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What mythologies have been mixed and how is it strange?

A drow would spit at getting spoken to in Common, so that's pretty moot.

Maybe they are reading the Wiki entry for Elf?

I'm wrong, sorry. Forgotten realms campaign setting book has it right there, dark elves -_- I think i'm mixing up the time I spent reading the manual of elves (lord of the rings) compared to corellons story and all that, like I said I don't like elves.

if you ever find a copy of that book you may see why, there are like, 500 types of elves, no joke.

ed: need to stop exadurating >_< but really there are alot more types than dnd.

Can anyone point me to some info on Avariel Elves please, throw me a link or two? Or possibly tell some info here, if it's not too much trouble.

http://cormanthyr-campaign.wikidot.com/avariel

Avariel are the reclusive winged elves, otherwise known as the Aril'tel'quessir. There's only a handful of them still in existance, because when they first ventured into Faerun, they were seen as rivals to the dominion of airspace by the dragons and hunted accordingly. Not many lived.

Those that did used magic to create a tropical environment for themselves with the aid of the Glassteel spell, the largest of which becoming the Aerie of the Snow Eagles. There are other settlements and they're scattered across Faerun, but the Snow Eagles is the largest and most 'well known' place, but it's actual location is unknown to any but the avariel.

Avariel society is made up of two groups that work in harmony - the warrior-like kind who work off a strict code of honour, and the pacifistic kind that are the thinkers and inventors. Avariel tend to act very differently depending on which society they come from, and it's one of the most important things which determines the kind of person they are.

Without exception, avariel pay homage to Aerdrie Faenya, as she is seen as the mother of all winged elves. They're a very spiritual race, more so than most other elven races, as Aerdrie is more or less their own special little goddess that only pays attention to them. Avariel clerics are common, as are fighters. There's a few wizards, too, though most of them belong to the pacifistic group.

Thank you very much!

"Avariel can become fighters (not rangers or paladins), mages, and clerics, as well as the multiclass combinations available to these three."

Does this mean an Avariel would never be/become a Ranger and only become one of the others, also what PRC's would an Avariel be able to take, if any?

Actually, Winged Elf Rangers are pretty damn common. Fighter, Ranger and Cleric are their typical classes. Paladins, not so much. Paladin Elves period I'd imagine are fairly uncommon though. Elves are naturally drawn toward chaotic ways, or so it's said. I don't entirely buy into that though. Elves are way too lawful in too many ways for me to buy the chaotic thing outright, but that's just me (and other opinionated people too, of course).

RE: the distinction between drow vs. dark elves...

I think the confusion comes from how one defines "elf." The elves themselves define "elf" a little differently than the world at large, or perhaps they just use the word to mean something slightly more than do most other people. To the world at large, whether or not someone is an elf is a purely biological question: "elves" are those thin-framed, pointy-eared humanoids that one often finds in nature-y places. To the elves, though, elven-ness is not just a biological consideration, but also a theological and cultural one. To them, an elf is one of "the People": someone who enjoys the protection and favor of the Seldarine; someone who exists within the elven culture.

That's why an elf will tell you that there is no such thing as a "dark elf" (or in the elven language, "ssri-tel'quessir"). Because the dark elves were cast out of the Seldarine's favor, they are no longer "of the People," despite still being biologically elven. An elf just reads a little more into the word "elf" than do the other races (and the game mechanics).

Edit:

Suney wrote:

Aerdrie is more or less their [the avariel's] own special little goddess that only pays attention to them.

I'm not so sure about this, but, I'm late for dinner and have to stop typing now.

Of course. It's like a society that casts out a portion of their people in the real world. Take the Jews in Europe during the times surrounding the Nazis in Europe or Blacks in American from their forced shipping to the Americas till at least 50 years ago now or even LGBT people at different times in different places. Some people considered/consider these folks "not human." Their opinion hardly makes that so, however.

