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I was thinking the bard/ftr/AA thing, but I thought rogue would

@NC: It does sound ranger like but I'm trying to stay away from a naturey being with a dependant animal companion for now. I'm not that convinced lol.

Hey guys, happy morning..! (Well, at least for me.)

I don't want to get into too much detail on my character concept here, but I'm looking to create something dark; a deep admirer of death and chaos (But not in a cliche way!). I was thinking Assassin or Palemaster. After the whole revamp of the classes/prestige classes lately I don't really know heads or tales of it all, but I was wondering if there were any PM builds that I could reasonably have an easy time with? PM's seem so hard to round out. Of course, I'm not sure that I want to go the PM route, instead making them an assassin, which might fit more closely to the character I have in mind. I almost wish you could make a Cha-based PM or Assassin, but oh well. Anyways, since assassin was changed are there any solid, rounded builds for that? They will be a regular Human, I believe, keeping to Amia's current theme of more lore-based Elven RP and away from the squished clothing/armor models on the other races. I would not be surprised if there were builds that fit my needs in one of these build-type topics, and if anyone knows of an exact topic/page and wants to link that instead I'd appreciate it. Not trying to waste time for people. Thanks.

How about a wizard, necromancer. Fits perfectly with something dark, deep admirer of death and not a cliche.

I've been strongly considering making a Malarite pc. I'm thinking Ranger/Assassin would fit the character but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, I could sure use some help building it.

Cleric of Malar with chaos and suffering domain... I can dream.

UnderThumb wrote:

I've been strongly considering making a Malarite pc. I'm thinking Ranger/Assassin would fit the character but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, I could sure use some help building it.

Fighter6/Ranger5/Assassin19. Although I'd be in favour of Fighter6/MS5/Assassin19 personally.

Rosencrantz, Bard is imperative if you want to do that. You'll even get a bit of CHA with that. Bard20/PM10 would be the best choice, but if you want that Assassin, I guess you could try something utterly hideous like Bard10/Assassin19/PM1 or a STR-based Bard6/Assassin14/PM10. But really, please don't do it.

Fighter 6/MS 5/Assassin 19 is good and also fits both UnderThumb's and Rosencrantz's wishes.

Shitty BAB on the 6/5/19

It has 16 BAB at level 20, which is the same as nearly every sneak build.

Then Nature Sense + Epic Prowess means you end up with decent AB regardless.

It does?

5 BAB from fighter
3 BAB from MS
7 BAB from Assassin.

Only 15 BAB unless you skip Epic Weapon Spec.

You go 6 Fighter pre-epic.

I'd go 7 Fighter/5 MS/18 Assassin to pick up both 4 attacks and Epic Weapon Spec, mind.

What about 23 Ranger/5 MS/2 Fighter?

Do you recon you can pull off the 75 Preform needed for level 25 Bard song without Epic Skill focus; Preform? Or will it be a stretch?

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Curse_song Source

you finish on bard and dump into perform thats 33 + 50 = 83 without the charisma added... it's possible but it will stretch your build since you will most likely need all the perform you can get.

Mahir does this.

Has 33 base, 10 charisma, and uses epic perform gloves, then only needs 2 more. Even without epic perform, the best armor gives 8, then a belt gives 10 and other gloves give 10 and smiley gives 5, its really not yo hard using gear u would anyways.

Unless I'm going 30 levels of bard I always have considered epic skill focus perform a waste beyond RP.

33 + Cha Mod + BARD SONG bonus (14). So thats already 56/57 perform. Given the best Bard items in the game all grant perform bonus, you will easily shit in the 19/18 points.

Theres a sword and a shield in the module, readily available that will grant you a bonus to perform. Once you have lasting inspiration you just sing holding those two items, the equip your combat weapons.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't take your Bard Song skill bonus into account, unless you first use a song on yourself away from allies, then sing another song on them, since songs don't stack.

He answered that already in the last line.

Yup basically what your holding in your hands bonus should equal your bard song skill bonus. Then you sing and just switch over to your standard melee arsenal.

Oh alright, I get it now. Thanks.

