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(No dirty laundry here, just a few questions which arised during RP.)

Scenario: Player A kills Player B. Player A chops off Player B's head after the battle.

Few questions about this:
1. I was told recently that this wasn't allowed, and that only a DM could chop off someone's head. I think it was to do with permadeath or something. So the question is, are you allowed to chop off someone's head IC?

2. My understanding was that this in no way forces Player B to permadeath his character, or stop him from being raised. So the next question is, does chopping someone's head off have any effect on their ability to be raised/ressurrected?

3. Is the line *Swings axe and chops of Player B's head* considered too gory for RP on Amia?

Thankyou!

its not perma death, its so raisedeads dont work IC (AKA no geting raise in PVP if the battle lasts 5mins)

Well the general rule is to ask the player if it's okay with him to do that.
Chopping the head off doesn't mean permadeath. Only that you need a ressurection instead of a raise dead.

You don't permadie unless you wanna permadie, or unless you're in a DM event which says you could permadie. Basically, no one can force your character disappear forever.

Except me.

Decapitation is meant only for making it so a simple Raise Dead won't help the victim (Unless, I think the head is recovered and somehow re-attached but that's one I'm not certain on)

Quote:

You don't permadie unless you wanna permadie, or unless you're in a DM event which says you could permadie. Basically, no one can force your character disappear forever.

Ok so that's Q.2 answered.

In terms of 'Are you allowed to chop off someone's head', is it a rule that you need to ask them if you want to do it beforehand? Or is that a courtesy?

Also, is it considered too gory?

Moonfighter wrote:

1. I was told recently that this wasn't allowed, and that only a DM could chop off someone's head. I think it was to do with permadeath or something. So the question is, are you allowed to chop off someone's head IC?

Yes you are allowed to chop someones head off.

Moonfighter wrote:

2. My understanding was that this in no way forces Player B to permadeath his character, or stop him from being raised. So the next question is, does chopping someone's head off have any effect on their ability to be raised/ressurrected?

It sure does. It in no way means permadeath, but it does mean you need to be resurrected instead of simply raised.

Moonfighter wrote:

3. Is the line *Swings axe and chops of Player B's head* considered too gory for RP on Amia?

No, it's not. So long as you don't go on to explain how the head is being chopped off with further detail, you're fine. Keep the gorey bits to as plain as you can and you're fine. "Chops head off," breaks finger," "breaks leg," and things like that are just fine. Just don't go into much more detail than that.

saying "i chop of your head" isnt gory at all.. Going into intricate detail about it may be, A good rule of thumb is to always ask those involved first

Last edited by LetumLux on Sat, Sep 10 2011, 1:53 AM, edited 1 time in total.

The general rule (unless it has been changed, my PvP lore is always a bit outdated, it seems) is:
Killer Determines State Of Killed.

If your character is slain, the PC/Player who slayed your PC can determine whether or not they are actually dead (or simply bashed unconscious, etc) and can basically do whatever they want within server rules to the body. This means they still need your Player consent to do anything to the PC's body that involves PnP spells, but they are free to dismember it and scatter the parts across the river ala Set and Osiris.

Since another Player cannot force the permanent death of your PC, however, what this achieves is mainly the removal from a current situation (because Raise Dead cannot restore a dismembered creature to life) like the others have mentioned. Without some heftier resources available, such as a Cleric capable of casting Resurrection, your PC is generally seen to be out of commission until a greater effort has been put forth to deal with the dismemberment/dissolution into acid/being thrown into a volcano, etc.

It has been said that only DMs are allowed to use True Resurrection (I don't recall where, or I'd link or quote it)* which is how you would bring back to life someone who had been thrown into a volcano, or otherwise had absolutely no physical remains left. But I'm fairly certain that was in the context of something else, and there are plenty of "gentleman's agreements" between Players involved in such a situation where they figure out a way to have True Resurrection cast and bring back a PC destroyed in an utter manner, anyway.

* Ah, here it is. Corpse Burning and True Res?

A DM is needed to supervise True Resurrections (and they do exact the price from what I understand) but.. aside from that.. *nodnod*

ThayanBastard wrote:

saying "i chop of your head" isnt gory at all.. Going into intricate detail about it may be, A good rule of thumb is to always ask those involved first

There are specific rules that relate to torture on this server. No matter how much each of the players involved agree, if you go over board with torture, expect to get banned for a time over it. Asking is probably a good idea, but it's not a green light to go all out with gorey details. These things are treated no different than cybering on Amia.

It wasn't me!

My opinion is probably reasonably well known on this topic by now. I generally think destroying someones body is bloody rediculous on Amia. Esepically since its something usually done by people who want to try and force others to stop playing their PC's. But I'm in the minority, and its not a server rule. So eh. Just RP coming back in some way. Doesn't matter how. Its entirely dumb anyway.

Unless your burning corpses in some funeral pyre procession with loads of RP, I won't be giving out DC's for RP that includes it. I find it distasteful.

