AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I thought your development team might be interested in my first impression, which was not good, in order to attract new players.

First of all the splash screen at http://www.amiaworld.net/ needs to be replaced with something that looks like a regular, easy to navigate website. Hiding the entrance to the website at the bottom is unwise and splash screens are unpopular and more importantly, technically useless, requiring the visitor to make unnecessary clicks.

Second, subrace selection should happen entirely in game and not require you to read OOC how-to's first and learn a bunch of keywords. It should not require homework to navigate character creation.

Third, I am confused by the decision to start drow underdarkers behind a door which has 5 bats and 2 rats behind it. I died four times in under two minutes trying to get to an actual settlement. I am frankly surprised by how unpolished things are for a module that is so old. These are all small changes that could be made in no time flat that will increase the appeal of the server.

Subraces are actually too easy to get to. Far too many people choose them for the stats and not for the heritage. I think they ought to read through far more to get to use them.

And drow are from the Underdark. It's supposed to be dangerous.

Quote:

Subraces are actually too easy to get to. Far too many people choose them for the stats and not for the heritage. I think they ought to read through far more to get to use them.

+1

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Subraces are actually too easy to get to. Far too many people choose them for the stats and not for the heritage. I think they ought to read through far more to get to use them.

And drow are from the Underdark. It's supposed to be dangerous.

One of the reasons the server is reputed to be overwhelmed with drow good surfacers might have to do with how impossible it appears to be to start in the UD. I tried to go 1 way and got murdered by 5 spawns, then I went the other way on-boat and got murdered by 3 trolls.

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:

Quote:

Subraces are actually too easy to get to. Far too many people choose them for the stats and not for the heritage. I think they ought to read through far more to get to use them.

+1

Maybe we should make elf and dwarf and halfling harder to get to since they get stat boosts as well.

AMIA.
Our recidivism rate is OVER 100%.

Beat that, WoW.

I wouldnt mind it being harder to pick a special subrace because it would help with immersion... all derk is saying is that doing your homework before you make a character is far better then just jumping into a race blind and then doing things that said race just wouldn't do...

I will use ghostwise hin for an example since I am playing one... if you read the small section on them on this server it doesnt say much.. it says they are nomadic and silently move through the forest... why are they silent? why are they nomadic? these things are vital to know if you want a backstory that works and fits into the existing culture of amia.

It wasnt until I did more homework on ghostwise that I learned they dont talk because of the ghostwars and that their people were corrupted for a time by Malar... now as penance they dont talk unless it is absolutely dire circumstances. Why did they become nomadic? They left their home for Chondalwood after the wars not wanting to have face other kin after what they did.

Just those three things... How... When and most importantly Why have filled a blank character with a much richer story. Also it helped me forge a proper route for said Hin.. Malar was a viable option for her by reading the subrace section here... but in truth because of the Ghostwars a Malarite Ghostwise hin would be extremely rare... so I was able to avoid that mistake and pick a proper god for a druid ghostwise.

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:

I wouldnt mind it being harder to pick a special subrace because it would help with immersion... all derk is saying is that doing your homework before you make a character is far better then just jumping into a race blind and then doing things that said race just wouldn't do...

I will use ghostwise hin for an example since I am playing one... if you read the small section on them on this server it doesnt say much.. it says they are nomadic and silently move through the forest... why are they silent? why are they nomadic? these things are vital to know if you want a backstory that works and fits into the existing culture of amia.

It wasnt until I did more homework on ghostwise that I learned they dont talk because of the ghostwars and that their people were corrupted for a time by Malar... now as penance they dont talk unless it is absolutely dire circumstances. Why did they become nomadic? They left their home for Chondalwood after the wars not wanting to have face other kin after what they did.

Just those three things... How... When and most importantly Why have filled a blank character with a much richer story. Also it helped me forge a proper route for said Hin.. Malar was a viable option for her by reading the subrace section here... but in truth because of the Ghostwars a Malarite Ghostwise hin would be extremely rare... so I was able to avoid that mistake and pick a proper god for a druid ghostwise.

My objection wasn't to researching your character background, it was to the idea that the subrace selection process requires you to visit the forums, find the appropriate keyword, then type that in to your subrace while building. This process could be done entirely in-game and when it comes to attracting new players you want a process that is inviting and doesn't require unnecessary steps.

Ideally, a person will have read the all the lore and rules and changes prior to logging in. That's how it should be.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Ideally, a person will have read the all the lore and rules and changes prior to logging in. That's how it should be.

Using the subrace field is not a rule. I read all the rules prior to logging in.

