AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Bini wrote:

The only builds that should ever have those awful feats are shifters.

False.

If you want to beat the living hell out of the cleric spell Spell Resistance, a full level drow, or a high level monk, then a level 30 wiz would like to have those.

The pure cleric has 42 SR and the fully leveled drow only 39. Both are going to get hit by a mords which puts both easily within the rape range of the wizard's class level modifier to spell penetration. Only the pure monk with all six of their epic feats invested into improved spell resistance (adding up to 52 SR) is going to be an issue without the feats.

Edit: Not to mention the clerics will in almost all circumstances lose their spell resistance to the spell breach side of Mords, as many of the spells that are removed prior to spell resistance are wizard/sorc ones. I can only imagine a handful of clerics with very specialized domains and buff routines could put the necessary six spells ahead of it.

I have a lvl 13 Gnome Druid that I'm dusting off and giving a try again. Reading the recent posts about druid builds, it looks like the elemental shapes have been beefed up to the point that they're useful, with spell casting ability. Nice.

I think this char was going to end up Druid 25/Fighter 4/Rogue 1, using a sling and shield. Not a power hitter, but figured it'd be good to take advantage of Zen Archery and do -some- damage.

But since infinite elemental shape is available at Druid 26, it has me wondering what to do.
-Drop the Rogue level and go for Druid 26/ Fighter 4
-Keep it as-is and just have elemental shifting 3x/day
-Drop the Fighter levels and go with Druid 28/ Rogue 1/ Ranger 1

Sun Dog wrote:

-Drop the Fighter levels and go with Druid 28/ Rogue 1/ Ranger 1

It would depend. Personally, I'd keep 25/4/1 (probably even go 24/4/2, but I don't remember off the top of my head if a druid gets anything at 25. Evasion is nice, though) because 3x/Day is enough. Your spells will last forever and you can rest to re-add the 3x/Day.

28 / 1 / 1 is nice if you want to be more caster-focused.

If you want a fighter sort of druid, you benefit the most from going Druid24/Fighter5/Tumble1. Druid16/Fighter4 pre-epic, the fifth Fighter level taken epic for EWS. For a caster druid, 28/1/1 is the stock build. Very solid.

Thanks for the replies.
I started off ages ago working toward Druid 25/ Fighter 4/ Rogue 1.

But now that I read the elemental forms are useful, I'm beginning to wonder if it's feasible to ditch the Fighter levels and go with the Druid 28/Ranger 1/Rogue 1 build, using the elemental forms for fighting?

Questions:
1) Do the elder elemental forms have decent AC and AB to make them survivable and useful for combat?
2) Is it easy to cast the elemental's spells?

3) For a previous druid caster build

Bini wrote:

....
27) Druid, Automatic Quicken Spell I
28) Ranger, Epic Spell Focus Evocation
29) Rogue
30) Druid, Automatic Quicken Spell II, Automatic Quicken Spell III

How does Auto Quicken work? I tried it in a test module and didn't get it. Does it work when shifted to an elemental? This might be handy if I could figure it out.

Seems like the DPS could be much higher as an elder elemental than a scrawny gnome with a sling, even with Wpn Spec. I'm not great at pushing all the right buttons to cast spells in combat, but if the elemental forms are good fighters, I think having the extra spell casting ability could be nice.

So here's the new build concept:

Race: Gnome

Str 12
Dex 9
Con 14
Wis 17 +9 -> 26
Int 14
Cha 8

Pre-epic: Druid 20
Feats:
1: Blind Fight (or Zen Arch?)
3: Extend Spell
6: SF: Evoc
9: Empower Spell
12: SF: Conj
15: GSF: Evoc
18 GSF: Conj

Epic: Druid 28/ Rogue 1/ Ranger 1
21: Druid 21; EMD
22: Druid 22
23: Druid 23
24: Druid 24; ESF: Evoc, Grt Wis I
25: Druid 25
26: Druid 26
27: Rogue 1; Armor Skin
28: Druid 27
29: Ranger 1; ESF: Conj
30: Druid 28; E. Fort, Grt Wis II

Skills: (192 ranks)
30 Animal Empath
20 Concen
32 Discpline
15 Heal
10 Lore
30 Spellcraft
30 Tumbe
25 UMD

1) I think the point of the elemental shapes is to give the druid a decent toolkit for PvM, so it's more than just standing around and watching your pets devour your enemies. But yes, they ought to be survivable and useful for combat, though you shouldn't even consider using them for PvP. I'm not sure about the details as I haven't played a druid after they got reworked, but I'm sure Bini can help you with the specifics.

