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Yeah I just read it, and hurried back to try and erase my question...

Thank you!

I was wandering.. what is the most viable build if I go gold dwarf paladin great smiter (and I'm talking Great Smite V - VI or something)?

I figured it would be something heavy on paladin and CoT on epic levels.. but I am not sure about the starting stats. Maybe something like:

DEX (8 - 2)
14 WIS
10 CON
16 CHA (+2 on activating subrace)
10 INT
14 STR

Then concerning the classes something like:
18 paladin / 10 CoT / 2 something..
20 paladin / 10 CoT
20 paladin / 6 CoT / 4 fighter

or even add KC to the whole brew?
20 paladin / 5 KC / 5 CoT
19 paladin / 5 KC / 6 CoT

Any ideas?

19 Paladin/10 CoT/1 Ranger for maximum amount of Great Smite + Epic Weapon Focus.

19 Paladin/10 CoT/1 Rogue for one fewer Great Smite feat but tumble dump and UMD.

19 Paladin/1 CoT pre-epic. Use all your CoT levels in epic to maximise how many Great Smite feats you can take.

I'd actually recommend going 23/6/1 Pal/Cot/Tumbledumpclass. It gets you 1 less epic feat than 19/10/1, but it gets you +5 instead of +4 out of divine favor, slightly more spellslots, and greater resistance to dispelling.

I'd also recommend going monk instead of rogue for your tumbledump class. It gets you evasion, allows you to use monk equipment (the +5 Sun Soul boots will be nice for AC, and helps get some of your dex AC back), and I don't think you'll have enough skillpoints to nab UMD. Also, sneak attacks with a standard paladin don't really mix...

Going 19/1 pre-epic gives you 1 more fort and 2 more reflex than going 20 paladin pre-epic, but really this character's saving throws will be insane anyways.

Epic Feats could look like: (4+1P+3CoT): EWF Weapon, Armor Skin, G-Cha 1, G-Smite 5

I don't think you'll have enough pre-epic feats to go KC, ... I don't think KC really goes well with a pally devcritter or great smiter.

You have plenty of skill points. You only need to max Discipline and get Tumble to 30. You can get away with even the slightest amount into UMD because you're Charisma based, and UMD is more useful in itself than either the monk equipment (which you can use anyway) and Evasion. Whether or not sneak attack mixes with paladin is a matter of opinion.

When you're creating a Great Smite character, you want your smites to do damage. It's what your character is built for. If you use up all your three smites and the enemy is still alive, then you're little more than an AC tank with no AB to speak of. Thus, a high amount of smites is optimal, meaning your epic bonus feats are very precious and should be maximised as much as possible. This is why the 19/10/1 is superior for a smiter. It will also make Smite Infidel deal 4 more damage and give you +2 saves because of the extra DC levels. While your saves are insane anyway, you still want them high as you can get them because it will allow you to wear some very powerful items that decrease saves which are normally avoided by most builds.

Knight Commander is really only suited for hybrid or Dev Crit paladins, not smiters.

Hi,

Just a query about brew potion, if a spell has an innate level of say, level 3, but a caster level of 9, is the brewed potion always created with level 9 results even if the caster who created it's spell level is lower than 9?

Also, when potion is created, how many potions are created with it, is it similar to craft wand where the player gets 50 uses?

Thanks.

Well, unless it has changed while I was looking away, the potions you create (one per spell) should always have the same duration, even if you use extend. Caster level doesn't affect the spell to my knowledge. Correct me if wrong, please.

I tested the paladin combinations and either it's been a while since I made a new character, so my building skills became rusty or there's something wrong.

At lvl 23 I think I was forced to take a feat I didn't really want.. and I managed to go only up to greater smite V. What really bothers me now is that outside those 3 smites I will have every 15 minutes.. I would be, as Sune said, tank with no AB. I tested it with a scythe and beside critical hit which is instadeath, but it happens 1/20. Now when I would smite for the first time it would land around 250 dmg.. then the side smitten drinks a heal potion and I'm down to 2 smites. The question is whether its a viable paladin as a paladin, if all he can do is 500 dmg and then turn more or less useless in a combat, beside tanking with more or less average AC.

What about KC/dev.crit. paladin? What are my options for that one?

What feats you can pick depends on the type of feat it is. If you get a feat in epic by taking DC, you need to see what the class has available to them and the prereqs for such. Same goes for paladin and other classes.