It should be the same way it is on every other server: You pick your base race and then once you enter the gaming world you can designate your subrace. It's obviously mechanically possible to do it this way. Hell, you could even do it both ways, my personal favorite choice.

It's lore. And I specified lore as well.

When you enter the game, you are expected to be IC in-character, not fiddling with races.
I assume that's one reason the subrace changer is in the entryway.
As with any Role-play server, there are House rules and modifications done to the game, which require a certain amount of homework in order to effectively follow those rules.
Not everyone plays D&D tabletop, or reads the novels, so they need to read up on the races and whatnot to properly run their character.

The author DOES have a point, In my humble opinion - So stop harassing him.

The http://www.amiaworld.net first page should be updated, Add like a few maps of Amia to it and general hotlinks to what you need to know.
It will be easier to get new players logging in, and getting them hooked on our fantastic server without having to jump hoops.

melzaren wrote:

I thought your development team might be interested in my first impression, which was not good, in order to attract new players.

First of all the splash screen at http://www.amiaworld.net/ needs to be replaced with something that looks like a regular, easy to navigate website. Hiding the entrance to the website at the bottom is unwise and splash screens are unpopular and more importantly, technically useless, requiring the visitor to make unnecessary clicks.

Second, subrace selection should happen entirely in game and not require you to read OOC how-to's first and learn a bunch of keywords. It should not require homework to navigate character creation.

Third, I am confused by the decision to start drow underdarkers behind a door which has 5 bats and 2 rats behind it. I died four times in under two minutes trying to get to an actual settlement. I am frankly surprised by how unpolished things are for a module that is so old. These are all small changes that could be made in no time flat that will increase the appeal of the server.

1. Not a professional website, and we are already miles ahead of other servers by simply having a website that isn't proboards.

2. No. Subrace selection is done via the game engines subrace field. Its a choice to not make someone have to wait for someone else to use a silly conversation window. Furthermore, it allows the person to get playing straight away, once they actually start playing. Rather then being bogged down by a thousand things they have to do before they can even play the game. There is nothing worse then having 20 players all sitting in an entry, going through piles and piles of stuff, just so they can actually get to the play part. This way, someone can plan before hand what they wish to do in game when they might not have access to NWN, and then when they do have access, can get right to it.

3. Fair point, though you only get started in that spot on A. Logging into server B starts you in an underdark city. Admittingly we do warn players that playing as a Drow for the first time is NOT advised, since its a hard road from the bottom of that race.

Nobody's harassing anybody, Svensk. Chill.

Svensk, Hotlinks would not make the splash page any better. Its infact, exactly what the next page from the splash page has, which is links and information for newbies. Rather the link to the newbies page needs to be made a little bigger likely, thats probably about it. The argument that the splash page makes people confused is silly, as it doesn't. What makes people confused is dumping them in a fourm with absolutely no idea where to go.

It is commonly accepted sociology that in the case of collectively produced goods (like RP) a higher cost of participation in the social circle increases the rewards by reducing free-rider problems; in our case, people who do not make the expected effort to research into our standards and customs.

Whether or not our way of doing it is ideal for introducing dedicated new players to Amia is another matter, though. I have no idea about marketing and web design.

The subrace activation is probably not an issue, because hardly anyone makes a detailed character on their first visit to a new server anyhow. Irrespective of whether we want them to or not.

Quote:

Third, I am confused by the decision to start drow underdarkers behind a door which has 5 bats and 2 rats behind it. I died four times in under two minutes trying to get to an actual settlement.

If you started on A as a UD drow, you started on the wrong server pretty much. Most of the UD settlements are on B, and UD drow start there in one of them on that server. The UD on A's startpoint is a remnant from a city that got wiped out in an event a while back, and I agree that it should have been moved (or removed) by now.

Try not being so critical of the server. Or of a website that many have put in hardwork into. These are people who volunteer their time to do this outside of their normal lives. If you wish to join the server we are happy to have you but please be respectful amd try not to be so megative. Do your background for ami. Read all the forum rules and about amia. You might gain a new attitude by doing so. Its recommended anyways for new players to check out the website anyways because in game things take place here too. its helpful and laid out in sections according to ooc info, ig and factions.when you first go to it, it takes you to those two places to get started and for the haks for a reason. so new players like yourselves know what amia is going to be like and things you wil need to play. Its actually quite easy to use amiaworld.net. you click the little word amia in yellow when you want to get back to the main page.

There is always room for improvement.

I have first impressions from this first impression.

http://amiawiki.shatuga.com/index.php/Drow This helps explain both the drow roleplay, and tips for getting your row started!

