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It 'matters', but 1 level of Ranger or Rogue would matter more.

27 wiz/1 fighter/2 rogue like a boss

Hmmm yeah good points I guess.

Now whether to resist the urge to multiclass or not D:

Nah. I played a pure level 30 wizard years ago and kicked all kinds of ass. You can't lose as an epic mage, they're just too broken and easy to play.

I love my 30 wizard.

Yeah, I'm just thinking of a 30 wiz vs 29 wiz/1 rogue or something.
Buuuuuuuuuuuut I love the idea of full 30 wiz, and that was the original plan anyways

Some final adjustments to the trapper. I'm thinking of dropping the shortbow and going for a heavy crossbow, as it somewhat fits the character better. Is it worth it combat-wise?
Plus I'll move the fifth MS level to 29 and dump my excess skillpoints into Discipline. Any last minute tips?

With Rapid Reload you'll be fine and dandy, yes. I have that combo on a rogue similar to yours and it's quite effective.

_________________ *Inactive as of November 28, 2013*

maglorine wrote:

With Rapid Reload you'll be fine and dandy, yes. I have that combo on a rogue similar to yours and it's quite effective.

But in the end of the day, Crossbows are just inferior to shortbows/longbows. Especially with rogues, since you'll miss a sneak attack every round, due to the absence of Rapid Shot. Better keep that in mind.

But Crossbows are more awesome. Because they're inferior.

jimbono1 wrote:

But Crossbows are more awesome. Because they're inferior.

And now there is an epic headgear that gives rapid reload, Rapid shot, called shot and point blank shot.

Just saying!

Claimh Solais wrote:

But in the end of the day, Crossbows are just inferior to shortbows/longbows. Especially with rogues, since you'll miss a sneak attack every round, due to the absence of Rapid Shot. Better keep that in mind.

Your point is well taken but remember it's not going to be "every round" because that minus 2 to AB on all of your attacks is going to cause you to miss at times. There are a few very good bolts around too but I agree on balance the bows work out a bit better.

Actually, the main problem is that the lack of Rapid Shot means your first flurry (ie, out of stealth) is only going to be one shot unless you're hasted, rather than two. That's a big penalty for a sneak.

Is RDD20 good for anything outside of being a mediocre barbarian? I'm going to go ahead with it, but I can't tell if there's something I'm simply missing that's obvious to it.

If you want plenty of DD levels, aim for 18 where you get your second epic feat. No need to get 20 unless you wish for 20d10 breath weapon. Other than that you wont get anything with a 20 DD a level 18 wouldn't. 15 is also a fine number to end with.

Give http://www.nwnwiki.com a peek.

There's another AC bonus at 20, but yeah, it's about what I expected. Just for the most part, it's pretty straightforward and I felt like I was overlooking something. Guess I wasn't.

I forgot the +1 AC you get at 20 :oops:

29 wizard, save up all your skillpoints until the last level that you take as a rogue. What skills do you get?

_________________ *Inactive as of November 28, 2013*

Thani wrote:

29 wizard, save up all your skillpoints until the last level that you take as a rogue. What skills do you get?

Tumble is a must-get, so put 30 points into that.
As for Use Magic Device, or UMD for short, I'm not sure if it's worth it for a wizard to put points in it. It could grant you the ability to use items that are normally limited to characters with different alignments/classes/races, but that's about it.
If you have plenty of skill points to spare, you might as well cross-class Discipline.

And that's about all I can think of from the top of my head.

Claimh Solais wrote:

Thani wrote:

29 wizard, save up all your skillpoints until the last level that you take as a rogue. What skills do you get?

Tumble is a must-get, so put 30 points into that.
As for Use Magic Device, or UMD for short, I'm not sure if it's worth it for a wizard to put points in it. It could grant you the ability to use items that are normally limited to characters with different alignments/classes/races, but that's about it.
If you have plenty of skill points to spare, you might as well cross-class Discipline.

And that's about all I can think of from the top of my head.

Then I guess its better to take a level of monk or something then? Dump Discipline and Tumble?

_________________ *Inactive as of November 28, 2013*

Thani wrote:

Then I guess its better to take a level of monk or something then? Dump Discipline and Tumble?

