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Monk 20/Rogue 10 is nasty with Epic Dodge. I have a build made out for one I will make sometime for kicks.

Monk 30 with 3x Improved SR for 46 SR is nasty, too

epic dodge and self conceal, or in this case empty body, in combination are night on impossible to hit, means the attacker must hit you twice, with at least 25% fail chance on each (50% without blind fight)

don't forget sneaks don't stack with crit multipliers, but I have to agree monk/fighter/rogue, or just monk rogue sounds tasty. one of the best combos I know of is monk/assassin/sd 10 each, for obvious reasons. each to his own however, not to mention rp spice.

It's hard to get a Kobold to do dps well, but here is where I am going with Qeelak's monk build. The fighting style being centered around a Kobold's perspective, on wyverns.

Classes: monk 16/fighter 4/rogue 10
Stats:
As of lvl 18:
STR: 8
DEX: 22
CON: 12
INT: 12
WIS: 14
CHA: 10

As you can see with the stats, he is a dex build that ends with taking Epic Dodge and can dish a significant amount of attacks/ sneak based damage in PvM.

Know what,the 20 monk/10 rogue mentioned makes me want too make a Brawler analoge...I can see a Dwarf Patrick Swayze type ala "Roadhouse" being a bouncer,drifting from town too town trying too find himself or something worthwhile to belive in.

Shield Dwarf
Str based

Hmm,can you craft kamas into cestus types?..or just gloves?
and if only they did a dwarf head with shades!

20 monk/4 fighter/6 CoT. Wear full plate armor and use a shield, fighting with monk gauntlets. You get all the monk boosts minus ac and speed so you're at tumbetank AC, you get full fist damage. You have to deal with the glowing eyes though so it may be more ideal to stop at like 16 or 18 monk and do more CoT.

You look stupid fighting with a shield and no weapon, though.

Do you really get full fist damage in armour? It shows d3 on my character sheet. But I know thats not always entirely accurate.

apparently this

Quote:

A monk's UBAB, armor class bonuses (from wisdom and every 5 levels), and speed are all negated when the monk wears armor other than clothing or uses a shield.

A question about great smite concerning aasimars:

Great smiting specifics: Whenever the character makes a successful smite attack, it adds two times the character's level to damage.

So aasimar ecl 29 means:
1) 2 x 29 = 58
or 2) 2 x 30 = 60 ?

It's character level, not effective character level. You'll use the 29 figure.

Smite is based on Class Level. Total of Paladin/Blackguard+Divine Champion levels.

i think I may go with the STR build. It seems the ebst choice in terms of keeping the character who he is.

According to NWNWIKI:
Example: A character who is a wizard 4 / fighter 3 / rogue 2 has a character level of 4 + 3 + 2 = 9.

Another observation:

Doesn't look weird the fact that a human can deliver more damage then an Aasimar on Great smite thing ? I might be silly on that observation but take a time to think.

Irrelevant. Correct but Irrelevant.

Class level matters for a Smiter, not character level. That character does not have any Smite feats.

An Aasimar 29Paladin with ECL30 smites at 2x29.

A 23Paladin/4CoT/2Rogue smites at 2x27.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Character_level

Character level

A player's character level is the sum of the levels for all classes that they have taken at least 1 level in. This is the equivalent of hit dice for monsters.
Example: A character who is a wizard 4 / fighter 3 / rogue 2 has a character level of 4 + 3 + 2 = 9.

So, in my case: Paladin 23/ Cot5/Rg1 = 29

Smite Evil

Cloak's right. You will ignore any non-Paladin/CoT for it. It's -CLASS- level, not -CHARACTER- level.

That character will do 2x(23+5) extra damage on a successful smite evil attack. Character level is irrelevant. ECL is irrelevant.

Smite Evil = is related to class level
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Smite_evil

Great smiting = is related to character's level
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Great_smiting

It's all in there.

alamut wrote:

Great smiting = is related to character's level
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Great_smiting

NWNWiki wrote:

This feat's description says "character level", but it is in fact the sum of champion of Torm and paladin class levels that is used for smite evil, and blackguard class level for smite good.

Naivatkal wrote:

alamut wrote:

Great smiting = is related to character's level
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Great_smiting

NWNWiki wrote:

This feat's description says "character level", but it is in fact the sum of champion of Torm and paladin class levels that is used for smite evil, and blackguard class level for smite good.

*Face palm* Thanks ! But again, that makes a human better then an Aasimar.

I get the feeling a fighter/CoT/BG combo would work well for smite good with the new divine champion stuff, it seams evil would lose a few levels in comparison to say a pure paladin where the damage totals add up here, but with great smite 5? (is the most you can get with 30 levels?) its still absurd damage.

?'s are because I feel its around that area from previous tests, though i've never been too fond of smite so im not certain.

You can theoretically have a level of 23 for smiting once Divine Champion kicks in. The problem is you're giving up way too much for Great Smiting V just to sometimes hit a good character for around 150 damage, and the sheer trade-off is probably not even worth it unless you plan to be a dedicated good guy killer in an environment where alignment is hazy unless you see them summon a celestial avenger.

