I've seen some discussion about assassins, death from assassination, etc. I've always been curious to know how many people would ALLOW their characters to be assassinated. I've had 2 experiences with assassinations in-game, once as a target and once as the 'assassin'. In the 1st case, a player sent me a PM in-game and told me he had a contract for me. I was so intrigued that we sketched out a time and place and I 'allowed' my character to be assassinated. He was revived (of course), vengeance was sought, and more bloodshed insued. In the instance where I was the 'assassin' (not an assassin-class character, but that's a different story...) I took the same approach. That player was also 'flattered to be a target' (her words), and helped the process by being in the right place at the right time.

In both cases, the actual assassinations were meant to serve as 'messages' to an organization or individual, so no one got crazy by mutilating bodies, burning corpses, etc. These instances have made me want to make a character who is more active as an assassin...but I was curious how people felt in general about the approaches noted above. So:

If a player sent you a PM in-game and told you they had taken a 'contract' to assassinate you, outlined the after-effects (allowing you to screenshot against abuse), and genuinely wanted to further the RP experience...would you cooperate?

I've been asked that quite a few times actually, mainly with my druid.

My answer is always the same. "You can try"

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It's really up to the players and discussing it. Both players need to have mutual respect for each other and follow through on what they say. Example, if you said your character would be permadead upon assassination, stick to it if they get assassinated. My character actually just killed her evil lover, it was pretty tragic and a powerful ending, and wouldnt have been so if they had just popped right back up.

Can read about it here. - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60433

disclaimer: the above is solely my personal opinion and thought, not Amia enforced, endorsed or stickered.

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This is the response I would assume is 'typical'. With the PvP rules here, and the engine itself, etc., an assassination almost REQUIRES the buy-in of the target. You can't sneak up, 'hostile' someone, and start swinging. Well...you CAN, once.

I've just wondered if attempting to make an 'OOC Trusted Assassin' would be worth the effort to create. I think if it's handled in a mature manner, sticking to the letter of any and all agreements, that type of character could be a useful plot motivator. I play at such random times (due to my ridiculous job) that it's hard to make and maintain contact with a set group of players, hence the idea of this type of character. He'd be involved in the community, but wouldn't need to maintain continual contact.

Just a thought: keep the opinions coming!

P.S. Maryn, that is amazing!

I've let people assassinate my characters after getting a tell saying they wanted to try. And I've also told people that getting revenge is all good and they're free to try without warning. Sometimes people try and sometimes they don't.

I'm open to this sort of stuff so long as there's no douchebaggery going on.

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Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

Yes on certain grounds. My toon on average weekly has someone desire to kill him, and would never agree to long term ill effects for little reason. For the greater good of plots n rp like that sure, but not just casual disputes.

Also I am terrible with role-playing attacks, anyone can right click attack on me, but true assassins that study me learn my methods n use them against me my hat goes off to them.

Been the assassin as well my method was to request a dm to inform the said player someone has a contract I'm your life. Often due to nopvp rules and use limitations you likely need dm oversight anyways and that way you get to fulfil all dms inner desire to be evil!

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Lieutenant Belalad Feiwallyan

((Please take note if you PM me and you are ignored resend to me in 1-3days, it is likely due to not realizing I got mail))

Most definately yes to both being the prey and the hunter.

I think it adds spice to the game....and the fact that the "death" of the character rarely has to be perma its just making it all the more fun.

In fact, I kinda wish Krugan would be contacted about such jobs...while the common feeling is assassination is "evil" ... I don't agree that it is...assassination in itself is not evil. The motivation BEHIND it determines if it is good or evil.

Case in point, the Chosen of the Orcs quest in Cordor...you are being PAID to ASSASSINATE the Chosen of Grumbash are you not?

Yet nobody sees it as evil....

So again, if the "assassination" is within your character's story...I think it has to be looked at on an individual basis as to if its evil. But this is me....

Now, being the target can be equally fun...I think a PM telling the target that they've been marked is fine. Hopefully they will play along and not suddenly get 20 bodyguards where before they were a lone wolf....stuff like that.

And to be fair...the assassin should take the risks that if caught...they face the music of their actions which could be "death" itself...by the hands of the victim, their friends or the local authority.

This is my take on it.

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Ya see, long time ago, me father taught me somethin that be right true.
An amateur practices until they get it right. A professional practices till they can't get it wrong.
Dwarves are professionals at what we do.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

MY answer is don't bother PMing me or asking me about it, as long as you have screens of a contract from another player or some actual proof, then your fine to go ahead with it.

The problem with asking my permission is that I know your coming and so I'm not surprised as a player.

Which is why I find answers like "You can try" pointless posturing because the player requesting to make the hit has just informed the player about it so naturally the target's player is going to be ready armed with that forknowledge and not have that moment of surprise pvp adrenalin that confuses and causes misclicks and such.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

Yes, I would not have problem although I would not help the assassin to find me... he took the contract, he HAS to catch me.