Hello,

I'm a newcomer to Amia, but not a noob to the mechanics to NWN (or so I like to think). I've been having trouble on deciding what exactly I want to play, until recently, which is a pure wizard. No skill dumping classes, no rogue 2 for evasion, just wizard. Here it is:

Wizard (30), Human (Halruaan)

Str: 8
Dex: 12
Con: 16 (14) =>17
Wis: 8 (7)
Int: 18 (20) =>24
Cha: 8

01: Wiz(1): Toughness, Extend Spell, (Courteous Magocracy)
03: Wiz(3): Spell Penetration
04: Wiz(4): Int +1
05: Wiz(5): Maximize Spell
06: Wiz(6): Spell Focus: Evocation
08: Wiz(8): Int +1
09: Wiz(9): Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
10: Wiz(10): Greater Spell Penetration
12: Wiz(12): Quicken Spell, Int +1
15: Wiz(15): Silent Spell, Spell Focus: Necromancy
16: Wiz(16): Int +1
18: Wiz(18): Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
20: Wiz(20): Craft Wand, Con +1
21: Wiz(21): Epic Spell Focus: Evocation
23: Wiz(23): Epic Spell: Mummy Dust
24: Wiz(24): Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor, Con +1
26: Wiz(26): Epic Spell: Greater Ruin
27: Wiz(27): Automatic Quicken Spell I
28: Wiz(28): Con +1
29: Wiz(29): Automatic Quicken Spell II
30: Wiz(30): Automatic Quicken Spell III

Concentration (33), Lore (15)?, Spellcraft (33), Heal (33), Tumble Cross-class (15), Appraise Cross-class (15)

I chose auto-quicken because of the pvp aspect. This is not a particularly sturdy character and although I tend to avoid pvp with most of my characters it is inevitable to find yourself in an encounter or two. Thus, auto-quicken truly helps alleviate the time taken from casting. Unless there are some permanent-haste items on the server that I'm unaware of.

Second, I stopped dumping my stat increases into intelligence due to the chart (found here: Ability Modifiers) which states that for two bonus spell slots for level 9 spells occur at a 36 intelligence score, which this build can achieve if it attains +12 intelligence from assorted equipment. If this is a foolish decision, please help then haha.

I took the particular schools of focus because I have a pretty firm idea on how I want this toon to play out, however, I do want this particular wizard to be effective when casting Wail of the Banshee and Meteor Swarm or the like. My two other backups to the spell focus in necromancy was either enchantment or abjuration (due to the modifications to the abjuration feat on this particular server).

I understand that RP should be the biggest thing about building, but quite frankly if the build's not some sort of effective or survivable, I know I won't play it. Since I've never gone through this server, I didn't want him to be a dud.

If I thought too much, tell me to shut up then hah

Thank you for any input

*edit* I didn't post the exact number of skill points, I did this in kind of a hurry. Hope it's not a problem.

Updated my build. I realized that, as the concept evolved, he would not use traps given the honor code of the Kara-Tur people. I have set him up as an Air Genasi from Wang Kuo of Shou Lung in the Kara-Tur region. Set up as a patient and respectful intellectual, which an aptitude for the shadows, he's to be spun as a painter, dancer, and possibly a philosopher. Still trying to narrow down the jobs. Speaking of which, any idea for dancer?

Rogue 8/Fighter 6/SD 16

STR: 11
DEX: 19 (26)
CON: 10
WIS: 10
INT: 14
CHA: 10

Weapon Finesse, Ambidexterity, Dodge, Two-Weapon Fighting, Mobility, Weapon Focus, Blind Fight, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Critical, Great Fortitude, Weapon Specialization
Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization, Armor Skin, Epic Shadowlord, Epic Dodge, Epic Skill Focus: Hide, Epic Skill Focus: Spot

Craft Weapon 10(12), Disable Trap 33(35), Heal 16(16), Hide 33(51), Move Silently 33(41), Open Lock 19(27), Spellcraft 15(17), Spot 33(43), Tumble 30(38), UMD 25(25)

I am also debating on eliminating Disable Trap and replacing it with Search. Trying to decide whether or not he would even focus on traps at all. Disable Trap is not much of a stretch, and it would fall in line with the honor of not using them (ie eliminating the dishonorable use of them by others). I am concerned, however, that his use of sneak attacks will clash with the more honorable aspects of himself. However, I believe that in combat it is much different. It seems that Kara-Tur is based on the Han Dynasty period of China, and from my reading it appears that 'battle honor' was in a decline after the Warring States period began (about 200 years prior to the Han Dynasty era).

