

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So. As promised, Im here to know moar about Arcane Archers.
    What is it?
    Does it work like Ki?
    Is it only magical?
    Must you have a Seldarine Deity to use it?
    Can you be an AA without being elven?
    How can half elves be AA's?

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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 20:33 PM 

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Arcane archey is ... arcane, so deities should not play a great role. Usually it's a master/apprentice thing. Normally elves/half-elves only. I suppose it can be teached to drow but any elf doing so, would be extremely hated by other elves. Amia's different of course.


 
      
GreatPigeon
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 20:40 PM 

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How about snow elves? I wanted to make a snow elf, was curious?

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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 20:41 PM 

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Generally, all elves and half-elf bastards.


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 20:44 PM 

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hendrack wrote:
Arcane archey is ... arcane, so deities should not play a great role. Usually it's a master/apprentice thing. Normally elves/half-elves only. I suppose it can be teached to drow but any elf doing so, would be extremely hated by other elves. Amia's different of course.


Arcane Arhery is a divine gift from Solonor Theliandria, Elven Deity of Archery.

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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 21:11 PM 

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Why are there drow AAs then, on Amia? Underdark drow. Either put restrictions on that, or come up with some cool explanation on Amia. :cry:


 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 21:24 PM 

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Where's that info from? It isn't mentioned in Solonor's entries in Demihuman Deities or Faiths & Pantheons, and it isn't part of the PrC description in the DMG. Drow meet the DMG prerequisites for the Prestige Class, and other sources rarely add new restrictions on classes introduced elsewhere.

As for Snow Elves, they have no Arcane Archer tradition whatsoever. I guess they are biologically suitable, but it would be something totally new to them that they'd have to pick up during their life as a PC. Snow Elves don't do arcane magic at all, as you can read from the subrace article.

To answer Svenk's questions:
It's a style that blends arcane magic with your archery. Pretty simple. It's arcane magic, actual spells and some automatic enchantments, not Ki or something else. It doesn't require any religious affiliation. Half-Elves can be AA because they can. I imagine it has to do with both culture and the unique connection to the Weave all elves have on a biological level.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 21:35 PM 

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Yay! then my concept isn't entirely lost... just a little flawed!
How does one learn it then? is it like hendrack says, with master/Apprentice thing?

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 21:45 PM 

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I don't think the DMG specifies that. It's something elves practice and there's warbands of arcane archers, so I bet there's both master-apprentice training and larger classes. Arcane archers are way more numerous than bladesingers, for example, who're specifically said to be trained one-on-one. So the fluff is for you to shape, keeping in mind that there's a rich PC-made AA tradition on Amia already.

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QPR
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 21:49 PM 

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When I made my half-elf AA (with severe complexes about the part elf thing) I played as if the AA talent is an inherent potential within all with elven blood, much like how someone becomes an RDD. All elves and half elves have the potential, but not all develop that particular ability. Having a mentor is probably how most learn it, while others are self-learned through force of determination, like it was the case for my half elf who were not overly fond of his distant "cousins".

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 23:00 PM 

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The simple reason, as I see it, is Arcane Archer requires you to be elven for the same reason Dwarven Defender requires you to be a dwarf. It just does. That's all there is to it. That's it. Rationalize it down to whatever lore you need, but that's where it ends up.

As to why half-elves can be AA's, well in PnP, half-elves are treated as full-elves when it comes to anything dealing with racial requirements. Like in PnP, if it required an elf to be able to wield a particular sword, a half-elf still qualifies. And a ranger specializing with Favored Enemy: Elf would get all the same bonii against a Half-Elf as he would an Elf.

Half-Elf is pretty much a mary-sue way to look mostly human and get elven perks, IMO. At least in PnP. It's the original gimmicky "half-breed", akin to Underworld's Vampire-Lycan Hybrid and other oddities.


 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 23:21 PM 

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Dark Immolation wrote:
The simple reason, as I see it, is Arcane Archer requires you to be elven for the same reason Dwarven Defender requires you to be a dwarf. It just does. That's all there is to it. That's it. Rationalize it down to whatever lore you need, but that's where it ends up.

As to why half-elves can be AA's, well in PnP, half-elves are treated as full-elves when it comes to anything dealing with racial requirements. Like in PnP, if it required an elf to be able to wield a particular sword, a half-elf still qualifies. And a ranger specializing with Favored Enemy: Elf would get all the same bonii against a Half-Elf as he would an Elf.

Half-Elf is pretty much a mary-sue way to look mostly human and get elven perks, IMO. At least in PnP. It's the original gimmicky "half-breed", akin to Underworld's Vampire-Lycan Hybrid and other oddities.


That's not "all there is to it." That's not a reason or an explanation either, in any sense of the word. That's the observation we set out to explain. We can explain it in in-game terms or out-of-game terms, but the latter is irrelevant and too complex anyhow because we'd have to know the motivations and plans of the design team of the time. There should always be an in-game reason for rules, and most of the time there is (though less so with the decline of lore in 3e). Dwarven Defenders need to be Dwarves because that's the Dwarven tradition that isn't taught to outsiders and that really couldn't be, due to different physiology (though a mechanically identical PrC for other races might exist). It's the same with AA: there are probably both nature and nurture reasons. That is, culture and a unique connection to the Weave (elven and human wizards practice different magics). The game mechanics are subservient to those reasons, and a good DM will always accomodate exceptions to rules if there's a good in-game reason and no balance issues.

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 23 2010, 23:25 PM 

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IronAngel wrote:
There should always be an in-game reason for rules,


You're preaching to the choir, Iron. But that's what it comes down to most of the time. There is an in-game way things work. Sometimes that way is based off of the lore, sometimes we have to make lore around it.


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Fri, Dec 24 2010, 6:24 AM 

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IronAngel wrote:
Where's that info from? It isn't mentioned in Solonor's entries in Demihuman Deities or Faiths & Pantheons, and it isn't part of the PrC description in the DMG. Drow meet the DMG prerequisites for the Prestige Class, and other sources rarely add new restrictions on classes introduced elsewhere.



Mahtan wrote:
It was mentioned in Elves of Evermeet and Elves of Faerun. And it just fits in with the lore that all Elven abilities and classes are blessing from the Seldarine. And the Drow, lost every last one of them.

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TeroSNS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Dec 24 2010, 8:47 AM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
Question about Werewolf Rangers.
    You've got a Werewolf Ranger with a companion. What on earth happens when you Shift? According to Monster Manual, you appoint the alignment of the creature (In this case, Chaotic Evil).

    The MM1 states that, "Evil-Aligned lycantrophes seek to murder as many intelligent creatures as possible, often killing their own family members and friends"
    Then technically, The Animal Companion should be the first on the 'To kill list' of a lycantrophe, Since it's logically in the closest proximity of the lycantrophe and shares a bond?

    Am i wrong to assume this?

it says intelligent creatures, I'd assume it excludes animals, especially wolves which you are sort of bonded to.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Fri, Dec 24 2010, 9:01 AM 

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Yay! Even though it's a little Cliché, It's a loophole - It fits his Persona to Pick up a Wolf as companion.

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TeroSNS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Dec 24 2010, 9:32 AM 

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Wolf Empathy (Ex)

Communicate with wolves and dire wolves, and +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against wolves and dire wolves.


Monster manual werewolf. each werecreature is empathied to its respective animal(s).

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