2) Um, not entirely sure what you mean, but if you mean that when you are shifted into an elemental, and the elemental has spells that it can spam, is it easy to cast those? Yes, they are easy to cast. You just add the ability to your quickbar or whatever you call it. Even though you have to repeat this every time you shift, it's not much of a bother as it should only take a few seconds to do so.

3) Autoquicken works as described in the wiki entry.

Quote:

This feat has the same effect on casting time as haste. Casting a quickened spell while hastened does not further reduce casting time.

What do you mean by that you didn't get it? You didn't get the actual feats or you didn't get it?

As for the build if you're looking to retailor it, I'd start off with STR 6, DEX 10, CON 16, WIS 18, INT 14, CHA 8. The STR 6 may seem a bit harsh, so if you want, you can switch it into STR 8, DEX 8. By starting with WIS 18 you stow an epic feat for better use. Autoquicken is generally useful to druids because druids cannot cast Haste themselves. So, unless you keep yourself constantly packed tonnes of Haste Potions, your buffing is going to take painstakingly long. Also, as a caster druid, you need to be able to cast your spells fast. A single round of gulping down a haste potion is usually precious time in PvP as you want to get down to punishing your enemies before they get down to buffing.

In case you go with the caster thing, it would be wise to change Blindfight into Quicken and Armour skin, Epic fortitude, and Great wisdom II into Autoquicken I, II, and III. Lastly, take the ranks from Lore and put them into Concentration. If you don't want to do that, take ranks from Animal Empathy and put them into Concentration. Concentration is exceedingly important for all casters to max out so their spells don't get interrupted. Also, Spellcraft 33 is given a +2 bonus from your intelligence modifier, giving you another +1 saves bonus against spells.

Yeah... It looks like you've made the druid with very strong casting in mind and thus autoquicken is paramount.

Keep in mind that you're not going to be standing in the middle of the mob spamming your elemental spells; you're going to be off to the side someplace where it is safe whilst the mobs get beaten to death by your EMD and animal companion. While the elemental forms aren't squishy, especially with your premonition buff, even the stone elemental isn't much in the way of a tank.

Sun Dog wrote:

I'm not great at pushing all the right buttons to cast spells in combat,

If this is the case, your main concern is going to be playing the actual druid, not some shapeshifted form with only 3 spells that you press over and over again.

Thanks Opustus and Bini. Lots of great feedback about the druid build. I'll try to reconstruct the Druid 25/ Fighter 4/ Rogue 1 build and see how they compare.

The thing about Autoquicken that I didn't get is how to make it work. I guess it's automatic, no selections to be made, not options to select from the radial menu; adds a 2nd spell casting per round, just like that, don't have to activate the feat. It must have been working in my test module without my being aware of it. I like that, makes it simpler to use.

Re. Spellcraft, I never read the fine print about modified ranks counting toward saving throws vs spells. Good info.

Re. Concentration, I thought 20 base ranks would be sufficient along with at least 7 ranks from CON modifier for a total of 27 to safely use Defensive Casting. I figured my druid would have a buffed CON of at least 30, for a total Concentration of 30 (20 + 10). Do only base ranks count with Defensive Casting?

An attack of oppourtunity isn't the only attack that disrupts a spell.

You practically want to max that bitch so that when a weaponmaster is pummeling into you, you can sputter out the spell you need to, to pummel him back.

The thing with a spell cast from a quickened state is, it doesn't trigger an attack of opportunity period, so don't even worry about flicking on defensive casting. It doesn't make a spell impossible to interrupt through damage-taken, though, so you still need oodles of concentration.

Sun Dog, just remember to go Druid24/Fighter5/Tumble1 to bag that EWS at epic levels.

Bini wrote:

An attack of oppourtunity isn't the only attack that disrupts a spell.

You practically want to max that bitch...so you still need oodles of concentration

Ah, now I get it, I'll max Concentration. Thanks for the correction.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

remember to go Druid24/Fighter5/Tumble1 to bag that EWS

In looking at the modified Druid spells, Blood Frenzy gets a nice bump at Druid 25:

Quote:

Blood Frenzy
Imparts a bonus upon the caster for rounds/caster level, according to their level:
.....
• CL 20 – 24 : +4 Attack Bonus, +1 Regeneration, +1 Damage Bonus
• CL 25 – 29 : +5 Attack Bonus, +2 Regeneration, +2 Damage Bonus
.....

