AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

If your family had emigrated to Kohlingen, they would have been there before Benwick fell. It's sort of a nonfactor in the end.

Not sure these questions belong here.

Is it possible to somehow "ignore" the five druid levels that is needed to make a shifter, since mage isn't an option due to silly NWN mechanics and rules, or does one have to take the ex-druid route.
If playing a fallen druid, all the spells and druid features will be lost, but also the ability to use scrolls?

And.. would I be able to play a shifter while being a fallen druid?

You can ignore the 5 druid levels, sure. The only constraint is that you don't cast any druid spells if you're playing the character solely as a shifter.

Thanks a lot. Glad to hear that.

Do/can telthor inhabit places other than Rashemen?

Do they, I don't believe so. Can they - maybe. If I recall correctly, Rashemen is full of telthors because the Witches "awakened" the spirits of the land. I believe it's said in the Durthan entry that they can do this in other lands (they mention The Great Dale specifically, so maybe not all lands are candidates), though it's generally considered bad juju (except by the Durthans). So for telthors to appear outside of Rashemen, something like that would have to happen. Don't know of any official sources which talk about this happening, looks like a DM call thing if you wanted to do it yourself.

I have a question! The "Soul Bind" spell, it requires a black sapphire of incredible value. Is this gem created alchemically (or bought cheaply, and then treated alchemically - acquiring its value in that way), or does one simply have to find and buy a really rare and valuable rock?

Im curious about any and all Gnoll presence on Amia.

Are beastman Gnolls? Or just some...random,fur covered beasty things? And whats with the minotuars there?

Are there any other Gnolls at all on or around amia?

Question!

If a wizard is knocked unconscious by their summon (They hadn't prepared the proper protective spells etc) Would the summon be unsummoned?

I wouldn't think so, unless the spell required to summon requires constant constant concentration to maintain, like the Black Blade of Disaster.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

I wouldn't think so, unless the spell required to summon requires constant constant concentration to maintain, like the Black Blade of Disaster.

If game mechanics are correct then this is right. Summons and familars that do not have a concentration check stay until you are dead. Had it happen twice and my mage stabilized as they wrecked the spawn

dayfer wrote:

Question!

If a wizard is knocked unconscious by their summon (They hadn't prepared the proper protective spells etc) Would the summon be unsummoned?

Going by IC, Summons stay out no matter the mental condition of the summoner(possibly barring BBOD). For instance you can be under Sleep(which is existentially comatose). I'd imagine being forcibly knocked unconscious, so long as it didn't kill you, would be much the same as being forced into Sleep or Daze or whatever. So again, it wouldn't be unsummoned just by someone being knocked out. That's actually a good thing in most situations, as it would mean the summon or familiar could drag you to safety, in RP at least.

Now depending on whether or not you consider unsummoning a completely instantaneous act, your idea could still work I guess. There may be a second or two delay in which the unsummon command initiates and the creature is fully pulled back wherever. Say you notice the summon casting Fireball and you realize you're in the path of it, so you try to stop it by unsummoning it. But due to whatever delay, it finishes the spell just before its willed away and you end up getting smacked unconscious. For the sake of RP, I'd say something like that is possible, but as far a summon going crazy or something and attacking its master, it's generally accepted that all non-unique creatures are completely under the control of their master, IIRC.

My Sovereign wrote:

Im curious about any and all Gnoll presence on Amia.

Are beastman Gnolls? Or just some...random,fur covered beasty things? And whats with the minotuars there?

Are there any other Gnolls at all on or around amia?

The Beastmen were a carryover spawn that was never properly replaced as we scrambled in a goddamn mad dash to get something playable and presentable out to people in the day's amia was made.

True story I always intended to replace those gnolls with actual gnolls and remove the mino skin's as they are just supposed to be thicker beastmen, back in those days we had no haks or anything and had to take everything with a grain of salt. (Read: Using things that looked like other things to be those other things its why I wrote out a page and a half for each monster on their examine foldout since it also had their weaknesses more or less spelled out for the custom bosses etc.)

