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DerkDerkistan wrote:

Speaking of the dead, I would like my morbid curiosity sated.

When children die, how are they judged? I wouldn't think that children pay much allegiance to any particular god as an adult would. Rather, I think that they wouldn't be qualified to pray to them in such a meaningful manner as to know they belong to a certain god. They would not have their personalities developed yet to form the person that they would be. After all, isn't that a big part of why people are chosen by or choose certain gods?

I'm not sure that's addressed at all.

I'd bet there are baptisms and similar rituals for different faiths that might place children under a particular god though. I'm kind of shooting in the dark with that, so I might be totally wrong. Just thinking off the top of my head here. I imagine that otherwise, they might go to the fugue and stay there or something, as a sort of purgatory. Maybe even the wall.

Again speculation but I'd assume it makes no difference really. If a child was faithful as a child could be, fine then he goes off to the godly realm otherwise Kelemvor renders his judgement though for children I imagine there wouldn't be anything to punish.

I know that Siamorphans have baptisms, if they're rich enough(they apparently cost a good deal of money). What they're exactly supposed to do or provide for the child, I do not know. I imagine something like blessing them in the hopes of growing up to be a wise and right ruler.

Wouldn't be too odd for other religions to do it. Even if Kelemvor is a fair judge to children, in a world where people know that Faithless get melded to the Wall, I don't imagine they'd take any chances with their children's souls.

As for how Kelemvor judges, I'd imagine he'd be just about it. I don't think he would damn them to the wall or punishment until they were old enough to reach a point of understanding about the whole thing. From the moment they have knowledge of the gods and then actively choose not to worship any of them, or something.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

Dead wrote:

But not undead. More like a soul of a dead person communicating with the one who is still living?
Souls travel to the realm of the deity right? But the question is weather they can communicate with the living ones?

There are spells that would allow communication, yes. But generally speaking, when the dead come back to the prime without the use of raise dead, resurrection, true resurrection or reincarnate, they're undead. There are some exceptions, of course.

But what if they did not come back to prime at all. What if the dead person appeared in someone's dream, bringing a message, but staying in its realm? Is that possible?

Dead wrote:

But what if they did not come back to prime at all. What if the dead person appeared in someone's dream, bringing a message, but staying in its realm? Is that possible?

Here it seems like you're asking about whether the gods can allow a soul they've claimed to interact with the mortal world, and generally speaking, if the question is, "Are the gods capable of doing <fill in the blank>?" then the answer is just about always Yes.

Whether they would choose to do so is another question, of course, but I'm sure there are several powers who'd be at least open to the idea (Sehanine Moonbow springs to mind, but only because one of my characters is a Sehanine follower; I'm sure there are other plausible examples too).

Kelemvor is "always just and fair" but who's to say what that actually means (Well, the DM's say what that means on Amia, but you know what I mean). We all have a different idea of what that means in our heads, after all. This is one of those things like what we discussed previously about the different pantheons relating to the Fugue. There's no sure answer, just speculation.

I think what DerkDerkistan was more trying to get at is toddlers, rather than children who can have a simple understanding of the concept of a god. So a new born, a 1 or 2 or 3 year old. I would still say there are probably traditions in different religions to have a new born "join a faith" until they can make the call for themselves. Again, like a baptism. Perhaps in some faiths it's the simple act of being born to parents from a particular faith that makes you a brother/sister in faith? Who knows.

Dead wrote:

But what if they did not come back to prime at all. What if the dead person appeared in someone's dream, bringing a message, but staying in its realm? Is that possible?

I've personally never read of anything like that actually happening. I'm sure people think it does happen because they might dream about a person who's passed telling them something, but as far as there being confirmation that it indeed was the dead person who did it, I've never read about it. I could be wrong though. ::shrugs::

If any dead would do something like that though, I'd imagine it would be people who followed the more mystical faiths like Selune, Mystra, Eilistraee, Sehanine Moonbow, etc.

Sentient undead or souls haunting/warning people are usually plot devices from my experience in FR. I don't think there's anything mechanically that allows them, it's simply accepted on the rare occasion it happens.

And it's true about deferring opinions of just and fairness, but just from the way Kelemvor decides other things(you get to stay in fugue a week before being judged, you can barter for your soul, your punishment may not always be damnation, but a lesser one, trying to take the mystery and fear out of death for mortals), it just doesn't seem like he would be a dick and somehow judge children on the same grounds as adults.

It's not the same basis and it's a completely different god, but this has me thinking back to Torm and the Martyr's progeny. When he absorbed the souls of his followers, 1) he knew the children of his followers and 2) he reasoned that they did not have the mind to comprehend what was really happening.