Thanks for the feedback. Usually better if you post these things in the Improving Amia forums, btw.

Last edited by Naivatkal on Tue, Sep 20 2011, 15:26 PM, edited 1 time in total.

*reads thread title*
*reads ironic first post*
*reads consecutive ironic posts*

You all know what just happened, right?
trollface.jpg

edit: because eff me I didn't realize that pic was so darn big. S'what I get for finding it and posting off my phone

melzaren wrote:

DerkDerkistan wrote:

And drow are from the Underdark. It's supposed to be dangerous.

One of the reasons the server is reputed to be overwhelmed with drow good surfacers might have to do with how impossible it appears to be to start in the UD. I tried to go 1 way and got murdered by 5 spawns, then I went the other way on-boat and got murdered by 3 trolls.

Derk said it and I agree. I have drow characters and thought it was awesome that it's really tough down there. (well after the shock of not being able to retreat out of the area due to the cave entrance being "busy", heh) You have to go really slow, you have to talk to all the NPC's some of whom are rude and berate your character - as they should, lol.

Plus that ECL makes it deadly if you're not very strategic about your forays into the dangerous UD.

So, my little opinion is that the dev team did an awesome job with the UD. Even going so far as to make books available with translations so you can know whats in that cave you're choosing.

If you decide you have the fortitude and patience it takes then post on the UD forum and ICly look for a guide or put down you're new in town. There are drow players who will step up to make your experience a little less murderous.

On a completely side note, if someone has that much difficulty navigating a website with clearly marked links which do lead to these very forums they probably lack the ability to install NWN, get the Haks working, and the ability to log in, read/write or otherwise posess a means with which to stop being a pet rock on a gamers computer desk.

Also while there is always room for improvement bear in mind the leigon of people who do this without recieveing money/sexual favors or really any sort of reembursement for time spent would likely prefer to spend their time on productive things and as I recall there is a massive hak release scheduled and in beta at this very moment, but we should stop doing that and fix a not-broken website.

Thank you for your input we always appriciate constructive feedback.

About the intitial concern, I would argue that the links requires are already there but it might be a good idea to move them to the top and include maybe another link to the forum index. About the subraces I believe the original reason for having them so was mechnical as in it was easier and I kinda like you have to skim through the general description of the race before getting it working. I can understand your point though! As to the underdark spot on A yeah its not really fleshed out enough to be a beginner spot and it would probably be prudent to add a note in the start text that drow players should really start on B because that area is much more suited for it.

As final note please people please try to be gentle with the newcomers, here a guy is simply offering some first impressions of the server and thats fine. No reason to field all the negativity.

I must admit, I find it frustrating that I cant get to the forum index from the main page.

Feonir wrote:

On a completely side note, if someone has that much difficulty navigating a website with clearly marked links which do lead to these very forums they probably lack the ability to install NWN, get the Haks working, and the ability to log in, read/write or otherwise posess a means with which to stop being a pet rock on a gamers computer desk.

Also while there is always room for improvement bear in mind the leigon of people who do this without recieveing money/sexual favors or really any sort of reembursement for time spent would likely prefer to spend their time on productive things and as I recall there is a massive hak release scheduled and in beta at this very moment, but we should stop doing that and fix a not-broken website.

... So my offers of said favors must mean nothing then?

;_: foreveralone.jpg

Day Dreaming wrote:

I must admit, I find it frustrating that I cant get to the forum index from the main page.

favorite amiaworld.net/phpbb3/index.php and use that as your direct link

ILoveIceCream wrote:

Day Dreaming wrote:

I must admit, I find it frustrating that I cant get to the forum index from the main page.

favorite amiaworld.net/phpbb3/index.php and use that as your direct link

Aye quite, and I do that at home. But I'm frequently on PCs that aren't my own at work. Just a minor frustration though.

melzaren wrote:

I thought your development team might be interested in my first impression, which was not good, in order to attract new players.

First of all the splash screen at http://www.amiaworld.net/ needs to be replaced with something that looks like a regular, easy to navigate website. Hiding the entrance to the website at the bottom is unwise and splash screens are unpopular and more importantly, technically useless, requiring the visitor to make unnecessary clicks.

Second, subrace selection should happen entirely in game and not require you to read OOC how-to's first and learn a bunch of keywords. It should not require homework to navigate character creation.

Third, I am confused by the decision to start drow underdarkers behind a door which has 5 bats and 2 rats behind it. I died four times in under two minutes trying to get to an actual settlement. I am frankly surprised by how unpolished things are for a module that is so old. These are all small changes that could be made in no time flat that will increase the appeal of the server.