I'm entertaining the though of NG, and possibly Bard instead. But that seems like a bit of a stretch. Not quite sure.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Harper_scout

Quote:

Lvl BAB Saves Feats HP range
Fort Ref Will
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 bardic knowledge, bonus feat (curse song, favored enemy) 3-6
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Deneir's eye, sleep 6-12
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 cat's grace, Tymora's smile 9-18
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 eagle's splendor, Lliira's heart 12-24
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 bonus feat (curse song, favored enemy), craft harper item, invisibility 15-30

Does the Master scout (harper scout) still get the above spells and shit? like Tymora's smile, Lliira's heart etc becasue it is NOT outlined here

Artimodes wrote:

Build stuff

No need for spell penetration on a level 30 wiz, unless you wish to be able to get past those very few monks that focus on spell resistance. Mords lowers the spell resistance by 10 anyways, so you're effictively level 40 for 10 rounds. Grab some fort/ref save enhancing feats, I would recommend.

Ending at an uneven con score isn't exactly the best thing to do, especially when you are putting your acquired ability points into it. 14, 16, 18 is perfectly fine.

Automatic quicken spell I can understand on a druid or cleric, but not on a mage. You have more than enough haste/mass haste spells and if you don't pvp much, there is no need to waste four feats when you could be boosting your saves, concentration, or other things with those feats.

The int is rather low for a pure mage. 26 - 30 would be neat to boost that DC of your spells. You will also get a few more spells, although not level 9. Still, the more spells the better.

Just my oppinion, mate.

Ulir wrote:

No need for spell penetration on a level 30 wiz, unless you wish to be able to get past those very few monks that focus on spell resistance. Mords lowers the spell resistance by 10 anyways, so you're effictively level 40 for 10 rounds. Grab some fort/ref save enhancing feats, I would recommend.

The added spell pen would still assist in breaking anyone's resistance, though, yes? Epic Spell Pen effectively makes those 32 SR cloaks and suck only 24 SR.

True, with only one spell penetration feat you would have no trouble with 32 SR, but then again, if you really DO have to pvp someone, a mage would buff slightly for survival first, and the opponent would likely buff as well in the meantime. You would then PROBABLY mord the opponent to remove the protective buffs and make clear for your spells, thereby lowering resistance by 10.

Buuut, not everyone has 32 SR items (epics), and he/she isn't necessarily pvp oriented, so a 10% chance of failure without mords is perfectly alright.

But yeah, no harm in being prepared. Just saying that spending feats on spell penetration as a 30 mage isn't exactly the best choice of feats. He/she has no fort/ref boosting feats at all, which will affect his defences, even though he/she aims for high con. Sure you can mythal stuff, but it will take a full 20 fort from items to get around 35 fort, if that high at all. Then again, a clever mage will keep his/her distance, eh?

Very_Svensk wrote:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Harper_scout

Quote:

Lvl BAB Saves Feats HP range
Fort Ref Will
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 bardic knowledge, bonus feat (curse song, favored enemy) 3-6
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Deneir's eye, sleep 6-12
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 cat's grace, Tymora's smile 9-18
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 eagle's splendor, Lliira's heart 12-24
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 bonus feat (curse song, favored enemy), craft harper item, invisibility 15-30

Does the Master scout (harper scout) still get the above spells and shit? like Tymora's smile, Lliira's heart etc becasue it is NOT outlined here

They get one spell, Battle Fortitude or something.

Ulir wrote:

True, with only one spell penetration feat you would have no trouble with 32 SR, but then again, if you really DO have to pvp someone, a mage would buff slightly for survival first, and the opponent would likely buff as well in the meantime. You would then PROBABLY mord the opponent to remove the protective buffs and make clear for your spells, thereby lowering resistance by 10.

Buuut, not everyone has 32 SR items (epics), and he/she isn't necessarily pvp oriented, so a 10% chance of failure without mords is perfectly alright.

But yeah, no harm in being prepared. Just saying that spending feats on spell penetration as a 30 mage isn't exactly the best choice of feats. He/she has no fort/ref boosting feats at all, which will affect his defences, even though he/she aims for high con. Sure you can mythal stuff, but it will take a full 20 fort from items to get around 35 fort, if that high at all. Then again, a clever mage will keep his/her distance, eh?

