AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Quote:

Simple solution. Ignore the players that keep bugging you OOCly. Ignore their questions. If they want to play along, they will. If not, whatever.

I personally do not answer OOC tells in 99%. And I have a filter on party chat all the time. I want to play a RP game, not a combination of Nwn and Facebook.

it's ok to do this if whatever was beign rped had really no impact on the ongoing plot, but when absolutely everythinig related to an external part of the characters influence needs DM approval, it gets very difficult.

What I'm getting at is that Amia used to be so much more popular then Arelith and other more 'strict' servers because Amia was an avenue for creative role play to take on a life of it's own with players being respected and allowed to role play all kinds of interesting, characters, plots, etc without strict rules on guidelines . .. and 'approvals' for playing a certain way, or playing a noble etc.
it turns off the playerbase. Too much Policing is the key problem.

Not saying that it has to be like oh so long time ago if you guys remember back when Cordor was filled with people sitting around the water with a hundred red dragon disciples walking about...and almost everyone had wings.. and fairies were roaming about.

but still at least creative role play was there without something having to go through so much policing, and risk having their ideas shot down on the request thread for not writing a three page proposal on why they should be allowed to play something.

My key points: Too much policing, not working with the playerbase on their characters/plots,
(simple example: new player comes on board not knowing anything about amia rules and starts to roleplay a type of race not allowed or a someone who was born rich as a noble- gets shot down and asked to send in a requests , which judging by history of approved requests translates to a 3-5 page proposal worthy of a dnd phd graduate on faerun lore on why he/she is worthy to play it.) that and not allowing evil to flourish/criminal activity as phearnun said.

I'll be honest, one of the few reasons I am still around, and even then I am not around as much as I once was is because of lack of things to do IRL. There are many reasons why people probably left Amia and why I would like to leave. But with a lifestyle like mine you have little to do with your time.

If I wasn't the way I am I'd likely have left quite a while ago..

Reasons for leaving, cliques, too cliquey is Amia. Trolls (I know this can't be helped really), rulebreakers, grievers, PvP happy hippo's, lack of commitment and/or enthusiasm from other people in terms of RP, God RP'ers, pride gamers, people having a lack of good manners and also lack of helpfulness to new comers to the server (Would give an example but it would likely be seen as a specific incident). Why are these not screenied you ask? Becuase if people were to screenshot every incident and reported it there'd be such little time to actually play.

After a long time of making character after character, thinking the problem was me being bored of the character before or not making them interesting or fun enough for me to stick with, I found that it is not infact with me the problem lies, but with other people, alot of the time I have experienced a lack of interest with interaction, people just standing around barely replying at all, now don't get me wrong I'm not one to tell people how to RP, how much to RP or even how little but it grows tedious when everyone and their sister seems to lack the will to RP back properly adding more than just "Yes" or "no".

It kills off my will to RP, or as stated often made me think I haven't made my character interestiing enough therefore making a new one in hopes this one is more a success than the last.

Evil went dead.
Good went bored.

Some of the things I've picked up on from players:

- Rental houses. Stimy large scale RP and promote cliqueishness.

- Way to many Towns, lacks a decent metropolis around which all RP evolves and revolves.

- The Development and DM team isn't brave enough to do sweeping changes to the server like what occured post Arelith/Amia split, 2007 update, Amia server split.

- Development seems to be bogged down in tweaking

- Summon system in the non-epic sense fucking sucks

- Things get buffed and nerfed, but other things, such as Illusion are left to wanking in the wind

- Lack of a single unified plot which all DM's take part in, in effect DM's are becoming spread around like butter, other servers have far fewer DM's but those DM's all work on the same plot

- Evil got shafted, came back, and got shafted again.

^ I'm don't exactly agree with many of these points, but I felt they needed to be made.

The server shut down is the main reason for my absence, that and that I have moved back to my home country for a last, very busy year at the university. But there are others things too of course, and they have been by and large mention earlier in the thread. What to me stands out as a problem is the lack of broad DM events and the ability of characters to influence the world they live in. The sad truth is that unless you know the right people, or are in the right PC group, you will miss out on most of what is going on.

What I think might help would be a better known over-arching plot that everyone had the opportunity to participate in. Sure, everyone can't wield influence all the time, but just having a good idea of what is going on would do a lot to help getting immersed and interested in the server. As it is now, and has been for a time, there are hints and subtle posts on the forums that can be pieced together if you are smart or happen to be in the right events, but I think we can safely assume that a majority of players are quite clueless as to what is going on IC on Amia. I definitely am. I will give props to Silent for all the effort he put into the dwarves though, and for being so accommodating of our ideas and wishes. That is the kind of gestures and opportunity that gets me interested.

I don't know how this will fly, but I think a reduction of settlements and more emphasise on the existing large ones would help getting PC's together for interactions, and perhaps some more encouragement to groups that wish to disturb the current state of affairs. A crime group would help for one. Giving a bit of leeway and encouragement to get such a group going from feeble beginnings may pay off in the end.

"Shake up the status quo" is a fine thing to say, but it begs the question of defining the "status quo." I don't think you'll be able to get any five people to agree on what exactly has fallen into a rut and needs to be changed. There's people in this thread saying there should be more DM involvement in individual players' plots, and people saying the DMs should be concentrating on overarching server-wide plot. Some people say there's too many factions, others say there's too few. There's either not enough evil RP, or "evil RP" is just a prettified euphemism for "PvP whore."

For every specific thing that one player says there's too much of, another will tell you that the problem is that there's not enough of it, and I think the among the problems is that Amia tries to come down on both sides. It seems to try to be everything to everybody: Come one come all, your loremonkeys and your gigglepokers, your powerbuilders and your RP builders, factioners and loners, PvPers and PvP cowards, bossgrinders and deep immersive RPers, there's a place for you here.

It's not enough to clamor for change. And you can't just assert what you want the server changed *from* without following that up with what you want it changed *to*. I think that in the server in general lacks an overall vision of what kind of server it wants to be and why. It has no strong mission statement.

My suggestion:

Appoint a head DM. Task this DM with defining a single unified direction the server is to move in, in the areas of RP, rules, and development. Adapt ongoing plots and dev items to this vision.

Last edited by Pony on Wed, Aug 22 2012, 15:28 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Yossarin wrote:

I would be interested to know what suggestions you have on that front, Silvarus.

Silvarus wrote:

Guardian wrote:

Items drop on death (some gold, some inventory) - this is a total eradicator of mindless PvP.

This idea, is AWESOME. Simple, straightforward and brilliant. Something like this would create reasonable consequences for failure, ways to actually make your opponents weaker by taking their epic gear, and make people actually take the risk of death seriously, without having to tweak other parts of death mechanics. When everyone is lvl 30, it is the items you bring to battles that you actually fear for.

This would however require some method of storing items off person, since characters going to war, to martyr themselves or otherwise taking calculated risks should be able to leave their most prized posessions home. I like risk and reward walking hand in hand, but you should be able to at least partially affect the amount of risk you are taking, if you see it coming. Don't wear what you can not afford to lose and so on.

EDIT: Saw Yossarin's post. Something like Guardian's idea above would completely change the face of PvP and create a lot of consequences for the conflicts where physically changing the world is not the goal. Many spesific physical changes are feasible as one-time toolset projects, but a lot more could possibly be implemented trough scripted mechanics. For example, it would be interesting if an evil group of players could activate an area where their opponents spawn and for as long as the area is marked as occupied in some database, the mechanics consider it the spawn location of the occupying group instead of the usual one, and would keep the normal peaceful NPC:s from spawning there until the occupied status is removed. (or the EO could invade Tarkuul or something like that.) Things like this would need minimal active work by the devs, but might even create a dynamic competition for control of faction bases.

There simply is no way to make the characters have real effect on the npc and pc sorrounding, without being affected themselves. Some times it happened, and those are some of the more memorable moments on amia for me.

I think the question is simply if the majority of the playerbase (I feel it does.) wishes the world to be more interactive and influencable, or if it wishes to stay in this very restrictive fashion. If the world should become more interactive, then a system needs to be worked on that allows this to happen in the best way, but also the acceptance of the playerbase that this is a two bladed sword that can not only cut others, but your own characters.

The Cordor Plot currently has the chance of permadeath, and for me that improves the rp considerably. The character needs to be more careful not to slip up. This danger of dying ensures that the political intrique feels like political intrique, where a sledgehammer will not be as effective as a finer tool. I also quite trust Yossarin not to simply narrate: "Robert slips on a piece of grass, breaks his neck and no ressurection magic will work." I think any or the majority of plots that have game-changing potential should be handled that way, even if permadeath might be very very rare.

The character conflict-interaction is stale, unless you have enormous luck with the other player. I am sure we all have experience with characters good or bad pulling a Valas (character who rp-s absolutely no consequences, popping up 3 seconds after being smacked to antagonize your character some more with sub-witty comments.) This can be especially anoying if it is a good character being in an evil dominated zone, or a evil character being in a good dominated zone.

I for one think a similiar system as potm uses would be the most fun. If you kill another character, that character is knocked out for ten minutes. The victor has a few options how to handle your body:

1) Leave Unconsious (Respawnable 10min)
2) Kill (Character lays dead until raised)
3) Kill + Carry (Character is put in the inventory, can be dropped where ever)
4) Burn / Behead (Leaves only bones that need to be ressurected by cleric)
5) Burn and Carry (Ressurectable + Carryable)
6) Bind + Carry (Character can be transported alive for interrogation)

Gold and Items are untouched, but the characters suffer from a loss in pvp depending on the victors whim. If the bad guys use the most harsh method, they can count on the same from others. However, in certain cases to for instance try to keep someone from spilling the beans on something going down soon. You can use the burn and carry methods to try to shut him up for some time until some one either true ressurects with a dm, finds the person who has the skull or divines the location of the skull.

Misuse of the system through griefing will of course be harshly punished.

Just a note to thank Guardian for his suggestion on PCs losing loot on death - that single line threatened the status quo so dearly that it got a bunch of folks who wouldn't have otherwise looked or commented here to do so.

Honeydew Snugglepoof wrote:

The character conflict-interaction is stale, unless you have enormous luck with the other player. I am sure we all have experience with characters good or bad pulling a Valas (character who rp-s absolutely no consequences, popping up 3 seconds after being smacked to antagonize your character some more with sub-witty comments.) This can be especially anoying if it is a good character being in an evil dominated zone, or a evil character being in a good dominated zone.

Which brings another thing that I do not fully understand. Why there is an option to return back to the place where you died after death? If you die to a PvP, I think Honey's approach is great. The options he posted seems good to me, definately a material to work with. If you die to NPC and hit respawn, there is no fugue plane, no options --> You will wake up (and lucky you are) in a hospice on neutral grounds, saved by an unknown force (be it deity, random adventurer, fate).

TYP wrote:

Lots o' stuff

What you said about Evil is unfortunately true. Very little is 'seen' both IG and on the forums, and it's disheartening. Even I have taken a step back from my evil characters (that's mostly because of lack of drive to get my Evil Plots moving, unfortunately), so I'm not pointing fingers. One thing, however, I have seen from the forums is that apparently the old Evil People believe that the world is out to get them, and it's pointless to play Evil. I cannot agree with that, however it's pointless to argue about since that is their mindset. So, a lot of them left, which I think is stupid but oh well.

Glim wrote:

"Rebooting" to level one and such as you've described is not something the staff would force the entire server to do; that would alienate far more people than it would bring in. Especially when there are other solutions to the problems you've described.

I have to agree. While I would not mind starting my characters off again, I completely understand that some would not like it (either because they hate tedious leveling, which is understandable, or because they have more selfish desires).

NinjaClarinet wrote:

The evil RP is there if you look. Oh, and I've never had to resort to PvP to do it.

This! Don't make me get my Evil People back IG and help show you how it's done. It seriously won't be a Good Thing :twisted:

(absolutely no pun intended).

Guardian wrote:

I said it before, I will say it again. A vast issue I see is the powerbuilding thread. One should create a character that fits him best. Unfortunately, people do tend to create powerbuilds instead, which results in solo hunting and easy PvP. I dislike PvP in general - not that I am completely against it, absolutely not, but there is a huge difference between solid PvP and bad PvP.

I just wanted to point out that it is not supposed to be a powerbuilding thread. In fact, there are many of us that discourage builds like that being discussed. I have, though I have zero power haha, told people to gtfo of the thread when I see offensive builds. Because you can tell when someone is just trying to make an uber build. Of course, you will get the asses that go 'oh, do this, or that, hurf durf.' and help out -_-

Yossarin wrote:

Just a note to thank Guardian for his suggestion on PCs losing loot on death - that single line threatened the status quo so dearly that it got a bunch of folks who wouldn't have otherwise looked or commented here to do so.

In case I forgot to comment on that (ie can't be arsed to look at the rest of my post right now), here is my opinion:

I am a player that does not like PvP. I find it goes hand in hand with RP at times, but I stay away from it as much as possible. In addition, I don't like soloing. It's boring and party-hunting is fun as all fuck. Both things said, I have reservations about doing something like this but I wouldn't gripe if it was implemented. My reservations are solely based on two things.
1) Other people having issues dealing with it
2) Would this apply to PvP? I would prefer it to only be for non-PvP death, but that is because of my past PvP experience. Both times, I was randomly beset with PvP and had no way of avoiding it (literally, I was suddenly dead as a bystander). But, that's only happened twice in the two plus years I have been here, so it's not a huge concern.

Differentiate power build from a really strong build, please. Power builders don't RP their classes.

Edit: Okay, that was bad of me to veer away from the topic. I even had something to say that was relevant but didn't post it. *Derps badly*. I don't think PvP is really much of an issue at its core. Its just when its pointless or instigated is when it becomes a real problem. I find I only actually enjoy PvP when its on an arena server or when it has some actual purpose to the goal at hand. Which in my opinion is how it should be looked at, not like "Good finds evil/evil finds good and they clash instantly." or "Power build vs RP Build."

Lizzie wrote:

"Shake up the status quo" is a fine thing to say, but it begs the question of defining the "status quo." I don't think you'll be able to get any five people to agree on what exactly has fallen into a rut and needs to be changed. There's people in this thread saying there should be more DM involvement in individual players' plots, and people saying the DMs should be concentrating on overarching server-wide plot. Some people say there's too many factions, others say there's too few. There's either not enough evil RP, or "evil RP" is just a prettified euphemism for "PvP whore."

For every specific thing that one player says there's too much of, another will tell you that the problem is that there's not enough of it, and I think the among the problems is that Amia tries to come down on both sides. It seems to try to be everything to everybody: Come one come all, your loremonkeys and your gigglepokers, your powerbuilders and your RP builders, factioners and loners, PvPers and PvP cowards, bossgrinders and deep immersive RPers, there's a place for you here.

It's not enough to clamor for change. And you can't just assert what you want the server changed *from* without following that up with what you want it changed *to*. I think that in the server in general lacks an overall vision of what kind of server it wants to be and why. It has no strong mission statement.

My suggestion:

Appoint a head DM. Task this DM with defining a single unified direction the server is to move in, in the areas of RP, rules, and development. Adapt ongoing plots and dev items to this vision.

Lizzie, you are great. Having thought about what you wrote, I completly agree that amia is a patchwork of different styles that the server tried to please as best it can, without ever being itself defined properly as what type it is. Having wrote all I did with the specifics I feel dumb of having written so much, as I think it simply does come down to that the server needs a unified direction that will determine what it wants to become. Is it conflict-supportive or not, if high fantasy or low fantasy, hack and slash or rp oriented, etc. What you wrote kinda sums it up and I think it is the best course, even if it may turn out to go in a different direction than I like.

At worst it becomes something cool for some people, while boring for me. But that still would be better than this vegetative mix of nothing and everything.

Fortunately for you guys, the DM Team came to that conclusion months ago and we have been looking in that unified direction.

Several Amians tried out other servers when Amia's server crashed, and remained on the servers thereafter because they said they were getting more role play out of it. To me, Amia has one major flaw.

Amia lacks player-based change. Everything on the server is dependent on DMs. While our DMs certainly keep working hard to change the world in hopes of keeping the server fresh and hip, none of these changes can be effected by the players on their own time in-game. As a result, I've noticed many players, who I've never seen around regularly, logging in exclusively during DM events because they have nothing to strive for when DM aren't around. Epic characters spend all their time loot farming. Major faction leaders never change even though most don't play regularly anymore, while the newbies who do play frequently have no way to attempt to replace them.

What can be done? Well firstly I'd recommend introducing an election system into all the cities and towns. New candidates could propose changes and spend time gathering supporters to vote for them which generates a lot of RP and gives new factions a goal. The elected mayors could then create new laws (good or evil) based on faction/majority-voter wishes and establish guard systems to uphold them. It will also help get players more involved in the quieter settlements and prevent stagnancy since new players can take over whenever old leaders lose interest in playing. Of course, if the older leaders start playing again more frequently then they can always try to make a comeback, which in turn generates rp for them.

Naivatkal wrote:

NinjaClarinet wrote:

The evil RP is there if you look. Oh, and I've never had to resort to PvP to do it.

This! Don't make me get my Evil People back IG and help show you how it's done. It seriously won't be a Good Thing :twisted:

(absolutely no pun intended).

But this is the problem, isn't it? If I don't have the OOC connect, how do I get in on 'evil' RP? Suppose I wanted to play a criminal in Cordor ... where would I even start? Without an active presence on the server you leave people who don't already know in the lurch.

Also, on the feedback note, I'd like to see less Good vs Evil and more faction vs faction. Make the existing factions compete for scarce resources and watch the angst begin. I'm personally not a fan of 'Evil' RP because it becomes cartoony quickly, while a group of do-gooders at each other's throats over dwindling food supplies for their respective people ... priceless.

Yossarin wrote:

Fortunately for you guys, the DM Team came to that conclusion months ago and we have been looking in that unified direction.

Then share it with us!

I really do think that the problem underlying most of the other problems discussed here is that 1.) every player has their own individual opinion of what the server is "supposed to be like," and 2.) nobody's making any effort to tell them otherwise. Everybody's dead certain that their suggestions are sensible and productive, and everybody's *right*, because their suggestions would make Amia more like what they want it to be. I maintain that we need to be told, "No, we're the sort of place that looks for X, Y, and Z in our gaming experience. That other stuff you're looking for is great and valid, but it's just not what we encourage here."

We can't adapt to the mission statement if we don't know what it is. Once people are told (this is for example only!) that "Amia is a place where strong player-driven factions are encouraged to exist and make their mark on each other and on the world, and characters should have a strong grounding in FR lore," then people can either get on board and adapt, or say "no, thanks" and try to find their fun elsewhere. It can't be a behind-the-scenes thing, it needs to be a publicly proclaimed raison d'etre: "This, not that, is the kind of place Amia is. This, not that, is the kind of thing we love to see here."

I think some nice scripts would be attractive. Not too much, perhaps guards on patrols, which interact with PC's should they have weapons drawn, or helmets on, and the like, excluding staffs. Staffs are cool. Also custom spells, and I don't mean request ones, or overpowered ones, just random pnp spells that could give more choice and utility for Clerics, Bards, Wizards, Sorcerers, and other classes. I have no idea if Assassins actually have a proper spell book, but that would be fun. Spells like Alter self, or Disguise self would be fun to see too.

I have no idea if there is a reason this hasn't been done yet, excluding the obvious finding scripters to actually do it, and i'd assume there would be need for more HAK updates too.

I've been nagging for a unified direction for a few years now. I agree with Lizzy, but I'm also wonderful and perfect and know that my opinion is the best one, and that's why I've been supporting gritty, "hardcore" changes. I like to think I've been pretty transparent in advocating them, knowing and admitting full well that it will alienate some player but that to truly excel at something, a server cannot try to dabble in everything.

That said, it's a pretty empty mission statement from me. I lack the good ideas and, if I were a DM, I would probably lack the energy and resources to make it happen. So I'm pretty happy that people more creative and enthusiastic see the point too, and try to realize their own vision.

Alot of it has to do with simple burnout, you can only play a game for so long before you get bored, and go try something else for awile. Amia STILL has one of the largest player bases out of all NWN servers still active, when you play a niche server, the numbers are always lower because only one type of person plays on it

That being said, most of anything involving any plot progression on Amia is most requires a DM for everything, and you need to specifically know people of a certain clique OOC in order to even be involved in it on most cases. It is very hard for a new player or a outsider to get involved in many plots due to certain factions only accepting people who RP a specific way.

One thing many evil players have told me is, to many people metgame them actually being a bad guy just by what spells or abilities they use, when such things would not visually have any IG indicator. Such as you could not see a BG Aura of Despair IG, but people Metagame knowing the aura is up OOC (your character IC would never see a BG aura), but that also goes for other spells. Your character IC would never know someone has True Sight, Protection from Elements, Spell Mantle, or Globe of Invulnurability because they have no IC effects your character can see

Halecta wrote:

Such as you could not see a BG Aura of Despair IG, but people Metagame knowing the aura is up OOC (your character IC would never see a BG aura)...

No, but if you're in the aura's "visual radius" you can feel it, so that reaction is entirely IC. Though I do happen to agree about some of the other VFX you mentioned.

Actually, on a few occasions I've been told that BG auras /are/ visible. Which is it?

P Three wrote:

Actually, on a few occasions I've been told that BG auras /are/ visible. Which is it? :P

Auras are never visible. Discernible maybe, if they affect you. I disagree with people 'feeling' the Aura of Despair when it explicitly affects enemies only. The whole 'unfriendly to you' category is iffy and I really think we should roll with NWN limitations. If it doesn't affect you mechanically, it shouldn't affect you ICly either. It is just food for meta to go any other route, unless evil people are given alternatives, like the ability to suppress their malicious stuff so it wouldn't be discernible.

Relevant to topic, btw. This is one of the things that grinds my gears, it's stupidly hard to play an evil character in a persistent world (Everyone is immortal, unless a DM is involved - or the opposite player in question is very dedicated to RP.) where you can't even silence any witnesses permanently.

Last edited by RaveN on Wed, Aug 22 2012, 18:06 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I've always wished that death penalties were more severe in some way, for example, raise scrolls simply didn't exist, and you had to carry a corpse object somewhere to have it healed for a donation or something.

That, and having people respawning (or just clicking the word respawn) and pretending they never died in the first place, and effectively not being enforced to roleplay any trauma from the incident whatsoever more or less makes me think 10 times over before anything I do involves another player dying, because I've learned my lessons the hard way that alot of people will just do what they want and since there's zero rules on it, it makes me wonder why I'm left dealing with them, and then other times, there's people who are actually willing to roleplay consequences.

Most of this issue is caused mainly by Lizzie's suggestion and problem; and that's that we need to figure out what we want. I personally would prefer it the way I described, but I'd also prefer more lenient death penalties if it meant we could have consistency, that way I could know what to expect from the impact of death, for example. This kind of applies for other things as well too.

TYP wrote:

But this is the problem, isn't it? If I don't have the OOC connect, how do I get in on 'evil' RP? Suppose I wanted to play a criminal in Cordor ... where would I even start? Without an active presence on the server you leave people who don't already know in the lurch.

I had plans for a major crime thing in Cordor which almost got somewhere (which I never pursued because I'm a moron), but I'd suggest looking around any evil or shady cities and seeing what you can turn up. Even if your end-goal is somewhere far off. Chances are you might find people just chilling and waiting for the opportunity or someone to take the lead. If you can't find anyone in-game (and I do try to make myself accessible IG to a fair extent), forum posts might be the way to go.

On the subject of "Evil RP" though - and I hope not to derail this thread because what could be discussed has been argued to death - but the last big, major thing was started up by a single ambitious player. They had an uphill battle with making progress, because they did go up against good PCs who, understandably, did what they had to do in forming opposition, but the fact that they were numerous and entrenched made it difficult. But it -was- going somewhere despite that and would have made a proper impact if the player hadn't disappeared. Maybe we need to take another shot at something grand like that. I dunno.

This part is just my view on why newer players are slightly discouraged and older ones are getting bored.

As before mentioned the housing system, where yes I do like it, but it does remove rp interaction. At one point back when the server was booming with always 60+ or so everyone was always inside a house thus not able to be reached to roleplay with. For a new player to realized and see on the player list that the server has sixty players online yet never able to bump into one is very discouraging.

Despite the fact of me loving to see new areas being added and other areas expanded on, most can claim it does not change that much. By expanding the server further and further we are placing more and more distance between PCs, which leads to the same issue as before roleplaying by yourself is very boring. Personally I think inward development would be more productive then expansion, changing areas that have never been touched rather adding more things.

To go more in-depth there hunting grounds as a large don't change or alter, and become stagnant over time. Part of this is uncertainty and why make a risk over something you do not have to. By that hunting parties instead of exploring and deciding to hunt something different its always the same trend 90% of the time:

Cordor Rats
Kolbolds
Orcs or Trogs
Darkhold or Bandits
She'Kats or Malarites
Sand Minotaurs
Quig lizardmen
Yuanti or Brog barbians or Brog Orcs
Then whatever and begin loot hunting in epic loot areas.

Part of this I honestly believe is due to being unaware realistically to all the other hunting areas within the parties respected level range and few reasons to go somewhere else. Minievents or quests I think could rectify this, of course giving a reason those areas are not assessable as well. Believe we all recall during the She'Kat event and not being able to hunt there we began to look else where for new hunting grounds.

Last edited by Theander on Wed, Aug 22 2012, 18:31 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Reading through this, I see two things standing out regularly above all

PvP

Evil inactive.

Dotpoints for the rant that will follow:
1. Conflict - which is generated most often and obviously by evil and PvP - is crucial for good RP.
2. Cordor sucks, it's in no way a roleplaying hub due to portal restrictions and being constantly in the docks where there is nothing interesting and it's the furtherst point from everything, and I should be able to cause trouble and then have to suffer the consequences, not be banned from doing anything. If that means DMs activating the Lv 40 NPC guards on my arse, go do it.
3. DMs, there needs to be more online, and they need to Create Intrigue (hell, I'll volunteer, I had a rep for good roleplay four years ago, there are several players who can vouch for me, and I have a lot of free time where you guys seem to not).
4. Long lasting consequences are great, but they should be well organized DM/player collaborative events, and shouldn't happen often. However, player based factions Should have a voice in instigating said events (and I mean an actual voice direct to the DMs or a DM representing them). If an individual can't have an effect, a collection of individuals can and should.
5. No safe zones. Anywhere. No non-pvp zones, no non-portal zones. Exceptions being in specific buildings or DM goverened events where it can be argued that someone or something is actively restricting portal travel, but that requires a DM present, even then, being a fugitive is much more fun.

(I'm going to drop this point in here on lack of DMs. In the last two weeks of playing almost every night Australia time and quite often during the day, I have seen four DMs, total, and one of them is while I write this post).

WARNING: RANTING AHEAD (Shorthand above)

Almost everything people have said on these is right, PvP has whiners and lovers, and it creates conflict. Evil creates conflict, and is often very PvP centric. Conflict, creates good roleplay. You lose PvP or Evil, and almost all the conflict goes out the window.

I left four years ago not long after the IC departure of my favourite character Velkyn Velve. He was a drow, he was AMAZING fun, and he wasn't incredibly well built. However, he was an RP character. Back then, PvP happened. A lot. As a drow, every time I came to the surface people tried to kill me, or I was on a raid trying to kill them. Not getting killed involved hiding my identity or a lot of fast talking. That made for great RP. This character got torture scenes, got plots and intrigue, raised up and almost collapsed an entire drow house, and all through this, PvP happened. Not only that, but he had goals that could CHANGE things because the player base was so high and in a drow house that was entirely run by players, your actions DID matter (at least as far as the player could be concerned).

I came back about two weeks ago. Apparently just after the server crash. What have I seen? Well, first off, the player base has dropped. So not as much potential for RP as there used to be. That's fine, I can deal with that. I create a new character, walk into Cordor.... No one. There is NO ONE in Cordor over half the time I'm on (and that can be most of the day). Why is that? Because there's nothing to keep them there. There's nothing interesting in the docks, so why hang around there? Cordor East sometimes has people, but half the time they're in AFK because it's a 'safe zone'. Most of the people who are actually active LEAVE Cordor because it's frankly unfriendly to adventurers, and that's not the NPCs, that's the mechanics. I have to leave Cordor in order to do any portalling, I have to run to Bendir Dale in order to meet with people since it's easier to get out of there in game. Conclusion: I'm not spending any time in Cordor except to get out of it. Result: There is NO Roleplaying hub.

So my first opinion of Amia when coming back is that Cordor is in every way unfriendly to me as a PLAYER, not to my character: Everytime you portal in it's to an area where there's nothing around. Everytime you portal in your first priority is to LEAVE the zone you are currently in so that you can find other players/hunt, and there's no way to easily get there when porting is disallowed, it now takes several minutes of potential roleplaying time in order to leave and port to Tarkuul or somewhere else. That detracts from my experience as my character is effectively on hiatus for another 5 minutes the moment I arrive, and does NOT allow for speedy re-entry into the world. (Waukeen temple was SO much better, step into the game world and you're practically in a market, you can imagine that you're character just walked in there in the downtime, and you're bumping into people even on off periods because everyone is in there to buy resurrection scrolls, as opposed to the docks where I can't explain what I'm doing there - what do I sleep on a boat? - and there's nothing for me to do but run out).

Now, I've never been one for PvP building. Sure, I like a character that can hold his own, but RP comes first. To each their own, some people like PvP and some run away from it, fine, that's good. But I've created a character who is basically Edwin from Baldur's Gate II... and nothing. I'm getting very little good banter, I'm not getting much insight into player characters... the RP is... stale. PvP includes RP conflict, not just a one off battle. Don't get me wrong, there are some great roleplayers on here, but no one takes the bait anymore. I made this character on the basis that people would kick his ARSE if they stood up to him. He's all talk and fluster, and he gets flustered VERY easily. Without that element of PvP action, without that excitement... which basically tells me that the world is populated by players who are neutral and/or good and well mannered. Honestly, when my character starts insulting your integrity trying to provoke an emotional response, I can understand a few characters/players not giving him one... but all of them? Now before I sound like I'm whining I'd like to point out that the MOST fun I've ever had has been with evil characters, and that's playing them and playing against them. There are no outwardly evil characters on the server. The characters/players online now are not used to roleplaying with and against conflict. Now that's a player problem, but it's precipitated by shutting Cordor off as a place that evil/malicious characters (read characters, not players) can pull stunts and have fun. It's also precipitated by the fact that there even IS such a thing as a safe zone (honestly, one of the things that got me hooked when I started 6 years ago was spawning into Cordor just after someone let a Balor loose on the city, that was FANTASTIC).

In other words, I WANT conflict. And PvP is an amazing way to do it. If the Cordor guard rock up and kill me, or I get banned from Cordor because of my actions, so be it, but it's GOT to happen In Character. As it stands now, every time I appear in Cordor I feel uncomfortable because I can't do anything there, and that's with good and bad characters. Seriously, there should never be safe zones. Fighting in the streets is awesome, and it makes everything so much more alive.

Okay, long post, going to stop ranting now. I'd also like to support most of what has been said before me, as there are some fantastic points in there, especially from Iron Angel and Sylvarus. I do not like the idea of losing the loot I've been trying to get for a long time in PvP (at level 22 that can be an absolute bitch, and as someone who in his two to three years of playing in his early years never got beyond L23 ever, that would be a royal b*tch), but I'm not going to say outright no to it either. Cordor however is in my opinion vital. Without Cordor as an RP hub, Amia does not HAVE an RP hub, and on an RP server, that's kicking yourself in the teeth. Fix Cordor, then things will change.

Can I suggest that if you want a thieves guild or to be a mastermind criminal, do it absolutely anywhere EXCEPT the starting city filled with baby-statted newbies who might want just one place to avoid confrontational rp?

Because new players are never going to compete with any skill / combat dice roll from a more advanced PC, and seeing criminals who could kill you with one blow succeed against the authority of the city that is meant to be protecting you isn't the most empowering intro to Amia rp.

There are other cities. There are cities in higher-level areas, where level 2's don't have to do their shopping.

If it adds flavour, great. If it involves pickpocketing or threatening newbies, find something else for this particular zone?

On 'evil creates conflict, which is good for rp' I'd agree. Evil acts such as the recent plague are brilliant - low level characters can get involved cleaning it up, and don't have to take on level 30 pvpers in order to achieve anything.

Evil being around is fantastic for everyone, but (for example) Banites turning up individually and killing PCs in person while anyone less than 25 can only tut about it, is less brilliant for most of the server.

Theander wrote:

Reading through this, I see two things standing out regularly above all

PvP

Evil inactive.

Dotpoints for the rant that will follow:
1. Conflict - which is generated most often and obviously by evil and PvP - is crucial for good RP
2. Cordor sucks, it's in no way a roleplaying hub due to portal restrictions and being constantly in the docks where there is nothing interesting and it's the furtherst point from everything, and I should be able to cause trouble and then have to suffer the consequences, not be banned from doing anything.
3. DMs, there needs to be more and they need to Create Intrigue (hell, I'll volunteer, I had a rep for good roleplay four years ago, there are several players who can vouch for me, and I have a lot of free time where you guys seem to not).
4. Long lasting consequences are great, but they should be well organized DM/player collaborative events, and shouldn't happen often. However, player based factions Should have a voice in instigating said events (and I mean an actual voice direct to the DMs or a DM representing them).

(I'm going to drop this point in here on lack of DMs. In the last two weeks of playing almost every night Australia time and quite often during the day, I have seen four DMs, total, and one of them is while I write this post).

WARNING: RANTING AHEAD (Shorthand above)

Almost everything people have said on these is right, PvP has whiners and lovers, and it creates conflict. Evil creates conflict, and is often very PvP centric. Conflict, creates good roleplay. You lose PvP or Evil, and almost all the conflict goes out the window.

I left four years ago not long after the IC departure of my favourite character Velkyn Velve. He was a drow, he was AMAZING fun, and he wasn't incredibly well built. However, he was an RP character. Back then, PvP happened. A lot. As a drow, every time I came to the surface people tried to kill me, or I was on a raid trying to kill them. Not getting killed involved hiding my identity or a lot of fast talking. That made for great RP. This character got torture scenes, got plots and intrigue, raised up and almost collapsed an entire drow house, and all through this, PvP happened. Not only that, but he had goals that could CHANGE things because the player base was so high and in a drow house that was entirely run by players, your actions DID matter (at least as far as the player could be concerned).

I came back about two weeks ago. Apparently just after the server crash. What have I seen? Well, first off, the player base has dropped. So not as much potential for RP as there used to be. That's fine, I can deal with that. I create a new character, walk into Cordor.... No one. There is NO ONE in Cordor over half the time I'm on (and that can be most of the day). Why is that? Because there's nothing to keep them there. There's nothing interesting in the docks, so why hang around there? Cordor East sometimes has people, but half the time they're in AFK because it's a 'safe zone'. Most of the people who are actually active LEAVE Cordor because it's frankly unfriendly to adventurers, and that's not the NPCs, that's the mechanics. I have to leave Cordor in order to do any portalling, I have to run to Bendir Dale in order to meet with people since it's easier to get out of there in game. Conclusion: I'm not spending any time in Cordor except to get out of it. Result: There is NO Roleplaying hub.

So my first opinion of Amia when coming back is that Cordor is in every way unfriendly to me as a PLAYER, not to my character: Everytime you portal in it's to an area where there's nothing around. Everytime you portal in your first priority is to LEAVE the zone you are currently in so that you can find other players/hunt, and there's no way to easily get there when porting is disallowed, it now takes several minutes of potential roleplaying time in order to leave and port to Tarkuul or somewhere else. That detracts from my experience as my character is effectively on hiatus for another 5 minutes the moment I arrive, and does NOT allow for speedy re-entry into the world. (Waukeen temple was SO much better, step into the game world and you're practically in a market, you can imagine that you're character just walked in there in the downtime, and you're bumping into people even on off periods because everyone is in there to buy resurrection scrolls, as opposed to the docks where I can't explain what I'm doing there - what do I sleep on a boat? - and there's nothing for me to do but run out).

Now, I've never been one for PvP building. Sure, I like a character that can hold his own, but RP comes first. To each their own, some people like PvP and some run away from it, fine, that's good. But I've created a character who is basically Edwin from Baldur's Gate II... and nothing. I'm getting very little good banter, I'm not getting much insight into player characters... the RP is... stale. PvP includes RP conflict, not just a one off battle. Don't get me wrong, there are some great roleplayers on here, but no one takes the bait anymore. I made this character on the basis that people would kick his ARSE if they stood up to him. He's all talk and fluster, and he gets flustered VERY easily. Without that element of PvP action, without that excitement... which basically tells me that the world is populated by players who are neutral and/or good and well mannered. Honestly, when my character starts insulting your integrity trying to provoke an emotional response, I can understand a few characters/players not giving him one... but all of them? Now before I sound like I'm whining I'd like to point out that the MOST fun I've ever had has been with evil characters, and that's playing them and playing against them. There are no outwardly evil characters on the server. The characters/players online now are not used to roleplaying with and against conflict. Now that's a player problem, but it's precipitated by shutting Cordor off as a place that evil/malicious characters (read characters, not players) can pull stunts and have fun. It's also precipitated by the fact that there even IS such a thing as a safe zone (honestly, one of the things that got me hooked when I started 6 years ago was spawning into Cordor just after someone let a Balor loose on the city, that was FANTASTIC).

In other words, I WANT conflict. And PvP is an amazing way to do it. If the Cordor guard rock up and kill me, or I get banned from Cordor because of my actions, so be it, but it's GOT to happen In Character. As it stands now, every time I appear in Cordor I feel uncomfortable because I can't do anything there, and that's with good and bad characters. Seriously, there should never be safe zones. Fighting in the streets is awesome, and it makes everything so much more alive.

Okay, long post, going to stop ranting now. I'd also like to support most of what has been said before me, as there are some fantastic points in there, especially from Iron Angel and Sylvarus. I do not like the idea of losing the loot I've been trying to get for a long time in PvP (at level 22 that can be an absolute bitch, and as someone who in his two to three years of playing in his early years never got beyond L23 ever, that would be a royal b*tch), but I'm not going to say outright no to it either. Cordor however is in my opinion vital. Without Cordor as an RP hub, Amia does not HAVE an RP hub, and on an RP server, that's kicking yourself in the teeth. Fix Cordor, then things will change.

As a Cordor Guard and reading this part of me agrees with it, but also there is many plots involving Cordor that large number of people avoid it for. The wands not working, yes is a pain and an inconvenience, but as Yossi mentioned this can be changed by someone deciding to go about doing it. The no pvp trust me is just as much a pain for the guards as it is for the evil that wish to cause issues, something I slightly wish would be removed. But nothing prevents evil from taking and controlling a foot hole in the sewers, something I would love to see someone just needs to break the ice.

Hey, don't look at me. I tried to remove Cordor's no PVP thing and got told no. Nothing would make me happier than seeing your blood run red in the streets.

Evil tried to take a foothold in the sewers before, several times :/ I'll just leave it at that. Maybe the next people will be have better luck than I did before.

steveb_uk wrote:

Can I suggest that if you want a thieves guild or to be a mastermind criminal, do it absolutely anywhere EXCEPT the starting city filled with baby-statted newbies who might want just one place to avoid confrontational rp?

Because new players are never going to compete with any skill / combat dice roll from a more advanced PC, and seeing criminals who could kill you with one blow succeed against the authority of the city that is meant to be protecting you isn't the most empowering intro to Amia rp.

There are other cities. There are cities in higher-level areas, where level 2's don't have to do their shopping.

If it adds flavour, great. If it involves pickpocketing or threatening newbies, find something else for this particular zone?

It can be certainly done in Cordor, but bashing on the newbies would be just rude. Course, IC they can be left along because they don't have anything, and you can't be forced into PvP anyways (or give up gold/items to another player), so they are protected while still getting RP out of it.

Yossarin wrote:

Hey, don't look at me. I tried to remove Cordor's no PVP thing and got told no. Nothing would make me happier than seeing your blood run red in the streets.

And this is why we <3 you.

Yossarin wrote:

Hey, don't look at me. I tried to remove Cordor's no PVP thing and got told no. Nothing would make me happier than seeing your blood run red in the streets.

Nice Yoss. Though back on subject, I fully support evil in Cordor and am more then willing to give advice or anything I can. Hell if you even want to make sure my toon is about to try to catch you or be kidnapped I'ld be game. :twisted:

Last edited by 555444333 on Wed, Aug 22 2012, 19:05 PM, edited 1 time in total.

You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes well you might find
You get what you need

More aphorisms and witticisms from the greats that I find are relevant. Bring back Evil. Make it actually appealing to play by letting player actions on both sides affect the world they're in. Let's have the whole world against those of us who choose to take it on, but let's make it so that's something to exult in, rather than whinge about...

This means perhaps stepping back a bit from the current policy with regards... requests, PvP... most things really - let people go 'I have this idea and ...' and go 'hmm, okay that could be fun!' instead of 'No'. I find that it is so restrictive compared to when I started here, that I don't even bother really still, it's famously known that the older things get (dictatorships usually) they get more authoritarian before liberalising.. so c'mon, lets have an upsurge. Regards my current stable of characters and my reason for providing commentary, I do actually play on Amia these days again. I have a drow mage that is quietly doing his thing but that's about it. I login B-mia UD and I'm usually the only person on Server for several hours. Euro timezone tends to have seen the greatest bleed of players, which I don't find particularly surprising...

And I'll repeat it here again, since I said it first ~ You can't please everyone.

Oh and Yoss, bring PvP onto the streets. If we're having Cordor in Serious-mode, let's see the level 40 Law Knights out and about occasionally. Let's see guards beating the crap out of adventurers who think they know better than the law. Let's have some notable NPC's beyond the guy whose on the gate. Let's have a couple of corrupt guards who're always mumping a pint in the Nomad. Let's make Cordor feel like an actual city, with an active police force. Integrate PC's into the guard system rather than having them as a separate division, let PC's get to the top of the guard system and let them know that if they vanish for six months at a time that their second in line gets the job, no backsies. If the guards seem alive, perhaps everyone else will behave like they are too. Take Ankh Morpork as your model and kick over the themepark... A city of trade and the main fixture is a townhall and a temple to a goddess of money. Good start. Now let's remodel... I'd love to see Cordor made denser - right now it's too open. It's a city, but a dead one. If South Cordor is a slum, make it feel like one. Have alleyways and hairpin turns and houses of negotiable affection... Get rid of/integrate into East & West, Cordor Central. It's a deadspace to run from A to B and back through.

And so on.

...

Heck, ask nicely and I'd make it for you.

555444333 wrote:

Bring back Evil.

To be perfectly honest, I want to bring back my main evil char. RP took a turn with me secondary, but that's cool cause the people that character rolls with are awesome! But for the original ... I need to get in the right mindset. That character has a very specific personality that is quite scary, soo.. yep.

I'll get with that PC's semi-cohort and see what we can cook up. I need something!

To Bring Back Evil, the climate has to be right. We've got plenty of soil (too much I feel personally) and a few shoots, but they don't tend to do well and struggle. My main complaint is that when I joined Amia, Cordor was two exterior areas, three if you count the graveyard. It's now 5. And so on. The server is getting flabby.

More evil characters should looking into stepping out of the "The only way to be evil is to PvP", and instead work on "take over the world" plots instead.

The best evil villians are the ones who never lift a sword

Evil works best when it gives a plot for the good guys to fight against, rather then a specific individual to work against, but such things also require DM attention

I'm going to go in an opposite direction and suggest that "evil RP" and evil characters have been more fruitful, more successful, and more plentiful than it has been in the past. Due to what? I have my own theories but I would rather not share it and then have my words stuffed down my throat because of an assumption.

The way I see it, given I have a character that is proactively attempting to track the criminal/evil growth the server, it's prospering and multi-jointed. The server as a whole is facing a fantastic surge of evil which has crippled several areas on the island. Cordor. Gulorand. Kampo's Storehouse. Cliffside Village. It's become an uphill battle to try and shove back "evil" meccas which have been given a foothold in the server. It is much easier to destroy than it is to build, and currently "evil" has the resources to continue to destroy and destroy well.

I won't say what kind of evil RP is the best. I've seen all flavors and all hues. I just want to say that it is alive and it's more well off than it ever has been before. The server climate has changed.

Edit: Jointly, I've seen more of a decline in characters that have "good" agendas, and our obvious goody-two-shoes. Maybe it's just because I haven't been playing as much, but I've noticed more players I recognize putting their goodies on a shelf and playing evil.

Yossarin wrote:

Hey, don't look at me. I tried to remove Cordor's no PVP thing and got told no. Nothing would make me happier than seeing your blood run red in the streets.

Push it through! For the greater good.

I'm going to lay it out straight for those of you who either want evil to flourish so that good isn't so bored. People on both sides of the fence seem to desire this.

Stop looking to the DMs as though we need to "fix" something or "change" something to allow this to happen. Not only have I been here for many years, but I have been in a higher and more omniscient position than most of the people levelling their complaints. I have had a broader scope and spectrum of the entire problem.

The fact is, most of you have talked yourselves into a funk. The more you keep hearing things like what Needled stated above (not bashing you, Needled, we've discussed this and I know there is validity to what you say), the more you all keep giving up. You don't even try, and those who do try aren't willing to do the same things that the good people are: make sacrifices. Certain evil factions have wanted to jump in bed with certain NPC evil factions around plots I run, but when they realize it is more complicated than just a handshake and a wink, but actually involves subjugating themselves to a power that believes it is superior, they balk due to IC or OOC pride or fear (sometimes both). And no, it is nothing like the Black Caravan and in reality is only superior in certain limited fields.

Regardless, though, evil keeps giving up and I keep getting disappointed as a DM who likes to support the evil guys when your collective testicles refuse to drop.

If you doubt that, let me just put it this way: I'm the DM who gets flak for allowing even the ridiculous CE moments of hellballs impact the server, often against my better judgment, just so that somebody can say, "Ah ha ha ha, I fucked 'em up good."

Sorry, Kurchin. Sorry, Guldorand. Sorry, Silent Bay.

I support this because I always hold out the hope that will embolden the sharper, better evil that is willing to make deals with devils to gain a controlling foothold to have their utopian ideal. Or just to make a quick buck off a bunch of rubes. Or get their dicks hard off the suffering of others. Evil has many faces and I lick the eyeballs of each one.

I don't know how else to put it but PLEASE EVIL PEOPLE BE EVIL and don't let your OOC worries and bitching get in the way. PvP by the rules, if you have to PvP, but since we don't have very good death penalties, PvP is an inferior option to certain other solutions.

No, I am not suggesting "smarter evil" over "dumber evil". That leads to a bad precedent of all evil working in the shadows. It shouldn't. Some of it is right there in your face and you have no choice but fight or flight. And some of it is painfully obvious but so ingrained into the way of the world that there is no option to flee it, and trying to fight it is nigh impossible.

Please just stop handing this "quality evil RP is impossible on Amia" mentality around because it is going to destroy you. I have a difficult enough time trying to move the insurmountable bulwark of the DM/Design team in evil's favor, but when I have no good examples to point to of it working out right? You make it impossible. Force evil down our fucking throats if you have to.

I seem to have a little different experiences about evil RP on Amia. I've never been PvPed by a villain. (Maybe because Joon starts stuttering and shaking and runs away at the first sight of a Banite, but still.) I'd welcome the occasional attack. I would go along with whatever evil schemes you throw my way, if they were cool and thought through. (I retired one of my PC for months and brought him back disabled after an ambush on his life and usurping of his position. Another was fed to a gelatinous cube to prevent raising; though granted, the need to archive that PC came first and the means second.) I'm not in a position to let you take over a town or crash Cordor's economy, but you're free to make my PCs' lives miserable, get them addicted to whatever narcotics you're dealing, blackmail them, get them into gambling debts and whatever you can think of that isn't boring and stupid. But nobody's ever tried.

I'm obviously just RPing on the wrong server - case in point

Amia Island - 28/65 (0 DM)
Last reset: 1 hrs 18 mins ago
Module version: AmiaA_4.09i
Server IP: 84.243.255.52:5121
Amia Abroad - 2/65 (0 DM)
Last reset: 3 hrs 1 mins ago
Module version: AmiaB_4.09i
Server IP:84.243.255.52:5122

I've obviously made a massive mistake in rolling up a drow and going around evil-ing my butt off on the sly simply because at my peak evening time (that is a quarter to nine) there are a top of 2 people on B-Mia! I'm still of the opinion that B-mia was the B-iggest Mia-stake ever. But that ship has come and gone.

Quick shot at your 'boring and stupid' btw Iron, everyone's criteria for that are different. Playing a drugs pusher doesn't appeal to me at all, even as a person who plays primarily evil characters.

Oh, I have to disagree just a little here with you, Angel. I have seen some great PvP done by evil characters. Mostly in swamps near Tarkuul. Be it a typical bandit attack or a knight vs. foul necromancer situation.

I feel like I'm unfortunately rehashing what I've mentioned in other topics at the beginning of the decline, which also centered around the long-beaten issue of Good vs Evil and the success/prevalence/opportunity/whatever for both. I'll keep it short and sweet to prevent bringing up specific events or going too much into deja vu. Please RP loss and losing, and take the punishments for losing. That's all. I'm not asking your to be willing to lose or offering up your characters to be sacrificed. Why? Because that's cheap, dull, and boring. But if you lose and people continue to try and RP with you, try to appreciate the experience and potential impact. Don't just log off and wait for the time-clock to run out because the rules say captives can only be kept for 24 hours. Everyone wants a more real experience, but they only want it in times of their character's personal glory; unfortunately, it takes away from another character's personal glory time when they manage to win by the skin of their teeth. This goes for both sides.

Edit: I'll admit I often talk myself into a funk, but I believe it's for a different reason. Topics like this often draw me into a funk by reminding me of it.

Yossarin wrote:

"quality evil RP is impossible on Amia"

Whoever said that is wrong as Tarkuul is the living (*da bum tss*) proof that this is not true, and not to mention other, less obvious factions and characters.

Yossarin wrote:

Force evil down our fucking throats if you have to.

Challenge Accepted.

I just want to echo what Burning wrote. I think that she is correct, and that Yossarin expounded on the fact that evil actually flourishes in an environment like the one Amia has created. You don't have to be a stereotypical type of evil, or a posing paragon of virtue to try and cause real change in the surroundings. You just have to act and take a risk!

For improvement's sake (and this is not limited to evil role play alone) maybe we really do all need to grow a pair.

Edit: I think I can relate to your funk, Burning. These types of topics hae such promise, but it also comes back to certain things that have already been beaten over again and again.

I agree with you, Dead. Other people will argue "well, what does it matter? whatever evil they are doing out there doesn't affect us at all so it doesn't count".

It does count. And it does affect them. They're just too myopic to see it, or too ignorant to know it.

555444333 wrote:

I've obviously made a massive mistake in rolling up a drow and going around evil-ing my butt off on the sly simply because at my peak evening time (that is a quarter to nine) there are a top of 2 people on B-Mia!

We actually have a thriving drow playerbase (typically 6+ of the 10-20 people on B at any given time were drow)! Most seem to be on hiatus right now, though

I'm around, but my cleric is not one of the movers and shakers of the Temple (I need to get with one of the Yath still), so the best I can offer is RP. Oh, dear!

555444333 wrote:

I'm still of the opinion that B-mia was the B-iggest Mia-stake ever. But that ship has come and gone.

When I first came to the server, and for at least a year, there was typically a full A server and half-full B server, so it used to make a ton of sense. It's only now that there is issues with it being two separate servers.

Yossarin wrote:

Lots o' good stuff

I'd just like to say thanks for this. Not just for the content, but for those evil things you have approved to happen. I love seeing that strife still happens on our 'mostly good' Amia. For myself, I've known much of what you have said and I have tried, though it was briefly. Since most of my neutral/good characters are shelved/suspended/doing other things, I think I will try the resurgence of my main evil character and see what happens. I do think it is of the type you, and many others, would enjoy. And if not, ah well it will be fun!

Last edited by IronAngel on Wed, Aug 22 2012, 20:16 PM, edited 2 times in total.

Guardian wrote:

Oh, I have to disagree just a little here with you, Angel. I have seen some great PvP done by evil characters. Mostly in swamps near Tarkuul. Be it a typical bandit attack or a knight vs. foul necromancer situation.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, actually. I'm sure it happens, and I've sometimes seen it too. But no villain has ever PvPed me. This was in response to people complaining evil on Amia is just mindless PvP. Unfortunately, I would happily accept PvP into my life. It seems those who don't appreciate it see it around every corner, whereas none of it graces my dull life.

And I really want unprovoked, hostile PvP (and other RP; PvP is just one example) shoved at me, giving just the tiny out the rules demand. I won't feel nervous and excited to wander into bandit territory if they'll only attack me when I act aggressive and confrontational.

EDIT: Actually, I did get into one sort-of-PvP situation lately. Some nasty people in Magpie's party started fighting and bickering and treating her "friend" the goblin like a slave (which he apparently was). Well, Maggy didn't much appreciate (because even a goblin should be free), so when they started duelling she ran around the corner to get some spawns, and I accidentally also respawned the critters on top of which we were standing. They mauled everyone else to death, but I suppose the goblin was successfully set free! Fortunately everyone was quite chill about it, despite dying for real, and I offered to pay for their raises though it never came to that. It was partly an accident as I never anticipated the old spawns to reappear so quickly, but damn if it wasn't fun and quite signifigant to future relations. More of this, please!

Amia....what happened?

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