AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Right that's what I figured and wanted to clarify

This seems appropriate here:

Can you cast Magic Circle, use the BoT page, then cast it again to protect from evil/good and law/chaos? Or does the first casting apply only?

You can do all the ones.

Cool. Kind of a waste of slots, but cool to know!

All-righty.

I want to make a feytouched character very much in tune with his fey origin. Gravemaskin and Darken Wood have already helped me a lot with the lore background, however this still needs to find his way into nwn into preferably a character that is not entirely a bother to possible party members.

Core attributes: dex & cha

Required classes:

SD (min 6 for the HIPS)
Druid (min 5 for the wild shape; note that it increases to 2 and 3 uses a day on level 6 and 7 which would be nice)
Bard

I know quite well what role this character would have rp-wise, however his combat role still needs some tuning. Generally not one for entering the melee, favouring ranged attacks and supporting the other party members.

So if you have any suggestions: shoot.
Note that if necessary I could remove the druid levels, though this wouldn't be my first option.

You can't really do a traditional build with the setup you described because the maximum amount of bard you'd be able to take is 19. Considering you have no strength desired and virtually no damage output, all you'll be doing is spamming 10 round bard songs over and over because you'll be useless at everything else. It'd be pretty boring.

I get the feeling you wanted bard over druid, but if not, 23 Druid/6 SD/1 Bard is fun! Alternatively, 23 Bard/6 SD/1 Ranger if you did want heavy bard.

A shadow dancing druid that likes music? not much synergy there

21 Druid/6 sd/ 2 bard might work quite well... your pet wont be all uber but for PVM it could work...

take druid straight through to epic and you wont have much of a problem... instead of dex go wisdom and take zen archery is another option... you will have all the good druid buffs... a decent enough SR... it could work

I just hope you go Seelie!

Quote:

I get the feeling you wanted bard over druid, but if not, 23 Druid/6 SD/1 Bard is fun! Alternatively, 23 Bard/6 SD/1 Ranger if you did want heavy bard.

Feytouched are +1 ECL

Any other classes that you would allow in the build? Bard and druid in a mix, cut down by 6 SD levels and an ecl+1 race is a bit tricky... i mean, Bard8/Druid15/SD6? That would be my call, although you mentioned you want to focus on DEX and CHA...

How about switching Druid to Cleric, and/or leaving DEX at the starting amount, raising WIS instead for the sake of playability and taking Zen Archery?

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:

A shadow dancing druid that likes music? not much synergy there

21 Druid/6 sd/ 2 bard might work quite well... your pet wont be all uber but for PVM it could work...

take druid straight through to epic and you wont have much of a problem... instead of dex go wisdom and take zen archery is another option... you will have all the good druid buffs... a decent enough SR... it could work

I just hope you go Seelie!

I see it as working fine. There's plenty of traditional shaman types who tend to nature and act as a folk-tale telling sage. Bards don't just have to be frolicking panpipe players, after all. They can be loremasters and storytellers too. The fact Shadowdancer has Perform requirements in PnP only enforces its synergy with Bard, really. Even moreso if you picked a fey type that protects the forests through illusion and trickery.

The +1 ECL is a pain, though. I suppose 22 Druid would have to do. You don't want 15 Druid if you're trying to be a caster, you have the CL of a weakling and no epic spells to boot.

Cleric/Bard/SD would be a safe party support kind of character with good ranged damage output at 4 attacks per round. If you don't want to spam elemental aoe spells at stuff, this would be the way to go.

Last edited by Dergaii on Mon, Sep 26 2011, 15:19 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I'd like it to be bard heavy.

The druid aspects are mainly influenced by the possibility to wild shape as you can have the druidic perspective without actual class levels. And as said I can give up on the druid levels.

Also Lasting Inspiration according to nwnwiki:

Lasting inspiration

Type of feat: general (epic)
Prerequisite: 21st level, perform 25, bard song

Can I take it without going epic bard?

Edit: I've just seen you need 20 bard levels to take it.

Yes but you have to take your 20th level of bard at 30

What is the concept you're going for, then? If you want to be ranged, supportive and both DEX/CHA, just go 20 Bard/9 AA.

