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Rule lawyers adhering to this is perhaps one of the biggest things which annoys me to no end. Does it bother others is basically my question? I mean, c'mon, can one not RP their helm being a scarf or a bandana or other such similar examples? I do understand some people might take it a bit far at times, but, it is RP and if it's feasible to me in a fantasy setting then I say go for it. Thoughts, opinions, etc. Btw, I argued for nil cloaks a long time ago and was told wysiwyg by certain individuals and yet...here we are.

Also, is it possible to nil/nullify, not sure what it's actually called, helms, armor, etc?

It doesn't bother me in the least, and I say it myself when it's relevant an appropriate. It's pretty much the only reasonable way to approach the game, in my opinion: the things you see on your screen are what they appear to be. If you can RP your helm as being a scarf, then you can RP your helm as being a rhinoceros. Things are what they are.

Again, Lizzie, extremes, which I did mention in my post, are different than what I am suggesting.

edit: Unless of course you're playing Munchkins and then, yes, I can see a helm being a Rhinoceros.

The problem there, though (as I see it), is that no two people will ever be in agreement on what does and doesn't constitute "extreme." The only way to keep people on the same page, playing the same game and reacting appropriately to things, is to say that things are what they appear to be. A hood is a hood. I don't think that's an especially controversial or offensive statement, nor is it a burdensome standard to ask of people.

I think it might have been tormak who explained it at like, if you want the advantage of having something on... you have to have it on

I have to agree with that statment, I dont think people should be able to null gear because they dont like the look but want all the perks.... IC I want the perks of my shield.... so I carry my damn shield.

A Null helm would result in no visible head, as to my understanding a helmet is actually a temporary head replacement, therefore if it was null, you would see nothing above the shoulders while wearing the helmet.

As I understand it, WYSIWYG is in lieu of pertinent RP. Basically, if one does not point out information about a particular character, then anyone seeing that character only has what they see to go by. Once you clarify what others might or might not see, it's no longer WYSIWYG, it's RP. And like Cory said, some things are unreasonable to do away with, if you benefit mechanically from something like a shield it's then unreasonable to RP that it's a banana.

It's not even a "rule". It's just a handy guideline that (I think) especially Nekh used to cite as a standard by which she likes to evaluate unclear cases. People just picked it up and started quoting it left and right.

I personally don't subscribe to it, because I can't be bothered to watch what's happening on the screen. I keep an eye on the chat box, so What I Read Is What I Get. You can wear a rabbit on your head, but I probably won't notice or react unless you spell it out for me.

I guess somewhere there's a line between tacky and natural. I don't care what you say about your equipment (though it may have some very important information in the description that accounts for its powers), but I don't personally see how it would be any cooler to RP an awkward metallic pot as a bandana. It looks nothing like one.

But frankly, it's the kind of thing I'd rather not see spelled out. I want the freedom to creatively interpret the game, and there's a good chance trying to hammer out a policy will result in excessive restrictions in an attempt to shut down abuse.

I don't know about Null Helms, but I would like to see Tiara's or other headresses. Null Helm would be useful for one purpose though. People who use the hat models that are assigned to your armour's 'robe' setting. But other than that, rather useless.

Bravo21 wrote:

And like Cory said, some things are unreasonable to do away with, if you benefit mechanically from something like a shield it's then unreasonable to RP that it's a banana.

I just said my shield because it was the first thing that came to mind, but say it was a cloak, I dont like the idea of a Null cloak because they are geting perks from it.

also it effects IC actions, you might not pick on someone decked out in full armor, but if Mr, every item on me in nulled because I'm RPing my Fullplate as jeans and a T-shirt, helmet as a hair clip,cloak as a scarf(so all Null NWN ingame wise) he looks like a easy target (becaus if you ar trying to mug someone you pick on the weaker guy) but he got all the perks

I don't think it's an applicable explanation. Cordor is suppose to be similar in size to Waterdeep or some other similarly sized city.

If I'm an Ogrillon, I'm an Ogrillon and not a half orc. WYSIWYG shouldn't be taken completely literally.

Caldera3 wrote:

If I'm an Ogrillon, I'm an Ogrillon and not a half orc. WYSIWYG shouldn't be taken completely literally.

Like anyone can tell the difference anyways :3

Now, a helmet can be a hood. The difference between a hood and a scarf is simply the shape. So yes, a helmet can be a scarf, end of story. If you don't want people to be able to justify it thusly, there shouldn't be hood models in the helmet crafting menu.

What you're looking for here is reasonable leeway. With a limited number of models and appearances and textures in game, things are usually not a 100% identical to their roleplaying value. But they are in the same ballpark. That's why a helmet isn't a rhinoceros. But it might be a baseball cap, which is only made of cloth too. Or it might be a cooking pot someone wears on their head because he's just wacko like that.

Well my first question is, what difference does it make?

If you want it so that you can wear a hood in the "no headware" places... one can just argue that the cloth needs to *enclose* your head in order for the magic to work (because magic is weird like that, that's why we have item slots), so it can't just be a scarf. "It's magic" is a finicky thing and a bit of a cop-out but it's the best way to handle the game's limitations.

If you really just want a scarf, the last cloak appearance is a very good one, use that. If you want a bandanna, use the head type with a bandanna. If there is none that you like, put it in your bio. Most people read it. Emote it if you fear they won't.

I'm really not sure what the issue is here.

