AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I think this is a positive change.

1. there was a exploit with scrolled timestop/.
2. It was a spell that ment a "Rich" arcanist would win.
3. It was to powerful in comparision to all other end-game spells & other class abilites.

That being said, it be nice to see the wizards scoring some new spells *nods* perhaps clerics to, an with the hak implementation i know it could be done. An so many spell have been balanced maybe its time to look in that direction now ?

Yeah to be honest this would be so dramtic if so many other spells hadn't already been nerfed. I think Timestop needed a cooldown. So does Hips. But I think it's gone to far. Or give Mages another form of defence that doesn't involve ultra high AC

Mages have plenty of defensive strategies the simple one being Mords/Invisibility.

I mean hell Timestop and run-away is pretty defensive given the wizard is more than likely hasted.

Brilliant. Thats all I have to say, just perfect.

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Mages have plenty of defensive strategies the simple one being Mords/Invisibility.

Because everyone and their dog doesn't have a true seeing spell of some sort

timestop is a wasted spell slot now... especially for sorcerers.. if I am going to run why bother with TS when GS can be extended ... make me invisible to hostiles *unless it gets bugged which happens often* and gives me a speed boost that not even haste can match... so in truth an 8th circle spell trumps a 9th circle in everything except that unless you are prehasted you can cast one spell while you TS.. and the spells you can cast while TS'ed are now extremely limited.

Nex_addo wrote:

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Mages have plenty of defensive strategies the simple one being Mords/Invisibility.

Because everyone and their dog doesn't have a true seeing spell of some sort

Best defense is a good offense?

Both quotes are weak arguments for or against this either way. If you have time to shoot off a Mords, they have time to disable/kill you. At the same time, not everyone has a pseudo/faerie dragon pet. Just mostly everyone.

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Best defense is a good offense?

Speaking of weak arguments...

You have one spell. One before you get Dev'd which do you pick? Wail or perhaps dominate monster? You might get lucky. Go invisble..takes them a second to see you... time stop run away? Greater ruin, hellball any other kinda damaing attack. Cool you got them down to injured and your dead.

Sorry to be negative. I think for the most part the spell nerf was spot on. But it just went too far. Congraulations you've made a class that can longer fight in pvp by itself. And is an expert at running away...

Nex_addo wrote:

... a class that can longer fight in pvp by itself. And is an expert at running away...

That's the textbook definition of what a wizard should be.

While I'm very pleased timestop has been changed to be proper to canon (immense inertia prevents damage or change to targets caught in timestop), I cannot fathom the need to remove it from those who need it most, ie, non spellcasters. Given that timestop now works properly, who cares if a rogue or bard can cast it from a scroll and run away or not?

All this does is curb fun roleplay that is possible through 'time tricks' and the like. Not to mention, why can someone who is not a mage use the borrowed time to buff themselves as well? I fail to see any imbalance in that.

All in all, a great change, with seemingly one inexplicable fault.

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That's the textbook definition of what a wizard should be.

Great lets take NWN to Healer/DPS/Tank/Support. Cool maybe we'll get 4million players

Never said it was a strong argument. Rather the attempt to alleviate the depression with a silly quote followed by being more depressing was counter-productive.

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All in all, a great change, with seemingly one inexplicable fault.

It was that fault that brought the change... none casters abusing TS scrolls.

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That's the textbook definition of what a wizard should be.

Have you ever played pNp? There is a reason wizards and sorcerers start off extremely weak because at high level they literally control the map... with teleportation spells and summons... and then add to that their offensive capability with evocation... or go the transmutation route with tensers...

Basically in pNp I have so many more options then spam a few spells... that is my only option in NWN.

Lone Wolf wrote:

While I'm very pleased timestop has been changed to be proper to canon (immense inertia prevents damage or change to targets caught in timestop), I cannot fathom the need to remove it from those who need it most, ie, non spellcasters. Given that timestop now works properly, who cares if a rogue or bard can cast it from a scroll and run away or not?

All this does is curb fun roleplay that is possible through 'time tricks' and the like. Not to mention, why can someone who is not a mage use the borrowed time to buff themselves as well? I fail to see any imbalance in that.

