Just because I am the devil's advocate I am going to ask a question,

"Can one solo as their primary means of leveling and still be a good roleplayer?"

It would seem from the things I read on this forum and the last debated topic of resurrection in the lobby that the general consensus is no. I would just like to say that I only rarely party with other characters when "leveling" for a variety of reasons, yet I like to think of myself as a competent roleplayer, maybe even a bit more than competent. I find that I often make IC relationships that span across levels since for me the primary drive in a bond is less a group to "go kill stuff with" (ugh hate that mentality) and more to find other characters that share the same interests, race, and ideals (usually) as my own. This alone gives me the flexibility to roleplay what -I- would like to roleplay about and avoid unnecessary conflict that I would think my character would wish to avoid IC'ly.

Despite the common census I am going to have to break from the herd here and claim that usually the bigger a party gets the less and less roleplay there is and generally what roleplay there is lessens in quality. It seems that for half the players stopping to rp during "grinding" comes off to them as "chatter" and literally within in minutes (read 2-5) they become bored and I often feel hostile. I truely think some of the best "adventuring" roleplay comes in pairs and can last up to four tightly bond players, otherwise it devolves into argument or head scratching over whose "loot" it is.

Now I have greatly enjoyed my time on Amia and am very grateful for all our players and DM's that put so much into this world, but there does seem to be a big gap between "roleplayers" and "rollplayers".. not to open up that old can of worms. Hence I often find myself traveling alone and hanging about towns looking for "pick up" roleplay with people despite their levels which I find much more rewarding than running in circles around FoD, Minotaurs, and Illithids where my rp is largely ignored or reacted to as distracting.

In conclusion what I am trying to say is that the assumption of an improvement of roleplay by enforcing a doctrine that parties make better roleplay is not incorrect, but a flawed perception. Cultivating personalities that are more conducive to roleplay and nuturing that is much more important, and unfortunately much more in the players' hands than the dms.

Thanks guys, you are all great.

I tend to agree with you the best roleplaying experiences I have had while on this server the short time I have been here has been with 2 to 3 charachters here latley Karrina a cleric of illmater has been my boon companion and we have had many valiant gloriuse battles and side line rp sessions together over the past couple of weeks. When its just me and her or mabey one other and they know who they are and have been great also, we get the oppurtunity to rp while in the midst of fighting as there is not the rush to just level and loot and all the headache as you say that comes along with it. It has so far been a blast and I look foward to many more interesting and fun nights Karrinas player is the bomb diggity and a good friend in the making Peace love and God to all those who are my friends you know who you are.

Squire Thomas Mason Sworn Champion of Torm

I think I'd agree with most of what you said. Personally, I prefer to sort out loot OOC, because I don't think "roleplaying loot division" is any more fun than bookkeeping. Usually a quick "let's just take turns" and then sort out divided loot OOC lets us focus on having fun. Past that, I love to keep it in character and really play off our surroundings.

I've only been with the server a short while (after a LONG break) and I've been surprised at what I've met with in parties. In the past two weeks I've been told:
"I don't roleplay in parties."
"Stop all the OOC!" (while trying to sort looting, and the player then went on to ignore my RP attempts)
"Stop wasting everyone's time."

I've also been dropped from a group more than once when our group stumbled upon some RP and everyone but me ran past. Once was in the kobold caves when we caught up to another adventurer, and another time was during the spiders. It was utterly ridiculous.

I don't know if I agree that larger parties mean less RP, because I've always had the most fun roleplaying with a group of like-minded roleplayers on the hunt. I think that larger parties increase the odds of you finding a player who simply doesn't care about roleplaying- and that always leads to friction.

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Yes.

Good RP and solo leveling are not mutually exclusive. Though, it is also important to remember that while you are on the server you are RP'ing. So, just as with RL, there are people who work best in groups and people who work best alone. So, before judging a character or player on their preference for solo'ing, take a look into the character. Maybe it has a hard time in groups, maybe it's anti-social, maybe.... just maybe... it's an integral part of the character's psyche and something that could lead to interesting RP if not just written off as another vanilla, flat character of a dirty powergamer.