Can't comment on the splash screen, though we get the "Why isn't it just the forums" quite a bit. I agree with you but I'm not the one to make those changes.

Subrace selection "could" happen entirely in game, yes. However, a player is completely able to make a character within NWN without it. The forums are an essential part of Amia, and their existence is given to you in your journal when you make a new character. As for OOC "how-tos", that's really jsut how subraces are scripted in NWN. You would be reading an "OOC How To" regardless of if it was in game or via the forum. IF it were in game, you'd have had to make a character just to learn how. With it being on the forum, if you're a new player that happens to come to the forum first to get an idea before logging in for the first time (and indeed, a necessary thing anyways, with our hak), you'll have all of the information needed to create a subraced character the very first time you log in, letting you get right to the RP faster and easier. I think this boils down to an argument of preference unfortunately, and as they say, you can't please everyone all of the time.

Re: Drow... I saw a comment on how the server gives a note recommending that Drow are harder to play. I can't remember if that note is actually still there since it's been so long since I created a brand new Drow character. If it is there though, it could probably do with an addition that says "Drow should Really start on Server B and not Server A." In this respect you are right, though I argue that it's not so much due to "lack of polish". It's quite polished and you start exactly where you're meant to start. It's just a location that's not easy at all. We also offer this to other races with the same caveat. I believe (again, grain of salt: Haven't made anew Drow character in a long time) that as an Underdark Drow you have the option of beginning in Underport, which is a full fledged city in the Underdark and not the ruins of Ultrinnan. So that would solve your problem very neatly, and at character creation no less.

Thank you for the feedback.

drow on A should have their default to Underport...instead of some random cavern by a destroyed city.

ILoveIceCream wrote:

drow on A should have their default to Underport...instead of some random cavern by a destroyed city.

Yes yes yes yes yes! A thousand yes!
Please change it, or must i make a topic in the IA forums and whine?

My first impression of you is that you haven't visited "How to start on Amia" page, which has a perfectly sound reason of being there. If you did, you'd read the next quote:

Quote:

-----------------------------------------------------
:arrow:

These forums
-----------------------------------------------------

I make some coffee, I eat some rice chocs
and then I sit down to check my inbox

Generally people are very helpful, although they like to have an argument about almost anything, including such innocent questions as "where can I find a shop that sells a good sword?". Don't take it as a personal insult when people tell you to ask while you are in the game, it's just how we do things around here. One thing I advise against, however, is to start your first post with "I come from this other server that does everything different and you should redesign your server to look the same". You will get annoyed comments. A thing you should do is posting a little message with an introduction in Off Topic. It's the best way to make a positive impression.

Which is exactly what you did.

melzaren wrote:

Using the subrace field is not a rule. I read all the rules prior to logging in.
It should be the same way it is on every other server: You pick your base race and then once you enter the gaming world you can designate your subrace. It's obviously mechanically possible to do it this way. Hell, you could even do it both ways, my personal favorite choice.

Subrace system:
I am not an experienced nwn online player (yet) but I tried a few servers. I tried one where I did the whole subrace thing in game through a conversation panel and it was *** annoying. Took me like fifteen minutes then had to do other things and when I basically got to the starting point I was so bored that I quit after five minutes in the town.
I read up before I started my first subrace based character here and it did not take much longer and at least I had some basic idea how to rp that subrace.

I agree that some parts are really hard to survive by yourself, my toons die far too often when take the wrong turn (like starting level character leaves Bendir... trolls or spiders or last time "let just see what is behind the gate of Brogendeisnteinwhatever"). (I might post something about this in the improving amia section.) And it can put off new players.

Homepage issue. I think it is a really small thing, I usually spend my Amia time ingame or on the forums.

The homepage issue is very true. I whined about it the day the start page was introduced and used a driect bookmark past it ever since.

More clicks to access information are always a bad thing no matter how awesome of an idea you think you had.

ILoveIceCream wrote:

drow on A should have their default to Underport...instead of some random cavern by a destroyed city.

Agreed.

Silvarus wrote:

... and used a driect bookmark past it ever since.

See? Sorted! :lol:

Do note, People, that it takes Very little for a new player to skim on and continue to another server instead. Our goal should be to recruit and increase our community, Not shun them off with obnoxious remarks (like many in this thread)

Take this criticism to heart and see what can be done.

Agreed and I believe his concerns have been noted by those that need to note them. Therefore, I'll lock this before someone else can feel slighted by melzaren's comments and decide to be snarky.

My personal suggestion, try switching over to Amia B with your drow. You'll find a quite well organized set of areas that create a massive city for the Underdark races.

First impressions.

Who is online