And judgeing by the creativity of the original designers of the server that was the server before this server (Named a city from final fantasy 3 I mean really now.) we were doing alot of scrambling to fix an awful lot of things.

Now whether or not a DM has come along and changed their backstory or what and who they are in a plot or what have you I couldnt answer but yes originally they were to be gnolls but time makes fools of us all.

Drow arcane archer: yea or nay?

Is this something unheard of in the drow society, maybe even considered somewhat heretical, or is it fine?

I'm also trying to figure out if female drow clerics could be AA's, or at least use darts and not seem awkward?

Yes, you can be a drow arcane archer on this server... Solonor grants it to the surface elves and the Eilistraens... while Selvetarm grants it to the Lolthians and evil Drow.. this is Amias solution to the mechanics of it.

Not sure if this post should be here or in the Library thread?

Eroki throws open the door to the library, his clanking armour and heavy foot steps disturbing the peaceful atmosphere and causing bookish types to look up in concern...

The Librarian rushes over to try and rid the place of this oafish and uncouth disruption to her domain, she is meet with a few quietly asked questions regarding orcish history, and giants of the north, and if they are ever known to be peaceful?

//what I am after is any information regarding the Ondonti, and the Tortured Land. Also if any giant blood can exist in humans. I have seen the forgotten realms wiki stuff, but that is all I seem to be able to find.

Trying to piece together a backstory for Eroki (or rather he is..). What are the chances this information could be found in the cordor library, or will he have to seek out other library's?

Was thinking of making a drow monk/blackguard issue is none of the gods permit LE worship. Is there any drow monk orders?

Charles1810 wrote:

Was thinking of making a drow monk/blackguard issue is none of the gods permit LE worship. Is there any drow monk orders?

You don't have to have a alignment within a god's cleric alignments to worship it. This has been said many times. There is no requirement to worship a god, only to receive boons from it.

That being said, a blackguard can get their powers from either a dark god or a contract with a servant of the lower planes. You can be drow, monk, and a blackguard just fine. You can still worship one of the UD pantheon even, it just means they likely want little to do with you as you're lawful.

There are no drow monk orders as far as I know. But it is also common knowledge that just because there isn't an example of one in lore doesn't mean there isn't or couldn't be one. Furthermore, such an absence doesn't at all say that there must be an order to a deity for there to simply be a monk that worships that deity.

Here's where perhaps i can help a bit in turn, i don't know how accurate that information is, but i stumbled upon this when i myself was researching monk orders.

Quote:

Most of the monks of the Dark Moon are human, but others include a few half-orcs, drow, tieflings, and a shade or two.

If you're looking for a monk order, Shar would most likely welcome you with open hands, although that effectively makes you a heretic if i'm not mistaken?

From the 3.5 Edition FR sourcebook "Underdark", p.180, in the entry on the drow city of Undrek'thoz.

Underdark wrote:

A new martial arts tradition has also risen in Undrek’Thoz— the Blackened Fist. Members of this order constitute an actual social class in the city in addition to the traditional priestess, wizard, merchant, and soldier classes. A monk of the Blackened Fist coats her right hand up to the forearm in pitch or henna, blotting out even the bits of shading that drow skin usually has. (This difference is notable to drow, but a character of any other race needs to make a DC 30 Spot check to even notice anything different about such a monk’s right hand.) The drow Houses all contribute young children to the order so that each can have a cadre of loyal killers who can travel through the portals to carry out assassinations. The monks of the Blackened Fist also swear allegiance at a lesser level to their order at the House of Lightless Truth, which is located in the Brundag segment.