Does Arcane Archer work with Feytouched, since the subrace changes your racial type to Fey?

Oh that darn feytouched subrace.

There are not honestly many dexterity bard builds available that make you suitable for little more than cowering at the back and chipping away for 15~ damage per hit. I suppose you could be simple and just go 23 Bard/6 Shadowdancer. Like already said, your damage would be sad but epic buffs and HiPS makes you both an ideal party buffer and a survivor to revive everyone else if necessary.

You could also go 22 Bard/6 Shadowdancer/1 Ranger. Same amount of feats, but you do gain free dual-wielding. You're rather locked to 20 Bard and 6 SD minimum, though, so anything you do will be between the three spare levels remaining.

now you got me thinking... how cool it would be to have a fey touched druid with dryad blood controlling the combat by literally dancing from shadow to shadow laughing with glee the whole time as she comes out to cast an earthquake or maxid icestorm then jump right back in the shadows as her pet and summons do all the grunt work...

heres my take on it:

Feytouched 21 druid/6shadows dancer/2 bard

str: 12
dex: 16
con: 10
intel: 14
wis: 17 *23 which could be fixed to add more con*
cha: 8 (+2 to race = 10)

feats: extend, skill focus hide, skill focus MS, zen archery, maximize, dodge, mobility
epic: epic mummy dust, epic skill focus hide, epic skill focus MS

skills:
Animal empathy: 24
Concentration :32
Hide: 32
Move silently: 32
Perform: 4
Spellcraft: 32
Tumble: 30
Use Magic Device 20

If I am ever bored enough I might try this build

I'd make a 24 druid/4 sd/1 bard instead

No hips, but you can shadowjump, which is much cooler. You'd get more epic spells to play with as well. Closest thing you'll get to tree stride (although DMs might shoot you if you rp it as tree stride).

Yes. It's Shadow Jump, not Tree Stride.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Yes. It's Shadow Jump, not Tree Stride.

Ok. I think I've finalised things for what I'm planning.

Human
Cleric27/Paladin2/Monk1.

STR 16 -> 18
DEX 8
CON 10
WIS 15 -> 20
INT 12
CHA 14

Feats: Power Attack, Divine Might & Shield, Blind Fight, Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Weapon Focus (Spear), Improved Critical (Spear).
Epic Feats: Armour Skin, Epic Weapon Focus (Spear), Mummy Dust, Autoquicken 1-3.

Skills: Concentration 33, Discipline 32, Spellcraft 33, Tumble 30.

Verdict please!

I can't honestly see any possible tweaks. You're fairly locked to that distribution as an Auto-Quicken user, anyoo! Should be good.

It's an interesting idea and while it seems awfully gimmicky, I cannot help but to think of your character spamming a few EQs in the outbreak of a battle, then buffing himself to überness, kicking everyone's bums silly. Practically terrible use of four feats, especially when taking into account the deficiency of your DC and poor quantity of feats as a whole, but luckily people are lazy to gear for their reflex saves.

I'd consider dropping Improved Critical for Maximise. Also Cleric25/Paladin4/Monk1 isn't a bad spread either, if you only go with Autoquicken II; it's enough for all the buffs you need to cast hastily in battle. You can also revise dropping Mummy Dust instead of Autoquicken III with the 25/4/1.

Last edited by Dergaii on Tue, Sep 27 2011, 12:51 PM, edited 1 time in total.

So I came to the following (Ability bonuses and feats included, otherwise naked):

Quote:

Feytouched

Classes

Bard: 21
Shadow Dancer: 6
Ranger: 2

Abilities

Str: 10
Dex: 18 -> 25
Con: 8
Wis: 10
Int: 12
Cha: 16+2

Stats

HP: 165
AC: 23
BAB: +19/+14/+9/+4
Fort: +11
Ref: +22
Will: +11

Skills

Animal Empathy: 27
Hide: 54
Move Silently: 54
Perform: 36
Tumble: 37
UMD: 20

Feats

Extra Music
Curse Song
Lasting Inspiration
Dodge
Mobility
Skill Focus: Hide
Skill Focus: Move Silently
Epic Skill Focus: Hide
Epic Skill Focus: Move Silently

Suggestions?

