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Sorcerers also inherit their arcane abilities and spend less time training on it than Wizards because it comes naturally to them, but Wizards are cooler RPwise.

Uberuce wrote:

Aeqvinox: there's no pressure to stay in Light armour for a STR-based Ranger10, especially a handaxer; there's two with Ambi+TWF as bonus feats on them, and there's gloves too. The Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat that Rangers get at 9th level doesn't care about armour, so with the two feats in place artificially, you're golden.

Well there you go then, even better. The thing is that i come from a server where there was no bonus feats on items, hence the assumption of light armor only. Old habits

There is something pretty cool about a guy who looks like he could be your great-granddad toting a magical staff and casting spells. Not to mention he looks really good in white.

Plus, wizards get a nifty bunch of bonus feats.

The advantage a Sorceror has is being able to use metamagic spells without preparation. So they can try far more times to disable their enemies than a wizard, and they can continually replace fallen summons. They can also spam direct-damage spells over and over but eventually it leaves them unable to do the previous two things, which leaves them dangerously vulnerable, whereas a wizard always has something left up his sleeve, even if it's just an invisibility spell.

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:

Quote:

I have to ask, given my lack of making them - just what's the inherit purpose/advantage of being a sorcerer instead of a wizard, aside from flexible cast tiers with a limited selection of spells.

sorcerers look better and do it better and without all the fuss of spending all day reading a book...

Yeah, who wants to be able to customize spells or get more slots? Pssssht. Losers. XD

Wizzies rock. Seriously. All the magic AND insane amounts of skillpoints? Yesplz.

Hello thar,

Here's my latest creation that i'm about to summon into the world of Amia.

The idea behind this build is to have a versatile all-round crafter, not focused on being epic in anything, but being able to do everything. Cleric and Bard give him the widest selection of buffs and other useful spells that he can make potions and wands of; a Wizard wouldn't bring a lot of spells that these two don't have [only True Strike, Shield, Death Armor, Lesser Spell Breach], except offensive spells - but i'm not interested in making wands with those.

Other than that, i've thrown in 4 CoT levels pre-epic to boost the saves that little bit, get 4 APR and 2 bonus feats. Also two divine feats, because i'm a sucker for those *shrugs*.

He's obviously going to have all the buffs, protections and removes that a party needs, and that's how i want to play him.

Now, the downsides are obvious:
- no reliable melee power [all the buffs in the world might help]
- no strong spellcasting [GSF and ESF in evocation might help]
- easily dispellable
- gains power slowly
- messy playstyle; fully buffing might take ages, and most probably i'll run out of quickslots

But, i like challenges

____________________________
Mulan, NG
Cleric15/Bard11/CoT4
Plant, Good: Osiris

STR 14
DEX 7
CON 14
WIS 15 [22]
INT 14
CHA 14

01: -Cleric(01): SF:Evocation, Extend
02: Cleric(02):
03: Cleric(03): Brew Potion
04: Cleric(04): WIS+1
05: -Cleric(05):
06: Cleric(06): Craft Wand
07: -Bard(01):
08: Bard(02): WIS+1
09: +Bard(03): GSF:Evocation
10: Bard(04):
11: -Bard(05):
12: Bard(06): WF: Quarterstaff/Morningstar/Spear, WIS+1
13: CoT(01):
14: CoT(02): Power Attack
15: +Cleric(07): DShield
16: Bard(07): WIS+1
17: Bard(08):
18: Cleric(08): DMight
19: CoT(03):
20: +CoT(04): *, WIS+1
21: Cleric(09): #EWF
22: Bard(09):
23: Bard(10):
24: Cleric(10): #ESkill, WIS+1
25: Cleric(11):
26: Cleric(12):
27: Bard(11): #ESkill
28: Cleric(13): WIS+1
29: Cleric(14):
30: Cleric(15): #ESF:Evo

*CoT feat: Imp.Crit./Cleave/KD/CalledShot/Disarm/BlindFight
#to be determined when i get there i suppose

Skills 192:
Tumble 30, Craft Weapon/Armor 60, Spellcraft 30, Discipline 30, Concentration 32 and Perform 10
BAB 21
HP 256
fort 21
ref 17
will 28
____________________________

That's that.
I'll appreciate any questions, ideas and suggestions.