Personally, I think that DM oversight should be required for any burning RP. If it's required to come back from it, it's only fair that it be required to force another player into that situation in the first place.

Lord-Jyssev wrote:

Personally, I think that DM oversight should be required for any burning RP. If it's required to come back from it, it's only fair that it be required to force another player into that situation in the first place.

Which unless you have a dedicated and paid staff would never even remotely come close to administering the rapid fire actions of 60+ people. With the kind of play times the more addicted and evil folks have at times honestly it seems like they move at the same speed as the in game day/night cycle. Productive little evil bunnies for sure.

Gunz wrote:

There are specific rules that relate to torture on this server. No matter how much each of the players involved agree, if you go over board with torture, expect to get banned for a time over it. Asking is probably a good idea, but it's not a green light to go all out with gorey details. These things are treated no different than cybering on Amia.

I meant ask about the head being chopped off.. Yes graphis torture is a NO NO

Crow had his head sawed off, he needed a Resurrection, which was DM approved.
Not sure if it needs DM approval or not, but that was the case for me.

True Ressurection requires a DM.

No DM: No True Res. Period.

You don't need a True Res for a headless corpse!
Also, question: I'm assuming it's not alright to RP a city healer Ressurectioning someone without a DM around?

As far as I understand it people were true ressing themselves out of sticky situations far too often and it was truly disruptsive to everybody else so it now requires dm oversight to use that trick. On the other hand no player can forcible stop another player from playing his character for a longer time. This is again within limits because this doesn't mean you can just jump during pvp and come running back to exact revenge. But the bottom line is, yes true res requires dm oversight and no mutilation no matter how bad will permanently remove another character from the game.

Resurrection on the other hand, does not.

The nice thing about Resurrection is that it's only slightly less powerful than True Resurrection, especially in the scope of NWN. The only real difference between the two spells, besides DM consent, is that True Resurrection requires nothing at all except identifiable knowledge of the deceased - no remains necessary, and there's no penalties for 1st level characters being brought back to life in that fashion, and it can restore more types of creatures.

You can use Resurrection on someone who's physical remains consists of only a small amount of fine dust (such as the result of Disintegration) though. If you can use a fine dust remnants, I imagine you could use a lock of hair. There's actually few things a PC could conceivably do to another PC's remains to necessitate a True Resurrection without also having to get some kind of PnP consent within the typical realm of the server, and most of that still requires more effort (/complication, risk of being interrupted) than some murderers are really willing to put out, I think.

Gunz wrote:

ThayanBastard wrote:

saying "i chop of your head" isnt gory at all.. Going into intricate detail about it may be, A good rule of thumb is to always ask those involved first

There are specific rules that relate to torture on this server. No matter how much each of the players involved agree, if you go over board with torture, expect to get banned for a time over it. Asking is probably a good idea, but it's not a green light to go all out with gorey details. These things are treated no different than cybering on Amia.

Not to lead this topic astray, but does this mean you discussed this already? We were told to watch the space of the previous topic, but nothing ever came of it so I'm still kind of in the dark about your current rule.

No it hasn't been discussed.

Well take your time then. >_>

See torture thread.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59934&p=1007048#p1007048

Eh...Wat?

So cutting of heads falls under that rule?

No no. Entirely unrelated.

Way to read a topic.

I think chopping off heads and then enforcing some PnP aspect of Raise Dead is a little awkward. Not that I disagree with the spell limits; rather, I would prefer some mechanism that prevented Raise from actually working if you damaged the body severely with the PvP widget or something.

I was told that a headless body needs Resurrection, Raise Dead is not enough.
I believe it was a DM.
*shrugs*

Kudark wrote:

I was told that a headless body needs Resurrection, Raise Dead is not enough.
I believe it was a DM.
*shrugs*

You are correct.

Kudark wrote:

I was told that a headless body needs Resurrection, Raise Dead is not enough.

IronAngel wrote:

I think chopping off heads and then enforcing some PnP aspect of Raise Dead is a little awkward.

Resurrection doesn't require DM consent, though. Of the three revival spells we're discussing, only True Resurrection does. You just need a high enough level Cleric, really.

So if someone chops off a head, even eats the head (or eats the body and leaves the head), while Raise Dead would not work, but Resurrection would. True Resurrection would not be needed.

Lord-Jyssev wrote:

If it's required to come back from it, it's only fair that it be required to force another player into that situation in the first place.

I think that if a PC is going to throw the body of another PC into the ocean with the expectation of having the sea critters eat absolutely every last morsel of the victim (thus to require a True Resurrection) they should have to get that cleared.

In a way, it'd be like metagaming the environment and NPCs if they don't because they don't control the game world and therefore can't say weather or not any bits are missed and get washed up to be found by allies of the victim, or whathaveyou.