All makes sense, course another thing to watch out for is those evil clerics with their Spell Resistance spell (eff me I love that spell) hehe. All depends on what you expect to fight!

Ulir wrote:

No need for spell penetration on a level 30 wiz, unless you wish to be able to get past those very few monks that focus on spell resistance. Mords lowers the spell resistance by 10 anyways, so you're effictively level 40 for 10 rounds. Grab some fort/ref save enhancing feats, I would recommend.

I don't see how taking lightning reflexes or great fortitude would make much of a difference on this build. From my vague understanding of mythal crafting on the server (never done it) I can easily slot fort saves buffs on whatever gear this toon would have easily (no need for any slots to be filled with ac buffs when epic mage armor does the trick), right?

Ulir wrote:

Ending at an uneven con score isn't exactly the best thing to do, especially when you are putting your acquired ability points into it. 14, 16, 18 is perfectly fine.

True, however I didn't have another place to put it. I suppose I could've just placed it on my odd wisdom score, but it didn't seem to matter much either way. Nevertheless, it's entirely moot since I've altered some of the beginning stats with the build (just started it) and I certainly won't have the problem with the odd numbered score. Good point though, should've allocated it better.

Ulir wrote:

Automatic quicken spell I can understand on a druid or cleric, but not on a mage. You have more than enough haste/mass haste spells and if you don't pvp much, there is no need to waste four feats when you could be boosting your saves, concentration, or other things with those feats.

I understand your point, but the server I originally played on, any pvp or even some cases pvm, haste was what won the day. Whoever could cast the fastest would be victorious 9/10. If this is moot here, then I'll throw that out the window

Ulir wrote:

The int is rather low for a pure mage. 26 - 30 would be neat to boost that DC of your spells. You will also get a few more spells, although not level 9. Still, the more spells the better.

True. I would certainly admit that.

Thanks very much for the input, I appreciate it

I have no interest in starting a new thread for this tiny question, so here it is, as it vaguely relates to building:

Can the glowing eyes from 20 levels of monk be overridden by another color of glowing eyes from a widget?

Bini wrote:

I have no interest in starting a new thread for this tiny question, so here it is, as it vaguely relates to building:

Can the glowing eyes from 20 levels of monk be overridden by another color of glowing eyes from a widget?

Nope. But if you get like Orange + Evil red eyes they will get...Orangered? Or Yellow eyes plus Teal eyes get ...Yellowteal?

Just a side note: Auto Quicken 3 is never a "waste" in any caster build, with the sole and only exception of a HipSing caster. It's a lifesaver that is always there and cannot be dispelled. An excellent utility in both PvM and PvP. But I do agree that it is more usefeful on a divine caster.

Innuendo wrote:

Just a side note: Auto Quicken 3 is never a "waste" in any caster build, with the sole and only exception of a HipSing caster. It's a lifesaver that is always there and cannot be dispelled. An excellent utility in both PvM and PvP. But I do agree that it is more usefeful on a divine caster.

Haste gives you 50% Movementspeed, +4AC and does the same as 3 Epic feats.

*Cough*

Try hasting yourself in the eye of a storm when you're being charged at by a bloodthirsty group of WM's, or worse; that one round to cast it means life and death. Nothing stops you from hasting yourself to gain the movespeed & AC even if you've got AQ3. There is no argument, the feat can and will save your life. You'll just have to try it to find out. I would pick it over EDK/EMD, ESF: Discipline (Or Epic Fortitude) and Hellball - any day.

... And if you're a 29th level caster, you still get Hellball to go along with it. :roll:

It's a complete waste IMHO.

Opportunity cost! Think of what you're giving up in order to be able to cast slightly quicker. 3 epic feats. And this is something that you would be able to gain from a spell that everyone takes anyway? I would never go for auto-quicken feats. That's not to say that simply quickening the sort of spells you'd use in those PVP encounters isn't worthwhile - that's viable.

It's a complete waste I- ... Echo?

Gobbledygook wrote:

That's not to say that simply quickening the sort of spells you'd use in those PVP encounters isn't worthwhile - that's viable.