No idea about the paladin dev critter, sadly. LG and I resign.

Alas, one can try to teach me how to fish but it just isn't working for me.

I am looking for someone who is ready for a really fugly challenge for a relevel on my main character. Everyone knows that I make really gimped characters that usually come out fine in the end, but I need a revamp for sure as my character has 99 hitpoints at level 28... It’s sort of charming, and from the days before maxed-HP leveling but definitely makes her squishy.

Basically, we are looking at a relevel of a drow 21 Rogue/6 SD/1 Ranger
Starting Starts (I think, she still won't export)

Class: Rogue
Strength: 8
Dexterity: 17
Constitution: 6
Wisdom: 14
Intelligence: 18
Charisma: 16
First Feat: Skill Focus Craft Trap
Fighting Style: Stealth, traps and two kukris.

Yes, it's rough. Very rough. I would like for her to still get some rogue feats (Skill mastery, improved evasion, crippling strike)
The rest of her current feats are as follows: dodge, dual wield (Ranger), epic dodge, epic prowess, epic skill focus hide, great dexterity II, improved critical Kukri, mobility, skill focus set trap, skill focus craft trap, weapon finesse, and proficiency exotic.

The character sheet on the website says I have two weapon fighting and I think I remember taking it in the 20's but it's not on my sheet IG. I may just be blind though.

So, uh, the idea is to reshuffle levels and feats to a more logical mix! She can have more ranger or SD levels instead of rogue. I was really fixated on getting the "Epic rogue" title my first trip around.

Remember a relevel still needs to be the character, so we're not going to approve a 110% massive swap.

Of course! That's why I'm not doing a full rebuild, she'll be the same squishy, dual-kukri-swinging-trap-setting-little-sneak as before(Give or take 20 HP), and for any increases in ranger/SD I have plenty good reason both from time on the server since she hit max level as well as to cover the two year bridge I was absent for.

Primarily I'm checking options, I didn't realize just how many feats she actually does have for being built without a plan ("Oh, a level up. Yeah, this looks like it'll fit"). I'm fine keeping her the same, but I'd like to hear a few tweaks as well that some of the more build-savvy players might see as possibilities.

You could go 13 rogue/10SD/5 Ranger. (8rogue/8SD/4Ranger preepic)
This will get you an additional attack, a favored enemy: elven :twisted:

, more of the new SD boosts and you can keep most of your fancy rogue feats. (imp evasion, defensive roll, crippling strike, skill mastery) You loose sneak damage however.

My attempt at a Barbarian build

Barbarian(24), Fighter(4), Rogue(2), Human

STR: 18 (26)
DEX: 10
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 8

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Barbarian(1): Power Attack, Cleave
02: Barbarian(2)
03: Barbarian(3): Weapon Focus: Battleaxe, {Uncanny Dodge I}
04: Barbarian(4): STR+1, (STR=19)
05: Barbarian(5)
06: Barbarian(6): Knockdown
07: Barbarian(7)
08: Barbarian(8): STR+1, (STR=20)
09: Barbarian(9): Improved Critical: Battleaxe
10: Barbarian(10)
11: Barbarian(11)
12: Barbarian(12): STR+1, Blind Fight, (STR=21)
13: Barbarian(13)
14: Barbarian(14)
15: Barbarian(15): Improved Knockdown
16: Barbarian(16): STR+1, (STR=22)
17: Barbarian(17)
18: Barbarian(18): Great Cleave
19: Barbarian(19)
20: Barbarian(20): STR+1, (STR=23)
21: Fighter(1): Great Strength I, Epic Weapon Focus: Battleaxe, (STR=24)
22: Barbarian(21)
23: Barbarian(22)
24: Barbarian(23): STR+1, Terrifying Rage, (STR=25)
25: Barbarian(24): Thundering rage
26: Rogue(1):
27: Rogue(2): Overwhelming Critical: Battleaxe, {Evasion}
28: Fighter(2): STR+1, Devastating Critical: Battleaxe, (STR=26)
29: Fighter(3)
30: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Battleaxe, Epic Weapon Specialization: Battleaxe

skills:

appraise: 32
craft armor: 25
craft weapon: 24
Discipline: 41
Heal: 32
Intimidate: 29
Tumble: 30
UMD: 29

I would also like some help if possible on what gear sets I should use, thanks in advance and be gentle I don't play melee characters much

Sincerely, dev crit ain't that good for low crit threat weapon, IKD should work nicely. You'd be better getting armor skin and epic prowess, IMO.