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"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III

Haha yes I have encountered so much of that. Its a bit disheatening, but I really do try to give people the benefit of the doubt (and to avoid being labeled as elitist, which despite the haughtiness of some of my characters I myself am personally not). I am also not one of these people that think there is an irredeemable line between the two groups, I'd just like to see a bit more of a push to the center so to speak. I feel like alot of good role players sell themselves short because when a group of 4+ get together they don't want to waste the opportunity to get the good loot rolls or to let their all important buffs fade, but also at the same time fail to see they are losing the opportunity to let their role play shine.

I honestly feel that nearly every player with nearly any character has an opportunity for a good conversation, one just has to find the topic and common ground, unfortunately they and their peers are so often driven away by an insatiable need for that next level that we never get a chance to discover anything about each other, and thus get that opportunity.

Life, even a fantasy pretend one, is a journey, not a destination. *chuckle* And how many of these players then talk to me in tells about how bored they are with their ecl 30's, only to repeat the cycle with a new char. You are not looking for a build, you are looking for purpose. It's nearly kharmic ha. If only the roleplay forums had half the love that "Teach a Man to Fish" has.

I tend to solo more as a means to vent after a long day or just because I'm a bit of a loner by definition. When partying I prefer small groups, especially those brought together by some RP reason and not by some random urge to "kill some stuff and get rich".
You can definitely be a good rp'er and solo a lot. Just as you can be a below average rp'er and party a lot. From my experience, people tend to switch to OOC mode once they party, especially when they're doing their 10000th run in an area. Not much you can do when you've walked past the same spot 50 times during the last hour.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not fond of hunting in groups. Constant AFKs, people getting in the way or otherwise generally failing make an already tedious activity absolutely dreadful. Some of those problems would be fine if they can be handled IC, but it's very rare to encounter a player that doesn't take IC ranting personally when it comes to combat performance, so I prefer to go it alone or with a single other person.

This, and I'm not good when trying to coordinate, so I end up hurting my party more than helping. >.>

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

Huh. Well, I tend to be very choosey about which parties I join. I'm just not good with strangers on an OOC level, and it can stress me out pretty easily. The way I meet new people IG is usually by hanging out with someone I know who brings others along, or running into folks in the field interested in teaming up. If they're jerks, I can cling to the person I know with either IC chatter or whatever. If they turn out to be cool then mid-combat/between-battle chatter often happens, and that's usually fun. It works out pretty well for me, and I doubt I'm the only one. I'm not fond of the clique mentality as a rule but knowing who I can rely on is a big help for me (and it helps that I can remember almost everyone I have ever roleplayed with ever, and their characters, and when they get a new character, and when they seem to drop a character... I hope I'm not the only one who does this).

That said, I do tend to get a little focused on leveling in parties of 4+, and I can't stand hunting in groups of 2 or less. My builds/gameplay just aren't robust enough. So when I happen to get a large party I do tend to try and make the most out of it, and the combat is actually fun for me then. Still, I try to be accomodating of people who want to you know, actually roleplay.

Edit: I rambled a bit because I'm tired, so to summarise: I do okay for roleplay in larger groups, partly because I'm a little picky about who I actually party with, but I admit I often push the party to fight on (gently) because I actually like hunting in large groups.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

We have the roleplay praise thread but nobody really goes into great detail about what was so good about the roleplaying. It is difficult enough to cast your mind back to the roleplaying that inspired the post, but pinning down what exactly you did right is kind of tricky.

Also, there is no single topic devoted to asking questions about improving roleplay techniques in the same fashion as the build topic. It's all kind of left to chance that someone will develop these as they go.

Some of you may be wondering, what do I have to gain by improving my roleplaying?

The short answer is that it's more fun for everyone if you do.

The long answer is that you keep everyone interested for longer if you're constantly inventing newer and better material. Although you can just live in the moment and improvise on the spot, there is no harm in thinking about the sort of situations you would like to encounter and then finding a way to engineer them. You're more likely to have a successful walk-up RP if you have an idea that you've been dying to use but have no clue how it will fly, rather than just walking up and expecting them to be a font of cool and interesting RP.

I think one of the reasons why hunting RP dies prematurely is because there's too many people who haven't brought an interesting tale to share, a half-dozen jokes, or the latest gossip. You could easily have an attentive party of six if they all came with the intention of trying out new material on hunting parties, even if they don't actually get a chance.