As the lawful monastic tradition took hold in Undrek’Thoz, it colored its practitioners’ loyalties. While they can understand the lust for power, these contemplative monks often come to question their mistresses’ self-destructive pursuit of it. They tend to be circumspect in their allegiance to their fellows, because it is clear that the House Matrons will destroy them if they ever suspect that a male-dominated, lawful order might rise to challenge the traditional elite. However, the ongoing silence of Lolth offers the Blackened Fist with an opportunity that is rapidly growing too enticing to pass up.

For now, the monks are bound by their oaths to remain loyal to both their Houses and the Spider Queen. But the leaders of the order have quietly begun to sound out some of the more prominent male wizards and fighters of Undrek’Thoz about moving against the Matrons. The Blackened Fist has prepared a plan to seize control of the city and rule from the monastery, in case the opportunity actually presents itself.

The city of Undrek'thoz is located basically beneath Thay, which has a bit of IC interaction with various Amian factions, so I would imagine it's just as reasonable for a drow to have migrated to Amia from there, as from many of the other drow cities that players have cited as their places of origin.

Last edited by IronAngel on Fri, Sep 30 2011, 10:02 AM, edited 1 time in total.

According to Demihuman Deities, Lolth has Lawful Evil clergy anyhow. With no actual lore explaining their disappearance, we must assume they're still there. The new One-Step Rule is a crude generalization not to be taken as normative.

But yeah, there would probably be an uneasy tension between monks and mainstream Lolthite society. You would question your own role, and others would find every excuse to be suspicious. Sounds like a fine idea if the full complexity of the issue is represented in RP, rather than just justifying a build with some very superficial concept.

Except it's how Amia's idols are so that's how it is. Doesn't matter what a novel says.

TormakSaber wrote:

Except it's how Amia's idols are so that's how it is. Doesn't matter what a novel says.

It has always been crystal clear that the Deity System will never become normative in a lore sense, though. That was pretty much the condition on which it was introduced. Disco was unwilling to examine every possible exception and reference, so the sensible thing was to roll with the alignment list in FRCS and/or the One-Step Rule, but not to the exclusion of valid character concepts who'd just have to deal with not getting the prayer boons.

Demihuman Deities is not a novel. It is the foremost source of lore on Lolth, so taking any other source over it would be ridicilous.

If you roll a LE Drow cleric and can't bind to Lolth's idol, and get blasted with lighnting when you deity system pray to her, as far as 'I'm concerned your deity is not Lolth. End of story. And I'd stake money on not being the only DM who has that stance.

This isn't intended to be a disagreement, Tormak, but rather just a curious question:

In the LE Lolthite situation you describe, where is the cleric getting her everyday spells from, if not Lolth?

TormakSaber wrote:

If you roll a LE Drow cleric and can't bind to Lolth's idol, and get blasted with lighnting when you deity system pray to her, as far as 'I'm concerned your deity is not Lolth. End of story. And I'd stake money on not being the only DM who has that stance.

Then you're simply mistaken. The lightning is Disco's sense of humor, and one that was questioned a bit at the start. It's definetely not IC, lol. It was explicitly agreed that the introduction of the imperfect deity system would not affect the availability of lore-valid character concepts. It was a cool addition, not an additional restriction. DMs who agree with you are wrong and ignorant of the original intention. I'm glad I could set the record straight.

I had a bad feeling about the deity system from day one, and it looks like it didn't take you too long to forget what it was all about. You're letting technical convenience steamroll the nuances that make this setting worth playing. It is utterly irresponsible and contrary to the spirit of Amia and RP.

Lizzie wrote:

This isn't intended to be a disagreement, Tormak, but rather just a curious question:

In the LE Lolthite situation you describe, where is the cleric getting her everyday spells from, if not Lolth?

Not my concern but it isn't Lolth. The idol clearly states accepted divine worshipper alignments on Amia.

Quote:

Then you're simply mistaken.

Nope!

Quote:

I had a bad feeling about the deity system from day one, and it looks like it didn't take you too long to forget what it was all about. You're letting technical convenience steamroll the nuances that make this setting worth playing. It is utterly irresponsible and contrary to the spirit of Amia and RP.

