I have an incredibly difficult time believing you sold 9-10 items for 45k unless you purposefully chose a 5k capped shop to sell at, in which case you are purposefully misconstruing your results to give a result that you want instead of the results that actually exist. Shame on you.

If you had looked around for better places to sell your items, those ten items could still have gotten you 300k in gold. So don't lie about wat we've actually done to try to stir up dissent.



Her post is misleading, flat out lying propaganda and should be dismissed.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

...Wait what did I do?

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@Thanatopsis#6293

Made a test run yesterday. Hunted for around 90 minutes. Earned 150k in the shop. Spent around 50k in potions. 100k profit.

Sounds fair to me.

Edit: could have been around 2 hrs too... I am bad with time... but well it's approximately around that *nod*

Anyhow... by my own experience, yes of course you have some less loot and gold if you hunt in a group. But I personally also spend much less on heals and other potions in a group too.

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Now we will see max characters on party list. ^^ Sounds good. Hurray for KCs and their heal auras.

Level 4 Barbarian soloing the Kobolds *did the starter quests in cordor and wiltun and then grinded the goblins till four*...

Spent 1794 *four misty potions and one cats grace* going in came out with 2920 *1126 gold profit*... bare in mind I am keeping 3 of the 7 things I found *manta cloak/swordsmens belt/ lesser gauntlets of ogre power* if I had sold everything it would have came to 5948 *4154 profit*..

Lets say I was lucky and found a party of three and the gold was split between us for everything I would have gotten 1982 and broke even with a little profit for myself. Bare in mind if I was in a party I most likely wouldn't have had to of used all four of my misty potions nor my cats grace for insurance killing kobold priest.

Sold to Hil'rash in Cordor... for a level four who got level five doing the quest I find that acceptable.

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"It is by the holy beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning, it is by Java alone that I set my mind in motion."

I play on of the rich pc's on this server and i can safely say that my pc got a whole lot richer since this implementation.

Sadly my upkeep of potions will probably bring me down soon.
Hashim eats 1x bulls/ 1x Rhinos per 30 minutes @ 600gp each
Plus 1x mindblank(800gp), 1x bubbly(700gp), g1x ghostly (400gp) each 15 minutes.
Not to mention stoneskin(900gp), haste (300gp) andfire shield potions (900gp) on a regular basis.
This willhit him hard

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

That or you can learn to use some items IG which will make you not need half of these potions.

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The point Is that it will be harder, again, to play a non magic user because of low income and high upkeep.
And harder, Again, to be the new kid on the server since we also removed the gold drop upon monster death.

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

No one pays attention. Every single change I've made has been inflicted upon my dwarf meleeist. I have not yet suffered badly from level 1 to 10 and I'm playing a two-hander.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

Of course not. You know Amia in and outwards, like most old players, But i am not talking about you - I am talking about the new rookie players.

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

New rookie players who will, praise me, never be as spoiled as the rest of you.

I thought this was all Mosh's idea! Someone's lying!

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I'm actually starting a new character to play on and off a short while to see how he manages with a specific strategy in mind. Might be slower going but we'll see how it goes.

I really do not mind this change at all. If you notice that your build can not solo anymore because the potions cost more than what you make, perhaps it will promote group hunting again where you will need less buffs and kill monsters more quickly, and because of that the few loots less you make will fetch you still a lot more coin. In addition when it reaches the point where gold is more valuable again, because there is less of it - well then, it is one step to make the system better.

You're not reading any of my posts, are you? Here, let's use psycho's own example against you all, since you and her seem to be the poster boys for "Ugh the DMs suck".

Psycho would have made 300k in that hour, and not 45k, assuming every item she sold was to a good merchant and at the buy cap. That doesn't always happen so we'll call it 200k. Knock off a full 100k from her profit, before we even get to the math. Remember that for later.