This.

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Get Ready for It
Forum lurker.

Yeah, while I would agree to something like that, I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to set up a "right place, right time" scenario. Where's the fun in scripting the potentially awesome event? It'd be much better to just surprise me as much as you surprise my character. You need an IC reason for PvP, and an assassination contract is certainly an IC reason. If you get hassled OOC after randomly killing someone, simply send in the screenies, as Chris said. That counts as IC reasoning to me!

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Myself, having ran assassin PCs for a few years now between servers, there are a few things you should be aware of at all times. Call if my 'commandments' of being an assassin:

1. Do everything you can do minimize any information about your character, both IC and OOC.

I didn't even start the bio that Maryn posted until after I was discovered publicly, which alerted a large chunk of the community. Part of the difficulty in playing an assassin comes from the fact that you will be identified in public sooner or later, whether you're busted ICly (like I was) or you just assassinate enough, that eventually people will know OOC. Yes, they can't violate rules of meta-gaming, but it doesn't change the fact that they know OOC. As it's been established in topics regarding meta-gaming before, it's unconscious for people to meta-game information that they know. If everyone on the server OOCly knows you're an assassin, I'd be in shock if 90% of them didn't unintentionally meta-game you.

2. Do not ask for permission. As MoshingChris stated, if you have the legitimacy to do it, you're golden.

Adding to this would only be copy and pasting MoshingChris' points, so just refer to what he said on this commandment.

3. Be courteous to your victims.

A little reassuring tell after the assault not only keeps the victim out of frustration OOC, but it helps promote your status as a good evil-player and not a douche evil-player. Assassins are more memorable when people remember them OOCly as revered, awesome characters rather than "that douchebag who just PvP'd people left and right without rhyme or reason."

4. Never expect to gain much from an assassination other than role-play.

The assassin I once played elsewhere was apart of a league that basically said "You can perma-kill the targets we give you, but if you fail to carry out the mission, you get perma-killed." This is the most balanced system I know of assassination, but it will never happen on Amia, so I suggest you keep an optimistic outlook on how you deal with your kills. What this means is that if you assassinate someone, you best 'clean' up your mess ICly in order to negate IC-excuses to bust your character. Unfortunately, OOCly, as pointed out in point #1, you will be known by that player as an assassin. The only thing you can do is keep a stiff upper-lip and persevere. As long as you do your best to conceal your identity ICly, you do have leverage with calling anyone out if they openly meta-game you (though be sure to do it in a sincere, civil manner; no one likes to deal with whining)

5. Final rule: Be prepared to lose.

It's inevitable, you will lose, as all assassins are destined to. If they don't lose, then they're either not killing enough, only playing very sparingly, or are simply being endlessly chased by an angry mob of identifiers. Knowing ahead of time when playing an assassin role that you're going to lose one day means making every moment of the character count, for the sake of providing fun dynamics and a strong story to add to Amia's history.

Good hunting~

Several valid points, and Chris gave me what I was looking for as far as the Amian specifics are concerned. Thanks for the responses, folks. I'm feeling encouraged.

As a player, I'd love a widget I could activate that would somehow notify people that I'd like to "opt out" of the PvP warning rules.

As with my guild in game, I wouldn't actually PM the person about the assassination OOC. Just leads to meta, and ruins the awesome sudden fury of the assault.

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I'm a new Amian player. I also roleplay an assassin. But as a new player, and someone who does not mind PvP (giving and receiving) when it makes sense, I literally cannot see much a point beyond it being an RP plot-point.

I (my character) could be hired to kill you, but this is a game where death means almost nothing and you literally pop up on the spot in a few minutes (as I have experienced and understand it). I have literally bumped into people who have killed my character for seemingly trivial reasons or needless ego-stroking. So I guess what I'm saying is... why even is this thread here? Why is the term 'assassination' somehow separated from any other form of PvP?

I also cannot understand how assassination or even ambush attacks can even exist successfully as I read the PvP rules:



I'm okay with this. Some people don't want to PvP and I'm all about having fun and also helping others around me have fun (note: I do not define 'fun' by winning and only winning, losing can also be fun). But if I'm playing a professional assassin, using sneak/death attack mechanics and who's game advantage is based on surprise and not toe-to-toe (especially considering Death Attack's strict rules for use), how do I seriously mesh all those rules properly without tipping my hand and shooting myself in the foot before I've even started?

