today i was killed by someones familiar set to 'attack nearest' while i was hostiling people for a fight. as soon as i hostiled the familiars owner, it killed me. this i see is a problem, i didnt attack back because i was trying to hostile someone else right after them... so with out any protections i was nearly instantly killed.

i dont see this as ok. if the rules say that everyone in a pvp encounter must be hostiled before you attack them, but you are killed instantly for doing so, where does the line get drawn before it becomes abusive to let your familiar with 10d6 sneak attacks attack a flat footed toon while he is trying to observe the rules?

dm stance?

_________________
Plays-
Maggot Bucktooth (Retired)
Giando Paladrious (Retired)

Usually a nice tell to the players asking to set the summon to hold ground for hostiling does the trick. If not, either kill the owner fast or don't start hostiling with your pants down.

usually yes, but not always. and not in this case, so im sure others have had the same issue.

_________________
Plays-
Maggot Bucktooth (Retired)
Giando Paladrious (Retired)

Familiars are always generally on 'attack nearest', as well. It's pretty much default (at least for me). I wouldn't immediately assume foul play - just that the player wasn't fast enough to command their familiar to stay still (which has happened to me before).

_________________
Whatever tomorrow brings, six legs are better than two.

Judging from your last paragraph this seems more of an excuse to rant than a genuine question, actually.

If you're hostiling a PC with a bunch of summons the sensible thing to do is give them OOC heads up first. Simple as.

_________________

"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."

I'm not sure the question is about foul play (could be though)...its more of the DMs stance on how to handle summons/familiars when you are going to do a possible (or probably) PvP.

Having to switch to hostile to a group takes time and hitting the person with a summons up and then having the summons automatically attack you could be bad for the person or for the one with a summons too.

Think of this situation...I am in town and someone comes up with a familiar following. I switch to hostile because we are going to have heated words....suddenly, here comes their summon to attack me.

Now the RP has become altered...

From:

Hey, you...yeah you with the floating rat...I wanna talk with you...Rocko wants his money...(where I am the aggressor)

To:

I don't know officer. I was standing here all by myself when this.....creature...comes out of nowhere and tries to MURDER ME....and THAT is the one who commands them....I demand they be charged with attempted murder!

(where I am the victim)....

Granted, you can work around this with tells but, it also takes time to type things out and when you get to several folks...its longer. Also, its not clearly defined in the PvP guides.

Personally, the rule I follow is I keep my familiar on "guard me" and try to keep an eye when it starts moving off...normally means something is about to eat me...or try...which means it needs my attention.

In an RP situation, I try to put familiars on stand still before the RP actually begins...because with PCs, I can do an /ooc Okay, can we put our pets on stand ground...this could get nasty.


Just personal yardstick...by no means suggesting that is how it should be done.

_________________
Ya see, long time ago, me father taught me somethin that be right true.
An amateur practices until they get it right. A professional practices till they can't get it wrong.
Dwarves are professionals at what we do.

Sometimes companions (and I assume familiars too) ignore the 'stay' command though. I remember one incident when Phaetos, the Furry Wolverine of Doom, almost killed a hostiled shifter despite numerous commands to sit and growl at the ground instead. Quite an amusing situation, but still something that should be corrected maybe?

Or in clear text: using the stay command only halted it for a second before it charged the hostiled PC again. Four times.

_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

Well, in his defense he was furry wolverine of doom......

I mean, come on, that has got to be like telling Taz the Tazmanian Devil to sit once he is wound up...lol

_________________
Ya see, long time ago, me father taught me somethin that be right true.
An amateur practices until they get it right. A professional practices till they can't get it wrong.
Dwarves are professionals at what we do.

exactly, but im not ranting about what happened to me at all, im simply trying to see if there is a way we can stop this from happening. it breaks up the rp so much when bad AI determines what happens next. could there be a ruling that if your familiar breaks the hostile rule by not letting everone go hostile before the fight starts, then the owner is held liable?

_________________
Plays-
Maggot Bucktooth (Retired)
Giando Paladrious (Retired)

If that becomes a rule, there should be a stipulation that you must tell them you are hostiling first. Because otherwise people with be pricks and hostile, then use that as an excuse to PvP. Rules like that need to be made to prevent loopholes lol

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I wish people would just PM me and ask instead of making a topic. It's so much easier. If you're concerned about a rule, please...just PM a DM.

We have to read this entire forum and then some and it just makes it so much easier on us. This way, instead of creating what usually becomes an epic argument thread, your question gets answered by the folks who can answer it best.

Thanks.

_________________
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.

If someone wants to hear the other side of the story please PM me. And this is for the DM only. I do not care to gossip here in public.

_________________

I'd have to disagree with that last part. If a familiar noticed someone taking a hostile stance against his master, without a command to hold from that master(aka Hold Ground command), then it's exactly what would happen. It is what it is. Don't go hostile if you're not ready. It should be obvious IC too. Maybe you don't want to take a threatening stance towards someone when they have their pet panther already licking your heels. Even if the master does have good control over it, it should don on the PC that "hey, if I look like I'm about to hurt him, he may not have time to call him off, even if he doesn't want to fight."

_________________

This reminds me - if someone has set me to hostile and hits me with something like Prayer while buffing for what they anticipate as an oncoming fight, it's alright for me to murder them over an 'offensive spellcast' right?

_________________
Who are you. What are you. Why do you scream at me?

If you're in a hostile situation and someone starts buffing, that's enough of a go-ahead. It doesn't need to be an offensive spell. It doesn't even need to hit you.

_________________

I'd consider buffing a hostile action anyways, tbh, even if the spells don't affect you at all.

Standing and watching while the other guy turns his squishy unbuffed cleric into an avatar of war is generally a bad idea.

Unless he is on your side. *wink*

Then its...please sir...can I have some more?

_________________
Ya see, long time ago, me father taught me somethin that be right true.
An amateur practices until they get it right. A professional practices till they can't get it wrong.
Dwarves are professionals at what we do.

i think sending a tell to the owner (which is not always clear) would be fine, assuming they will set the familiar to stay while hostiling takes place. this would prevent any loopholes happening, and prevent the fun rp thats been built up for a good while being ruined due to bad AI.
to the players who were involved, this is simply a question/suggestion thread, not a "you did wrong" thread. and i think i could have done more to prevent what happened after seeing some others feedback.

also, "setting someone hostile" is not considered IC is it? it is the same as using the party widget in my eyes and thats not taken as being IC. but this has come up to me before, someone will say that because i set them hostile, my toon had made hostile actions towards them in game, which is not true especially for spells like dominate which can be rped as not explicitly hostile (though due to mechanics requires hostiling). what is the dms currents stance on this?

_________________
Plays-
Maggot Bucktooth (Retired)
Giando Paladrious (Retired)

Glowing red isn't IC but I dare you to find a single person who doesn't find your mental intrusion ripping away their free will as anything but incredibly hostile.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham