The player list used to scroll off the bottom of my screen, now, I'm lucky to have it go past half way. What happened?

Over the last few months I've noticed a pattern of event/plot lines which seem to center on "I R ebil!! Now I keeel you!!" or some such thing. Development and progress seems to contribute to making places less desirable to visit. IE: Bendir Dale, and Winya, the Shrine of Eilistraee, and Kampo's to name a few. Sure there have been some lighter developments like the mage school and such, but they cater to such a small audience, imo. So, whats left?

Seems like everyone just retreats to their corner to wait it out, including the staff by the look of it. Seeing a DM on is a treat lately. The players wait for a DM to move a story/plot line forward, and vice versa. I understand that RL can be a bitch, its kicking me in the ass right now too with working more than I need/want, but I think this goes beyond that given that its not something that just ....happened over night, but has been slowly getting worse and worse as the days roll by.

So, the question: WHAT HAPPENED? And what the hell do we do about it? I, for one, would like to see development of some of the more uncommon areas, and less of the plot lines that seem to invariably lead to hostile/pvp interaction with the other players. Those sort of events/plots only seem to attract the powerbuilders and boss farmers so that they can be bad ass enough to kick ass when those events crop up, which only encourages the economy to turn to the 'rich getting richer..' syndrome, which creates the "If you can't beat em, join em" syndrome, and it becomes a viscous circle, and we end up where we are now. Sitting in our corners watching each other because the only thing that seems likely to happen is a tiny bit of RP which will end in some sort of conflict that only a select few can resolve with out being but hurt.

Loosing motivates people, but loosing constantly motivates them the wrong way.

Ideas!!! We need Amia to get rolling again!!! =D

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I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

It might be wise to hear from players that have left the server and why.

_________________

What happened: NWN turned ten.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

I wrote a super long response based on my own perspective, but decided against posting it. I think it boils down to one thing. Realizing the fact that this is a game and is supposed to be fun. The second that stops being the case for players and DM's alike, then it's time to rethink why you're playing.

Also, get out of you comfort zone or "corner" and interact with people you might not normally. There is nothing more frustrating then players who actively seek to alienate or ignore others. Be inclusive and fun things happen.

The real difficulty is that inactivity is always a snowball effect. Once a decent chunk of people leave, more will follow. And there's always things that take us away - boredom, real life, game drama - normally you don't notice because people tend to show up to fill voids, but at times like these it's noticeable and it really hurts the server pop.

I noticed the problem as well though, very hard to locate people. If you're not having much luck where you are, it may help to try and make a new character and move towards a group who you wouldn't otherwise interact with. The server might fracture further but with luck it should open up again and things will pick up. We'll see.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

We were starting to settle into a bit of an upswing in player activity, things were improving... and then the server crash stalled things. Unfortunately (though no fault of anyone's, it's just what it is) it was a long enough period that people tried out other servers or discovered there was actually this thing called "the great outdoors" out there in the world."

Rather than start a thread in which people will endlessly debate over one cause or another for inactivity, or this thing drives players away or that thing isn't done enough, etc. etc. I would invite everyone once again to read this thread, and send any of the staff a PM.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65985

We are still taking (and indeed receiving) feedback both from current and past players, and it has already helped us to identify areas for improvement of the server. Keep it coming folks, your words are not wasted, we want and need to hear from you.

Oh, that thing is still taking suggestions? ...If only I thought I had something meaningful to say, though...!

That said, would it hurt if there was a little public discussion? I haven't seen anything on this in a while, and it might help to generate ideas that won't come up by sending feedback directly to DMs.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

Discuss it openly, or send a PM to the team. Either way...

This.

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Playing:
Marcus Valis

Exactly.

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I Am:
Derrin: 'Nothing to see here'
Beck: Hard working dwarf paladin.
Naela 'Widow': Wandering priestess.
Celinor Triellian: Paladin of Corellon.

A little public discussion isn't a bad thing. It's when it turns into a lot of public discussion and devolves into specific details and people leaving steaming bags out on the proverbial lawn that is begins to harm things. That's why (personally at least) I'd much prefer stuff to be sent to the staff one-on-one. The minute it devolves into "I really hated this plotline" or "we need to change the PvP rules because so-and-so did this to me" is the moment it becomes destructive instead of constructive.

I even thought about nipping it in the bud and locking this thread when I posted the above, but I decided to give it a chance in the hopes that things will stay constructive.

I personally am not much for public discussions as they rarely lead to anything. Though of course anyone can discuss as they wish. And DM who cares for my 2cent on the topic can prod me with a PM or via MSN though.

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My thoughts on the matter is that it isn't just a matter for the Devs and DM's to "solve" by adding/editing areas and being more active. It's great that they do, of course, but there will still be people who won't benefit from it. Either because the areas hold no appeal to them or the plots aren't relevant to their character (or they simply have no interest in the concept). So what could be done?