Nah.

Quote:

I'm glad I could set the record straight.

You didn't.

Grasping finer points has never been your personal strong point, but this is a new low. :lol:

Sersiously, Tormak. You are wrong. If someone agrees with you, they are wrong. If you intend to enforce deity system restrictions on clerics IC, you are abusing the system and the clear conditions under which it was introduced. There's no debate here. I am right, you are wrong. Both factually and ethically. I'm not sure how you justify your authority as a keeper of historical continuity with such a selective memory.

Quote:

If you intend to enforce deity system restrictions on clerics IC,

No 'intention'. The prayer system does it for me already! It's very simple indeed. And with domains it will be enforced even more. I don't need to be right or wrong when the system spells it out for everyone already. You are right, there is no argument: You may go in game, roll a LE cleric of Lolth and tell me what happens.

I am a bit surprised you manage to post from your high horse, though I suppose laptops are magic things.

Ed: I am also surprised that March '07 -> September '11 manages to be "not long at all", though the internet does have a funny way of telling time.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

If you intend to enforce deity system restrictions on clerics IC,

No 'intention'. The prayer system does it for me already! It's very simple indeed. And with domains it will be enforced even more. I don't need to be right or wrong when the system spells it out for everyone already. You are right, there is no argument: You may go in game, roll a LE cleric of Lolth and tell me what happens.

Uh, nothing happens. I cast spells and go on about my business like any other cleric. (Unless something has been changed mechanically very recently, which would be an error and against the original agreement you have no business changing in retrospect.) Personally, I rarely even bothered registering my PCs in the system, clerics or not. Took me years to bind my main PCs to an idol, and they worked just fine. It is only if I want to use the additional boons of the Prayer System that my alignment has some bearing. This was the trade: you can play a lore-valid cleric outside the system's restrictions (a concession made because the system is incomplete), but you'd simply have to give up the fun stuff it adds to the game. The core contents of role-playing a cleric are still available.

This wouldn't be a problem at all if the deity system was completed with all possible alignments and gods. I don't understand why Lolth, for example, doesn't already have LE in her available alignments because there's no lore argument about its validity. But until the system is completed, this concession is necessary for securing the players' freedom to play out their ideas within the justified confines of the setting (not those of mechanical systems which only approximately mimic the setting).

Edit: Four and a half years is not very long. If you can't remember the debates we had about this in the Developement forum, you seriously need to start keeping notes. Disco had a huge job adding the gods in the first place, and wasn't enthusiastic about editing all of them according to some obscure lore clauses. So the sensible thing was to roll with it and just not use it as a basis for IC possibilities. But now you're trying to do exactly that.

Well, I guess we are running in circles now. To me if you can't interact with any of the divine accoutrements of your god placed within our module without exploding, then you probably aren't an accepted divine worshipper of that god. Your spells are clearly being granted by a different patron. Until the deity system is altered, if you can't bind to the idol and the reason isn't "My god's idol literally does not exist on Amia" then as far as I am concerned, you're not a divine servant of that god. Lay servant, sure, divine spellcaster? No.

Quote:

(Unless something has been changed mechanically very recently, which would be an error and against the original agreement you have no business changing in retrospect.)

Nah. We are DMs. We can change what we want when we want as we please, in retrospect and otherwise. We just changed Harper Scout and PDK to new classes entirely, we redid shifter from scratch, we are retroactively enforcing domains, we removed LA from Genasi (they are very much LA +1 in the books; I guess it was abuse to change that with no lore bearing.) we are killing free rebuilds. I am afraid you got no feet to stand on there. (luckily your horse has you covered.)

Quote:

This wouldn't be a problem at all if the deity system was completed with all possible alignments and gods.

It is exactly as complete as the current Amia setting is regarding divine worshippers' alignments. If tomorrow it is changed and LE is added then ta da I accept LE as a worshipper alignment for Lolth. If tomorrow we add CG as an alignment for Tyr then I do the same thing. Until then: No.

I think you busy yourself a bit too much with the morals and ethics and intentions and etcetcetc in this case when I don't feel anyone (you included) should be bound to a four year old opinion when times, people, rules, and servers change. After all, if we didn't, then we'd not have the entirety of Server B or the hak, or a portrait pack. hIPS would still be level 1 and Red would be the only Dragon Disciple color. I think you make a mountain of a molehill honestly and you've spent quite enough time derailing the topic with moral justifications over a spot on a 3x3 grid.

Quote:

Edit: Four and a half years is not very long

Considering Amia's only existed for 6, 7 in December, again, I guess we got quite a different timescale here. Four and a half years is quite a big chunk of 7.

Fair enough. I don't think you have business changing old decisions because I doubt you've actually reviewed the arguments presented back then and discovered new information to change the conclusion. I think you've just forgotten. But that's neither here nor there.

TormakSaber wrote:

It is exactly as complete as the current Amia setting is regarding divine worshippers' alignments. If tomorrow it is changed and LE is added then ta da I accept LE as a worshipper alignment for Lolth. If tomorrow we add CG as an alignment for Tyr then I do the same thing. Until then: No.

This I guess is the core of the issue. You're using the system as the basis for your argument, but that's kind of backwards: what is the basis of the system itself, then? Isn't it actually the lore of the Forgotten Realms? While DMs can obviously make exceptions and digressions from the setting for the purpose of their stories, there's always a reason for this. The general goal is to stay true to the shared setting that people learn about from other sources and can therefore use as material for their own stories, right? Discrepancies for no reason at all aren't really justified.

So here we have a conflict: Amia Deity System does not include LE as Lolth's alignment. Demihuman Deities does. Your solution seems to be to dismiss the latter. But since the latter is the basis of the former in the first place, shouldn't you try to make changes accordingly? You said you'd be OK with it if tomorrow the system featured LE Lolthites. But it's not like the system does that shit on its own. It's you who're responsible for approving and making such changes to the IC reality.

It's like your content with the arbitrary facts of the deity system and don't even care whether or not it agrees with the setting lore. And that's pretty frustrating, because while I don't care about your personal interests, it's pretty much the staff's job to be interested. If you don't actively want to fix the system to be in harmony with the lore, who will? We're pretty much dependant on you caring enough when presented with the evidence, because we have no power other than that of argumentation.

If you (the staff) don't care enough to make a thorough investigation and finish the sytem, I think the fair and sensible thing to do is not to consider it normative - which was the solution before. It's a dick move to say that "LE Lolthites may be OK in the FR, but our system says different for no real reason and we can't be bothered to fix it, so deal with it."

That's quite the slope you made. Careful your horse doesn't slip.

I don't understand what you mean anymore. Now it just seems you don't care about lore and are content to deal with whatever arbitrary developement technicalities dictate with no desire to do anything about it.

Granted, this is more of a Things To Change issue. I may post a request to edit the idols there later, though I'd have to go through them all for the sake of consistency.

But I just have a bad feeling that you'd say "No, that's not how it works on Amia" and then I'd have to justify it with lore arguments. Which brings us to this topic.

To dumb down my point:

TormakSaber wrote:

If tomorrow it is changed and LE is added then ta da I accept LE as a worshipper alignment for Lolth.

Then do it. Tomorrow, or even today. I did the lore work for you and am now telling you it should be done if you wish to be in keeping with the Forgotten Realms setting. But you're the one who can do it (not personally, but as a team sharing responsibilities). It's ridicilous to say you would accept it if it changed tomorrow, when in reality the initiative to that change is yours. If you don't really care one way or the other, why not go with the lore?

Eroki wrote:

Not sure if this post should be here or in the Library thread?