The Stat potions are 2400 for an hour, the middle three are 8400 for an hour (I assume you refresh exactly when it runs out with no overlap, so there may be minor variances here but it averages out over time), and the final three I say you drink 60 for because they each last about 10 rounds, so it takes 60 to cover an hour. This is an egregiously high number that assumes you driink a new potion every minute on the minute for the entire hour. This will not happen so this figure is much higher than it would be.

If you add up all your potion expenses, you're at 126,000. I get such a high number by assuming you drink *60* of each of the final potions, btw. This is a potion every single minute for 60 minutes. This is actually very high because you need to account for travel time during spawns when you don't need potions, time when you're sitting and resting, time if your pot runs out mid fight and there's only 2 ccreatures left and you just don't need the Haste to kill the stupid elementals, etc. This is solely because you're soloing mind, because everything you're drinking could be covered by one friend. But we're greedy and want all the money, and we want to fight stuff we need to upkeep to do it. At the end we get 10 pieces of loot as described. We're smart and want $$$ so we find a decent merchant to sell at. He's not the best, but we've got okay Appraise and he's still a good shop. We make 200k. After potion expenses we've still made 74,000 GP, more than one and a half times the stated result of psycho.

The next time we go with go with a single caster buddy. Doesn't matter who, any of them can cover most everything admirably plus their own buffs that you can't get off a pot. You've still got some potion expenditure though, but not nearly as much ,especially on the expensive last end on the potion. We'll sya you still spend some though, so we'll quarter the potion expenditure. To 31500. you do your round and we'll say we find another 10 items. The drop chance went up, but it's only 1% so it's probably not statistically significant over the course of time. It also probably took up nowhere near as long to find these 10 items since two people will go through spawns WAY FASTER than soloing. But again, for consistency's sake we'll say it took an hour to demonstrate my point.

We make another 200k but we're splitting it 2 ways, so we each get 100k after the caps. With our reduced potion expenditure (which tbh is still pretty high: When most people party together I see basically NO potions drunk) we've made 68,500 GP. Yes, that number appears less at first glance, but remember what I said above: I've fudged the number sfor expenses UP and the numbers for profit DOWN to account for numbers which I can't quantify on a consistent basis (the increased speed at which you do spawns, the much much less spent on potions, the possibility of RP chatter slowing you down a tiny bit, the higher drop rate, etc) So in all likeihood you're making more than you are when you're soloing and you haven't used near as many resources allowing you to be in the black even further next time you want to solo.

I haven't even touched the fact that in this example you've been doing +4's purely for gold, this means you're probably also doing runs of the +5 bosses. This figure accounts not at all for finding a piece of loot you can auction and get money/items you want/actually use it yourself but the 5% is enough of a statistical outlier and not really part of the example trying to be made here.

Now, if you remember... I knocked an entire 100k off these numbers before we even started. So now in the solo example we've made 174,000 and not 74k, and in the soloing example we need to split it 2 ways, but we've made 115,600. The numbe ris less, yes, but read above etc etc.

That's certainly not 45k, and certainly plenty to work on lining your pocket with. More than enough to cover expenses anytime you have bad luck of the draw a few more times and still be floating positive. And that's for someone drinking *180 high end expensive buff potions an hour*, plus more miscellaneous ones over the hour. Most will simply not do that, and so will have a smaller potion expenditure. I solo and I certianly do not drink 60 of those potions.

Summary/tl;dr: There isn't one. Go read the post, and stop crying that the sky is falling.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

This also assumes you don't find a single item you can sell to a pc for more money than a shop offers.

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Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder

inb4 everyone become herbalist.



As it should be. You dont go out and bash the flayers. They bash you.

This system is great. Not only that it will balance the economy, but it will also make lvl 30 characters wanna team up on their way to the epic boss. You are a fighter and you dont want to spend a fortune on a single trip to the Spires? Excellent! Find a caster to support you or another figter to share the damage with you.

less loot vs less heal potions, moar people, moar RP.

Sounds like a good trade. *Ba Dum Tss!*

Math has swayed me.

Before you try to take the high road why don't you actually RP with the community.. you don't and the glade hasn't done anything in Caraigh for a very long time. There is no high road for you to take so don't try to put other players down.