Its going to suck.

You'd be better of going
20 BARD 10 Cleric
or 20 Bard 1 Fighter 9 Cleric.

MoshingChris wrote:

Its going to suck.

It's going to rock

That's him btw, hence 7 DEX.

Doesn't even make sense for an Osirant Multi-class cleric to take Bard. Thats all I say.

MoshingChris wrote:

Doesn't even make sense for an Osirant Multi-class cleric to take Bard. Thats all I say.

Does bard make sense for any Mulan char? Serious question, cause I can't think of any roles they would slot into.

Yes they do Hathor is the god of folk-music and dance.

Also not all bards are singers. There is many ways to interpret perform skill.

A bard can be a scribe or any such thing. A diplomat, politician (not of cleric status, but regular beaurocratic type), etc.

Naivatkal wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Doesn't even make sense for an Osirant Multi-class cleric to take Bard. Thats all I say.

Does bard make sense for any Mulan char? Serious question, cause I can't think of any roles they would slot into.

Bards are definetly part of Mulan society. You can almost consider a scribe a form of Bard, though the spellcasting implies that they are of the class or at least equal to a noble with two circles.

Thanks for the feedback folks, i'd appreciate if you could perhaps point me in the right direction, where i could find some more info on Mulan society in general, as i am a newb to Faerun and have only found little bits of info.

As for the build itself, as i said - it's not about power but crafting and versatility. And yet still, at some point, he's going to get quite scary PvE i forsee, although i would say he's going to be more of a sprinter than a long distance runner.

See my PM about mulan lore, but mulan cleric/bard does not make much sense, Mosh is right. my advice is to take at least 21 levels of cleric. The classic 25 cleric fighter 4 rogue 1 offers it self. Or the caster cleric 28 / dumpclasses. You can be a crafty character without having a gimped character on purpose.

I like it.

Go with lesser WIS. Put all your points into STR and you're good to go; you don't really need WIS beyond the extent of your casting abilities. 18 is sufficient. Your casting will be feeble either way.

Do not bother with taking any spell focus. You're best off spending those precious feats into more melee-oriented babies. My choice of feats would be Extend, Maximise, Brew, WF, Power attack, D. Shield, D. Might, Improved Critical, Blindfight, and KD.

Craft Weapon/Armour is plain silly, because you can easily reach adequate scores in both by gearing. Take Spellcraft 33 (+2 INT, adds up to +7 in saves), Tumble 30, Discipline 33, Concentration 33, Perform 16, UMD 30 (for example), and rest in Taunt or Heal. Or somewhere you like.

If you really feel uncomfortable with going with more STR on an older gentleman, I don't think sling and shield would be too bad an idea. Replace KD with Zen Archery. There's a particular item to help you get PBS and Rapid shot, designed for gimmicky builds like yours.

EDIT: I don't know much about Mulan lore, but your initial idea is far more exciting than the mainstream fodder Hendrack is feeding you. Meta-ironic hipterism is hip.

My hipsterism died along with the barely functional gimmicky builds after the cleric changes.

That's because the DMs are so mainstream. On the server I leave mysteriously unidentified they were better. It was a microserver. People got me - it was shut down, because it was too underground. Here they see only the tip of the iceberg, barely even scratching the surface. So narrowminded, such a macroserver. They can never reach what we have reached.

You're too rad for Amia, I knew it.

While on the subject - craft feats for a cleric, how much use do you really have with them?
Aint many scrolls and.potions you cannot allready buy, i mean.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

That's because the DMs are so mainstream. On the server I leave mysteriously unidentified they were better. It was a microserver. People got me - it was shut down, because it was too underground. Here they see only the tip of the iceberg, barely even scratching the surface. So narrowminded, such a macroserver. They can never reach what we have reached.

Dude for the last fucking time, my front lawn is not a forgotten realms server, and I will not make out with you even if you are LARPING as the princess (Insert obscure Russian made Anime-clone reference).