Player quests. High-level characters giving quests to low-level characters. PC's gathering groups to go on make-pretend quests into existing areas. This, especially, can really freshen things up. Say you gather a few other lowbie characters and ICly start a quest to find the Fat Lute/leader's sister/whatnot, which was stolen by kobolds. And off we go! Even if we OOC know there's no such thing to be found, the RP can still be enormously fun IF you don't focus on just clearing the area of monsters. You can do that in any other "hunt" - LOTR wouldn't be nearly as interesting (albeit absurdly entertaining, perhaps) if the Fellowship spent 3 hours running around Moria without saying a word, slaying everything they came across.

Organise your own events. Scholarly characters, gather and do scholarly stuff! Warrior characters, declare war on something! Ranger characters, hunt an elusive and most hated leader of your favored enemy! Rogue characters, plan and execute an elaborate heist!

Do things WITHOUT requiring or involving a DM, or only minimally so. Nothing you do should/will have server-changing consequences to anyone but your own character. And I'm sure any DM would be thrilled to see players taking initiative. Maybe they might even drop in and spice things up...

_________________
Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon.
"Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over."
Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance.
"Sol Invictus"

well hindsight is 20/20 as we all know, but I'll take afew pokes at this.

what I belive is the main downfall with players on B-mia is the layout of the server, when you look at A-mia you get that connected feeling because its a single island, things effect the world and so effect your neighbors meaning more RP

lets take a quick look at the servers layout

A-mia
Amia island.

B-mia
Caraigh,Wiltun
Khem
Frozenfar
Underdark
Shadowplane
Forrstaker
Brogendenstein
and now main land Ruathym
EDIT I forgot Abyss

lets say the dale was in ruins for some reason, it has in walking distance a number of diffrent groups/settlements...ect made up of players who could take part realistically as they live near eachother.

B-mia is so split up you really have no neighbors, nothing effects anyone else, events and RP does not breach the gap of distance and we get stagnated then the active player bases die out with lack of RP.

another problem I see with B-mia is that then you need a small army of active DMs to attempt to try and keep the disconnected player base of islands to remain active because its so stagnated...that in turn might burn out the DM if they even wish to take the time with a island thats active player base is... 1-3 players.

what could we attempt to do... I'm not sure
we could attempt Alternate beginnings for locations on B-mia to get players interested about the location, learn its history and lore in hopes it grows.


I think thats all I will put this post for now, but anyone else who wants to chat is free to PM me on the forums or in game, I'll be on my bridge.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

Exactly this. This forever.

Well well, it seems that my intuitive prediction from ages back comes true.
Upgrading things inside isn't enough to get more people into amia. You need to advertise.

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My favourite sniper loadout: Huntsman, jarate, bushwacka.
Team Fortress 2 is FREE TO PLAY!

To be honest, I think most of the issue was the server crash. It was slow, then picking up, then the server was down, and no one came back. It makes sense, in a way, and seeing less of 'the usual suspects' makes me less inclined to log on. Plus, Skyrim lol

Something that helped, though, is I made a new character. It's hard to fully interact with new people when you are tied up with old people that are not around or the level range is so huge you can just go out and hunt things. I made a dwarf, though he's mostly for testing he will serve to inspire RP and such as well.

Gradually, though, over the last couple weeks I have seen people come back and so that is heartening. Plus, I'm using semi-newer chars to try and inspire RP in some of the people that have joined in the last few months and that have been around longer.

Ultimately, one of the huge downfalls is my lack of IG involvement for several months earlier this year. It caused me to stagnate and loose touch with the playerbase, and so I didn't know a lot of the new names I was seeing, which made me hesitant to log on. But I've been getting over that quickly.

There are certain things that I know (in the sense that it is inferred by people's comments/actions/discerned predispositions towards certain things) people have left Amia for, and they are petty and foolish to be honest. I would never go into them, though. It's just the nature of humanity.

But! I have seen new players over the past week so that's good ^_^

Amia will remain by and far the most wonderful roleplay experience of my life, and I hope it never ever dies.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

It would be a good start to reinstate the portal function in Cordor. Encouraging something by inconveniencing something else is not the best way to go about it.

The only thing it inconvenienced was people committing crimes and then escaping without the possibility of capture. It was a boldly innovative move on the city's behalf (perhaps a deal with the devil, too) in order to stop that from happening. There is a way to change that, but no one's really taken the steps to do so.

I think it was mainly the crash too. I know for me it made me look other places for entertainment. I'd also say it was timed with the weather, but that's always been the case I think. It's summer, or around the end of it, so people are either enjoying it or preparing for school, or what have you. Come the fall and winter months, we'll see things get back to normal.

_________________

Ironically I thought about it the other day, simply that it was an inconvenience to not be able to check your portal wand menu (not actually make a portal), and I immediately thought through why I was done.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

The IC reasoning is sound, of course. Just the side effect of having less people in Cordor and therefore making the server less attractive for the new arrivals that start there is unfortunate.

I guess the big thing that kinda shut down Amia for me was the fact that I missed almost every DM and PC event within the past 6 months, it's nobody's fault, it's just because they're on the weekends when I can't really play.

Another thing was that every city I'd ever been in was completely empty. I'd wait around for ~30 mins. Nobody'd walk through, and when they did, they'd just rush past.

Though recently...my desktop went BSOD on me, and my NWN was on there. Been a bit too busy to look for the disk to reinstall it with school back in and everything.

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I'm done. Goodbye.

I think there's too much forum RP, which leads to less in-game RP (maybe).

Also, where have all the evil factions gone? Looking at the faction list, they are all good aligned (maybe). You need conflict.

And it seems to me, it's hard to get in with a faction without OOC knowledge/connections. Making a character to specifically join a faction in a pre-determined way is something I don't really like (maybe).

Otherwise, I think Amia is probably -the- best server out there, both balance-wise and people-wise.

I've been coming to the server for years, and this is the first year I came back and nothing had changed. Usually I had to spend a week figuring out the politics of, who's doing this or that, what plots were going on, but this time ... everything was already familiar. People were playing the same characters they were before, doing the exact same things they were before. It was like I had never left.

What I loved about the server in previous years was how easy it was to find myself swept up in something cool. Proper adventures, rather than 'hunting' or 'training,' events, DM drop ins, whatever, there was a sense the world was alive and my character was a part of it. This year, when I came around for my yearly binge, I couldn't get involved in anything. I tried, god knows I tried, but no dice. Why? Because the server has settled into a routine.

The same characters are doing the same things, and that leaves little room for new players to find a place. I don't buy NWN turning 10 as the cause of the drop off - GOG is selling it, other servers are still going strong, and if you want a proper online RPG, not a CRPG or hack and slash, NWN is your only platform. But as someone who has come back new every year, and tried to recruit my friends to play with me, I can honestly tell you that this year I didn't feel like I was a part of the server. My friend commented that we could do on DDO basically the same thing that we were doing on Amia. When I talked up the server it was all plots and intense conversations and a world alive with intrigue and adventure. Not sure if that stuff is still around, but let me tell you, it's not being offered to new players who aren't part of the old guard.

My feedback is that Amia needs a reboot. Start all over, everyone makes new characters, everyone starts at level 1. If you've got a character that is a leader of a faction, congrats, that character is now an NPC. That's what powerful character do in PnP: they retire. They retire and make room for new blood.

I would really like to keep playing on Amia, but the reason I stopped showing up was because I felt like it didn't matter. And that's a really crap feeling.

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You dare mock the Tibbly one, catcherer of drowses?

"Rebooting" to level one and such as you've described is not something the staff would force the entire server to do; that would alienate far more people than it would bring in. Especially when there are other solutions to the problems you've described.

I admit in my own case, it's primarily a matter of my schedule not getting me on at times where I can do much that I'd like to be doing (that being, RP with friends primarily but meeting new people in potentially interesting RP's a close second). I also find myself mildly mind-wiped and not as inclined to go and sniff out the RP when I come home from work, but I'll work on that the best I can.

Way ahead of ya, thanks to the Constructive Feedback we've received from other players.

Some of the best RP moments i've had were ages ago with the old black flag, why make cordor crime free? the attempts to keep policing things, create 'pvp' safe areas etc has led to utter boringness where previously it would be drama, crime, pvp, etc which is part and parcel of the game. The portal wand thing just lowered the traffic to cordor to make the whole place irrelevant.






THIS:
well...
All the good evil rp'ers quit for certain reasons which there would be no point bringing up here but i'll sum it up in a few points.. keep in mind this is based on general observation over the past several years.


- People who play evil characters get accused for being pvp monkeys. I speak from previous experience, take it from someone who is now playing a paladin almost full time and pretty much is inactive on his evil toons. I've seen way too many people quit over accusations.

Fact is this:

Playing evil results in PVP most of the time, and the management team responds to pvp complaints by trying to investigate and do a root cause analysis and solve the problem. When it comes to too many complains coming from a single PC. That pc inevitable gets up being banned or reprimanded too many times that they just quit. This sheer hardness has repeated itself so many times over so many plots that it's now resulted into amia being the Sims with Swords.


-Conflict is key. To drama, to situational rp, to birth of new plots etc. Example would be the Caraigh conflict. The critiques of this event are many, but that being said, it was rated in the polls as the best dm event, (if i'm not mistaken) and also, it drove traffic through the roof. I know many players both on the good and bad side that had a lot of growth in terms of their character storylines from it.

How it ended though was with evil characters being ..reprimanded, and thus leaving. Same with (Insert any previously popular evil faction here)


I would like to suggest that a dedicated DM/one or two DM's that specialise in looking after and promoting the interests of evil characters and likewise those that look after those of the other side, and whenver conflict occurs for the characters involved to go to their respective 'heads' and launch their complains, then the 'heads' meet and discuss if action is necessary.

I would like to also advocate that 'action' is not always necessary in fact, policing and creating more and more procedures and rules etc in regards to evil- vs good conflict and enforcing this is not necessarily the best way forward organic growth of the playerbase as a whole.

It's the playerbase that needs to just grow in it's maturity and understand that pvp happens, deal with it...it's d&d.. where good and evil is a key component of the game, and being the first to complain to a to a DM doesnt mean your enemy is going to get banned. A lot of evil players complained that they get 'ban threats' by a lot of players that so called have sway or close relationships with dms, the second any conflict occurs.


This is a personal viewpoint and doesnt hold on to any person/group/faction/entity in particular and is only aired because this is an open discussion, I sincerely care about the server.

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Currently starring:
Vinasis D'Magi- Calishite Merchant
Pantheros Sylvanight- Lycanlord of Malar
Artorious Godstrike- Paladin of Torm

Cordor is not crime free. And the only reason it seems that way to you is because most wannabe criminal roleplayers want the satisfaction of successfully committing crime without the risk of getting caught. Ergo, portal rod control is not a deterrent: player/character cowardice is.

The evil RP is there if you look. Oh, and I've never had to resort to PvP to do it.

I have a rough idea of why so many Eternal Order members have left over the years, and I think I, Herra Tutteri, Phearnun and many others have voiced it several times over the years. In many parts the same things that apply to Amia's evil factions apply to us, since we both live for conflict and goal-oriented gameplay.

Amia is a really bad sandbox, and we like playing in sandboxes instead of following stories with scripts and rules. We like conflict, but in Amia conflicts have no real meaning. We like active interaction with other players and the game world; interaction with real consequences both ways, but on Amia there is only pretended interaction with no actual impact. We like conflicts that have, beginnings, ends and consequences, but on Amia there are no consequences and everything continues until players get bored and quit. We play in order to interact and affect the world we play in, and to compete in doing so with people who work for different kind of changes, but on Amia the world never reacts and players can not really affect each other. We play to have an impact, to create history for the fictional world, but Amia is static. We also like PvP as a part of that conflict, competition and player interaction, but Amia fears it and considers it a shameful thing to do.

My dream fantasy RPG would be something like EVE Online, but with swords and sorcery, where the entire world is built upon unrestricted player interaction, and NPC:s have a minimal role. Instead of something like that, Amia is Status Quo the RPG.

Amia offers NONE of this, and never has. The kind of gameplay I and many others, most notably players in EO, Evil factions and the player cliques I have been part of, seek in role playing games seems to be disliked and discouraged. I still play here every now and then, but there is no goal to work towards that would resonate with my ambitions, because Amia is more of a theme park than a sandbox, and there is no room for ambition. This frustrates goal-oriented players a lot. We can enjoy theme parks, but they get old, we get bored, and we stop playing.

EDIT:

Quoted out of context to emphasize that this is my problem with Amia in a nutshell.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

Sadly, I agree with you, Silvarus, and no matter how much I keep trying to take a hammer to the status quo or change it from the inside, there are a million excuses for keeping what we have or apocalyptic predictions of theserver's resulting death.

The best evil is the unseen one. Every idiot can powerlevel himself to 30 and turn to CE PvPer. As Ninja said, evil is there. And some is quite exquisite.

I said it before, I will say it again. A vast issue I see is the powerbuilding thread. One should create a character that fits him best. Unfortunately, people do tend to create powerbuilds instead, which results in solo hunting and easy PvP. I dislike PvP in general - not that I am completely against it, absolutely not, but there is a huge difference between solid PvP and bad PvP.

Also, a golden line is this -



No, not a golden line. Should be a golden rule. I'd love to see DM's as a hidden 'force', observing and interacting only if necessary. A lot of players tend to RP only when DMs are around, waiting and hoping for the juicy DC. Fortunately, there is still a solid playerbase that stay in character all the time, with DMs or not.

I do not think Amia changed dramatically. I think it is two years ago when I proposed a few things that I think would improve the world, alas, things vastly rejected. For example :

- Items drop on death (some gold, some inventory) - this is a total eradicator of mindless PvP.
- More drastic death penalties, including temporary stats reduction, for example. When someone crack open your skull and you survive, your brain is not in a mint condition for a while. Call it a convalescence time.
- Powerbuilding reduction - Some PrCs on lock, available only for those who show top quality RP. It is called Prestige for a reason.

... and so on.

Also, the iddle standing in Cordor is messing with my nerves everytime I see it. I mean, it is not a RP when one stands in town with xxx number of other characters, watching each other in silence and waiting for something to happen. Would you do that in RL? I would not - not only it seems freaky (should I see a bunch of people standing around all day, silently watching, well... ), but it is also a waste of time.

I do enjoy Amia still ... same as I enjoyed it four years ago. There are players I love to play with, there are players I basically ignore. And I would expect the same vice-versa.

Edit :



+1.

No, +100.

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Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

Yeah I understand many of those reasons, I just consider them minor risks, though I have no way of knowing how players with different play styles than mine would react. I suppose it could be entirely possible that breaking the status quo in one way or another would cause a massive shitstorm among the players. I don't really believe it, but it is still plausible.

Well, one risk is more than minor: Increased need for a lot of toolset-work might demand way too much effort or unfeasible amount of crowdsourcing, but there are ways to do sandbox-gameplay without having to do a lot of customizing all the time.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

I would be interested to know what suggestions you have on that front, Silvarus.

Silvarus, very good points well made. Agreed 100%.

This idea, is AWESOME. Simple, straightforward and brilliant. Something like this would create reasonable consequences for failure, ways to actually make your opponents weaker by taking their epic gear, and make people actually take the risk of death seriously, without having to tweak other parts of death mechanics. When everyone is lvl 30, it is the items you bring to battles that you actually fear for.

This would however require some method of storing items off person, since characters going to war, to martyr themselves or otherwise taking calculated risks should be able to leave their most prized posessions home. I like risk and reward walking hand in hand, but you should be able to at least partially affect the amount of risk you are taking, if you see it coming. Don't wear what you can not afford to lose and so on.

EDIT: Saw Yossarin's post. Something like Guardian's idea above would completely change the face of PvP and create a lot of consequences for the conflicts where physically changing the world is not the goal. Many spesific physical changes are feasible as one-time toolset projects, but a lot more could possibly be implemented trough scripted mechanics. For example, it would be interesting if an evil group of players could activate an area where their opponents spawn and for as long as the area is marked as occupied in some database, the mechanics consider it the spawn location of the occupying group instead of the usual one, and would keep the normal peaceful NPC:s from spawning there until the occupied status is removed. (or the EO could invade Tarkuul or something like that.) Things like this would need minimal active work by the devs, but might even create a dynamic competition for control of faction bases.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

no thats a bad idea.....
you will have nude sorcs/wizards and crap running in just blast everyone apart hellballs, greater ruin...ect and if the off chance they die... no big deal they had nothing on anyway because spells like that are not effected by items. it would just lead to people doing ninja gank strikes like we are playing World of Warcraft, but in this case it will be a group of casters all running in and nuking people will hellball and taking thier shit.

it would just put even more focus on powerbuilding.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

I disagree. It is a very bad idea. This would not stop power PvPers to hassle other charas and kill them over and over and then those poor sods even get even more punished for it. This could only work if at all if there was an option to refuse PvP and that would make the whole scene entirely ooc.

Also this is a RP server... the gods randomly stealing some items and gold or whatever from a dead person is a little silly. And giving it to the one who won battle (as stealing) is even worse.

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Permadeath I thought.

I'll just say this, since I've always felt it was the best advice I've ever been given.

'You can't please everyone, and trying just makes everyone hate you.'

With that in mind, here are my thoughts.

1) Either keep on placating the care-bears, or let the blood-monkeys have their day and change the current setup to make PvP a little bit more meaningful - the detailing above is in my opinion a good thing. The prospect of Streaking Sorcs (you heard it here first) will just ~gasp~ force people to adapt. Status Quo has to go! Oh my!

2) Finetune Cordor - let people at least check their portal rods rather than make them completely useless.

3) Consider consolidating existing areas - put a halt on expansion of the server - especially on B. I'm not meaning to be dismissive of people's attempts to improve the server or add content to it, but when the current sandbox is currently hardly being played in, it'd be easier to stop expanding it and allow players to actually interact with the landscape. Sorcerer with good RP reason Hellballs the Dale flat (for example) - Spend Dev time making alternate versions of areas so that a brief update can have the next server reset reflecting that.

These are just three things I think that would help.

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Jys'zyne Do'larn

Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?

New job idea: Mage hunter! YAYYYY! *cough* Seriously speaking:

It would be very difficult to implement, yes, but it should be doable. Hellball and other essentially instadeath effects are a bit iffy though. Something like half of lost loot being permanently lost (YAY for gold sinks) and half dropping to be looted might keep the risk/reward ratio of banditry in check for example.

For conflicts in general, as long as the game mechanics are such that havig numbers on your side can ensure safety or revenge, risk/reward can be kept hand to hand. Though DnD's insane scale of power makes this a bit of a challenge to realize.

My favourite game design principle: Keeping risk and reward tightly bound together.

It would probably also require having NPC-dominated areas as no-PvP safe zones, which I do not like but would definitely be a necessary tradeoff.



Worst argument ever. How many NPC corpses have your characters looted? Millions?

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

ok I lets not derail the topic and get it locked with ping pong on this idea, its a bad idea to me, it rewards gank style attacks with caster classes, and your reply did nothing to counter that point and only renforced it more. I am sure this idea was given to them befor and it was turned down for a reason.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

Heh, it is funny how all the sudden everyone is afraid of their precious loots.

No, really. Silvarus is basically speaking (or writting) my mind. You should be afraid when walking into hostile territory. Right now, 30's have nothing to loose. Gold? Meh, got millions and the truly powerful items for trade only. XP's? I am lvl 30 already, sch00led!

Bandits? Oh sure, there will be bandits. But we have a lot of shiny knights, guardians and law-doers. If there is a banditry, go deal with it IC. You'd be suprised how many golden shiny knights are being played by cowards who will not risk their hard-earned ( ) loot. If you got ambushed by bandits now, you'll be a braveheart, waving his two hander against them and yelling a battlecry. Because death means nothing, no true loss will happen if you fall. But if you get ambushed with a chance to loose your loot, ha! Now be brave. Maybe some would even sacrifice some gold and items for their life, and that is good. It is a natural reaction, to keep oneself alive. To be afraid when danger shows up.

And besides, don't you think the bandits will be afraid to loose their loot as well? Having their asses posted in every city and a bunch of law-abbiding soldiers pinned to their arses. It takes some balls to have a bandit on a server where PvP consequences are harsh. Or Death consequences.

Everything, and I mean everything, every situation is a new potentional for a RP.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
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Obsidian (inactive)

PvP is tangential to RP; people get hung up on it, either that it's great or that it sucks, but whether people go hostile doesn't really have anything to do with RP. Someone who loves PvP can be a great RPer, and someone who hates it can be a great RPer. You've got to give people a reason for people to RP, which means you've got to give people a stake in influencing how the game world shakes out. Right now, that doesn't happen.

I'd love the see the status quo get shaken up, but I don't see that happening without characters getting shaken up too. Let's say Kohligen sank into the ocean because the Baneites went nuts with tunnels, but the entire Triad survives. Status quo is preserved, they just change location. I'm not arguing for mandatory rebooting, but players can do a lot by starting over and writing a new story.

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You dare mock the Tibbly one, catcherer of drowses?

It has been discussed before and denied. For a good reason.

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And look where it got us.

Agreed with Silvarus.

I'm really sick of the "people will grief" arguments. Griefing is, has been and always will be illegal on Amia. Speculating about "naked ninja-looters" is fear-mongering, and not very believable. The DMs deal with griefers now, it would be no different.

As some may know, I left Amia for EfU:A after I quit DMing. It was simply more to my tastes. Death to spawns would cost 1/3 of your experience and you had to go back for your inventory. The rare Raise Dead would reduce it to 1/6, and the extraordinary Resurrection to 1/9. (The typical level range was 1-7, not sure what the cap was.) If you died in PvP or a DM event, you weren't allowed to respawn at all without special DM permission - you'd need someone to raise you or you were permadead.

I never saw anyone griefing and abusing the system. I don't see why Amians would be any less reponsible and mature. What it did do was add genuine risk to the game, a rush of adrenaline when you got caught outside when night fell, all alone and suddenly a sabercat jumps out of stealth and chases you across three areas. Exploring was exciting. Quests had a high risk-reward ratio. Political affiliation and other choices could get you hunted by half the server. My favorite PC said the wrong thing in the presence of a demon lord in a DM quest and was turned to stone forever, after the other PCs turned on him, chased him down and dragged him back to the demon. It was the most memorable RP I've ever had.

I don't think all this should be implemented on Amia. I also don't think EfU:A was perfect; it had its flaws like any other server, enough so for me to eventually return to Amia. But what it does prove is that high risks and severe consequences do not lead to uncontrollalbe griefing, contrary to what the tired fear-mongering insists. I don't know what would be the best way to make Amia vital and exciting, and I'm not 100% sure going more consequence-oriented and hardcore would achieve that (though I know many who would love it). All I'm saying is, the scary pictures painted by the defenders of the status quo are baseless excuses and shouldn't be the reason not to go ahead with something.

Amia as a server isn't bad, though. I've come back and I've enjoyed my time. I actually think the module layout, the DMs and their quests, the general atmosphere is very good right now. The number one reason I'm so inactive is because of the general inactivity. I've played this server on and off for seven years. I have half a dozen new games that need completing, a shelf full of books to read before lectures start, a few hundred albums to review, studies to plan and e-mails to write to professors, groceries and cooking, all kinds of boring real-world stuff. I'm past the point of idling in Cordor square for an hour, hoping to strike some meaningful RP with someone. I log on, go through some interesting areas and try to make conversation, but I simply don't have the time or interest to wait around for something to happen. And right now, I'm lacking motivation to make something happen all alone. I'll jump on any bandwagon you offer me, but there are much better single-player games out there if I have to play alone.