Given the sheer utility a paladin/cleric/good guy is likely to be wielding against you, hoping you can chain 3 Great Smiting crits to kill him/her before he simply drinks a heal potion is a bit silly. Good luck on doing something other than looking pretty for the rest of the fighting.

Uberuce wrote:

You look stupid fighting with a shield and no weapon, though.

True that. It's still funny though.

Lol. Defeats the whole purpose of a monk. Well, Monk 23/6ftr/1rog looks good

18Str
14Dex
10Con
12Int
14Wis
8Cha

Ya?

Well, on a human I make that 36 points at start and you only get 30.

Perverse as it sounds, Earth Genasi look like excellent STR-Monks to me; the WIS penalty is bad, I admit, but lore-wise the subrace just screams 'Monk' and the downsides of Outsider-ness are negated to a pretty large extent by the SR.

Kind of wish I had made my DEX Monk a dualwielding kama Monk15/Fighter5/Rogue10 for a more reliant damage output, but I suppose the fiery fists makes up for that a bit.

Sin4given, there's no point in stopping at Monk23. 20, 21, 25, or 30 are good. I'd do the Monk21/Fighter6/Rogue3 thing Uce recommended.

It shall be done.

Pre Epic 16monk/4ftr

Epic- 5monk/2ftr/3rog?

That's the bunny.

20 monk or no monk! You gotta get those fancy glowing eyes and the mind Immunity - it's soooo looovely!

I'm going STR monk too, so as for statwise, how would I invest it? I'm thinking 18 STR but I feel as if I might gimp the others.

I could go 17 and end up at 26?

Sin4given wrote:

I'm going STR monk too, so as for statwise, how would I invest it? I'm thinking 18 STR but I feel as if I might gimp the others.

I could go 17 and end up at 26?

Afaik you can 'probably' soon keen gloves, so i say aim for dev.

It's what I was going for. Dev crit, 6 attacks, um.. let me calculate the AB quickly >_<

Sin4given wrote:

It's what I was going for. Dev crit, 6 attacks, um.. let me calculate the AB quickly >_<

21 bab epic + 3 ewf + 14str modifier + 6 ab gloves + 1 epic prowess = 45 + bles/aid =47.

I calculated 21 BaB and +6 AB gloves are hard to come by.

Then again, that'd be the same AB as you posted. Is that good for a monk, though?

Lol, edited

Sin4given wrote:

I calculated 21 BaB and +6 AB gloves are hard to come by.

Then again, that'd be the same AB as you posted. Is that good for a monk, though?

Its ok! Not in line with a wm or cleric, but good for a monk

Not sure where you'll have room for Epic Prowess if you're going Dev; That's two epic feats, and the other two are presumably Epic WF and Armourskin, with Ftr6 reserved for Epic WS.

You might have to go Monk16/Ftr1/CoT3 into Monk20/Ftr4/CoT6 if you want Dev outside of STR subraces. The threat range on unarmed Dev is sad panda, but at least you get the three round/turn duration.

I

Advice, people!

I'm pondering a build a lot like the stereotypical cheesy strength-built Ftr 12 / WM 16 / Rogue 2, except that she's not a human and her weapon will be an exotic weapon. This leaves her a couple of feats short, so something has to go. Which set of feats would I be better off with?

1.)
Knockdown
Improved Knockdown
Skill Focus Discipline (or some other useful pre-epic feat)
Great Str 2
Great Str 3

or...

2.)
Powerattack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Epic Skill Focus Discipline
Overwhelming Critical

That's a tough choice but I think knockdown is far more important that cleave and overwhelming crit. Plus option one nets another dmg and ab.

Could be wrong, though, and knowing the rest of the build would help

pfft, Weaponmasters put things down so fast the choice is a toss up. I'd personally go with option 2. There is the KD ring if you absolutely must have it...

Is there no dev crit? Which exotic weapon will you be wielding??

The rest of the build is fairly vanilla, WM prerequisites and some non-negotiable staples. The full plan is either:

1: Fighter 1: Exotic Proficiency, Weapon Focus Dwarven Waraxe
2: Fighter 2: Dodge
3: Fighter 3: Mobility
4: Fighter 4: Spring Attack
5: Fighter 5
6: Fighter 6: Expertise, Whirlwind Attack, +4 Intimidate
7: WM 1
8: WM 2
9: WM 3: Improved Critical Dwarven Waraxe
10: WM 4
11: WM 5
12: WM 6: Blind-Fight
13: WM 7
14: Fighter 7
15: Fighter 8: Weapon Specialization Dwarven Waraxe, Knockdown
16: Fighter 9
17: Fighter 10: Improved Knockdown
18: Fighter 11: Skill Focus Discipline
19: WM 8
20: WM 9
21: Fighter 12: Epic Weapon Focus Dwarven Waraxe, Epic Weapon Specialization Dwarven Waraxe
22: WM 10
23: WM 11
24: WM 12: Great Str 1
25: WM 13: Epic Prowess
26: WM 14
27 WM 15: Great Str 2
28 Rogue 1: UMD and Tumble
29 Rogue 2
30 WM 16: Armor Skin, Great Str 3

or...