All in all, a great change, with seemingly one inexplicable fault.

Agreed.

Lone Wolf wrote:

While I'm very pleased timestop has been changed to be proper to canon (immense inertia prevents damage or change to targets caught in timestop), I cannot fathom the need to remove it from those who need it most, ie, non spellcasters. Given that timestop now works properly, who cares if a rogue or bard can cast it from a scroll and run away or not?

All this does is curb fun roleplay that is possible through 'time tricks' and the like. Not to mention, why can someone who is not a mage use the borrowed time to buff themselves as well? I fail to see any imbalance in that.

All in all, a great change, with seemingly one inexplicable fault.

The fact that due to player and NwN limitations the end of a timestop would still allow the Meleeist to hit their first flurry against flatfoot AC and that it was deemed inappropriate for non-casters to maintain that ability if Casters could no-longer use damage spells whilst time was stopped.

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The fact that due to player and NwN limitations the end of a timestop would still allow the Meleeist to hit their first flurry against flatfoot AC and that it was deemed inappropriate for non-casters to maintain that ability if Casters could no-longer use damage spells whilst time was stopped.

+1

Well. There's Epic Warding for casters...
Though it can be a bit overpowered.
And it still needs at least level 31 to take it.
While some here say that caster are useless now, well...
May be you'll suggest administration to make a slightly nerfed version (like 30-40/+6 - as "improved premonition") of this to help casters defend themselves in melee?

Wizards have such immense power compared to non-casters because they can:

Remove your buffs!!
Inflict status effects!
Summon badass creatures to wail on you.
Hide and/or run.
Repeat the above steps until you are dead.

I don't think it is particularly dumb to consider the role of a class when making balance decisions. A wizard wins battles because they're smart, not because they stand in the middle of the battlefield with their arms raised to provoke their enemies. A weaponmaster wins battles because they can wonk you with a club and it'll feel like you just got hit by a tree, not because they can bend the laws of space and time at their whim and wonk you until you die.

Casters are still quite defensively sound. Folk just need to become accustomed to the buff to timestop just as they had to become accustomed to the buff to Greater Sanctuary.

Considering the nature of this thread, there's very few angry people and torches...

Cooldown was needed
not causing damages i can leave with
still has the expensive reagent makes it useless

all and all you made the best spell to throw money out to screw over your friends by casting and running off leaving them with the enemy =P

Would you like there more to be? I don't think anyone disagrees that it needed nerfing. Just to the extent it did some feel it was too extreme

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all and all you made the best spell to throw money out to screw over your friends by casting and running off leaving them with the enemy =P

pretty much!

*wizard looks at the hoard ahead of him... then his companions*

"**** this... I don't even know you people!"

*casts timestop then GS and is gone...*

Nex_addo wrote:

Would you like there more to be? I don't think anyone disagrees that it needed nerfing. Just to the extent it did some feel it was too extreme

I'm not suggesting that there should be more, I'm merely noting the sheer lack of such a lynching crowd and expressing my shock of such a revelation.

First friendly "nerf" thread ever... wow.

Also another very good point. Like Heal pots Sands of time were helping surpress inflation in Amia. Now they'll be even more gold around.

Question

Does Time stop still cost 1x Sand of time Ingredient?

Reason im asking is that this thread is to cluttered to read.

It does, yes.

Which means retreating is expensive thing now. Literally.

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Which means retreating is expensive thing now. Literally.

No just means people wont use it at all. Perhaps relying more on server rules to walk away

or just using a nice free Greater Sanctuary =P

There are however potions which can disspell GS or with some luck a well placed area effective Mords. No such thing for the new TS!

Does this work the other way around to? For example;

Guy A casts implosion,
Guy B casts timestop just after the implosion is cast
*time freezes and the implosion hits guy B just as TS activates*

Well i see a issue with meta gaming coming up can if you run off using a TS and people will just take off after you when in reality they wouldn't be aware of where you really went

yes... that.

Zaldra5 wrote:

Well i see a issue with meta gaming coming up can if you run off using a TS and people will just take off after you when in reality they wouldn't be aware of where you really went

That's no more of an issue now than it would have been pre-nerf, though. The "frozen" people could always watch the caster run off, if they wanted.