It leads me to believe that other gods could likely have this ability(knowing the children of their faithful) and if they die, even if Kelemvor would judge them as Faithless for not knowling better, the god might collect them in Fugue before Kelemvor judged them at all. So it really wouldn't matter what Kelemvor thought of it, as long as the child's parents' deity was on top of things and gave a damn.

But of course, that leaves an even less explained circumstance. What if the child's parents are Faithless? Kelemvor would still have to make a decision.

But there is even another thought I have. Zaphkiel, Celestial Paragon of the 7th Heaven. it is said that "Zaphkiel is the patron of dead children and stillborn babies and watches over their spirits." Perhaps Zaphkiel has a deal worked out with Kelemvor? He's certainly powerful enough and important enough to broker a deal if he wanted to. Perhaps the souls of truly innocent, though ignorant of the divine, children go to him, becoming cherubs or somethin'. Or part of Celestia itself, if you want to be conspiratorial about it. *shifty eyes*

Dark Immolation wrote:

But there is even another thought I have. Zaphkiel, Celestial Paragon of the 7th Heaven. it is said that "Zaphkiel is the patron of dead children and stillborn babies and watches over their spirits." Perhaps Zaphkiel has a deal worked out with Kelemvor? He's certainly powerful enough and important enough to broker a deal if he wanted to. Perhaps the souls of truly innocent, though ignorant of the divine, children go to him, becoming cherubs or somethin'. Or part of Celestia itself, if you want to be conspiratorial about it. *shifty eyes*

Aha! A good find there. I didn't even think to think of the Celestial Paragon!

We do have Limbo in the multiverse. There's no mention of dead kids related to it in D&D, but that's what Limbo really is: a place for unbaptised children. It's a funny observation, if nothing else.

Dark Immolation wrote:

But there is even another thought I have. Zaphkiel, Celestial Paragon of the 7th Heaven. it is said that "Zaphkiel is the patron of dead children and stillborn babies and watches over their spirits." Perhaps Zaphkiel has a deal worked out with Kelemvor? He's certainly powerful enough and important enough to broker a deal if he wanted to. Perhaps the souls of truly innocent, though ignorant of the divine, children go to him, becoming cherubs or somethin'. Or part of Celestia itself, if you want to be conspiratorial about it. *shifty eyes*

That's definitely a nicer option than what I would figure with a blithe thought of it, which is that if one truly has to be spiritual aware to some degree to get into their proper afterlife, that means pretty much every deceased child (talking infant-age here) would end up being Wall mortar. Pretty grim and chilling thought, and definite cause for the slaying of children to be an intensely, truly horrific act.

Oh, killing children could still generally be seen as a horrific act... I mean... it's killing children. >_> Whether they're treated well in the afterlife or not needn't factor into it for a social viewpoint. You're still robbing them of living out a normal, natural life.

But I'm pretty sure infants wouldn't get put in the wall. Either they'd go to Chronias to be watched over by Zaphkiel, or at worst, get absorbed into him and along with it the essence of Celestia. A planar conspiracy if nothing else.

Question of my own. Am I correct in assuming that the magic of Sharran clerics would travel through the Shadow Weave, as opposed to the regular Weave?

Dark Immolation wrote:

Question of my own. Am I correct in assuming that the magic of Sharran clerics would travel through the Shadow Weave, as opposed to the regular Weave?

I would think and hope so. Dirty Sharrans.

Didn't know where to post this, but anyway, can you use the Sorcerer class to Emulate a Warlock? If so, is there anything I should know about Warlock's in general if I was to make one?

It requires a request was what i was told.

Oh, alright then, I'll go with a plain ol' Sorcerer then.

It can be done, I'm not certain if it exactly requires a request, but I'd err on the side of making one, just to be sure.

Warlocks aren't exactly the same thing as sorcs. Their power is innate, but it is gained thought a pact, usually a fiendish one. They tend to be LE-NE-CE-CN or CG. Either chaotic or evil, pretty much. Or both.

How I think is the easiest way to represent it is Sorc/BG. Since they do gain a fiendish servant, I think, in lue of a familiar. The sorc selection of spells would tend to be towards fire and negative energies. Technically, they don't even have spells, they just have Invocations that they can use at will, unlimited times per day(hence the major disconnect with Sorcs, besides the origin of their power). While these invocations are Arcane in nature, they are very linear in their uses. In other words, they're usually only good for weakening things, corrupting things, or simply destroying them, likely because the power originates from fiends and demons.