So It makes me think that maybe it'd be worth it to pass up EWS, since my druid will effectively be giving up 5 pts dmg/rnd in exchange for +1AB, +1 Regen and an epic feat.
I'll look at it both ways and see what seems best. Thing is, this is for a gnome druid, who won't have great strength regardless, so not sure a fighter build makes sense. I'm kind of thinking he'd be more of a caster...but I'll go thru the process just for my own learning.
Thanks for all the help so far, really appreciate it!

Look at that. And so does your pet, for the record. Get a buff, I mean. Best you go with the 25/4/1, then, though I might be inclined to replace Fighter with CoT. It's a question of +2 universal saves for +2 damage. I'd probably look for an equilibrium of marksmanship and casting. Even though you won't be able to gnaw through a decent SR, most classes lack the source of it. Drow, clerics, svirneblins, druids, and monks are only a fraction of your most common foes in PvP. Against them, resort to the sling with which you will sport a rather hefty AB, by the way, easily buffable, too.

I think you have room for one Epic spell focus, Zen Archery, EWF sling, and Autoquicken III.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

I think you have room for one Epic spell focus, Zen Archery, EWF sling, and Autoquicken III.

I got all that but it still doesn't satisfy. Please review and comment. I guess what it all comes down to is: Is it worth it to get Druid 26 for infinite elder elemental shape for PVM, or go with Druid 25 and get 4 levels of Fighter for the extra feats and 4th attack?

Druid 25/ Fighter 4/ Rogue 1

Str 9
Dex 12
Con 14
Wis 17+7 -> 24
Int 14
Cha 8

Pre-Epic: Druid 16/ Fighter 4
1 Extend Spell
3 SF:Evoc
6 Empower Spell
9 Zen Arch
12 SF: Conj
15 GSF: Evoc
18 Quicken Spell

Fighter feats: Blind Fight, Point Blank Shot, WF: sling

Epic:
21 Druid 17; EWF:sling
22 Druid 18
23 Druid 19
24 Druid 20; ESF: Evoc
25 Druid 21
26 Druid 22
27 Druid 23; Autoquicken I
28 Rogue 1
29 Druid 24; Autoquicken II
30 Druid 25; Autoquicken III

So with this build, I can't get EMD or ESF: Conj. And WIS is lower, so that reduces spells slots and DC vs saves. I don't think this build is working out the way I wanted...

If this sort of build is workable, clue me in on how to fix it.

It definitely isn't. You sacrifice a whole lot of spellpower, winding up being a boring mediocrity at both fighting and casting. It would just be wiser not to sling at all, though you may of course have that Zen for a relatively high AB. I assure you it's not useless. But yeah, if I were you, I'd just redo the whole character for all-caster potency.

Finally, here's a compromise build, that includes EWF:sling and Zen Arch at the expense of ESF: Conjuration.

Druid 28/ Rogue 1/ Ranger 1
Gnome

Str 8
Dex 10
Con 14
Wis 18+8-> 26
Int 14
Cha 8

Pre-Epic: Druid 20
1 Extend Spell
3 WF: sling
6 Zen Archery
9 Empower Spell
12 SF: Evoc
15 GSF: Evoc
18 Quicken Spell

Epic:
21 Druid 21: EMD
22 Druid 22
23 Druid 23
24 Druid 24: EWF, Grt WIS I
25 Druid 25
26 Druid 26
27 Druid 27: Autoquicken I
28 Rogue 1
29 Ranger 1: ESF: Evoc
30 Druid 28: Autoquicken II/III

This seems like a good middle ground. There are 3 Conjuration spells I can see using frequently that'll take a hit on saves without ESF (Stonehold, Bombardment, Storm of Vengeance). That has to be weighed against the +17 AB gained with Zen Arch and EWF.

I guess it all depends on how much slinging vs. spell casting and morphing I expect this gnome druid to do....

Conjuration is one of the strongest schools for a druid. They get a lot of their potent spells from that field. Something to consider when making this build!

Mr. Hackums wrote:

Conjuration is one of the strongest schools for a druid. They get a lot of their potent spells from that field. Something to consider when making this build!