If you wish to ignore UMD, then.. definitely. Here's hoping your character is Lawful. :wink:

Bard gets all three. But you don't want those. You want 29 wizard / 1 ranger if you're going to multiclass. Why? Because taking that 1 ranger in epics gets you an Epic Spell Focus as the bonus feat.

Tumble isn't necessary. If a wizard's getting hit, he's doing it wrong. Discipline's useful but, again, if you're getting hit, you're doing it wrong. UMD is useful, but not crucial. The best gear you can find for wizards is stuff you can already use without it.

Arcadence wrote:

Is RDD20 good for anything outside of being a mediocre barbarian? I'm going to go ahead with it, but I can't tell if there's something I'm simply missing that's obvious to it.

You can be a mediocre barbarian with RDD20? >.>

Typically, 20 Dragon Disciple is terrible build-wise because it doesn't allow you the skills of other classes, or the ability to skill-dump in something useful. I would say, though, that the DD class is full of RP, and while you'll gimp yourself with 20 levels of it anyone who loves the RP associated and is willing to take it further should totally give it a shot. If you're looking at it without the RP factor, though, it's really just a bad build if you're looking for power.

The Really Real World has kept me away from Amia for far too long, and I want to celebrate with a new character. I've been toying with a 'tunnel-rat' kind of build to delve about the Underdark (since it's entirely new to me), and got stuck on the final epic-level choices and feats. It's a 'cornersneaking' dex build w/Epic Dodge (no stealth, no HiPS), so I'm taking 13 or 16 Rogue, and 4 or 6 Fighter. The 16 Ro/4 F/10 Other (it's a secret...) version gets me Crip Strike + ESF: Discipline OR Epic Prowess (44 AB w/+5 weapon w/o EP). The 13 Rog/6 F/11 Other version gets me ESF: Discipline and Epic Prowess, but no Crip Strike. I know it's a matter of style, but what are the general preferences and why?

The 16 Rogue/4 Fighter/10 Divine Champion version is superior.

Or 19 Rogue/6 Fighter/5 Master Scout. Both have perks.

MY version has DR 6- and immunity to sneaks...

....Oh, its a Dwarven Defender. Why are you keeping that secret?! Thats not a naughty class! I was halfway writing a post about Assassins and Blackguards!

I'd take the Crippling Strike version, and leave off ESF:Discipline. You've got the AC, Epic Dodge, and without investing in Stealth for whatever reason, plenty of gear space for +Discipline stuff.

Rogue19/DwD5/Fighter6 covers all you need from the class. Unless, of course, you feel like slapping yourself with a huge monsterdick like Uce did with his silly little bampot of an EDR III'ster Epic Dodger.

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

MY version has DR 6- and immunity to sneaks...

Only immune to sneaks if you are attacking something. If you were to duel a hipster rogue in an arena fight, you'd get stabbed anyhow.

I'd disagree. If you do it properly... no, I mean as self-hurtingly as Uce, you'll rock that dancefloor hands down. It's just a matter of who logs first.

I've got a:

-Undead Graft: Paralyze won't affect this creature.-

Anyone knows why?

It might be immune to paralyze. Not -that- rare an occurance for a creature to be immune to such.

On Amia, what has the better, or more superior selection, Daggers or Short swords? Also, Short swords are finessable by Halfling stature, right?

I was leaning toward Crip Strike, so I think I'll keep leaning. Going thru the character background, the stealth skills just didn't feel right, and I'm a bit hooked on the idea of DR 6- and Epic Dodge. I may back off to 6 DwD from 10 and nab a few more feats, but I'd also lose some saves (I was going to take all 10 DwD pre-epic to boost the Fort & Will saves). I'll post the whole build shortly and let everyone pick it apart.

...and since I'm here:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_finesse

Anubis wrote:

On Amia, what has the better, or more superior selection, Daggers or Short swords? Also, Short swords are finessable by Halfling stature, right?

Both have a nice selection and have gotten love it seems. Up to you. I fancy daggers more than shortswords, because they look awesome. Too few use daggers in my oppinion. Easy to hide and very rogue'ish.