Dead wrote:

I tested the paladin combinations and either it's been a while since I made a new character, so my building skills became rusty or there's something wrong.
At lvl 23 I think I was forced to take a feat I didn't really want.. and I managed to go only up to greater smite V. What really bothers me now is that outside those 3 smites I will have every 15 minutes...
What about KC/dev.crit. paladin? What are my options for that one?

I would drop one Great Smite V to IV and get Extended spell. And also get some taunt. You may compensate the lack of AB getting +6 to it while taunting the target. And paladins with scythe look... wrong, you apple !

You could make a barbarian 21/fighter 4/ms 5, or barbarian 24/ms 5/something 1

Just how much damage potential does one lose out on by taking 10 sd levels instead of rogue? I can't decide which is better: 15 rogue7 5 fighter7 10 SD, or 25 rogue/5 fighter. SD is very appealing because of the HiPS and especially shadow jump that would be great to have as a thief, but I am worried that my char will be crippled in pvm with only 15 rogue levels of sneak attacks. And ofcourse more skill points are nice too.

You would lose 5d6 sneak and a few feats. That is it. Defense in favor of offense. Oh, and that 5 fighter levels.. ew! Grab four, or six and get another feat.

Rogue 23/Fighter 6/Wizard 1 - A rogue with many talents, understanding of magic and his own familiar. Pick a favored school and be able to cast true strike three or such times per day.

You can get brew potion and make loads of pots for yourself even. Helps against PvStuff.

Rogue 16/Fighter 4/SD 10 - Ditching the one level of fighter for a rogue level and an additional rogue class feat.

What I have so far is a rogue 4/ fighter 4, only using ranged weapons. i would prefer to go for SD, and if the sneaking damage from 16 rogue levels and no EWS is acceptable, then sure. I'm just worried it isnt.

Imagine this - A dwarf with (ACP Kensei style) using a Light shield (The one that almost isn't visible) Then going 6fighter/5KC/19Dwarven Defender.

Inspired by Naux and toying with the toolset.

Biggest question is - Which weapon looks more HAWT? A morningstar or some kind of battleaxe?

Ulir wrote:

You would lose 5d6 sneak and a few feats. That is it. Defense in favor of offense. Oh, and that 5 fighter levels.. ew! Grab four, or six and get another feat.

Rogue 23/Fighter 6/Wizard 1 - A rogue with many talents, understanding of magic and his own familiar. Pick a favored school and be able to cast true strike three or such times per day.

You can get brew potion and make loads of pots for yourself even. Helps against PvStuff.

Rogue 16/Fighter 4/SD 10 - Ditching the one level of fighter for a rogue level and an additional rogue class feat.

Don't go 16/4/10. You either lose an attack or lose EWS. Both are bad.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Imagine this - A dwarf with (ACP Kensei style) using a Light shield (The one that almost isn't visible) Then going 6fighter/5KC/19Dwarven Defender.

Inspired by Naux and toying with the toolset.

Biggest question is - Which weapon looks more HAWT? A morningstar or some kind of battleaxe?

Shock trooper wouldn't use Knight Commander it would use Weapon Master, which means 7 Fighter 5 WM 18 DwD or probably Fighter/Barb/WM.

Are STR based Monks viable? Is the AC too low at the end? I'll have 21 Monk levels, Tumbledump, 14 Dex/Wis, Armor Skin, and possibly Dodge on this one. Will that be ok?

Also, are 4 levels of fighter exchangeable exactly with 4 levels CoT, provided you're not taking any Weapon Specialisation feats?

Strength based monks are fine.

Forgive me if this has been brought up before, my search results failed to bring up an answer to what I am about to ask.

Terrifying Rage, does it penetrate freedom of movement and mind blank?

What, if anything, protects you against it besides a high Will save?

Mindblank protects.

(avoids starting a moan thread about the damning nature of a single potion)

Thank you for your answer!

Don't moan about Mindblank killing Terrifying Rage when you can theoretically get the DC of it over 100!

I thought I said I avoided the moaning? I got the answer I wanted and I am happy with it!