I see 3 offensive Conj spells that could benefit from Spell Focus:
- Stonehold has a Will save. I'm guessing most monsters have low Will, so that's ok.
- Bombardment has a Reflex save for 1/2 damage. That'll probably be a lot less useful without ESF: Conj.
- SoV has a Reflex save for the 6d6 electrical damage but no save for the 10 rnds of acid damage, still pretty effective.

Looking at the 3 main build options I've come up with, the determining factor is: how much will my druid fight using a sling/shield vs. shifting to an elemental form and fighting that way. If the elemental forms have decent AB and AC and are fairly easy to use, I can see that being the primary mode and ditching the sling.

I've never looked at the Autoquicken feats before, that's all new to me. I'm surprised they're standard for a druid, I'm taking that on faith.

If someone is willing to pass along info about the elder elemental forms, via PM, that'd help a lot in figuring this build out. I'm gone as far as I can, stabbing in the dark at this point.

Conjuration is also Healing spells if you're undead nuking in PvE.

And things like Grease, that you suddenly can't ignore on an Epic Spell Focused druid. And the DC for SOV isn't just for the damage, its for the hugely useful stun as well. A lot of a druid's "Crowd Control" is in her conjuration.

And yeah, Tormak's mention of healing is really neat too. You can do massive amounts of damage to PvE undead with heal spells. Though, you'll still hit them for half health if they succeed on the DC. But if you land the spell and they fail the DC, they're only 1 hp away from death! Fun!

SPOT?

I just posted a rebuild request, but I'm concerned that my Spot score isn't as high as I'd like it to be. At this point it seems like a waste of skill points as I play plenty of sneaks and know how high those checks need to be. Part of the issue is I don't know what sort of equipment is available for Spot in order to crunch the numbers.

Here is the rundown of the numbers I'm working with.
Skill Points - 33
ESF: Spot - 10
SF: Spot - 3
Race - 2
TOTAL: 48

Even if I find/create gear with the max 40 bonus, that is only 88. I don't have a wisdom bonus. I could add alertness for +2.

Is there something else I'm missing?

Thanks!
~Ana

The max bonus is 50, not 40. 98 is plenty. Add a wisdom buff for 100.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

The max bonus is 50, not 40. 98 is plenty. Add a wisdom buff for 100.

Thanks Sune!

I'm going to have to beat my build-monkey friends. I've been working under their information that the max bonus was 40 for 9 months at least.

Is listen viable for detecting fools on its own? I would go spot, because I can trust how it works, but monk only has half of the detect skill for some reason...

Not so much. It works at a much slower rate than Spot, and when you've 'heard' someone, they still have 50% concealment on you. Also, you can't hear someone who isn't in your line of sight... go figure.

Less listen gear on the server, however spells like Amplify are just as useful. You also can't 'hear' people who are invisible unless they're in your attack range, you can't hear anyone whilst you're Blind unless they're in your attack range, etc, etc.

I've got an idea for a party support Bard character build. Totally based on support only with -some- magical prowess. No weapon proficiencies whatsoever with acceptable survivability in a group. The idea is, on her own, she's weak. In a party, she risks being ICly appreciated in battle as I want to go FULL bard. Here goes.

Durpari: Bonus feat - artist

Str: 7
Dex: 10
Con:10
Int:14
Wis:8
Cha:20 End: 44 with items (Great Charisma 1 through 5)

Feats:

Bonus Feat: Artist ( +2 spot, + 2 persuade, +2 perform)
Curse Song
Extend Spell
Expertise
Skill focus: Perform
Greater Spell focus Enchantment
Great Spell focus Evocation

Epic Feats:

Great Charisma 1,2,3,4,5
Lasting inspiration
Epic skill focus Perform

Skills: (maxed)

Concentration
Heal
Listen ( the idea is that amplify and clairvoyance should bring it to an -accepteable- level if need be)
Perform
Spellcraft
Tumble
Use Magic Device

In battle, the character would rely on the maxed Curse and Bard songs to assist allies. It can also assist with mage armor, ultravision and darkness, haste, improved invisibility and mass haste. It also has a little magical assistance power in the form of certain key disabling spells which are: Gust of Wind, Warcry, Dominate Person, Dominate Monster, Confusion and Dirge. The fact the Bard cannot access Epic Spell Focus is counterbalanced with her high 44 charisma, bringing it's spells ( although low to mid level only ) on par with a Wizard or Sorceress. Of course, I said -assistance- and those spells would be used in smaller parties (2-3) whereas in larger ones she'd go full support.