(same first 14 levels)
15: Fighter 8: Weapon Specialization Dwarven Waraxe, Powerattack
16: Fighter 9
17: Fighter 10: Cleave
18: Fighter 11: Great Cleave
19: WM 8
20: WM 9
21: Fighter 12: Epic Weapon Focus Dwarven Waraxe, Epic Weapon Specialization Dwarven Waraxe
22: WM 10
23: WM 11
24: WM 12: Great Str 1
25: WM 13: Epic Prowess
26: WM 14
27 WM 15: Epic Skill Focus Discipline
28 Rogue 1: UMD and Tumble
29 Rogue 2
30 WM 16: Armor Skin, Overwhelming Critical

Uberuce wrote:

Not sure where you'll have room for Epic Prowess if you're going Dev; That's two epic feats, and the other two are presumably Epic WF and Armourskin, with Ftr6 reserved for Epic WS.

You might have to go Monk16/Ftr1/CoT3 into Monk20/Ftr4/CoT6 if you want Dev outside of STR subraces. The threat range on unarmed Dev is sad panda, but at least you get the three round/turn duration.I

Maybe no Dev then.. but then it seems a sort of waste to go STR route.

Lizzie wrote:

<snip>

Don't take Skill Focus: Discipline, it's a waste.

Pre-epic feats should be: Exotic, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specliasation, Blind-Fight, Improved Critical, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Dodge, Mobility, Expertise, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack.

Epic feats should be: Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialisation, Great STR I, Epic Prowess, Armor Skin, Overwhelming Critical, Devestating Critical.

I very, very heavily suggest you start with 18 STR so you can pick up Dev.

Also, you should go 10 Fighter/10 WM pre-epic, not 11 Fighter/9 WM. It gives better saves.

Last edited by Sin4given on Sat, Aug 13 2011, 22:44 PM, edited 1 time in total.

After much thought I'd like to try the 20monk/10rog DEX route, Moon Elf

I'm thinking.. 12 STR/18Dex/10Con/12Int/8Cha/14Wis

I hope that's right but yes.

Pre epic- 16monk/4rog

Epic- 4 monk/6 rog

Epic Dodge, Defensive Roll, Corner sneak, Fist

I'd pump Dex up to 26 to be safe

----------

It seems like a sturdy build having a decent sneak of .. 5d6, and IKD always helps. Epic dodge is always fun, too.And if I recall, the AC will be high as well. The AB won't be so bad..

EDIT- Argh.. I hate decisions

That build does not get Crippling Strike. But the rest is fine.

Crippling strike at lvl 10 rogue.

No, you take Defensive Roll at 10 Rogue for Epic Dodge.

What if I went 16monk/4ftr/10rog? I'd be able to net EWS and EWF. Not to mention have epic dodge?

Quote:

What if I went 16monk/4ftr/10rog? I'd be able to net EWS and EWF. Not to mention have epic dodge?

The big draw for Monk20 is the mind-effect immunity; if you're willing to lose that, then you might as well go down to Monk10 and do Rogue15/Monk10/Ftr5; the ~5.5 damage/hit you lose from fists is more than made up for by the extra attack/round and 3d6 Sneaks. Crippling Strike, too. Rogue16/Monk9 works too, if you get a better trade from Monk10's 1AC versus Rogue16's bonus feat.

If I had my time again with my Monk I'd be tempted to go Monk20/SD5/Ftr5 to make him better at toe-to-toe attrition matches. There's two schools of thought for DEXy people; you either come out of stealth with a billion Sneak Attacks and the fight's over in one round, or you stand and whittle the other chap down over time.

How come inflict minor wounds does only 1dmg where as cure minor heals 4hp. Inflict minor should do 4dmg!

Uberuce wrote:

Quote:

What if I went 16monk/4ftr/10rog? I'd be able to net EWS and EWF. Not to mention have epic dodge?

The big draw for Monk20 is the mind-effect immunity; if you're willing to lose that, then you might as well go down to Monk10 and do Rogue15/Monk10/Ftr5; the ~5.5 damage/hit you lose from fists is more than made up for by the extra attack/round and 3d6 Sneaks. Crippling Strike, too. Rogue16/Monk9 works too, if you get a better trade from Monk10's 1AC versus Rogue16's bonus feat.

If I had my time again with my Monk I'd be tempted to go Monk20/SD5/Ftr5 to make him better at toe-to-toe attrition matches. There's two schools of thought for DEXy people; you either come out of stealth with a billion Sneak Attacks and the fight's over in one round, or you stand and whittle the other chap down over time.

That does sound nice but I was wanting a majority of Monk lvls, lol.

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