There's a duality in labeling Dark Elves Dark Elves. The duality is in the cultural/social/philosophical sense and the scientific/biological/logical sense. The term finds a more stable definition in the latter more fact based sense. While the former will vary from Elf to Elf, Drow to Drow and, perhaps less importantly, other peoples.

So I guess what I'm getting at is, while in the cultural/social/philosophical sense it can be argued they are or aren't Elves, it can't really be argued in the scientific/biological/logical sense.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

So I guess what I'm getting at is, while in the cultural/social/philosophical sense it can be argued they are or aren't Elves, it can't really be argued in the scientific/biological/logical sense.

This is the same thing I just said.

I think what you're implying (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that the scientific/biological/logical sense is more important, and should override, the cultural/social/philosophical sense, but I see that more as a matter that can legitimately be decided IC. An elf who believes that a drow isn't an elf is not wrong; nor is a human who thinks that the elven distinction between tel'quessir and n-tel'quessir is arbitrary and meaningless. Character and context should rule in this sort of question, I think.

I do dispute the comparison of RL oppressed groups (Jews, blacks, LGBTs, etc.) to the drow. There are two key differences: First, RL Jews, blacks, LGBTs, etc., are basically innocent victims, whereas the historical drow of the FR are actually guilty of a horrible crime. We might debate about whether the punishment for that crime should be borne by the descendants of the original perpetrators, but ICly, it's perfectly legitimate to hold that yes, they should be. Second, In the real world, we don't have first-hand indisputable evidence that certain groups are disfavored by the gods. RL racism is generally a matter of fear, misconception, hate, etc., but in the FR, the gods are far more present on a day-to-day basis, and the elves occasionally have the experience of being plainly told by the Seldarine (the beings who are in charge of the disposition of their immortal souls) that the drow are to be disfavored and shunned. Nobody IRL can cast Commune to ask Jesus how He feels about gays. Thousands upon thousands of people in the FR can directly ask Corellon how he feels about drow, and his answer has always been the same.

I wasn't comparing them totally. I was comparing the feeling some people have/had toward those groups and other groups and how they felt them "not human" or "lesser than." I wouldn't compare it any deeper than that because, like you said, it's too different. I simply wanted to highlight the idea of the cultural/social/philosophical opinion about a group of peoples humanity.

I challenge the idea that because the Elven gods said all Dark Elves are evil and made them Drow that they were in fact all evil and should have all been turned to Drow. The gods aren't perfect, as we know. And what of children born to Drow? Are they not born in to innocence in a sense? I'd dare say that the act of turning them all into evil Drow by the Seldarine was a pretty wicked and evil act in itself. That's all hypothetical and neither here nor there though.

And no, I'm not placing more weight on the scientific/biological/logical sense than the cultural/social/philosophical one. All I was implying is that one is a sure thing, the other is open to interpretation. I totally agree that IC opinions are what matters in the IC world. I'm not trying to promote one view over the other at all OOCly, simply stating that they both exist and they're indeed equally important, in my opinion. So OOCly, the answer to Drow being Elves is both a yes and a no.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

And what of children born to Drow? Are they not born in to innocence in a sense? I'd dare say that the act of turning them all into evil Drow by the Seldarine was a pretty wicked and evil act in itself.

In elven culture, a child is very much responsible for the sins of his/her ancestors. In real life culture, we know that to be unfair and complete horse shit. But it is the way the elves have lived for millenia.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

In elven culture, a child is very much responsible for the sins of his/her ancestors.

Not just elven culture. Dwarves, orcs, Uthgardt, Tuigans, many varieties of Kara-Turans... having to bear the shame of one's ancestors is a common trope in fantasy settings.

But just so you guys know it goes both ways in elven culture, not just for drow, bring up the topic of the "Crown Wars" with a Sun Elf.

See what happens.

We're aware. -.-

try bringing up the crownwars to an educated sy-tel'quessir

Anubis wrote:

"Avariel can become fighters (not rangers or paladins), mages, and clerics, as well as the multiclass combinations available to these three."