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Now I have been a champion of this for a long time already, and have been doing it. Now the key challenge here is that whenever you try to do any meaningful rp, that involves a guard or involves anything remotely needed for having condusive rp. Ie. rescuing a child/or kidnapping one, or even a druid 'talking or communicating with trees or a bird' is not possible when theres no dm around.

I've seen accusations of "Do you have DM approval for this.." Do you Have DM approval for that.." eventually the whole thing gets ridiculous where even if u wanted to just sit down and say.. I feel some gods presence guiding me.. you'd get crazy DM APPROVAL plz type accusations.

It's harder still to conduct crimes in cordor when theres a guard in almost every corner and even trying something as simple as pickpocketing or throwing an apple at someone, would nett u a 'Hey youz metagaming da guards..noob me report you 2 ban youzz hur hur"...

All I'm saying is that too much policing has resulted in castration of the creative rp impulse which is so popularly being quoted now in this thread as being the 'golden rule'.

_________________
Currently starring:
Vinasis D'Magi- Calishite Merchant
Pantheros Sylvanight- Lycanlord of Malar
Artorious Godstrike- Paladin of Torm

I will just post what I wrote to the DMs as feedback a few months back. Some things have already improved (like in Kohingen with the shift from Tormak to MrHackums.) This is also very DM-Oriented. Concerning playerbase things I will need to write something up when I have time, but Silvarnus already mentioned something I find very important.

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In the recent months there has been a staggering dwindling of players. Amia ranks third, often fourth, in the server list compared to Arelith, Prisoners of the Mists and FR Cormyr, and has for a while. It has not been the "the most populated nwn rp server" for quite some time. It is not rare to have all 3 Arelith servers above Amia A, as well as Forgotten Realms Cormyr, PotM, as well as Puerta de Baldur and Pheonixmodul, the last two very suprising.

The server needs to take a very hard look at itself. It needs to think about what other servers have done better, remedy those drawbacks and improve on it's strengths.

For me what held me here primarily is the playerbase and their ideas. The other server I greatly enjoy playing on, currently on an alt account, and have begun to move more and more to is the nwn2 Baldur's Gate server. That server to me feels like it has been designed and developed with a great deal of love to detail and atmosphere as a whole. The benefit it has was to be designed on the great work of the Baldur's Gate series and with great quality right from the begining. But the quality has little to do with superior graphics of the game but really is based on the work of the design and dev team there.

When you go adventuring you have hunting areas you feel belong there and are not only an area for xp by hitting stuff, but a part of the world. The city is rich with detail and diversity, the areas are not too crammed and have some distance, the lore is intergrated into the design beautifully making it a really believable world you can dive into. The DMs there hold many short and enjoyable spontaneous plots. They have a slightly larger playerbase by my estimate, but even with less time playing there I have been in a great deal of fun plots outnumbering those I have been a part of on amia.


The Community:
I strongly disagree with the policy that to me appears like a consistent condescending patronization by the team of the playerbase. Amia thrived mainly because of the community, their ideas and their creativity that provided interesting roleplay for one another on a server that provided the freedom and support for it.

Yet the input and ideas of the playerbase have never been so under-appreciated than now, and this is the way it has been for a while.

Here I would truly hope to see a change of attitude by the staff. A start would be the staff creating a topic requesting feedback to be send to them in a pm on the issues they want to tackle. (Glad that was done). It also means that the staff should work to create a more relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere by moderating better, and by being more considerate of the wishes and ideas of the community as a whole.


Evil and Criminal Roleplay:
Amia has never been a story driven server where the characters consist of a variety of protagonists battling the npc antagonists in plots, but a server where the community creates, or created, the majority of the conflict and plots for themselves. Evil factions have been an essential part of the server and it`s success in the past.

Because of this, the lows on DM plots very often were remedied by our fellow players. The good guys still had evil to fight and plans to thwart. The Black Flag, the Velsharrens, the Banites, the Sharrens, the Cultists of Orcus, and other antagonist factions provided conflict for characters who were on the protagonist side.

How things like South Cordor and Caraigh were handled was a huge a mistake. In the case of South Cordor you had a thriving criminal roleplay community that turned into a pvp problem. These however are the moments when the staff can change how things develop with opportunity and roleplay, instead of simply quashing something that has a very positive potential for the server.

Crime is a buisness, and in a district where guards are rare it is best kept so. So a crime lord, or a thieves guild, or another shady institution could have restored the sanity that was aimed for. They could have made it clear the deeds of the criminal characters is a risk to the way of life in Cordor with their ogre like methods, and stepped in. In addition, the staff could have steered the players there with plots and quests.

If the deeds of evil or criminal factions simply becomes a negative influence, why not offer the piece of sugar instead but in fear of the whip and let them invest their creativity in something the staff believes to be a great addition to the server? I simply do not believe our playerbase is less capable with such things than those on other servers.