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"It is by the holy beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning, it is by Java alone that I set my mind in motion."

Why dont you save your personal oppinion on me as a player and the faction im leading for either yourself or my inbox? And also why don't you read my post before making a flaming response which has nothing to do with what I have said or done.

Yes, please let's leave the personal jabs out please. That simply has no place here.

There are plenty of reasons to jab the people naysaying these changes without getting personal. And GK wasn't even naysaying.

I'm in favor of lowering the income, yup.

However, I'd rather just simply reduce the percentages, across all shops, server-wide. Instead of imposing a cap, just lower the buy-percent rate. Seems more real and IC imo, accounting for stats variations in items dropped instead of seeing 25k 25k 25k, you see... 24k 26k 22k. -and so forth. (In toolset this is mark-up and mark-down rate)

If there's certain items that just naturally are worth way more than most others in the bin... should those really be in that bin? (or exist as it currently is?) -or perhaps the person just got lucky. Either way. *shrug*

I admire the intended effort.


p.s. -and yes, personal attacks? -Not Cool.

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When good wins the day, and evil is destroyed, then the movie is over ...and you do something else.

Let's make it, not over.

Problem is, is that two items of comparable power are valued completely disproportionately by the engine, and the toolset doesn't allow for individual items in the bins to be devalued to be in line with comparable pieces. It's a quirk of the system, but you can't really let it dictate the loot you place. A cap is really the only way toi go about it, once you think about it.

Well, if that's true then...

Alriiiight. Cap it is then.

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When good wins the day, and evil is destroyed, then the movie is over ...and you do something else.

Let's make it, not over.

All I have to say.

Great change! Absolutely fantastic, have been hoping for something like this for years. Good work DM's and especially the one who did it.

Finaly money counts something.

And yes, I read only the first page because I aint interested of the concerns of people, point got clear there.


Once again, thank you!

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

Been around a while. Sunny got acceptably wealthy for a while, but the other three characters I mained during my years here have all been ridiculously broke. Not to say it wasn't completely possible to have gotten them rich. Just never saw the reason.

IMO: Just a fantastic job, Mosh. Lo and behold, we all suddenly have a reason to explore different rp routes of making money than grinding. Here's a thought. Go get a job, ya bums. There're lots of them. All over the place.

Random curiosity question. Since this is going to pretty much directly show the economic state of the surrounding area, are prices on things like the rented houses going to change, to reflect their surrounding market situation?

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You 'could' always not use the merchants and buy/sell from other PCs you know, especially with +4 loot. Some loot that'd be 3 thousand to a merchant store can be worth a few hundred thousand to a PC..

Though Loynis hasn't been effected yet. probably still wont be seeing as the only big outcome he has is his house which is 250k a month, even with the change it'd be easy to make that. A good change all in all though!

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Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.

We won't be reporting anything we do in advance of doing it with regards to these changes. Don't bother asking.

Seems a tad lenient, this. Everybody should be fighting for scraps and struggling for survival. You're adventurers, not business class tourists.

But hooray, great to see this finally implemented. Not as crippling as it could be, but a step in the right direction regardless.

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Yall just have to sell to the right things to the right people and not solo. EZ. Just think about who will buy what..and at what price. It generating more trade between players and bringing less gold into the economy from NPC's. Eventually players will lower their prices on +4 and +5 gears. It will be similar any way. People will stop hording items in tabs full of magical bags because these things will now de value over time. (but really it will be the same once time has passed) Kudos to the DMs.

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"Thou that smelled it thine own self dealt it." - Zorak

Yup well you won't really know the effect on the server environment unless you play so, go play you folks/

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

But I'm scared! Everything is so different! My cushy world is falling apart! Lament!

Oh, wait, I never had a cushy world made of godl IG. Let's get krakken >:3

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Nah, I'll wait for you to block respawning and make raise scrolls cost a week's income first. I may be waiting a while, but I'm happy to shout from the sidelines until then.

