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I read on the forgotten realms wiki somewhere that in rare cases there are light-skinned and albino drow within the greyscales and blues... Is this true? Where eye color might raise some sort of alarm in an infant, how would the drow society react to something like this?

Social outcast ala tieflings? Or would they be put down, even though it's not really a defect as much as it is an abnormality. A big one, given. I was under the assumption /all/ drow were black skinned

I dont know how well an albino drow would work tbh.

Murdered at birth.

TormakSaber wrote:

Murdered at birth.

Yep. Gotta agree with Tormak on that one. Very much murdered at birth.

I assume that would be another sign of the "Elven" popping through, or is it a religious thing?

It's a birth defect that they're killed for. Same thing with humongous drow and all sorts of other birth defects.

Manhelm wrote:

I assume that would be another sign of the "Elven" popping through, or is it a religious thing?

A sign of their surface elf heritage showing through. Which is just a genetic probability, but still, they'd cull it out. That, or the mother would be suspected of sleeping around with darthiir, which doesn't present a good future for either the parent or the child.

Awesome input everyone. Thanks!

Albino drow are possible. Playing such would definately require an approved request though. As for how drow would react, there's three possibilities. Eilistraeen would likely treat the child like any other child. Vhaerunians would likely train the child as an infiltrator/spy/assassin, or kill it if they're members of a racial purist sect. Llothites would almost certainly kill the child at birth, along with the mother, though a very slim possibility of it being used as slave/spy/assassin would exist. Such are known as szarkai in drow society, I believe.

maybe if you were a kin of two surface drow, and being born on the surface and having sunlight reflected in your daily life would lighten your skin no?

Um, no. Pigmentation with African-Americans aside, the black skin on drow is also part of the magical curse. It wouldn't get lightened for any reason.

Lighter skin on drow is usually seen as a gift by Corellon to Eilistraeen drow, i believe. Or something like that. I remember reading something along those lines maybe 2 years ago. So it is probably wrong in someway or another.

It's a 4e thing, I think. When Eilistraee died, she was able to redeem all of those drow who did not carry Wendonai's taint. Their skin became dark brown like the old Dark Elves were. That's not all drow, though.

And it's only post-4e.

Gers is dead on.

Oh, and DROW + ELF = DROW OR ELF. That is all. <3

see..as a drow has white hair..red eyes and black skin...and since the black skin isnt due to pigmentations you would be....well look like a normal drow lol

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Oh, and DROW + ELF = DROW OR ELF. That is all. <3

Yes, elven blood does not work like that... you are one or the other when it comes to any elven crossbreeding... a child of a moon elf and a wood elf parent would be either a moon elf or a woold elf... not some crazy half-breed.

A bit more detail about Gers's answer to the original question...

The 3.5e sourcebook "Drow of the Underdark" has info on a thing they call Szarkai, which is defined as albino drow. It goes into a bunch of detail on how they are actually considered a blessing from Lolth, called "ghost spiders" in her honor, and are trained from birth to be super-spies who eventually get assigned to go undercover on the surface pretending to be moon elves.

But! That sourcebook is generic D&D, not Forgotten Realms, so everything in it should kind of be taken lightly.

Albino Drow? Ew.

Sounds stupid.

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Black is beautiful.

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And it's only post-4e.

Gers is dead on.

Oh, and DROW + ELF = DROW OR ELF. That is all. <3

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Yes, elven blood does not work like that... you are one or the other when it comes to any elven crossbreeding... a child of a moon elf and a wood elf parent would be either a moon elf or a woold elf... not some crazy half-breed.

Now, why is this such an 'absolute'? Its a game, make believe, not real, imagination creates these things. How can it be 'absolute' if its not real. Shouldn't or couldn't there be come creative leeway for the sake of...oh I don't know...fun?

Analog Kid wrote:

Now, why is this such an 'absolute'? Its a game, make believe, not real, imagination creates these things. How can it be 'absolute' if its not real. Shouldn't or couldn't there be come creative leeway for the sake of...oh I don't know...fun?

It's an accepted rule of the setting and race involved. There's actually a table in one of the sourcebooks that shows what can crossbreed with what, at least amongst intelligent creatures. Notably, I think dragons are the only thing that can crossbreed with literally anything, save perhaps an ooze.

because it's canon lore.