The intention is not to take vast amounts of time away from the monster-killing bit, but to leave everyone with a smile at the new funny you just told them. Or groaning at that one that's as old as the hills. So that when next there is an intermission, you don't have players complaining of boredom or telling you to shut up. Because let's face it, grinding monsters is tedious. You may get a little fun out of the 10000th run through an area hacking things up, but you'll get a lot more fun out of the people that you brought with you.

It seems like the misconception on the forms is that you are either a role-player, or a powerbuild grinder piece of shit. Most people tend to see things in sharp contrast, and it's unfortunate. Nobody should be so anal about how other people enjoy the game, just as long as they have fun and no rules are broken. One thing I know for sure, is that you can't really enforce role-play.

I like to role-play, and I role-play as much as I grind. I have fun grinding for the most part when I am in the mood, and I can also find some rp sessions dreadfully boreing. I think this problem has to do more with how valueable a player's time is to be honest. This game requires lots of free time in my opinion in order to cultivate a well-knit group in-game who can interact with eachother on a frequent basis, and some people just don't have that much time. Also, maxed out characters begin to fade away after a while for several reasons, and new characters are made. I would like to see more people playing fewer characters, and sticking to their maxed characters, but I understand the urge to start at the beginning again with something new. The journey is often more fun than the destination, but it makes more sense to saturate one character with attention than five.

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Just play your own game instead of judging others because of how they spend their time on the server.

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I was not trying to judge people, I was simply making observations. That being said this is a roleplay server, so it is disheartening when I have trouble finding people to roleplay with because they are all "grinding" and then when I attempt to roleplay whilst "grinding" it invites hostility. I'm really pretty sure no one was really making any hard judgement thus far, no need to be banal. But you are right, I play my own style, but no man is an island.

I prefer the kind of role-play that can continue for months, but so mnay players aren't playing the same character very often, and they play at verious times of day, or times of the week (just like most). Factions are almost impossible to keep running for more than a month, and DMs can't help you out with things on the fly, and any long-term thing that requires a DM is very tedious and time-consuming (it's just how it is). Because of all of this, I think role-play becomes somewhat limited, and killing monsters is just easier to do (and also fun).

Also, nobody should assume someone is out of character when they decide not to speak to every character they come across in the game. In some cases, not talking is part of a particulliar character. Hunting parties don't often role-play much just because buffs tend to fade (potions cost gold, and casting spells on party members every three spawns isn't much fun).

Something else I probably shouldn't say; at least half of the DM events I have been a part of haven't been all that fun (just being honest). I respect DMs a lot, but I just feel un-stimulated by some of the DM events that happen.

My point is that role-play requires more effort and more time, when slaying monsters is more accessable and easy to do. Slaying monsters is fun, and role-playing is fun, but slaying monsters is often the easier way to get enjoyment from.

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Hunting parties can totally roleplay. The secret is to keep things terse while you're exploring the big scary dungeon filled with evil monsters. If you start rolling out paragraphs of description Terry Goodkind style when you're fighting then it totally ruins the immersion. That's the annoyance right there.

Parties with a caster have to stop periodically to reapply buffs anyway, and players need to take a break now and then too, despite what some of them might say, so there are plenty of opportunities to take a moment and say what needs saying, if players are motivated.

+1, I'm not alone! Haha.

[smooch] lets have babies. I mean, um, +1!!!!!

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let's make it a love triangle! +1 for me

I hope it is realized no one is disagreeing with you guys.

I have this happen all the time, what's everyone crying about? :V

But, seriously, silent hunting is boring.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

*hides his box of tissues* But but...

Perhaps my definition of role-play differs from the norm (?). I really can't see how you can hunt and really role-play. You can hunt and say stuff, but to me, that's not really role playing (just like standing around in Cordor or Amia Forest and talking about the weather is not really rp in my eyes). Role-play as I see it is intense and immersive- a degree that cannot easily be achieved while hunting monsters.

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Agree to disagree. Running around in silence whilst hunting, for me, breaks immersion but I don't let it ruin my experience on the server. Anyway, I'd say this thread has run its course.

So long as you're not breaking any rules then you're fine.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Login: Narkudauman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ╬ Join the Magisterium Mortis ╬

Alright, I'll throw my 2 cents in here. Why not?