Does this mean an Avariel would never be/become a Ranger and only become one of the others, also what PRC's would an Avariel be able to take, if any?

I don't believe those are very accurate to an avariel. There are only a few classes I don't think would suit an avariel:

Arcane Archer (longbow focused): The muscles required to draw back a longbow interfere with the muscles used in flight, meaning they aren't able to both fire a longbow and fly at the same time, making the idea that an avariel would focus in this rather absurd. A shortbow has no such restrictions, however, so I see that as fine.

Dragon Disciple: Avariel hate dragons. Hate hate hate. Arguably this hatred could actually go beyond their elven hatred toward drow - the avariel never participated in the Crown Wars much. Their major war was against the dragons instead, which they paid dearly for.

Palemaster: Fairly obvious here.

I see every other class as possible. Yes, even barbarian. Some members of the avariel fighter group have been described as rather tribal and barbaric by elven standards, so it makes perfect sense for some of the more hearty ones to take up the path of an actual barbarian. As a sidenote, avariel of the fighter path follow that code of honour to the point it's mentioned the only reason they are still chaotic in alignment is because of their utter dedication to the tennants of Aerdrie Faenya.

Elven paladins are another subject entirely, mind you.

Lizzie wrote:

Suney wrote:

Aerdrie is more or less their [the avariel's] own special little goddess that only pays attention to them.

I'm not so sure about this, but, I'm late for dinner and have to stop typing now.

I should correct this with an important part I forgot:

"Avariel see Aerdrie as more or less their own special little goddess that only pays attention to them"

@Anubis: I think what you're quoting from there is originally quoted from the 2nd Edition Monstrous Manual entry for the avariel... 2nd Ed had this crazy notion of mechanical class restrictions, which was not (hooray!) carried over into 3rd Ed. Feel free to make your ranger avariel, or rogue or bard or whatever else, if you like (and can DC yourself up some wings, haha).

@Suney: Mutatis mutandis, I agree completely.

I'm guessing Avariel aren't likely to use a Tower Shield, since it'd likely hinder their flight also. What about a large shield or smaller?

Is there any info to be given on the place of 'The Snow Eagles' that I should know?

Here's a small question about requesting an Avariel too; Would I be wasting my time, or would I still have a chance of one being approved?

And thanks for the above answers!

Avariel's bones are light and hollow and they are lithe.

Realistically a tower shield might weigh more than their entire body.

Anyone got idea where I could finde more info on dogs, war hounds and similar species in FR?
And would it be possible to implement some of RL species into lore?

I'll see if I can find any, but re: RL breeds: they're usually named after locations or people, so you ought to be careful. There's no reason to assume Faerûn couldn't have very similar breeds with their own local names, though. You know, Calishite Silkpaw or something. Use your imagination.

Edit: These Candlekeep topics should help you and maybe point you to more information:
Dogs in the realms
Canine monsters of the Realms

Anubis wrote:

I'm guessing Avariel aren't likely to use a Tower Shield, since it'd likely hinder their flight also. What about a large shield or smaller?

Is there any info to be given on the place of 'The Snow Eagles' that I should know?

Here's a small question about requesting an Avariel too; Would I be wasting my time, or would I still have a chance of one being approved?

And Avariel have pale white skin, too right, like porcelain? I'm sure I read it somewhere, I just can't remember where!

1) Most of their stuff is made from glass or gemstone and enchanted with the spell Glassteel to make it both strong and lightweight. If it's heavy, it's useless to them. Large shields are a bit better, though it depends on the material.

2) You should be able to find everything you need by Googling the location.

3) Secret.

4) In general, yes, though it can vary just like their plumage patterns and colour. Their plumage pattern is actually hereditary and quite a source of pride for them, since it signifies their lineage.

FR wiki says they have pale skin, often like porcelain. I'm unsure if that changed from 3e to 4e...or if it's always been that way.

It's always been that way, yup.