Finally, if -ever- I enjoy playing this character, as a possibility I was thinking of perhaps rolling RP towards perhaps learning the Greater Heroism spell, so the idea behind this is -definately- to create the Ultimate support build. ( that can't solo lvl 16 content solo, mind you, that's the whole point ).

Uh... Your pre-epic feats are kind of wonky. They should be (R) Artist, (H) Curse Song, Extend Spell, Spell Focus Enchantment, Spell Focus Evocation, Greater Spell Focus Enchantment, Greater Spell Focus Evocation, Maximize Spell, and Expertise.

You do not want to play a build with a base strength of 7 and I can promise you it will be fairly difficult to enjoy a character that can't move. You'll also want more constitution, because a support is no use to a team when they're dead.

Other than that though, it is alright... I mean it isn't the typical sort of build that folks roll in that it is deliberately pushing towards being an inferior sorcerer as opposed to what a bard normally is, but whatever floats your boat.

Maybe going 18 charisma would be the way to go, +6 ability points for loss of two. Str would then be 11, dex 10, con 12 ...

Edit: And lose focuses in Evoc for Dirge is the only good bard evocation spell, and then take toughness and dodge. A bit more surviveability there even...

I still think a DC 34 Hold Monster and DC 33 confusion are handy to have though. Alot of Epic monsters have low 20ish will saves....

Its going to be thoroughly unenjoyable character to play as soon as you realise after buffing you have like six spells to fling even with your excessively high Cha.

You'd be better of making a standard 18 Cha bard and investing heavily in Con to 21 and taking Epic damage reduction feats to increase your survivability. You'll still hit like a limp fish though. Throw in five levels of KC and it does everything your chap does and more.

So I find myself pondering something.

I have a character in progress whose end build looks like this:
Earth Genasi, 24 Barb/4 Fighter/2 Rogue
STR 21
DEX 10
CON 21
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 8

Power Attack, Cleave, Knockdown, Great Cleave, Imp Crit: Greataxe, WF: Greataxe, Blind Fight, Toughness, EDR 1, EDR 2, EWF: Greataxe, WS: Greataxe, EWS: Greataxe, EDR 3, Mighty Rage, Terrifying Rage.

Yes, I know, 21 STR/CON. Sets up for 520 HP before items (700 with full CON buffs) and a total of 14 physical DR. What I'm wondering is if I should swap EDR 2/3 for Great STR/CON. That would give +1 AB/dmg and +30 HP. However... is it worth loosing 6 DR on every attack against him? I'm thinking not. As it stands he also technically saves two mythal slots since he only needs +11 STR/CON for gear.

Thoughts?

Not really worth it to sacrifice the EDR feats for the sake of even STR and CON. I would, however, try to minmax the stats a bit, but you're a filthy RPer and have no respect for the ways of the old with your strange "ideals" or "ethics" or whatever ridiculosities. At least boost your INT to 13 so you can get rid of that hideous PA and Cleave for something useful like IKD. I usually wear the PA gloves on characters for which I don't have to take it as a feat to meet pre-requirements. But that's purely for PvM.

Well the issue with that is the build is already underway and so I can't easily change the INT score. I could use a level up, but that would screw up everything else. I could have done lower WIS or CHA, but those are the values that properly reflected the char's personality and such. IKD would have been nice, but not necessary. He is built to basically be a boulder in the end, and so why I elected all the DR stuff.

Seems to be that DR would be much more important than a measley 1 AB and a few hit points.

Thoughts on acid/sonic on weapons and acid/sonic resistance feats being taken?

Some people have mentioned around that there are damages/resistances that are 'better'. Can someone elaborate and why?

They're a crappy feat series in general and you could be doing a lot better, so I assume if you're grabbing the resistance feats it's for RP reasons (that's the only reason I could come up with for myself) in which case effectiveness isn't too big a deal. Sonic resistance is good for PvP because everybody would take sonic enchantments if they could (more on that in a tick). Acid resistance... I don't think it'd get as much use in PvM as fire/cold (of which you'll see plenty of use in say Brog) but again if you want energy resistance as a feat it's for RP reasons, otherwise you get items.
Damages - as has been elaborated, Sonic is popular because very little in PvM resists and not many stock items that PCs get do it either. Acid's probably not too bad I guess. The better damage types are the ones which a lot of things are vulnerable to (fire/cold vulnerabilities are the most common to my knowledge) or which enemies have no resistance to. In short, more damage = more better.