So if you were to make one, again, a request is probably a good idea. Well, it is if you want to "play" a warlock. I know of a few sorcs with fiendish bloodlines IC that merely refer to themselves as warlocks, but the truth of it of course is that they are sorcs. Secondly, your spell selection would likely center around evocations and draining spells. Ray of enfeeblement, Negative energy ray, Neg energy burst, Bestow Curse, Cloudkill, circle of death, all of these things match up well with the Invocations Warlocks get in PnP.

Edit: Er, dusty beat me to it.

You've always been quite safe mimicking base and prestige classes with what NWN gives you, save perhaps the divine realm (and some superpowerful and unique types of magic). A sorcerer played as a warlock is not something you'd need to request any more than a shaman, runescarred berserker, hathran, bladesinger, eldritch knight, breachgnome, arcane trickster or whatever. As long as you don't claim any extra powers you don't mechanically have, it should be fine. Common sense is the rule of thumb, and beyond that the DMs will tell you personally if they have an issue. You don't have to worry about it if it's not blatantly stupid or against explicit rules. (It's your job and right as a player to be confident about the freedoms the rules grant you, and not double-check DM approval for no reason; that gives them de facto authority they wouldn't formally claim.)

Here's the basics of the Warlock class:
http://bertball.com/MySRD/srd/classes/warlock2.htm

You won't make a perfect Warlock with NWN classes, but you can follow the theme. It's not like Warlock is that much different from a fiendish sorcerer, and there's no reason to make an absolute distinction between the two. A Sorcerer/Blackguard who specializes in a few dark spells they lob around like crazy is very Warlocky.
Class names are ultimately OOC categories, it's not like two characters would actually advance identically and gain the exact same powers IC if it wasn't for the mechanics. If you look like a Warlock, act like a Warlock and call yourself a Warlock, you are a Warlock; the distinction between "real" and "fake" Warlocks is pretty meaningless. If you want mechanical OOC validation for your character (which really is unnecessary), you can just assume you came up with a new base class "Sorcerous Warlock." Classes are clearly something characters can freely create IC, if you look at faction-specific PrCs for example.

If you want to advance all the way to Planar Apotheosis and become an Outsider, though, that's when you need a request. Typically, the line is "Is the concept within the mechanical parametres of NWN (including some enforced additions like deity restrictions)?" and if it is, the flavor is up to you.

Thanks for the info, Dark Immo and Iron!

Please, call him Dark Emo. He likes it.

What's a breachgnome ?

Well, I'm not sure if I really want to know.

Nonsense!

You could Google it? Breach Gnomes are the gnome racial PrC in FR (like Warsling Sniper, Dwarven Defender, Bladesinger etc. for other races), gnomes who're, well, really hard in tight holes. In short, a standard Prestige Class.

Perhaps this?

And..

IronAngel wrote:

...gnomes who're, well, really hard in tight holes.

Best out-of-context quote, ever.

Yes, I think that's the right PrC. I didn't bother to check Races Of Faerûn, because I don't think anyone's actually making one? They're kind of like gnomish DwDs with their own flavor and skills. (But that's unfair bias; you could just as well say DwDs are like Dwarven Breach Gnomes!)

What I said was quite intentional a reply to Opustus enthusiasm. :wink:

I'm not sure if I asked if before, but I would like a DM to say about the perfect disguise. Do we have to roll bluff for that ?

"The perfect disguise"? What?

TormakSaber wrote:

"The perfect disguise"? What?

Like... Amon wearing a tunic, with his face covered by a hood. Someone told me to roll bluff check. I denied it and said to RP that. Since the person doesn't know Amon's true face and the voice is not muffed because he was not using a helm, I can't see how it's possible to him to discover it's Amon. So the person called it as a "perfect disguise".

You don't need to agree to rolls at all unless it is a DM as their DM avatar.

The ability of the hood to cover an entire face is GREATLY exaggerated, btw. Damn hood helm.

Thanks, mate !

Is there more information on this Holy Day?

Quote:

The Holy Day of Imbolic

This is a celebration to banish the winter season, celebrate the change of the old to the new, and a celebration of fertilty and things yet to be born. Also considered to be the 1st of the 3 spring celebatrations.

Gods commonly watching over this holy day: Lathander, Chauntea, the Earthmother (sorry another side note I do consider these 2 seperate beings)

It is common to see lavender or white candles burning, as well as old worn item being thrown out in place of newer items.