I'd love to see this. Not because I don't believe either of you, but I'm curious in general to see how other things might work.
Oh, and this sort of thing COMPLETELY goes against one of my toons ENTIRE character concept too...:/

all Albino drow have to be male bards who sounds like a girl and have a predisposition to grabing thier groin.

Analog Kid wrote:

I'd love to see this. Not because I don't believe either of you, but I'm curious in general to see how other things might work.
Oh, and this sort of thing COMPLETELY goes against one of my toons ENTIRE character concept too...:/

It's pretty much standard lore, not just for elves but for all the races with subraces (gnomes, dwarves, hin, etc). Even if its not a written rule (which it is, in Races of Faerun), it can still be logically inferred: if interbreeding between subraces produced children who were half one subrace and half another, then after centuries and millenia of interbreeding, there would be no such thing as subraces any more. The races would have long since bred out any subracial differences, in all but the most isolated or subracially pure environments.

P Three wrote:

And it's only post-4e.

Gers is dead on.

Oh, and DROW + ELF = DROW OR ELF. That is all. <3

aaaaand this is why all of Jud and Madis children are drow. Not some weird halfelf/half/human/half drow nonsense.

Shadow elves are extremely pale and live in tribes in the Underdark. Probably the closest you will get. According to Subraces, anyway.

I hate shadow elves. And snow elves. Neither one of them should exist.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

I hate shadow elves. And snow elves. Neither one of them should exist.

Shadow elves are awesome.

As for drow elf kids: was under the impression that they would all be drow? Figured the taint and whatnot would override the other-elfyness.

Gers wrote:

It's an accepted rule of the setting and race involved. There's actually a table in one of the sourcebooks that shows what can crossbreed with what, at least amongst intelligent creatures. Notably, I think dragons are the only thing that can crossbreed with literally anything, save perhaps an ooze.

Fey can breed with everything, more or less. Just as long as it's alive.

As for half-elf/half-this half-that etc etc it mainly only happens when humans breed with something else to my knowledge. That or extraplanetars. and other non standard races.

I had a list of which race can reproduce with which, but it's gone in a format wipe.

serbiris wrote:

As for drow elf kids: was under the impression that they would all be drow? Figured the taint and whatnot would override the other-elfyness.

The won't all be drow, although the Vhaeraunites that encourage breeding with other elves and even humans DO believe that the drow blood is dominant and will bring about mostly drow and higher chances of drow births in their own children even if they are not fully drow.

Gravemaskin wrote:

I had a list of which race can reproduce with which, but it's gone in a format wipe.

There is one in the BoEF if you want, Table 2-4... Although it is in the BoEF.

Analog Kid wrote:

I'd love to see this. Not because I don't believe either of you, but I'm curious in general to see how other things might work.
Oh, and this sort of thing COMPLETELY goes against one of my toons ENTIRE character concept too...:/

It's a really big part of elven lore, actually. It's also one of the driving reasons Vhaerauns regularly bring on surface elves - breeding with them has every much chance of producing an elf as it has a drow. So they'll either have more surface elves to bring under their thumb or properly increase their numbers with another drow. It's win-win, really! When it comes to drow/elf children, think of drow as being the dominant gene.

Though, I do recall hearing once that silvery hair is looked down on in Lolthite society, because silvery hair is supposed to be a sign of impure (read: surface elves) bloodline.

Same with blue eyes, Suney.
They happen, but they are noooot a good sign.

Elves+Drow=Either Elf or Drow. No exceptions. This is a DM ruling that has been around for ages. If anyone is running around with an elf that is "1/10 drow", then you need to cut that crap out right now.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Um, no. Pigmentation with African-Americans aside, the black skin on drow is also part of the magical curse. It wouldn't get lightened for any reason.

dispel magic + remove curse?
wish?

High Magic curses are considerably beyond the ability of anything short of a full circle of elven High Magi to break.

Gers wrote:

High Magic curses are considerably beyond the ability of anything short of a full circle of elven High Magi to break.

cleric spell miracle.

DM Fiat beats cleric spells.

Also its like a god curse or something.

It's High Magic from the very creator of the elves himself. No, your little cleric casting Miracle won't do it.

Oddly enough a Reincarnation spell would do the trick in making a Drow look/be something else while retaining the Drow mentality. As you are returning in a different body chosen at random... well... let's just say it could get very 'interesting' to say the least, especially when considering you could end up being a Drow trapped in a Bugbear's body. Good luck convincing a Druid to do this for you though.