Eroki throws open the door to the library, his clanking armour and heavy foot steps disturbing the peaceful atmosphere and causing bookish types to look up in concern...

The Librarian rushes over to try and rid the place of this oafish and uncouth disruption to her domain, she is meet with a few quietly asked questions regarding orcish history, and giants of the north, and if they are ever known to be peaceful?

//what I am after is any information regarding the Ondonti, and the Tortured Land. Also if any giant blood can exist in humans. I have seen the forgotten realms wiki stuff, but that is all I seem to be able to find.

Trying to piece together a backstory for Eroki (or rather he is..). What are the chances this information could be found in the cordor library, or will he have to seek out other library's?

You're on dodgy ground if you're trying to turn an existing character into something fanciful. That sort of thing would require a request before creation. However, if you're looking back 50 generations or something, where theres no special power impied, eh, maybe. Why not. Easy enough to retcon.

It's perfectly possible to have Giant/Human crossbreeds. Giants are a very magical race, like Dragons, and can be safely assumed to be able to breed with all sorts. They can be peaceful, depending on breed. Storm and Cloud giants are good aligned. Stone giants are neutral. Frost and Fire giants, not so much. Giants of the north? There are very places where Giants can be specifically nailed down in geography. In the old editions, there was a place called Hartsvale, inbetween Anauroch and Coldwood, which was a peaceful giant kingdom, but that was written out by 3rd edition and it exists on no maps (apart from in the book it was detailed in). Best treated as a legend, rather than fact, I think.

There was a halfgiant character around for a long-ass time. Although she was created a fair while ago, when requests were a little more fanciful, and the player, IIRC, regrets having her so exotic, you'd probably be interested in her story. You shouldn't have to work too hard to find out about her IC. Not the best library to look in though. I'd recommend looking into that seriously, ingame, you'll likely find it very relevant and interesting.

I don't know about the other thing. Ondonti doesn't appear on the Candlekeep index, so I doubt there's a lot more than there is on the FR wiki. THat should be alright to use, the source it cites is 2nd edition, which is the best one for lore and is still applicable in Amia's timeline.

Faiths and Pantheons -- the book that came after Demihuman Deities and therefore overrides it -- says the following:

So, while, theoretically, LE -can- be added if you wish to combine both books, it's perfectly valid, within core FR lore to go strictly by the new alignments. Furthermore, it's perfectly valid for Amia to add or remove alignments to adjust it's own lore as things progress in our own version of FR.

....right anyways..

Thanks for the info guys... from what I got was only cleric, pladins, druids are restricted to the one step of their faith. Also that monk order sounds interesting n kinda in the role I was thinking. fiercely loyal to his drow house not personal power. just making sure I don't auto fall or breaking some rule or something.

Monks can't fall because they're not a divine class. Blackguards can though. So it all depends on who you're getting your Blackguard powers from and what the conditions of the agreement is.

Gunz wrote:

Monks can't fall because they're not a divine class. Blackguards can though. So it all depends on who you're getting your Blackguard powers from and what the conditions of the agreement is.

That involves dm handling correct? Would find it silly for me to make my own contract, would be biased with no hidden agenda. I know I would need one for the finish book, but is it generally accepted to have anymore less in-depth contract at level 1bg? The contract could be from any demon, devil, in this case lolth, is there other options and does the pc decide or is the call answered by anyone (dm)?

Thanks in advance

My Blackguard knowledge is minimal. I would recommend speaking with DM Shadow or ainjyll or Tormak. They're more up on the fiendish side of things and have been doing a lot of the Blackguard pact RP.

Charles1810 wrote:

....right anyways..

Thanks for the info guys... from what I got was only cleric, pladins, druids are restricted to the one step of their faith.

Yes, I think so, on the whole. There are some gods that grant powers outside the one step. For example Sune and her Paladins. Oghma and Gond allow Clerics of any alignment.