For what I guess Aeqvinox has in mind, it's not how much use the crafter gets, it's the customer. Divine Power, GS and Greater Restore scrolls, Divine Favour and Prayer potions/wands, omnomnom. Deathward wands are your bread and butter, mind.

Also, the caster level on ability buffs, Clairaudience* and Negative Energy Protection is a shiny 15.

*Knowledge domain for that, admittedly.

Can't remember if you/we removed GS / Greater Resto and Ressurection scrolls from the various shops around the server. But if they've been removed, I'd totally grab that.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Can't remember if you/we removed GS / Greater Resto and Ressurection scrolls from the various shops around the server. But if they've been removed, I'd totally grab that.

I know you can get Greater Restoration in Cordor still. Have not seen Resurrection or Greater Stoneskin.

I'm thinking of making a "Spartan" style warrior that uses Trident and sword for their main weapons.

Tower shield, full plate (looks like just the heavy breast plate).

Fighter/Rogue/WM

Rogue because they fought "dirty", Fighter and WM self explanatory.

Not overly in love with Rogue so if you want to switch it out for something better that is fine.

Any suggestions for race, abilities...etc?

12 Fighter/16 WM/2 Rogue (both Rogue taken in epic)

Human

18 STR
13 DEX
12 CON
08 WIS
13 INT
08 CHA

Can't go wrong.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

12 Fighter/16 WM/2 Rogue (both Rogue taken in epic)

Human

18 STR
13 DEX
12 CON
08 WIS
13 INT
08 CHA

Can't go wrong.

Thanks...

Any subrace or specific idea on feats? Also, why 16 WM rather then 3 rogue and 20 fighter?

Quote:

Any subrace or specific idea on feats? Also, why 16 WM rather then 3 rogue and 20 fighter?

You can only really take so many bonus feats from fighter before it's pointless. More AB really trumps the extra 1d6 sneak attack from rogue, since your damage output is already stupidly high and landing hits is more important. 13 WM is when you can pick a second weapon of choice and get an extra AB, and 16 WM is a bonus feat/third weapon and another extra AB.

As for subraces, etc., the most likely candidates still fall on humans, half-orcs, hobgoblins, and probably orogs for this sort of thing. It's got a mercenary/gladiator feel to it, and I don't see elves pulling it off (doesn't mean I won't try...).

As for feats, just map it out ahead of time - if you aren't in a hurry to get to WM, use some of your normal feats while taking fighter levels on things like Great Fortitude, Initiative, Luck of Heroes, etc.

A human can get away with any subrace on it. Go with what you want to RP as.

Subrace? No. Chessenta is a good background for that sort of character. See Old Empires. It's basically Greece. But there is no Chessentan subrace - although Mulan is close, geography wise, and that subrace represents the people of several surrounding lands, such as Unther and Thay, as well as the Mulhorandi.

Go with base human. Even if there is something 'close', you will just look like a stat whore going with a subrace lol

Plus, no subrace means you can actually be from that region.

By the way, you'll enjoy the new armor options the hak is introducing for this character in particular.

Thanks for all the input....time to get out the pencil and paper I think and start building up...

Will have to put some thoughts into this one...one question though, have not seen any good tridents at all...was told there might be one in Tarkuul...but its higher level.

Are there some lower level ones like the other weapons (long sword, axe..etc) I have found? Just not getting lucky?

Lower level I mean +1 or +2 enchant, d4 or d6 elemental damage...nothing to extreme...level 10 or below stuff.

Won't effect the weapon choice for me simply because RP trumps things as I learn the lay of the land here.

And I have had some wonderful (though deathly at times) RP here.

Query: If you take a Genasi subrace with half-elf, are you still considered to be a half-elf for meeting qualifying restrictions?

Example: Air Genasi Half-Elf Arcane Archer.

Thanks in advance.

Taking Air Genasi with any base race will change your race to outsider, in short; No.

Or, at least, that is how it is supposed to work...

That's correct.

Looking over a WM build, using a Two-Bladed sword would it be better to have 15 Dexterity and have Two weapon fighting, ambidextrity and improved Two weapon fighting? Or the basic 13 Dexterity and have only two weapon fighting?

*This is going off a basic F10/WM18/R1 build with a +1 ECL.

It's 12 Fighter/16 WM/1 Rogue, actually.

18 WM gains nothing.

Yes, you want 15 Dexterity. There's not really much point in dual-wielding if you don't have both Ambidexterity and TWF, your AB is terrible.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

It's 12 Fighter/16 WM/1 Rogue, actually.

18 WM gains nothing.

Yes, you want 15 Dexterity. There's not really much point in dual-wielding if you don't have both Ambidexterity and TWF, your AB is terrible.

Well, uh, that's your opinion - My Weaponmaster uses a certain pair of gloves when there's a mage in the party and dual-wields his scimitars (It's horrible, yes, but quite effective since his AB is quite high allready). So i think there's a point dual-wielding

Hi guys, just wanted to confirm ; is divine power (the spell) on Amia working as per vanilla spell or was it nerfed?

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=56068

As it says there, nerfed. Should be that way in-game, unless my cleric has been getting an extra attack all along while I didn't even know it.

BlackestAtrocity wrote:

Assassin..

** This is considering the Additions to the next HAK **

10 Ranger / 20 Assassin
Human : Chultan

Stats / Final (Chultan Starting Stats considered) :

10
19 -> 24 (+1 Great Dex : 25)
10
11
16 -> 18
6
-------------

Ranger 1-9, Assassin 10-19, Ranger 20, Assassin 21-30

Feats : Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse, Imp Crit, Knockdown, Imp Knockdown, Dodge, Blind Fight, Great Fort

Epic Feats : Epic Weapon Focus, Armor Skin, Great Dex 1, Epic Dodge
Bonus Assassin Epic : Improved Evasion, Defensive Roll

Thoughts?

My own thoughts : Is Armor skin a better addition than ESF : Hide for a stealth based character?

(If anything in this is wrong mechanically, please let me know)

If you go with Air Genasi and the stat distribution listed above, your starting INT would be 18...allowing you to get your DEX to 26 (all level-ups to DEX) AND you could drop Great Dex I for ESF: Hide, or Epic Prowess, or whatever you like.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Subrace? No. Chessenta is a good background for that sort of character. See Old Empires. It's basically Greece. But there is no Chessentan subrace - although Mulan is close, geography wise, and that subrace represents the people of several surrounding lands, such as Unther and Thay, as well as the Mulhorandi.

Chessentans are, generally speaking, of Mulan ethnicity more than other human ethnicities. Mulan is fine for any of the human races around the Alambar sea.

MoshingChris wrote:

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Subrace? No. Chessenta is a good background for that sort of character. See Old Empires. It's basically Greece. But there is no Chessentan subrace - although Mulan is close, geography wise, and that subrace represents the people of several surrounding lands, such as Unther and Thay, as well as the Mulhorandi.

Chessentans are, generally speaking, of Mulan ethnicity more than other human ethnicities. Mulan is fine for any of the human races around the Alambar sea.

Got him going now...He is Mulan in background...coming along pretty well...got 4 fighter fairly quickly with the delivery quest and a few runs between the sewers, the goblin/animals and the rat ship.

He is a brute but, I am really, really enjoying him so far...found an appearance I like too...the plate doesn't really look right for a breatplate alone though but, overall, he has a gold, black and red thing going on that makes him look good.

Not much RP so far...didn't have alot of time last night and tonight is busted...my daughter is with me.

I am trying to get Cedric (my cleric of Osiris) over to Khem...not having much luck finding a guide yet...working on it.

Going to archive a couple of characters....both wizards...having too much fun with tanks, clerics and rogues right now....all have some good RP going....so its going to be hard to pick just one for a main...heh.

thanks for all the help.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

By the way, you'll enjoy the new armor options the hak is introducing for this character in particular.

...What's this? hmmmm???

Oh, just to not de-rail the topic I also had questions on a BG.