Also, this path would require one hell of a request.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

It's High Magic from the very creator of the elves himself. No, your little cleric casting Miracle won't do it.

by pnp rules, miracles do all sorts of stuff... like reincarnate spell... without any material/xp components. You can raise an army from dead to continue battling, but that's with cost. You are saying that such powerful spell cannot do such thing for a single character?

No single spell can outmatch the collective might of all the elven gods no. Krasus tried once and look where it got him.

Wish/miracle is a powerful spell but nowhere near that level of power.

If your DM lets you use Wish/Miracle without serious consequences, then they aren't doing it right.

Sure you can use it to get into another body.. but now it's the body of a fish on a plate. Yay!

Gravemaskin wrote:

If your DM lets you use Wish/Miracle without serious consequences, then they aren't doing it right.

Sure you can use it to get into another body.. but now it's the body of a fish on a plate. Yay!

I was objectively referring to it, without the rp factor in it. Besides, who is stupid enough to ask your god to change your body, without telling what into? Also there is always the factor you are actually the cleric of said deity, or as a wizard you can pay/convince the entity not to screw with you.

Maias227 wrote:

No single spell can outmatch the collective might of all the elven gods no. Krasus tried once and look where it got him.

Wish/miracle is a powerful spell but nowhere near that level of power.

miracle outstands wish in every single way. you shouldn't assimilate them like that. I used to do that too.

It doesn't matter in this regard hence I lump them together. Nothing above nor besides the gods (except Ao naturally)

Regarding Miracle, you could look at it this way:

The spell is granted by your patron god, so immediately, there is divine intervention in the work. The curse upon the drow was also levied by a god and that god is a Greater Deity and creator of the elves, which at the time sort of included the drow via the ilythiiri. Corellon has no divine superior (save Ao) and so in matters regarding elves or anything about his portfolio, no one trumps him. The Seldarine almost certainly backs the curse as well, as they back Corellon, so you have a pooled divinity empowering it.

So right off the bat, you would need a patron god who is a Greater Deity to really have a contest with the power of the curse. Then, what you are effectively doing is asking your god to meddle with a very important thing that Corellon put into effect and to butt heads with the entire Seldarine. The curse isn't merely a bygone, a left over from historical grudges - it's still very current and relevant for the Seldarine; something they are paying attention to, so to speak, and would immediately notice if there was attempts to tamper with from other divine sources.

Theoretically, it's possible that if your patron was a particularly crafty and usurping type of god, they might grant it - but then they've basically consigned themselves to a grudge-match with not only Corellon, but potentially the entire Seldarine just for the attempt of your Miracle. What follower is worth that?

The tl:dr could be "What DMs say, go" but I don't think that's mutually exclusive with a more comprehensive reasoning as to why, and that's really what it boils down to, for me - your PC might be looking at it as just another spell, but your god has to worry about all the other gods they might be pissing off in the process.

A Miracle spell, in this case, would do exactly what a Miracle spell is able to do in every other case: whatever the DM allows it to do, and nothing more. That's been true since basically forever. By the very nature of the spell, resolving a Miracle requires the blessing and participation of the DM. From the text of the spell: "You don’t so much cast a miracle as request one. You state what you would like to have happen and request that your deity (or the power you pray to for spells) intercede." And the gods are, of course, played by the DMs. If you want to have a Miracle spell give the Michael Jackson treatment to your drow, then put in a request for it and see how it goes.

Lizzie wrote:

Michael Jackson treatment to your drow

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My gawd! lets forget the supernatural about this, lets just go and make some insane fella peel off all the skin of a drow and replace it with something else!

Maias227 wrote:

No single spell can outmatch the collective might of all the elven gods no. Krasus tried once and look where it got him.

Wish/miracle is a powerful spell but nowhere near that level of power.

is that really true, we all know.... Ao> all

but your elven gods still use magic thats the Weave, and Mystra can control that correct?
if so cant she basicly trump them at will if she really wanted to, given shes blocked higher level spells because of Krasus and she is one god.

so if anything would Mystra not be more powerful then all the all the elven gods because she could take thier use of arcane energies also elven high mage the class is arcane, so she could get rid of all thier powers.

Krasus = Dragon Consort to Alexstraza, the Life Binder, in Warcraft Lore. You're thinking of Karsus, also, i'm pretty sure if Mystra did something like that, Ao would intervine.

Albino drow?

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