Improved unarmed strike is needed for druid shapes (from animal to dragonshape) in order to avoid attack of opportunity each round in melee, right? Just making sure, so I don't pick a wrong feat.

Nwnwiki:
Equipping an item in the gloves or bracers slot has the same result of stopping the attack of opportunity incurred by unarmed attacks. This often reduces the usefulness of this feat to just serving as a prerequisite for other feats.

...Shouldn't be needed. I never had that problem with any of the shapes you mentioned.

Devs can tells me I'm wrong but last I checked, Unarmed feats of any type doesn't work with Shifter shapes because Creature Weapons are Creature Weapons. Not Unarmed. This means not only Improved Unarmed, but Improved Critical and Weapon Focus: Unarmed also wouldn't work.

Improved Unarmed Strike is not needed.

Gobbledygook wrote:

Are STR based Monks viable? Is the AC too low at the end? I'll have 21 Monk levels, Tumbledump, 14 Dex/Wis, Armor Skin, and possibly Dodge on this one. Will that be ok?

Also, are 4 levels of fighter exchangeable exactly with 4 levels CoT, provided you're not taking any Weapon Specialisation feats?

My strength monk has 54 AC with zero +5 equipment, so no, AC is not a problem.

Fighter gains a feat at level 1, CoT doesn't. CoT does not gain heavy armor for free. CoT has Fortitude and Reflex as favoured saves, Fighter only Fortitude. Concentration is a Fighter class skill; it isn't for CoT.

Tomato Sword wrote:

Devs can tells me I'm wrong but last I checked, Unarmed feats of any type doesn't work with Shifter shapes because Creature Weapons are Creature Weapons. Not Unarmed. This means not only Improved Unarmed, but Improved Critical and Weapon Focus: Unarmed also wouldn't work.

Weapon Focus and Devastating Critical do not work. Improved Critical and Overwhelming Critical does.

Thanks Sune! Will stick with fighter.

New question: Is Dodge worth taking, if you're not using a Dex build and won't be taking Mobility/etc?

That depends entirely on all your other feats.

Thanks for the input.

What's the biggest difference between...

7Monk/5KC/18Dwarven Defender
7Fighter/5KC/18Dwarven Defender

All of them will aim for Minimum AC

Looks like the ab, feats and damage.

Very_Svensk wrote:

All of them will aim for Minimum AC

Whatwhatwhy? I don't see how that offensive would compensate for the defence lost by abandoning AC. It isn't that costly and since you're already doing the tanky thing, you may as well tank to the max.

Ok, I originally started working on a Battle cleric of Clangeddin. I'm finding that my build is somewhat lacking when an equivalent Fighter can do more damage and take on more than my cleric at level 19. Either I"m playing my cleric wrong or there is a better build out there. I see Runa Steelfists build where she takes KC and Bard instead of the fighter level that I took. I do not want to copy off of Runa, but she kick ass.

I suck at build and I'm inquiring if there is a better build for a battle cleric..

Battle Cleric of Clangeddin with Strength and War Domains.
Currently level 19.

start with
str 14
dex 8
con 16
wis 16
int 10
cha 12

1 Cl
2 Cl
3 Cl->Weapon Proficiancy Exotic
4 Cl->wis +1
5 Cl
6 Cl->two-Weapon Fighting
7 Cl
8 Cl->Wis +1
9 Cl->spell focus: Evocation
10 F ->Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe
11 F ->Imporoved Critical: Dwarvne Waraxe
12 F -> Combat Casting WIS +1
13 F -> Weapon Specialization: Dwarven Waraxe
14 F
15 F -> Powerb Attack, Cleave
16 Cl-> Wis +1
17 Cl
18 Cl->Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
19 Cl
-------------------------------------------------
20 Cl->Wis +1
21 Cl->Armor Skin
22 Cl
23 cl
24 Cl->Wis +1, Epic Spell Focus Evocation
25 Cl
26 Cl
27 Cl-> Improved Combat Casting
28 Cl-> Wis +1
29 cl-> Great Wisdom
30 Cl-> Epic Weapon Focus:Dwarven Waraxe

ending stats.
str 14
dex 8
con 16
wis 24
int 10
cha 12

Last edited by NAUX on Wed, Mar 28 2012, 21:24 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

All of them will aim for Minimum AC

Whatwhatwhy? I don't see how that offensive would compensate for the defence lost by abandoning AC. It isn't that costly and since you're already doing the tanky thing, you may as well tank to the max.