I've played this game online for about 4 years. I started on Prisoners of the Mist as a total noob, and up until that point my greatest experience in RP was Diablo II. So now you know how great I was at it. I got better. I learned the hard way about floaty names. Then, I tried out Avlis and the CoPaP. Nice place, and I still play there, but, small playerbase. However, there I learned the art of RP.

I'm not going to cast judgement on anyone or any server, but, I have to say that some of the most rewarding times playing this game have been with parties of 3-5 hunting, then camping out, recovering from the hunt. Wash, rinse, repeat. Sure, it takes longer to get through a dungeon this way, but, come on, by the end, you're all closer friends. If you hunt in silence, then part ways, no one cares about each other at all. With the "group" mentality, you might actually try to help your friend who's getting beaten up, or they might WANT to help you! The time spent around the campfire afterward is great for recounting the various actions during the fighting, reliving the event. This also builds comeraderie. That feeling of being more than simply yourself in the world.

I played here several months back and immediately was taken in by the differences between Amia and Avlis. They're huge. Gear, xp, number of players, limits on PRC's, limits on xp gains, etc. Unfortunately, I quickly fell into the "you're in range, lets kill stuff" mentality. I actually got my first pc up to level 21 in maybe a couple weeks, not really sure. Then, it got slower, so, I made a new pc! Got that one up to 22! Then another! Then I went back to Avlis because I missed the rp. Guess what I realized? It wasn't the server, it was me. I had allowed myself to simply game, rather than rp. When I came back, these pc's had no friends, no one remembered them. Why? They had done NOTHING in the world.

Dwindling playerbase and some disagreeable events got me looking at Amia again a few weeks ago. I decided to set out to find the RP'ers here. Guess what? I found em. It wasn't hard. I simply did things that made the rp'ers take notice and the gamers move on. There's normally 30-80 people playing between our two servers, lots of people to play with. It doesn't take dozens to make for great roleplay, just the right few at the right time.

I agree with a previous poster about bringing something to the table. Showing up isn't enough. Be interesting, have something different to say. Stand by your opinions and beliefs (of your character, not the player of course). But, remember, being a dick doesn't get you far in RL, so how would it ingame? I have witnessed some people being totally stupid, and can't understand why I don't want to pal around with them. Really?

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but in closing. Soloing happens, grouping happens, sometimes things get quiet, sometimes the dungeoning can be great for rping. Sometimes a great time can be had simply sitting in a tavern sharing a tankard of ale too.

Roleplay is what you make of it.

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Yes but you can't have a detailed narrative in NWN at the same time as the fighting is going on. It's a very demanding and visual experience, so rather than describing everything blow-by-blow, you need to pick the right words to fill in what the combat engine misses. Probably no more than two words per emote, like *Power Decapitation!* or *Backstab!* Not that I'm saying you should use those ones in particular, but what it describes is a heavy swing that takes an enemy's head off, if blood and gore is what gets your party going. You can't do an entire sentence, so abbreviate. But it has to be clear what is going on, I don't think if you typed *PD!* or *BS!* anyone would know what you meant until afterwards.

Too much depends. On your character, on the people you party with, and on your favourite type of roleplay. I've had some great hunting parties where there was a general consensus to walk between mobs and keep the chat going, maybe sharing stories or tips on fighting those specific enemies, telling jokes, you name it. If this is what you're after, it might be a good idea to just ask in Tell if that's what they're up for, instead of getting hot under the collar when they'd rather move through the mobs quickly.

Similarly, I've played characters that were mostly silent types. During hunts, they'd only really emote and seldom speak at all. Thus, nearly every meaningful RP session took place outside of hunts. Who wants to pry into someone's backstory in the middle of a cave full of enemies? Doesn't make sense. I understand that it can feel like hunting and RPing are two different branches on the tree - you want to make a certain type of character, you have your build planned out, and maybe you don't feel comfortable roleplaying them fully until they have a sufficient amount of experience. You want to roleplay a wizened old monk who's taught and fought in many monasteries, but it might rankle with you to have him stuck at level three for an age. Or you want to roleplay a champion of light, but who's going to take you seriously when you're wearing splint mail and a large shield, barely able to bash rats on a ship?