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The Hardcore server called. They want their ideas back!

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

You'll be waiting forever, so. . .seeya I guess.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

And running from monsters that explode to Yackety Sax. You forgot that hilarious part of adventuring.

People may lower prices on items, but you will also have less gold to spend on said items, so it evens out.

Now we need to add weight to gold... so people have to use BANKS!

Also, we need a plague of epic item eating dust mites... oh wait...

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Jess Incognto:- F.L.A.G. Hag
Will Forrest:- Ranger Danger

Question the stores are geared towards city size, what is faction shops being placed at?
((If it was already mentioned sorry, didn't read every post))

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Lieutenant Belalad Feiwallyan

((Please take note if you PM me and you are ignored resend to me in 1-3days, it is likely due to not realizing I got mail))

Low caps.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

This is driving people away from places that already don't see a lot of traffic. I got no problem with lowering the amount of gold on the server but its kinda sad to be a Warden when just about the only people you see in Wiltun are other Wardens and a few friends of Wardens.

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Sir Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun
Winner of the Razor Tongued Award 2015!

Kira "Penny" Sigers
Better than Boulderdash!

This isn't exactly true. There are four places I know that are high buy rates that's not the [Bleeped out for Spoilers] but people don't hang out there either. It's literally empty in those places too. Yes, it helped attract people to hang out in [Bleeped out for Spoilers] but that's it. No other places with equally high or even higher buy rates are seeing a huge boom in traffic or RP.

Amian cities being empty and having no one isn't really an unusual phenomenon. People go where there is activity. If the Wardens are active as it sounds like they are, I'm sure people will go over there if they want to RP with you guys.

Or you know rather than complain OOCly.

Do something to fix the situation in game.

You guys literally bat to the sound of your key-tap whining right?

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

Heavens forbid we express a negative opinion based on observations against something you do Mosh. How dare we whiney brats do such a thing!

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Sir Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun
Winner of the Razor Tongued Award 2015!

Kira "Penny" Sigers
Better than Boulderdash!

Except he's right. You should react in game instead of complaining on the forums.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

The hole idea to lower the gold people get from merchants is good but it is done in a wrong way i think.

We now have items of different 'power value' that cost the same thing (25k). Its like going to Cordor with a Ferrari and a Fiat to sell and get 25k for the Ferrari and 25k for the Fiat!!!

If you want to set the maximum value to an 'x' number do so but gradualy the way it was before.

If you do that, the merchants could give i think up to 50k with no problem for powerfull and rare items.

The way it is now there is no reason for someone to go adventuring at a dangerus place (unless it is for gaining personal gear of quality), they can stay at Quags and get the same coins for the loot they find there instead of going to the Abyss for instance...

Also give us RP reasons why that happened... I like the idea of Greedy Merchant Cartels that make money from the sweat of poor adventurers, but the adventurers should have a chance to do something about it.

Personaly, my fighter was pissed off IC with this situation and he still is. My wizard has barely noticed whats going on...

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Maximos the Spirit Blade Warrior.
Elan the Seeker of Knowledge.
Xionis ((pronounced Zionis) the Elven Bruce Lee?)

Because maybe some of the loot they find might actually be useful to them or to others?

Sincerely, I find it more realistic this way. In most cases, shopkeepers usually buy things of more value then what they usually can sell. Considering most of those items are stuff 99% of adventurer population will never use (like Vengeance light hammers for instance who were going for 60k and more and no one has use of them), merchants are stuck with buying those and having no one to sell them too.
It stands to reason they decided to put a cap on item prices. Only alternate idea would be one no one would like at all...

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

Greedy merchants? Please. Greedy adventurers. You were the ones demanding tens of thousands of gold from merchants for crappy epic items that no one ever actually bought from the merchants. They handed over a million times in gold what they ever received from reselling the merchandise.

There will be no IC explanation for this, but if it satisfies you, you're welcome to imagine that it is because you, the adventurers, bankrupted merchants and now they simply cannot afford to shell out as much as they used to for things that will never sell.