I don't believe you posted all your feats there. Anyway, a lot of what your feat choices are superfluous or just plain unneeded.

Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Extend Spell, Maximise Spell, Curse Song, Weapon Focus: Longbow, Improved Critical: Longbow
Epic Feats: Lasting Inspiration, Armor Skin, Great Dex I, Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow (from ranger bonus feat)

Remember not to take any ranger until epic for the bonus feat. You're missing Blind-Fight there, but I don't feel it's really essential considering you're not much of a damage build anyway.

Also, I'm not sure if your abilities are added up right for your subrace. You could go:

STR: 10
DEX: 18 > 26 (1 from epic feat)
CON: 10
INT: 14
WIS: 10
CHA: 14 (increased to 16 through feytouched)

Much better since you can take Spot then, and not end up with a piddly HP score.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

I don't believe you posted all your feats there.

Is it really that strange? Or do you assume this will be meta-gamed?

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Extend Spell, Maximise Spell

I understand the extended spell. Is the purpose of the maximisation mainly aimed at buffing?

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Remember not to take any ranger until epic for the bonus feat.

If I were to take but one ranger level at epic range, one would be enough

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Also, I'm not sure if your abilities are added up right for your subrace. You could go:

True: Cha would be 18. However heading towards 16 cha, 14 int and 10 con would open up the possibility for taunt which has a much stronger appeal to me compared to spot.

I'd put that second ranger level in the SD pile. 7 SD and your summon becomes slightly better and you'd have Slippery Mind.

Dergaii wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

I don't believe you posted all your feats there.

Is it really that strange? Or do you assume this will be meta-gamed?

Not really, just helps having the entire list!

Dergaii wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Extend Spell, Maximise Spell

I understand the extended spell. Is the purpose of the maximisation mainly aimed at buffing?

You got it. Maximise Spell on stuff like Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength and etc always give the whole +5 ability bonus, which is fantastic for both setting up your own gear properly and buffing your party members.

2 Ranger, 22 Bard or 7 SD... it doesn't honestly make a huge difference. I would recommend 22 Bard, actually, because the skill bonus your song gives goes from 9 to 11. Slippery Mind is all right too, I suppose, but it's never helped me much.

Either way, you don't need more than 16 Charisma as a bard, so I'd definitely save your points on that stat.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Either way, you don't need more than 16 Charisma as a bard, so I'd definitely save your points on that stat.

Why must you turn this forum into a house of lies?

18 Charisma (Boosted to 30) gives an extra level 2 spell and an extra 6 spell. Another casting of Mass Haste? Joy.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Either way, you don't need more than 16 Charisma as a bard, so I'd definitely save your points on that stat.

Why must you turn this forum into a house of lies?

18 Charisma (Boosted to 30) gives an extra level 2 spell and an extra 6 spell. Another casting of Mass Haste? Joy.

Though In the scope of what I wish to do with the character; the focus will be on dex, having little room to increase cha.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Either way, you don't need more than 16 Charisma as a bard, so I'd definitely save your points on that stat.

Why must you turn this forum into a house of lies?

18 Charisma (Boosted to 30) gives an extra level 2 spell and an extra 6 spell. Another casting of Mass Haste? Joy.

You already have enough level 2 spells as it is at that caster level, and I wouldn't sacrifice 32 HP and 36 skill points for one extra cast of Mass Haste, ta very much.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Either way, you don't need more than 16 Charisma as a bard, so I'd definitely save your points on that stat.

Why must you turn this forum into a house of lies?

18 Charisma (Boosted to 30) gives an extra level 2 spell and an extra 6 spell. Another casting of Mass Haste? Joy.

You already have enough level 2 spells as it is at that caster level, and I wouldn't sacrifice 32 HP and 36 skill points for one extra cast of Mass Haste, ta very much.

I would sacrifice 2 CON and 2 STR. As a Dex Bard, doing next to no damage on your own, your primary purpose is support. I've had a level 30 Bard, with 120 rounds of mass haste per rest as opposed to the proposed 88...still wasn't enough. Casting that spell is the 3rd best thing this character will be able to do for a party, after singing. I'd want as much as possible. Can make up the loss to STR with the extra casting of Bulls Strength. And HP isn't overly imporant....the char is ranged, has AC coming out of its ears, and can HiPS if there is an unexpected shit/fan interface.