I feel that some people ignore the fact that everyone starts out at level three on the island. Not everybody wants to have to roleplay the training of their skills - they just want to get to a high enough level to feel like they've just created the character they intended to play from the very beginning. If you're a particularly evil or mouthy character, you want to be able to back your words up with brawn, because getting kicked in the head all the time would teach even the thickest idiot to either buff up or shut up, and losing all the time might not sit well with people on an OOC level either.

Now whether this 'rush to my expected power level' approach is wrong or right isn't for me to say, but it doesn't exactly generate great RP if, for whatever reason, people are far more concerned with teh phat l00tz than interacting with each other. Being able to slay hundreds of kobolds on one journey through the caves can trivialise combat on an out of character level, but just look out through your character's eyes for a second. There's a mob of angry lizard midgets slavering and drooling over the thought of nibbling on your flesh - one slip in concentration and you might be their next meal, and the gods know you've barely fought anything tougher than your younger sister during your time growing up. But you said you'd rescue that farmer's amulet, and damn it, you're going to see it through to the end, for the glory of (insert god/someone you want to impress/pet etc.)

I don't know. I just feel that you need to keep looking at everything you do in-game with new eyes. Things you've done on a dozen different characters a dozen times are new to your character. Think about how scared you might be in combat, the nervous laughter that might take over, or deathly silences, or you might tap into that furious berserker rage that leaves you kicking your enemies' dead bodies long after they gave up the fight. Think about where your character grew up, the anecdotes they have, the teachers they might have learned from. Did they have hobbies? Have they ever been trained to fight a specific enemy (looking at the bonuses halflings, dorfs and gnomes get here)? Are they really that keen to pick up that moist hankie that the stinking orc just dropped? There is an absolute treasure chest of things to RP about when you're hunting, and the difference it makes is phenomenal.

Spontaniety and forward thinking are a great help. But really what I'm saying is a party of two 3D characters will generate so much more RP than a party of six auto-named dungeonrunners who just want to nab their bosslewt and take a coffee break.

As usual, most people who have read this topic are probably not the people who need to heed the advice here anyway, but such is the nature of the forums!

Anyway, I seem to have just thrown a thought splurge onto the page here. In answer to the OP's question, yes, it's perfectly possible to be a soloer and a good roleplayer. I'd just like to reinforce this point:

I just do what's fun at the time, and that's pretty good philosophy in general when playing a game.

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Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess

NO! You must play games the way I want you to play them!!!

(don't take this seriously)

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*Puts Murex on the DM Blacklist of Darkness*

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

how is, being in a characer's skin, and fighting for your life, not immersive? why must immersion be about giggles around a fountain... or plotting around a table... this is pretty much the same discussion that arises in every topic, no matter what the title says.

+1

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

You're not really in that character's skin if you're just fighting through an area. The NWN combat engine can do a lot of things, hell with ACP you can even have a rough approximation of your character's fighting style. If you want to really immerse yourself though you have to (you should) fill in the details.

Like I said, you don't have a lot of time to type during the mad rush but think about it. If you see someone emoting *frenzied* or *berserking* then you think of a raging barbarian, the expression on their face, the sound of their battle roar. If you see them emoting *bloodied* you can imagine the blood, either splashed on them or bleeding from their own wounds. If you see them emoting *pummeling* then you think of the monk battering at his enemies mid-sections with his fists of steel. Painful.

Best of all, nobody's going to care that you hotkey these and then just use them at the appropriate time. They might actually think, 'wow, cool, I'm going to do that too.' Even if they don't, the end result is still going to be way way better than the sensory-deprived spectacle that is vanilla NWN combat, and much more enjoyable for the party.

I have no trouble typing up fairly detailed emotes when fighting things.

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Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess

Start lvling with DCs....if you have enough DC to get a char to lvl 30 then you have the answer:P

I usually hunt at 3am in the morning, all I have energy for is point and click and heal kits incase my hp goes low...too tired to type

When only 5 people are on the server, role-play is unlikely. If you want to fill in some time, just grind away. I don't think anyone can blame you for it.

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+2!

I felt plenty in character last night when the entire party got TPK'ed by beholders and they were spawning everywhere left and right. I was the last survivor and I was running frantically about to get away. No, I wasn't typing in how fast my character was breathing or how scared she felt.

I just ran like hell. And it felt pretty durned immersive.