I don't think i have ever seen anyone run off under one since i have played, but now your designing the spell for this purpose and it will come up more

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That's no more of an issue now than it would have been pre-nerf, though. The "frozen" people could always watch the caster run off, if they wanted.

TormakSaber wrote:

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You are undetectable while time stop lasts.

Well there are always ways to break the rules. And as in all cases, give a polite PM explaining the situation /spell in case tge person wasn't aware/new whatever. And if all fails screenshot+DM

In my opinion the nerf is an exaggeration, mages don't need another "escaping" spell, they already have GS.

A Cool-down timer would've been enough giving the fact that the major problem that spell possessed was players abusing it by casting it multiple times not letting opponents have their turns in pvp. With a Cool-down timer this won't be a problem, and any PC who can't survive 9 seconds of "paralyze" each 10 rounds deserves to die.

P.S. I'd like a clarification on the change... are we immune to all forms of attack when we're in TS mode? Immune like the BBoD?

The changes states that people who are "frozen" are not affected by anything in the period. Immune against damage of all kinds and effects of all kinds (inlcuding mords) I would assume.

didn't TS also freeze your own spells until the duration had finished?

Not before, no.

666WaysToHell wrote:

didn't TS also freeze your own spells until the duration had finished?

Well... Actually it is, in a single player (I was playing only single campaign of NWN, and tried online version of NWN2 (where's no TS at all) only, before) at least (and I've not managed to use it on Amia so far).
It was just shooting all the spells that were casted in TS (like HW spam or several WoBs) to shoot at once when TS is over. Though, I've heard that it works different way on Amia.

wait... we cant mordz.... in TS ...

I totally understand the "no" dmg spells as the spamming and epic quicken combination was BS.

But... no mords either yikes. >.< then again it just adds more fenes, more fun to wizard dules lol

Now all that needs to go is the grip it and win it spell and mages might stop setting off the retardedly overpowered meter like every other class. Magic was by and far the poorest implemented thing bioware ever did with ~maybe~ 50% of the total spells they added actually acting like their PnP counterparts, least they didnt fuck up fireball though I can just guess during a programmers meeting some hipster wondered aloud why fireballs have to explode and cant just bounce around like fiery flubber.

Ah the death of the i-win button. I waited years.

Feonir wrote:

Now all that needs to go is the grip it and win it spell and mages might stop setting off the retardedly overpowered meter like every other class. Magic was by and far the poorest implemented thing bioware ever did with ~maybe~ 50% of the total spells they added actually acting like their PnP counterparts, least they didnt fuck up fireball though I can just guess during a programmers meeting some hipster wondered aloud why fireballs have to explode and cant just bounce around like fiery flubber.

...You say it like magic isn't actually overpowered in PnP.

i see a major downside to this.

1. Player A casts Hellball upon party B
2. Player from party B casts Timestop
3. Hellball goes *poof*

I believe what will happen is the spell is halted. Likely the effects still go off, but the damage will still be delivered to anyone still in the AoE once Time Stop ends (thereby giving the mage a chance to gtfo, which is a major boon of the spell originally).

That's how it works in PnP if I am reading correctly (and logically that makes sense).

Last edited by Simeron on Fri, Oct 21 2011, 15:06 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Been reading through the thread...

I think my first comment would be here....what did the testing show or how about we test it and see the real effects in game?

Secondly, as much as I loved being able to TS and just rain death and destruction upon my enemies, then wait for the victory dance to begin....TS did need to get nerfed.

But, I would as others have said, now remove the component requirement from it as its purely defensive and the offensive side was a very big reason to fork out the gold. You've taken a big (albeit overpowered) chunk of power from the spell so to 'balance' it on the scale of players minds, something should be given back on the negative side of things and that would be an easy one.

I mean seriously, is gold really even an issue at 20? or 30?

When you are talking people bidding 2, 3, ,4...10...million...gold...for something...

And if the component remains then GS is the cheap (read free) alternative.

As for PvP...well, wizards are and always have been, one of those classes that says:

"This fight is going to be over in 1-3 rounds of combat....that is not in question...the question is who is going to be laying on the ground dead...you or me."

Time Stop Nerf = WIN

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