You'll need to go for Daggers if you want to Dual Wield. Shortswords are too large for Halflings and Gnomes to carry properly in the offhand.

Thanks to you both, then! Daggers it is.

There is a craftable appearance for daggers that have quite a long blade and look sort of cool, so you can still look like you're wielding short swords. Downside is, they're part of a set, so you really need to have the matching middle piece.

But yeah, daggers are cool.

Jes wrote:

If you're looking at it without the RP factor, though, it's really just a bad build if you're looking for power.

It's basically for a more-self-absorbed-than-usual jackass who believes he's the king of everything...so it's basically for the rp. Power building to where DD is taken as the last 10 levels or for the few levels needed to get the str bonus is easy - I was simply hoping I'd be able to do something besides have yet another mediocre AB character if I went the full 20 levels.

As for being a mediocre barbarian, he's almost got the same hp and saves. Just none of the RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE. :wink:

Hate to end up chaining posts, but this felt good and I wanted an opinion before committing to it on my weekend off.

8 Fighter/2 Bard/20 RDD

16 (28) str, 12 dex, 16 (18) con, 8 wis, 14 (16) int, 8 (10) cha
Skills: Concentration, Discipline, Lore 16, Spellcraft 30, Spot, Tumble 20, UMD 20
Pre-epic Feats: Toughness, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus, WS, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, KD, IKD, Blind Fight
Epic: EWF, Armor Skin, Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical, Epic Prowess, Great Strength 1

When I think about it, taking the 20 RDD levels seems to be a very small hit for all the free shit I get as RDD, and in the end it's not that bad. I'm missing 4 BAB, but Prowess and ridiculous strength help make up for it.

I wanted an excuse to make a guy that wielded a warhammer, but morningstar is running neck and neck with it. Also not splurging to start at 17 str so I can take ESF: Spot kind of hurts, but I'm not too worried about it.

At least you can grab 20 tumble and 20 umd (if your cha is 10) with a bard level late in the pre-epic progression. You'll lose epic weapon focus sadly.

Ulir wrote:

It might be immune to paralyze. Not -that- rare an occurance for a creature to be immune to such.

yeah but the subject was an elven shifter.. with almost no gear on.
that's what confuses me.

also.. DR +5 soak 5 dmg does not stack with permonition, but once permonition is gone.. it remains amirite?

With RDD, when do you get the ability stat boosts?
Is it the same progression as on the wiki, just minus the +4 STR at 10? (so +2 STR at 2 and 4)

Dead wrote:

Ulir wrote:

It might be immune to paralyze. Not -that- rare an occurance for a creature to be immune to such.

yeah but the subject was an elven shifter.. with almost no gear on.
that's what confuses me.

also.. DR +5 soak 5 dmg does not stack with permonition, but once permonition is gone.. it remains amirite?

Aye. I heard it stacks though, buuuut would seem logical if it didn't, since it's the same type of protection. Aye, it sticks around forever.

The elf was not shifted then? They are only immune to sleep-type spells. Odd.. well, Dragon Disciple and Palemaster get immunity to paralyze. Can't think of any other class that gets it.. monk perhaps?

Naivatkal wrote:

With RDD, when do you get the ability stat boosts?
Is it the same progression as on the wiki, just minus the +4 STR at 10? (so +2 STR at 2 and 4)

+2 str at 2nd level, +2 str at 4th level, +2 con at 7th level, +2 int at 9th level, +2 cha at 10th level (on Amia).

Cool, than, that's what I figured it would logically be.
Thanks

Np, bro. *highfives*

Edit: Someone butchered the Dragon Disciple layout on nwnwiki..

Yeaaaaaah I saw that a while back.
Feels bad, bro :/

On a sneak with 10 STR, I am debating whether to take weapon spec or IKD (Take note, I wont be taking EWS either way), and also debating on Epic hide or skill mastery. I will end up with 90 or more hide with epic hide, that's not including the +15 cloak, which I don't really use, instead I get more AC, since most spotters, if dedicated will see me anyway. Suggestions, please?

Oh and he will be able to set traps, if that sways the decision at all.

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