20 rounds x 5 Mass Hastes will see anyone through a rest period with room to spare given buffing time. Generally the character in question will also be able to throw out a few extra standard hastes and extended hastes to compensate if your not on the timer.

That said resting every 15 minutes is boring!

Quote:

resting every 15 minutes is boring!

How could you only get 120 rounds of Mass Haste on a Bard30? The only way you could manage that would be to wear less than 6CHA of gear at rest, which is mad crazy foolishness.

Yeah, Maths fail. I didn't factor in the bonus spell from 22CHA when I was thinking of the bonus spell for30.

Well ,it's more "Bard 30 mass haste lasts 30 rounds, how do you only have 4 casts of level 6 spells at level 30?"

I know. I had 5, not 4. Mistake. Should have been 150 rounds vs 110 rather than 120 vs 88. I wanted 6.

How many uses of Dragonshape per day does a pure druid get? Wiki is not specific but it says it "uses" Wildshape and a pure druid would have Infinite Wildshape so is it unlimited?

It has its own set of uses. Three.

Looking to buckle my swash once again. Was thinking duel wielding daggers(for style points) on a Tiefling. I wanted to be less hide and more stab but keep some roguish elements. This is just what I came up with, I'm open to suggestions if someone has an idea for a more fitting swashbuckler that's dexterous and duel wields.

16 Rogue/6 Fighter/7 Weapon Master.

Base Stats:

Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 6

Skills:
Discipline, Disarm Trap, Hide, MS, Open Lock, Pickpocket, Search, Set Trap, Tumble, UMD.

Feats: (is there something worth dropping for improved Two weapon fighting?)

Ambidexteriy
Crippling Strike
Defensive Roll
Dodge
Expertise
Improved Crit
Improved Evasion
Mobility
Spring Attack
Two Weapon Fighting
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus
Weapon Spec
Whirlwind
Epic Dodge
Epic Dex
Epic Weapon Focus
Epic Weapon Spec

Thanks, Zeri

Using daggers, you'll want to drop the Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting feats and use a certain dagger you can find. Pick up Blindfight and something else in their place.

That's losing 1 APR, not sure if that's entirely worth it.
Looks like you need more fighter levels to get ITWF and Blind Fight, as there's nothing that you can afford to drop from your list of feats, except Crippling Strike.

Or drop Epic Dodge and go for STR instead of DEX.

Is it true that shifters get half their level added to spell penetration?

Ulir wrote:

Is it true that shifters get half their level added to spell penetration?

Nope. Spell power, not penetration nor dc.
Spells count of druid levels

thus the most recent shifter i made had epic spell penetration, and epic evocation.
He rocked in lizard form

Thanks for the advice Derk and Aeqvinox. I think I'll keep Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting though as it better fits the character idea I have in mind to have those feats and not just have them on an item.

Thanks again, Zeri

Very_Svensk wrote:

Ulir wrote:

Is it true that shifters get half their level added to spell penetration?

Nope. Spell power, not penetration nor dc.
Spells count of druid levels

thus the most recent shifter i made had epic spell penetration, and epic evocation.
He rocked in lizard form

*Facepalm* never mind i'll live without

On my fighter/bard/AA I now have three pre-epic feats left to pick, but I just can't decide which is better. I got all the archery feats covered, along with called shot, even weaponfinese and WF rapier. I was thinking of maybe beefing saves, or should I go all out spotter with alertness and SF? The char is a half-elf, so the lack of permanent active search makes me doubt his ability to spot well in any combat situation though.

QPR wrote:

On my fighter/bard/AA I now have three pre-epic feats left to pick, but I just can't decide which is better. I got all the archery feats covered, along with called shot, even weaponfinese and WF rapier. I was thinking of maybe beefing saves, or should I go all out spotter with alertness and SF? The char is a half-elf, so the lack of permanent active search makes me doubt his ability to spot well in any combat situation though.

Permasearch is active when you stand still, only elves have it active whilst moving. Don't worry

is the bonus AC vs alignment counting on top of the total armor I have, when I'm fighting the creature of apropriate alignment?

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