I do not know if the targeted party is someone who wants to participate in PvP unless I ask and get consent (therefore, revealing my intentions immediately), toggling hostile also tips my hand immediately, and giving anyone 'time to react' (reasonable or unreasonable) is the very definition of a bad (read: dead) assassin. The best assassins are those who are never even seen by their mark. The second you follow any of those rules, your target is likely going to be putting on their stealth-detection gear, going about daily activities buffed with you foremost on their mind, often with their finger hovering over their 'win' button (be it knockdown spam or death spell). Even if your target is a good sport and tries to consciously not to meta any of that, it's already put them into alert mode and subconsciously 'ruined the soup' of any actual honest reaction. You can't prove any of this with a screenshot, only confession - which nobody is going to give, obviously.

So I personally just so far have refrained from that large part of my character's persona in regards to PCs (NPCs don't come back with egos). Perhaps I am understanding things wrong, but enacting it in any fashion has no actual outcome to me that isn't a huge mess and headache that is worthwhile to anyone's time short of someone actually wanting to retire their character permanently with a 'bang.' (And even that has potential to ruin my character's cover.)

Not a commentary on anything, but honest actual curiousity. I do not understand why distinction between PvP and assassination matters or see a difference so far and am curious. Perhaps I am missing something somewhere?

Please note: this is not an insinuation that I am for perma-death or any severe punishments for dying. I feel such things are terrible as while they are powerful emotionally, they logically merely end up creating a stupid 'arms race' of powerbuilding and a dearth of "RP builds" and believable characters as no one likes severely losing work.

I guess it would depend how you react to a pc death. Personally once killed for the next week I function with him being injuried incapable of normal function. As well assassination attempts are generally made from people your really close with or have never met before, adding if you know your targeted icly or that random attack was a well placed attack drasticly increases personal fear.

Also when I read assassionation I often think of it more then just PvP, but the fear of the aim goal or fear of whom was behind it.

(Personal views)

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Lieutenant Belalad Feiwallyan

((Please take note if you PM me and you are ignored resend to me in 1-3days, it is likely due to not realizing I got mail))

Your approach as an assassin is based on goals that you, the player, want to accomplish. The infamous "ping-pong" PvP is an unfortunate side-effect of being directly involved in assassinating PCs as opposed to strictly NPCs (Ping-pong PvP, of course, being referred to as party A killing party B, and party B coming back for more). If your goal, as the assassin, is to get involved with PCs, then you are left with no choice but to expect potential OOC confrontations. Some people who are assassinated take it well; others do not. It's your responsibility to make sure that the ones who don't take it well OOC'ly understand that it is strictly IC, and that you, the player, are not gunning them down without a warranted IC reason.

My listed 'commandments' above served to more or less illustrate the way I roll with my own assassin PCs, though there are other ways to roll. Some people actually would rather prefer to play an assassin strictly to engage in PvM in order to reduce OOC drama with PCs. I can say, though, that if your intention is to enter PvP, as an assassin, you should take extra precautions with how you handle your character, because you will always walk the disadvantage, since you can kill another player and they will not remain dead (unless they actually give consent to staying dead, but never force that on them, let them decide on their own if they want that), while you, yourself, are now willingly informing the player (and subsequent parties involved) of your character's ill-intentions OOCly, which causes potential meta-gaming.

I can safely say that I enjoyed my last assassin's lifespan until he met his bitter end, simply because I received a lot of nods from veteran players OOC'ly, who said that his presence caused a lot of heart-aches for other characters ICly as his story unfolded. Sure, his career only lasted for a few months, but if I, as a player, can cause a series of spontaneous events of strong IC drama that entertains a chunk of the playerbase, then I'd say losing the character was worth it. In my opinions, assassins bring the most entertainment to the table, as long as you're willing to get your hands really dirty. Enjoy the dirt and wear it with pride; the dirtier your story, the more reverence you'll have when the story's complete.

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

I've seen a few ways how this went:

Way 1: The Assassin tells someone else to tell someone else to tell the target that there is a hit on his head.

Way 2: You talk to the target and inform them that they are up for a hit and then strike sometime. (Doesn't has to be today, tomorrow or next week. Just be patient)

Way 3: You just do the hit.

Way 4: You ask if and where the hit should take place and if they are ok with it. (I had that with someone once. His character was very very angry with mine and he asked if he could assassinate me. I simply replied that I'd have no problems with it but it could not be today, as I only had a few minutes left to RP and didn't want to cut it short.)

All of those ways are completely legit, safe for 3 which is borderline rulebreaking, and I am sure that anyone will happily roll with one of these ways.

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"Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong."
"I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder."

Option 2 worked fine for me, lots of rp followed and I had a great evening.

You can inform a dm instead of talking to the target at all.

I like the points DeathKnite makes, and the 'inform a DM' answer from 2 DM's is quite sufficient for me. I'm what you'd call an 'older than average' gamer, so I can be mature and soothing about sticking a shortsword in someone's gullet

I've gotten all I was looking for from this thread. Thanks to all who replied! Feel free to lock this bad boy DOWN!

You could just tell a DM you want to do a hit, and if the DM okays it just walk up to the target, hit hostile, and destroy.

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