He's hooked on my foehammer/shock trooper concept

There is method in the madness of having a low AC. Svensk go for the fighter varient with a whip and improved disarm for concepts sake! (The whip can be crafted to look like a chained hook)

Now, this may not be the best advice, but on your next three attribute ups, take STR instead lose improved combat casting and take a greater STR, possibly even lose epic evo for epic mummy dust and choose a summon that fits your character with the summoning scroll. Unless you're going epic evo for RP.

Other people may have better advice than me, so wait a while before taking mine.

Does Master Scout speed bonus in wilderness stack with Barbarian or Monk speed? D:

I think it does stack with barbarian, as Kyrtaar moves far more quickly than unmodified-speed characters whilst hunting. I haven't actually tested that it is 20% though... I'm too lazy to find a level 6 monk to race.

So I'm a terrible builder, I won't pretend to know the first thing about building a character. I have build monkey friends who I tell them the character I want and how I want their personality and such to be, but they made the mistake of just giving me "this pre-epic, this epic, this #/#/# spread of these classes". Well on my Rogue/SD/Fighter, as RP went on I really didn't like those fighter levels because it didn't fit her RP at all and they've just been annoying me.

So my friend took a look at my build that I had done feat choices wise and told me that I completely botched it anyways and I was supposed to take weapon focus, which I didn't want because it didn't make sense because she didn't use one particular weapon anyways so after talking with them for a while and with past-RP between my character and his we started bouncing ideas off, but the only thing is, as I've proven, I'm terrible with BAB calculation and bonus feats and requirements for later feats and when to take feats required for my prestige classes and what have you.

So basically I've decided, through RP (kind of old RP since I've been in-active since January), that I'd like to either go Rogue/SD/Ranger 19/6/5, Rogue/SD/MS or full rogue/SD something like 20/10

I would especially like the Ranger and MS build versions if you can figure out how to make it work because those fit where she's already tending to through RP the Rogue/SD I know how to build and I would like that RP too because she does have a lot of interest in the Shadow Plane..

Starting stats:
Lightfoot Hin
Follower of Brandobaris
Str: 12
Dex: 18
Con: 10
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom: 8
Charisma: 10

Either:

Rogue 19 / SD 6 / MS 5 = Rogue 16 / SD 4 pre-epic

or

Rogue 15 / SD 10 / MS 5 = Rogue 12 / SD 8 pre-epic

You'll need Dodge, Mobility, Skill Focus: Spot, Skill Focus: Listen at the bare minimum for class entry. After that, I would suggest Weapon Focus (though you say it doesn't fit), Improved Critical (same as WF?), Blind Fight (a must, really, even without Weapon Focus).

If you go with the first build, make sure you take Improved Evasion at Rogue 10. Defensive Roll is free on SD 5. This lets you get Epic Dodge with your 30 Tumble and 25 Dex.

I'd suggest all 5 MS levels in epics because it's just better.

Depends really. Taking four master scout in pre-epic could work in truth to your advantage because of its superior Fort saves over Rogues/SD's. Taking the master scout feat as Great Fort would also be a step in the correct direction. By doing it that way you basically net the bonus of taking Epic Fort + 1. Arguable maybe.

and what if I took the ranger levels, would they pretty much just be in place of the fighter? 4 pre-epic one in epic.

Both classes fit her RP well and I'd like to have an idea for both just on the off chance she starts leaning toward one or the other. Favored Enemy is very nice for her as well since she despises any vermin big enough to cause a threat to goodly folk and she's well known for it, but it's obviously not required for RP, would just be a nice RP tool if it can be worked.

I

I am not a fan of Rogue/SD/MS. Only three attacks per round, and no shield proficiency. No room for IKD with Master Scout feats, either.

That said, I'm not a huge fan of Rogue Ranger SD, either. Oh well.

Still, I'd personally recommend 19 Rogue 5 Ranger 6 SD. 12 Rogue/4 Ranger/4 SD pre-epic, with Ranger as your last level using its bonus feat for Epic Weapon Focus (or Epic Prowess, if you're still insisting on the no specialty weapon thing). Dodge, Mobility, Blind-Fight, IKD, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus. You're one feat short for Improved Critical, which is one of my larger annoyances with the sneaker build without Fighter or CoT levels.

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