I'm thinking Bard/Bg a death singer and stuff maybe?

Very_Svensk wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

It's 12 Fighter/16 WM/1 Rogue, actually.

18 WM gains nothing.

Yes, you want 15 Dexterity. There's not really much point in dual-wielding if you don't have both Ambidexterity and TWF, your AB is terrible.

Well, uh, that's your opinion - My Weaponmaster uses a certain pair of gloves when there's a mage in the party and dual-wields his scimitars (It's horrible, yes, but quite effective since his AB is quite high allready). So i think there's a point dual-wielding

Read it again, that's not what he was asking. He asked if there was a point in just taking TWF and not Ambidexterity so he could leave his Dexterity at 13.

And relying on those gloves if you're using a weapon that can only be dual-wielded is silly.

Dual wielding is the fun way to go. Your ab will be fine as a wm, fret not.

Str: 17-26
Dex: 15
Con: 11
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

With the build Sune provided, you will have 49 ab dual-wielding (+5 weapon). Suffice to say you want epic prowess, 2x great str and grab the rogue level at 28.

AA build question: 8 wizard/2 rogue/20 AA or 8 wizard/4 fighter/18 AA? Or are both equally good?

Basically, is there any point in going higher than 4th circle spells (for Ice Storm, obviously)?

I had a friend tell me of a build he made he thought was fun...

14 Fighter - WM 16 - Assassin 10. (40 levels I know)

I thought here it might work like this...

14 Fighter - 7 WM - 9 Assassin

Thing is...you lose ALOT of skill points...because your using a ton of cross skills. You need 8 for intimidate (4x2) and 32 for the MS and Hide (8 each x 2)

It does sound pretty deadly once you get rolling though....what do people think?

Naivatkal wrote:

AA build question: 8 wizard/2 rogue/20 AA or 8 wizard/4 fighter/18 AA? Or are both equally good?

Basically, is there any point in going higher than 4th circle spells (for Ice Storm, obviously)?

The first build won't grant you four APR, which is kinda silly considering your ab will be in the 50's. The second one is a bit strange. You won't get disc, tumble or UMD. Rather nasty. The first won't get any decent amount of it either.

If you want to use ice storm, you can pick UMD and use scrolls instead? The spell wont do any real damage, the imbue feat is sort of worthless. I suppose it works on bows with unlimited arrows, which would make it ok, but once you have a few fancy arrows (which is easy to find), you'll forget about imbuing, besides, you can still imbue perfectly with scrolls.

Simeron wrote:

14 Fighter - 7 WM - 9 Assassin

Thing is...you lose ALOT of skill points...because your using a ton of cross skills. You need 8 for intimidate (4x2) and 32 for the MS and Hide (8 each x 2)

Assassin has flavor, and a better roster of tweaks on the server (check Classes and Feats under Modifications on the left) but Rogue ends up better in the long run, if you're taking so few levels (and you get Evasion). There's a rogue/fighter/WM on page three.

Starting off level 1 with rogue will give you more skill points as well as let you take Intimidate and forgetting about it. It all depends on what you want to do with the build, but dropping some fighter levels so you can pick up Improved Evasion is likely worth it.

Ulir wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

AA build question: 8 wizard/2 rogue/20 AA or 8 wizard/4 fighter/18 AA? Or are both equally good?

Basically, is there any point in going higher than 4th circle spells (for Ice Storm, obviously)?

The first build won't grant you four APR, which is kinda silly considering your ab will be in the 50's. The second one is a bit strange. You won't get disc, tumble or UMD. Rather nasty. The first won't get any decent amount of it either.

If you want to use ice storm, you can pick UMD and use scrolls instead? The spell wont do any real damage, the imbue feat is sort of worthless. I suppose it works on bows with unlimited arrows, which would make it ok, but once you have a few fancy arrows (which is easy to find), you'll forget about imbuing, besides, you can still imbue perfectly with scrolls.

Ah, wasn't aware scrolls would work for imbuning. And is imbuning really that worthless?

Maybe just a cheap bard/Fighter/aa then

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