Other large and successful servers manage to provide a server for evil characters and factions to thrive, and hence for good characters and factions to have opponents. Amia on the other hand managed to alienate some of the best roleplayers the server had because it seems incapable of providing and creating an envoirment for it or working with the players, who get along perfectly with the staff of other servers.


Spread Out Playerbase and Locations:
One of the major problems these days is that every little place is home to someone, and the playerbase is way too spread out. This often results in shifts of hotspots - for a while Winya Ravena - before Kohlingen - then shortly to Barak Runedar. This is simply because there is a limited number of players who shift between locations on alt characters when a spree of activity hits.

Large cities that should have diversity simply lack it, because every aspect has it`s own city or location. This was not a major problem with a huge playerbase, but now it has become one. The team is hardly at fault at allowing it as it worked for a while, but with the decrease in players there should have been steps taken to encourage certain locations to increase in groups.

If you look at cities like Baldur's Gate you have more than two churches. You have a temple of Gond, a temple of Tymora, a temple of Umberlee, shrines to Helm, Ilmater, Lathander, Oghma and Waukeen. You have diverse districts, with diverse factions such as a Thieves Guild, the Flaming Fist, the Companions of the Unicorn, the standard guard, The Merchant Guild, the Order of the Radiant Heart. Waterdeep has seven major temples.

I think Cordor really should give the feel of a large trade city. That way every sub-group is not spread out, but a good portion are close together and have the ability to provide rp for one another. I also love the idea of places like elf-town being actually in game.

As I wrote back in 2010:




Amia A: Winya Ravena, Cordor and Kohlingen
Amia B: Wiltun, Tarkuul

Finally, DMs who run cities should also do more than simply oversee with the rare plot every year or so. It should also be far more than simple reactions. If someone runs Bendir Dale, Barak Runedar or Kohlingen they should approach players with enjoyable rp. They should offer quests and plots to help make the place interactive and enjoyable.


The Design:
Next to the spread out server that should be remedied with design work, Amia has an extreme amount of areas that have not been properly updated since 2005 and 2007. In many places it simply does not compare with the quality other servers have achieved over the years. Because of this, it gives often a very unfinished feel in a great deal of areas and falls extremely short of the potential of what could be done by a talented designer with the haks available, and even without haks.

This should be a priority for the design/dev staff, as it is the most basic thing the players are confronted with. There are many areas that could use work and you can make an enormous change in atmosphere. Especially if the DMs would be willing to integrate more lore into the areas and work closely with the designers to achieve that.

Hunting Areas like the Yuan-ti and the Spires also need an update. Manor of Mourn too. Until now and since 2005 they are active areas because of their spawns, but are extremely bad in regard to the area design and the lore. The yuan-ti are simply put in a quickly designed dungeon with no regard to lore and the Spires do not remind anyone of a former dwarven hold. They are and they feel like badly thought out ways to add spawns to bash, and that simply is not right for a roleplay server.

Scripters can also do a great amount to add fun challenges in dungeons to confront the adventurers with. Conversations can add depth to areas by integrating culture and mentality of the location. Quests also help to create immersion into a world, and can be fun when adding new aspects to what can be done. For instance, transporting goods from cordor to guldorand could be an enjoyable quest - as you can add a ox with a certain amount of hp and ac you need to guard and lead there, as well as protect from the spawns.

If the server lacks capable designers, then recruit them from the playerbase. Give them a description of an area they are to design, and pick those who are good at it. Half-assed areas like South Cordor do not add to the server, they make it worse in quality. Having no diversity in cities does not aid either. Areas like Zanshibon do not do the abyss justice and need to be redone instead of ignoring a bad design since 2005.

In addition better work on places like Brogendenstein should not only be possible when there is an active playerbase there. You improve the areas that could be done much better for the atmosphere and an enjoyable gameplay for everyone.

It would also be nice to see some very challenging hunting/dungeon areas. Not only on a monster balance level, but on a riddle, arcane challenges and trap scale level.


In a Nutshell:
- Work with the community and strive for a more enjoyable atmosphere.
- Create an envoirment criminal and evil roleplay can flourish in again
- Bring the playerbase together so people can find rp easier again
- Create a more interactive world with plots
- Get a bigger design team to help:
------ intergrate lore
------ innovative ideas in areas, quest and dungeons
------ update areas for better quality, atmosphere and detail
------ more diverse cities
------ post level 30 difficulty dungeons with fearsome monsters, riddles and traps.

Simple solution. Ignore the players that keep bugging you OOCly. Ignore their questions. If they want to play along, they will. If not, whatever.

I personally do not answer OOC tells in 99%. And I have a filter on party chat all the time. I want to play a RP game, not a combination of Nwn and Facebook.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
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Obsidian (inactive)