There is no issue, Serbiris, it was merely a discussion I had with my brother about Rping things differently, so I brought it up here. I do not want a scarf or a bandana, they were examples. I guess I should also state I wasn't trying to circumvent filling items slots. Obviously, the slots should be filled with items if you wish to gain the powers from them. What I'm talking about is RPing the slots differently, not trying to gain an unfair advantage. This could also go towards RPing other things differently. I mean how bloody boring is drinking potion after potion (again, just and example). Couldn't it be a RPed as spraying perfume on oneself or rubbing ointment into the skin or whatever else one might come up with? We are here to RP, so why limit oneself to the mechanics of the game and visual limitations of the game. Again, within reason. Personally, I have faith in peoples ability to meet in the middle where common sense is concerned.

corypx wrote:

also it effects IC actions, you might not pick on someone decked out in full armor, but if Mr, every item on me in nulled because I'm RPing my Fullplate as jeans and a T-shirt, helmet as a hair clip,cloak as a scarf(so all Null NWN ingame wise) he looks like a easy target (becaus if you ar trying to mug someone you pick on the weaker guy) but he got all the perks

Not saying you do Corypx, but this seems like it is metagaming. In my mind, in a fantasy setting, magic items could be jeans and a t-shirt, a hair clip, a scarf, etc. Again, just my two cents.

soriano_ wrote:

corypx wrote:

also it effects IC actions, you might not pick on someone decked out in full armor, but if Mr, every item on me in nulled because I'm RPing my Fullplate as jeans and a T-shirt, helmet as a hair clip,cloak as a scarf(so all Null NWN ingame wise) he looks like a easy target (becaus if you ar trying to mug someone you pick on the weaker guy) but he got all the perks

Not saying you do Corypx, but this seems like it is metagaming. In my mind, in a fantasy setting, magic items could be jeans and a t-shirt, a hair clip, a scarf, etc. Again, just my two cents.

it would not be metagaming, it would be observation.
they can be magic, but again I dont belive the Null option should ever be in control of PCs without DMs doing it to the item, like appearance changing on items it should be held up to standards the DMs set. "no billy you cant turn that full plate into a Null armor and claim to be epic speedo warrior"

if you ever watched robot chicken you might seen the one with X-men police Academy and he gives them the new suits and tells them they are bullteproof and the guy shoots himself in the head... and professor X says "of course they can only protect the parts of you they cover"

base armor is not magic its phyiscal pure and simple, full plate is heavy as hell and gives +8 AC because you covered yourself in heavy metal. if you want to run around in a speedo it gives you a base AC of 0 like all clothing, if you want to mojo that speedo up to give magical AC your welcome to but its base AC is the same as all tight fitting undergarments NOTHING!.

Quote:

In my mind, in a fantasy setting, magic items could be jeans and a t-shirt, a hair clip, a scarf, et

They could but they're not. the description clearly says what the item is.

Nearly every single player on the server wears custom crafted outfits that don't represent the item descriptions very well. Fullplates are trenchcoats, metal tower shields are wooden, helmets are hoods and cloaks are scarves or are simply nonexistant while still giving you a bonus. Knocking on descriptions for guidance may be technically correct, but it's still unsustainable.

It's up to the player to make sense of what he's wearing somehow, and if it differs from what you see, he should point it out. So I don't see why he can't wear a scarf around his head, or bracelets around his ankles instead of shoes, or magical face piercings instead of rings on his fingers, even.

TormakSaber wrote:

They could but they're not. the description clearly says what the item is.

If one changes the description, the item doesn't automatically change into what one is describing. I see your point though, Tormak.

I just have a hard time understanding why, in a community that spends its time pretending they are wizards and goblins who can stop time or raise the dead, a lot of people are adverse to the idea of expanding the rp a little further than what the limitations of a computer game allow where clearly WYSIWYG isn't always true. It's fair enough though, to each their own.

For the record I want to say that whichever designer decided metal tower shields were a-okay and not the worst and most stupid thing ever needs to be shot out of a cannon into space. I don't know why that thing annoys me so much.

As for hoods being scarf wrappings and simple cosmetic stuff like that - if it looks similar enough and you can't really say one way or the other I don't see the problem in making a description of it. As long as you don't make a big deal of it when someone doesn't bother to read your bio and just calls it a hood. It's gonna happen, y'know?

Also it's known that WYSIWYG isn't always true, I don't think anyone really argued that it is or has to be. But it's considered a decent guideline. Exceptions are always noted. And this is too tricky an issue for me to really discuss when I mostly just wanted to point out the tower shield thing.

I don't understand the anger about metal towershields. I assume the weight? Please explain?

Weight is one thing, shock absorption is another. Metal is a brittle substance and so passes force much better than a squishy substance, like leather or wood. A shield made out of layers of wood and leather is going to be much better at protecting your body than one made of metal because the materials themselves will absorb a lot of the impact. It's the same reason you wear a thick gambeson under plate. Metal is good at stopping force, but that force needs to go somewhere. Without something between you and the metal, that lovely metal armor is just a club you've placed against your body.

Yeah, I should have prefaced that little rant by saying it really is just nerd rage. It was mostly a weight issue for me (since I assume the metal at least has a wooden backing) - have done enough SCA to know that even "large" sized wooden shields are quite heavy and to use them effectively you do need to move them around some. Which gets very tiring. Seasoned adventurers would have an easier time of course but they will get tired much faster than someone with a wooden shield. And why bother when it's no more protective?

Sorry, that was more of a derailment than I would have liked, my bad.

Weight was not an issue after the 14th Century as they were able to change the quality of the iron to a less carbonated one, thus it was the end of cold casting.
Metal towershields were pretty much better for those who were able to afford it.

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