Thanks! You've been a massive help, I think I have enough info to start a Bio and a request now.

Though two more questions, would something to be enchanted by the Glassteel spell need approval also?

And also:

Are Plumage patterns the pattern on the Avariel's wings or something?

I would see the Glassteel thing being similar to the Ironwood thing for druids, in that druids walking about in full plate saying it's treated ironwood are going to be smacked for it. This might be a matter of opinion, I suppose. The only Glassteel item my PC possesses is her sword, and that came from a DC request either way.

By plumage I refer to the patterns and colours of the feathers, and how they're arranged. For instance, my PC's plumage is based off a brown shrike, whereas Mahtan's is based off an eagle. You can do some cool things with the tattoo-colour wings!

Could the monk with perfect self feat be scried on?
He has immunity to all mind spells, does it go for scrying aswell?

Dead wrote:

Could the monk with perfect self feat be scried on?
He has immunity to all mind spells, does it go for scrying aswell?

Nope.

See: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scrying.htm

Note, no 'Mind Affecting' descriptor. ICly, Scrying does not affect the mind. It works off of entirely different concepts.

I have a question regarding summons....

Will I always summon the same individual when I cast a summoning spell or do I summon different individuals of the kind each time?

And also, if it is always the same individual... can I feed it? <.<

And what would feeding do to a Yugoloth?.... will it grow fat and big?

For the Summon Creature spells, I would guess that you're summoning the same being to your service unless they are killed. This is for arcane casters. Druids most likely conjure the nearest animal and use Animal Empathy to command them. Clerics are tricky... technically, they're supposed to have summons based on their patron deity, but we don't support that on Amia currently. (Except for Planar Ally!)

Planar Binding spells, however, could vary. Especially the case for Yugoloths, Planar Bindings are essentially the summoning of mercenaries. You summon a planar being, and ask for a service. The type of service will result in a varying price. If you're happy with the being you've summoned, you can perhaps arrange a long-term contract. (This moreso applies with Devils, Some Celestials, and Yugoloths; but other beings such as Slaadi and Demons could work longer if the price is right). If you're unhappy the with the service, or your partner feels that working for you isn't worth the pay, you move on to another planar being.

Now, I see the 'mercenary' aspect of Planar Binding through looking through the fiendish planars. Celestials will most likely work for free if the cause is just. Slaadi... not too sure. They might work for a shiney rock or the chance to cause some chaos.

As for feeding Yugoloths... if they're anything like other fiends, feeding them will have no effect. They shouldn't have stomachs or digestive tracks, so they would eat only for the joy of eating. (Don't ask where it all goes, because no one has ANY idea)

I see... can the size of derghaloths vary or are they all identical?

I understand that there are no mortal beings who's appearance depend on biological prerequesites... yet I wonder if all of them look the same or if there can be differences.

The longer a fiend exists in their current 'rank', they become more powerful with experience. That's usually represented in an increase in size for the melee-inclined and monstrous varieties. This also applies to other monstrous planars... like Slaadi.

regarding paladins last comment: druids can wear full plate if they want, its only metal thats against nature or somesuch. Though I won't go into it in detail here I have seen many interesting takes on the idea, for example crystal plate mail. (on a non lore note if this is -really- a problem make some non metal full plates and put some -AC on there or something.)

ed: I suppose it would be best to clarify what can and can't be used as full plate materials >_> working on that.

It's not "metals against nature", it's just true to fact that druids tend to promote the natural vs technology. Technology in this case being metalworking, smelting, etc etc. Also the fact that most nature-based peoples often do not have access to large quantities of metal.

forgive me if i'm wrong, and I do agree that the technology thing is accurate, but specifically metal except for the druid weapons sickle and dagger, break a druids connection to the divine, I remember reading this in the class specific info's over at lore and rules, though I can't find it now >_>

however I will use the players handbook 3.5 to explain

"Druids are proficient with light and medium armor but are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may wear only padded, leather or hide armor. (a druid may also wear wooden armor that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel. [see descript page 246]) druids are proficient with shields (except tower shields [apparently]) but must use only wooden ones.

a druid who wears prohibited armor or carries a prohibited shield is unable to cast druid spells or use and of her supernatural/spell-like abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter"

so to clarify, I agree that technology over nature and nessecity over endulgence is the druid way BUT metal is specifically noted in the PH =)

There is no non-metal full plate in the module, hence a druid can't wear a full plate and claim that they are. If you read my post, that's exactly what my point was...