If we're on this road of consent, it stands to reason that the Killer as well as the Killed should be involved, like taking screen shots of the RP where you throw the hacked up body into the Alambar Sea and send them to a DM. Said DM then could then turn around the tell the Player of the Killed PC whether or not it requires a True Resurrection.

They proceed normally from there, with the Players equipped with the answer should it arise when their friends go to save them. The Player of the Killer PC can claim whatever they want, but they can't define the reality of the situation, so really, they don't need to know what the answer is in most cases.

LetumLux wrote:

Kudark wrote:

I was told that a headless body needs Resurrection, Raise Dead is not enough.

IronAngel wrote:

I think chopping off heads and then enforcing some PnP aspect of Raise Dead is a little awkward.

Resurrection doesn't require DM consent, though. Of the three revival spells we're discussing, only True Resurrection does. You just need a high enough level Cleric, really.

So if someone chops off a head, even eats the head (or eats the body and leaves the head), while Raise Dead would not work, but Resurrection would. True Resurrection would not be needed.

Exactly. So it would be cool if Resurrection was actually needed, because I can bet that 90% of these cases get a normal Raise scroll after the PvP encounter is over. If there's an additional rule of such relative obscurity (which I fully embrace), it would be nice and ideal if it was actually represented mechanically. But I reckon it's not a very high priority.

Oh, yeah, I get what you're saying now. I couldn't read the inflection in it before. :lol:

Quote:

So if someone chops off a head, even eats the head (or eats the body and leaves the head), while Raise Dead would not work, but Resurrection would. True Resurrection would not be needed.

I recall reading somewhere that there needs to be a certain percentage left of the corpse's mass (possibly, 40%?), if not a normal Ressurection spell could bring someone back with just a pinky left. Or is this untrue?

Also, would say - healing/patching up a corpse with it's original parts before using a Raise Dead be feasible?

Quote:

a normal Ressurection spell could bring someone back with just a pinky left.

It can.

Quote:

Also, would say - healing/patching up a corpse with it's original parts before using a Raise Dead be feasible?

Context dependant imo.

Quote:

While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life.

The whole chopping off heads thing is a leftover from before the death timer was put in place to IC'ly prevent people from just raising their fallen comrades all willy-nilly. Since there's now a timer in place, I find the practice to be an exercise in futility. It's not like you're able to keep the trophy because when the body is brought back, the head would go bye-bye.

Personally, I think it would be much more interesting if people got more creative. The middle finger of an archer, the thumb of a warrior.... things that their compatriots may forget and just read a raise dead over them, bringing them back missing vital parts of their combat effectiveness.

ainjyll wrote:

Personally, I think it would be much more interesting if people got more creative. The middle finger of an archer, the thumb of a warrior.... things that their compatriots may forget and just read a raise dead over them, bringing them back missing vital parts of their combat effectiveness.

Assuming people start doing this, maybe an answer of what is acceptable for mending such is needed. The spell Regenerate says it regrows limbs. What about Monstrous Regeneration? Or even +1 regen on equipment? I won't even mention the regen from a certain new class' new ability because I don't know if that'll stay once the hak's finalized.

I would think that the spell regen would be more apt than items. To me it seems like a +1 Regen item (or any Regen item, really) would just heal way too slow to regrow a limb. But I dunno XD

It at least forces you to find a DM or PC cleric to cast Regeneration

Item regeneration is more likely to be Fast Healing, whereas Regeneration is actual regeneration.

Always seen item regen and normal regen as constant healing. Monstourous Regen being the one that regens limbs.
Thats why its meant to be almost impossible to harm trolls without fire or acid, they regen so fast you can't actually hurt them. Amia's trolls are not proper trolls.

Monstrous Regeneration is a 5th level cleric spell that gives 3 HP per round and has a duration of 1 round per 2 caster levels.

Regenerate is a 7th level cleric spell that gives 6 HP per round and has a duration of 1 round per caster level. It's noted that the SRD specifically says Regenerate regrows limbs. There is no entry for Monstrous Regeneration.

Also, Monstrous Regeneration is not what the trolls have. It's a constant thing. I just have no reason why they call the spell Monstrous.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Monstrous Regeneration is a 5th level cleric spell that gives 3 HP per round and has a duration of 1 round per 2 caster levels.

Regenerate is a 7th level cleric spell that gives 6 HP per round and has a duration of 1 round per caster level. It's noted that the SRD specifically says Regenerate regrows limbs. There is no entry for Monstrous Regeneration.

Also, Monstrous Regeneration is not what the trolls have. It's a constant thing. I just have no reason why they call the spell Monstrous.

Thats entirely false advertising!

I'm suing the weave!

Anyway, a wizards spell should not heal chopped off limbs. Wizards are not clerics.

I....don't know where you're getting wizard from? They're both cleric spells. And my post said that.

I don't know why, but I could have sworn I saw the word Wizard there. My eyes must being going to hell...

Spellplague changed it?

Chopping off heads.

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