.....Just had a look at the Deity page for other oddities.

The Seelie have worshipper alignments of "Any non-evil (Faeries)", according to Monster Mythology, and that has sneaked into Amia as giving fey clerics a huge range of possible alignments. Worshipper alignments are not the same as Clergy alignments, which should be tighter. I think thats a mistake. Salandra also has a large amount of possible alignments, but her homebrewing means thats complicated.

Gunz wrote:

So, while, theoretically, LE -can- be added if you wish to combine both books, it's perfectly valid, within core FR lore to go strictly by the new alignments. Furthermore, it's perfectly valid for Amia to add or remove alignments to adjust it's own lore as things progress in our own version of FR.

LE should be added because:

1) It's just a fact that F&P is a sloppy abridged combination of the three real deity books with very little original content and loads of inconsistencies. This is something any veteran on Candlekeep can tell you, for example. I guess it's also matter of one's approach to scholarship, but I think it's pretty safe and justified to go by the rule that if something was just dropped or generalized without an actual in-setting reason, it's best to refer to the original source insofar as it doesn't cause unreasonable complications. Preferring F&P over DD is comparable to a Biblical scholar trusting the King James Bible over 4th century manuscript. When two sources give different information that doesn't conflict (that there is a temple of Lathander in Villageville, and that there is a temple of Mystra, for example), then it's probably best to accept both. Maximal inclusion with minimal retconning.

2) It's also a matter of integrity: everybody knows that the dumbing-down of D&D is a consistent marketing scheme WotC's has practiced across the transition to two new editions now. I don't see why we should let game sales affect the recorded history of a shared world. We are not their bitches, we play the game we love.

3) Third, if we think of FR like a real world existing independently (if only in imaginagtions and documents) - as I think we should - then it is obvious that what happened in history doesn't suddenly change when somebody writes a new theory about it. We have clear evidence that around the year 1360 DR, there were LE clergy of Lolth. As editions change, those real people of history don't just magically disappear. Ed himself has stated that rule changes affect the game, not the history of the setting. If we are to preserve the integrity of the setting (and our own intellectual integrity, I guess) we need to find ways of explaining contradictions in IC terms.

I fully agree with your last sentence. It's just a bad excuse in this case, where we both know the real reason isn't IC but purely OOC: I am sure Disco is happy to share the enthusiasm he had about the idea of going through four or five different books after he'd completed adding deities and alignments as they were presented in the FRCS. There hasn't been an IC progression in the Amian church of Lolth to excluding Lawful Evil clergy, and certainly not one driven purely by storytelling motives. Yours is a valid argument when somebody questions how you can enchant items with mythal crystals: because there was a story that brought it about. It's an irritating excuse when it's used to dismiss issues you just now realize are a little awkward and problematic.

So yes, I mostly agree with your post. But if we were to consider the issue on a clean slate, with no deity system or egos to dictate our bias, I'm fairly sure the conclusion would be that Lolth may also have LE clergy, unusual as they may be. And lacking any Amia-specific story reasons to the contrary, I maintain that the deity system should be updated to reflect this; something probably also true for many other gods, but until now it hasn't been a problem and I haven't bothered looking them up.

Your should would coulds mean very little. If we want to add them we will. We're sufficiently beyond "The book says so, so let's do it" at this point, so it doesn't really matter what the books or lore say. After all, in the books, Baalzebul is the Lord of the Seventh as well. Too bad the fat slug's dead here. It's very clear that if we want to alter the world on a cosmic level as well as a physical one, we're completely free to.

Gunz wrote:

My Blackguard knowledge is minimal. I would recommend speaking with DM Shadow or ainjyll or Tormak. They're more up on the fiendish side of things and have been doing a lot of the Blackguard pact RP.

Alright thanks Gunz, will wait for more info.