PaladinOfSune wrote:

There is no non-metal full plate in the module, hence a druid can't wear a full plate and claim that they are. If you read my post, that's exactly what my point was...

I could have sworn that my Armorsmith character was able to make ironwood full plate.

why does everyone assume I don't read? -_-

I only have two comments on that, there should be, and armoursmiths can improvise.

or, just give up trying to hit the middle line and take the hit since this is a shifter problem really, its why most druids end up with full plate is for shifter forms. which can't be used if its metal because of the loss of supernatural abilities.

I wouldn't argue the fact except for its already been done, by many well known people who I won't mention by name because I feel it would be wrong to do so.

ed: ie non metal plate armor, -with- RP and armoursmithery to back it up. if thats bad play then well damn.

Lizzie wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

There is no non-metal full plate in the module, hence a druid can't wear a full plate and claim that they are. If you read my post, that's exactly what my point was...

I could have sworn that my Armorsmith character was able to make ironwood full plate.

It's a glitch/typo/miswording if so. You can only make things out of ironwood that could normally be made out of wood. You can have an ironwood club, and ironwood staff, and ironwood bow just fine. But not things that are made mostly or completely out of metal, like a greatsword or fullpate.

Last edited by Glyph on Mon, Mar 14 2011, 20:42 PM, edited 1 time in total.

*has been making ironwood swords since the job system was up and running.*

also yes ironwood armour is there as an option. armoursmith helps to build anything between +AC3 and 8, where as other jobs account for leather and zero AC ones.

ed: before y'all go loopy at me, you can make wooden swords, I have done so irl. I don't agree on the not making stuff from ironwood just yet, this is the first im hearing of this sort of lore argument.

(though an ironwood whip for obvious reasons would incline a raised brow from my direction.)

ed: upon researching what full plate actually is in esscence I don't see why creating interlocking plates of ironwood, wood that is hard as steel, would be impossible. of course this is more of a mechanical debate, and I would not be against some sort of AC reduction for ironwood armour to appease everyone.

I very strongly suspect that that's not the case, Dark... An Armorsmith or Weaponsmith can craft a whole range of items out of ironwood. Too many different items for them all to be glitches or typos. Just off the top of my head, I recall making ironwood versions of chainmail, scimitars, full plate, daggers, and helms.

Hmm. After looking into it some more, I think I'm confusing Ironwood with Darkwood.

But now it makes even less sense. Ironwood is a Druid's spell that actually does allow you to fashion things from wood that one would normally make from steel. I'm guessing there are just trees around Amia what druids have casted Ironwood on randomly. :/

An ironwood fullplate still would look stupid as hell.

The druid armor stuff has never been enforced in any case. It was iffy, but you could always pretend your armor was something druid-approved, AFAIK. (There's no written rule about it and I don't remember an official precedent.) This may change at any time, of course. I may remember wrong, but I'm fairly sure we also have dragon scale armor in some high-end lootbin.

From what I've found, there's only one full-plate armor that Druids would be able to wear that they can buy on the module. I could be wrong though, I don't play full-plate armor wearing Druids.

can somone send a link to a good site detailing the mulan subrace. Googling seems not to work for me, and all i have is a vauge picture.

Unapproachable East has information about the Mulan.

So does Old Empires of Faerun, Lost Empires of Faerun, Powers and Pantheons and Faiths and Pantheons.

I need some detailed info on Aasimars, Celestials and Solars specifically... someone point me at the book?

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