Can't find any more info on it that what you have right there. It's just repeated on 1 or 2 other sites. Maybe it's left glib so a DM can add stuff? I'd imagine so, and anyway, seems like it'd be a holiday that's very folksy, celebrations varying from town to town. And it might be based off this, so maybe it might look something like it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbolc

Aother thought on what could happen with Children.

Helm , (For exact reasons I can't remember why) is also known as a guardian of Children so I could see them going to his care.

Na, he's not a guardian of children, he's just likes children. He's said to be a little less strict with them, when he has to deal with them breaking rules/laws.

Having looked at his Dogma he encourages his followers to be particularly protective of Children and the Wounded, that might be where I got that impression.

He does. But if I were looking for a god who protects children, I'd look right at Lathander and Ilmater firstly (and Salandra, on Amia). Secondly, Chauntea and Shiallia.

Not that Helm isn't someone to pray to to protect children, mind. He is, after all, a protector above all things and protects anything that needs protecting. And he does like children, so there's a particular reason -to- look to him for their protection.

In truth though, you can justify protecting children as something important to most all goodly gods and some neutral and even evil ones. Just saying that the gods I mentioned at the beginning of the paragraph are especially concerned with children, being gods of birth, suffering and growth.

I'm sure between all the goodly gods out there, children don't get melded to the wall. Someone picks them up. Actually, may even be a race to them between the good and evil gods. I mean, you get a kid that died at 5, doesn't know much, seems like he'd be easier to mold and morph and brainwash into being a Wretch or a Balor or something destructive just because he doesn't really have that much development as a soul.

So goodly deities might snatch them up like hotcakes from Fugue in the hopes of preserving their innocence and not allowing a bad situation(the kid's dead and ain't gettin' raised) into a worse one(he becomes a freakin' demon in service of evil).

Are dwarfs really a mythical race from legends, or are they just short and muscular humans suffering from a probelm; with the proper diet and exercise can live a normal life?

depends on the setting...

chumpe wrote:

Are dwarfs really a mythical race from legends, or are they just short and muscular humans suffering from a probelm; with the proper diet and exercise can live a normal life?

Is that a serious question?....

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

chumpe wrote:

Are dwarfs really a mythical race from legends, or are they just short and muscular humans suffering from a probelm; with the proper diet and exercise can live a normal life?

Is that a serious question?....

This is the lore question thread is it not? It's a fair question i think.
But no it wasin't very serious, just more out of curiosity

If it's a serious question, I think the only good answer is "neither." Dwarves aren't a mythical race from legends; they're a real, everyday race, that you can meet with on mundane streetcorners and have chats about the weather and the daily orc populations. And they're not just squat little humans either; they're their own separate race, created by different gods at different times.

In D&D, Dwarves are a separate race from Humans. They're their own people, like Hin, Elves, Gnomes, etc. There's not much that's mythical about them, really. They're one of the more common races of people.

But that's mostly thanks to Marthammor Duin, though Vergadain and Sharindlar are very open-minded for Dwarven gods, as well. The Stout Folk are actually very secretive and conservative about their ways and culture. It's not that the said deities of the Mordinsamman would be spilling their secrets around for giggles, it's just that their followers tend to be more affable, suave, and adaptive than the rest of the kin. Not all endorse change as a whole, but Marthammor Duin in particular believes that the Kin must adapt, and melt with other races, learn to live as one, which is a very modern approach to anything for the dwarves. However, I think that the cultural stuff, traditional festivities, dogmata, the like, are very hush-hush and touchy subjects to any dwarf.

That said, dwarves are often very reserved, even stern, unlike the stereotypic drunken brawler model that seems familiar to many. The reason why you don't see them too much is that they're not keen on travelling. You learn pretty much everything relevant about them by reading the dogmas.

Lizzie wrote:

If it's a serious question, I think the only good answer is "neither." Dwarves aren't a mythical race from legends; they're a real, everyday race, that you can meet with on mundane streetcorners and have chats about the weather and the daily orc populations. And they're not just squat little humans either; they're their own separate race, created by different gods at different times.

I like this answer, and it'l make my little friend happy to know that orcs really do exist.

Ok. I'm a bit preoccupied with a new Concept since my Main Char Died. It's a bard

Trouble is, I Rolled a dice to get a random Dragon Heritage to follow, and it turns out it's a Neutral Dragon Aspect.
I assume i can find info about Gem dragons in the Draconomicon, Correct?

But what do you do about the Wing colour of your PC?

Gem dragons, because they are psionic, /must/ be requested beforehand.

Yup, any dragon you can't pick from our system normally must be requested.

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