TormakSaber wrote:

Your should would coulds mean very little. If we want to add them we will. We're sufficiently beyond "The book says so, so let's do it" at this point, so it doesn't really matter what the books or lore say. After all, in the books, Baalzebul is the Lord of the Seventh as well. Too bad the fat slug's dead here. It's very clear that if we want to alter the world on a cosmic level as well as a physical one, we're completely free to.

Edit2: nvm this part

Edit: That is to say, I've already addressed all of this in my previous posts. If you didn't actually read them, my post if misdirected but my anger equally justified. If you did read them, then the only possibility is that you're intentionally trolling and trying to provoke me. That's against the forum code of conduct. Furthermore, this topic is meant for academic debate and scholarly fun in an imaginary context. Your banalities completely miss the point.

"If you don't agree with me, you're trolling!"

That's a bit of a silly comment, isn't it? I think we've devoted quite enough time to the question, Iron.

I will take a look at the monk~Drow thing when I get home and have the time to research it at depth.

Otherwise, my suggestion is thus: level as a monk first and go as far as you plan to with the class. Then, depending upon your character's behavior, we can look at shifting his alignment to one more in line with our 1-step rule.

I am not clear on what a person's level of education has to do with anything, Iron, and I am disappointed that you would use that kind of attack when someone disagrees with you. I am a highly educated person and while I agree with a lot of points you make, I also disagree with some, and disagreement alone does not make me uneducated.

I suggest you leave those kinds of personal insults out from the beginning rather than stating them to get a rise and then editing them out afterwards. Now get back to the purpose of this entire topic.

DustSpray101 wrote:

I will take a look at the monk~Drow thing when I get home and have the time to research it at depth.

Otherwise, my suggestion is thus: level as a monk first and go as far as you plan to with the class. Then, depending upon your character's behavior, we can look at shifting his alignment to one more in line with our 1-step rule.

Thanks will pm you my back story n stuff in he next few days.

TormakSaber wrote:

"If you don't agree with me, you're trolling!"

That's a bit of a silly comment, isn't it? I think we've devoted quite enough time to the question, Iron.

His comment is more comprehensive than you make it out to seem. If you'd actually read some of what Iron Angel and the others were saying, the evidence is right in front of you as to why LE makes sense and would be canon for Lolth worship.

The "Its not my problem, so I cant be bothered by it" mentality you seem to have on this topic doesnt really feel quite appropriate given that as Iron Angel said, you are the DM. Whether or not something gets done is at your (and the other DMs') discression. Apathy or ignorance (intentional or otherwise) isnt really included in the job description, mate. Just some food for thought.
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DustSpray101 wrote:

I will take a look at the monk~Drow thing when I get home and have the time to research it at depth.

Otherwise, my suggestion is thus: level as a monk first and go as far as you plan to with the class. Then, depending upon your character's behavior, we can look at shifting his alignment to one more in line with our 1-step rule.

See thats the kind of spirit we need. One that is more willing to invest the time to take a look at it before dismissing it. Its attitudes like this that will help further the server. The one key factor in this is the ability to have an open mind from a 'professional' perspective. Rather than allowing personal feelings or opinions get in the way. Thank you DustSpray.
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@ Yossarin - I dont think that was intended as an attack on anyone, duder. Rather it appears he was just highlighting what the topic is about. Saying that the "Banalities" are what are misplaced. He wasnt commenting on your (or anyone elses) intelligence from what I read there. But rather commenting on attitude supporting stagnation due to lack of interest being off target. At least from my impression anyway. And not making any attacks or anything, but from reading the thread I am inclined to agree with him to an extent regarding the nature of Tormak's posts on the topic of LE Lolth Worshippers. I say this regarldess of my own personal feelings as I do not really get involved in the roleplay regarding Lolth these days.

Just tossing my 2 Cents into the pot

The simple fact is, F&P is a later book than DD, and it lists the specific alignments that Lolth's clerics can be. LE is not one of them. It's extremely clear. I don't see how there can be any argument over it at all.

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