Good luck quickening those Greater Sanctuaries. For the record, I used to think AQ3 was a complete waste until I met a competent spellcaster player who encouraged me to try it. I've never regretted it, least of all on Amia, where beholders are lame and you rarely get a chance to prepare yourself before an imminent PvP.

It's not a complete waste for caster clerics. I find it extremely handy. It is less handy for arcane casters, though.

I wouldn't weigh it over an epic summon (those things are pretty damn handy) but if you're not keen on anything else in epic levels it's an interesting choice. Even if it's not all that effective outside of quick-draw PvP.

Arcane casters have plenty of feats in epic anyways.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

It's not a complete waste for caster clerics. I find it extremely handy. It is less handy for arcane casters, though.

You pretty much pointed out the only good use for it.

It's viable on the typical pure-ish mage.

It's a waste on the 23 mage/x class/x class builds.

That's really the long and short of it.

Especially since you could get Auto Still 1 2 3 on the 23/x/x spellsword.

Last edited by Ulir on Wed, Mar 14 2012, 13:04 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Artimodes wrote:

About fort and ref.

With your main save being will, you will come to lack refex and fortitude a bit. You also need 12 int on your gear, and perhaps con to make you less squishy. The saves will be 35 fort with +4 con modifier, and 31 ref with no modifier. That is counting +20 fort and ref on gear, which can be tricky even with EMA, but ending on those stats is fine. Just saying that a minor boost from feats can be helpful if not wanting to get dev critted instantly, if not knocked on your butt by the lack of discipline.

Your spellcraft addition to saves will save you from full damage from evocation spells mostly I would think.

I always think it's silly (and annoying) wen people make mages able to withstand Dev Crit and such. It's a mage. They are squishy. Same with dumping a bunch of CON into them. I get the mechanics behind it, but it's silly imo.

If a mage is trapped in melee, they've clearly done something wrong. And in the end, Dev Crit is still going to get them 90% of the time.

Oh, and this:

Naivatkal wrote:

Updated my build. I realized that, as the concept evolved, he would not use traps given the honor code of the Kara-Tur people. I have set him up as an Air Genasi from Wang Kuo of Shou Lung in the Kara-Tur region. Set up as a patient and respectful intellectual, which an aptitude for the shadows, he's to be spun as a painter, dancer, and possibly a philosopher. Still trying to narrow down the jobs. Speaking of which, any idea for dancer?

Rogue 8/Fighter 6/SD 16

STR: 11
DEX: 19 (26)
CON: 10
WIS: 10
INT: 14
CHA: 10

Weapon Finesse, Ambidexterity, Dodge, Two-Weapon Fighting, Mobility, Weapon Focus, Blind Fight, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Critical, Great Fortitude, Weapon Specialization
Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization, Armor Skin, Epic Shadowlord, Epic Dodge, Epic Skill Focus: Hide, Epic Skill Focus: Spot

Craft Weapon 10(12), Disable Trap 33(35), Heal 16(16), Hide 33(51), Move Silently 33(41), Open Lock 19(27), Spellcraft 15(17), Spot 33(43), Tumble 30(38), UMD 25(25)

I am also debating on eliminating Disable Trap and replacing it with Search. Trying to decide whether or not he would even focus on traps at all. Disable Trap is not much of a stretch, and it would fall in line with the honor of not using them (ie eliminating the dishonorable use of them by others). I am concerned, however, that his use of sneak attacks will clash with the more honorable aspects of himself. However, I believe that in combat it is much different. It seems that Kara-Tur is based on the Han Dynasty period of China, and from my reading it appears that 'battle honor' was in a decline after the Warring States period began (about 200 years prior to the Han Dynasty era).

I'm entertaining the though of NG, and possibly Bard instead. But that seems like a bit of a stretch. Not quite sure.

No Discipline? Correct that pronto, mister.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

No Discipline? Correct that pronto, mister.

See?! That's why I'm still a noob XD

That aside ... I can't figure where to pull the skills from D:

fake edit:
I dropped Open Lock, since it's not necessary, and Craft Weapon since it's not that big of a deal. Revised skills:

Disable Trap 32(34), Discipline 33(33), Heal 16(16), Hide 32(50), Move Silently 32(40), Spellcraft 15(17), Spot 32(42), Tumble 30(38), UMD 25(25)

Dude no.

32 discpline

33 Hide/MS/Spot

Sheesh.

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