Anyway, I has a question. Spellsword experts in the audience! I call upon your powers.

I'm after a Sorc/monk. Possibly with SD levels or Fighter levels - the former if I can get away with it, the latter if it's needed build-wise. Obviously the major problem is AB - AFAIK unarmed AB is still 3/4 level, just with extra attacks. Will I need the higher AB for which I should take fighter levels? Monk can't be foregone entirely, but the number of monk levels isn't especially important. DC levels were considered but I figured may need fighter for the damage.

So yeah, is 21sorc/6SD/3monk not viable? Or should I go more... 21sorc/9monk (+/- fighter levels)? Even 20 sorc would be acceptable - epic spell access is nice but not terribly important build-wise, as long as I get enough AB fully-buffed to hit the broad side of a CR-appropriate barn. With dual kama.

Ability-wise I'd suppose cha of 20 at max, highest dex possible (low-mid 20s). Not sure about the pre-epic spread though I know typically one wishes to get the highest AB as possible and most of the caster levels out of the way, simultaneously (stuff like 15/5 seems standard).

It is a doozy, I am aware. But I have faith. Thoughts?

23 Sorc 1 Ranger 6 Monk is fairly standard. The difference between 4 Fighter and 4 Monk in pre-epic is one AB so its not hugely nescessary to take fighter at all. The issue your going to run into is fighting unarmed.

Stock Human:

10STR
16DEX +2 (18)
10CON
10WIS
14INT
15CHA +5 (20)

Required Feats:
WF: Unarmed/Kama
Imp Critical: Unarmed/Kama
Blindfight
Extend Spell
Maximise Spell

Optional Feats:
Disarm
Improved Disarm
Toughness

Epic Feats:
Epic Prowess
Armor Skin
Epic Fort
Greater Ruin

Ranger Bonus Feat:
Epic Weapon Focus

Sorceror Bonus Feat:
Epic Spell: Mummy Dust

AB should be in the 47 range with Aid and Bless.

The SD version would work I guess, however it is a tad to feat strapped for my taste.

Wow, lookin' good. Danke! As for weapon, kama may be necessitated by the concept, but unarmed is doable. Is the int needed if not going the disarm feats? Granted, skill points are sexy, but more con or something might be wise given the classes involved.

Based on the feats I might nix the SD levels, yeah - especially if I can get away with more monk than I originally thought possible, not to mention a surprising amount of sorc.

I'm pretty much a skillpoint whore so my stock standard reply is to keep Int at 14 due to the skillpoint aspect. With regards to the HP your looking at a rough base of 180HP. Its basically assured that you will nab +12 Con based on the fact that your a Sorc so your looking at 360HP which isn't terrible given your going to run higher than average AC.

I do have one minor correction though. Greater Ruin needs to be swapped out for Epic Mage Armor. This will give you a huge amount of freedom with your gear setting.

Also it may be worth dropping Ranger for Rogue or Bard, and losing epic prowess in the process, to get some points in UMD so that you can max out your wisdom with an Owls Insight Scroll and a Max Wisdom Buff. That'll net you +5 Wisdom AC.

The AC on this is going to be fairly high even with stock standard Gear.

Yo guy's i Made myself a Aasimar Wisdom/Charisma Cleric.
Now my question is should i go the standard 22Cleric/5fighter/2Rogue OR 28cleric/2Rogue (( i have the Death domain and since the good allig summon gets better at CL 27 i'm wondering if its worth dropping 5 fighter lvl's for))

Thanks in Advance

Personally I think you're better off with the upgraded summon, higher CL too.

It depends on what you're aiming for, if you've rolled a melee cleric go the five fighter levels. If you go caster cleric take the upgraded summon.

Thanks guys i decided to go Caster cleric

A dwarf cleric of Kelemvor, that's not to bad i hope
I'm used to playing pure AB WM, cobined with UMD he Makes a great PVP and PVE build but it's boring, i know for one this toon wont be able to kill al the bosses, but atleast it's more fine to rp him

In the end i had the powerbuild it got boring and as most others i have had tons of charekters always wanting to be the *best* build out there,
I think it's time for the build i actually like to rp around with regardless of power. *slaps himself*

Har'har Happy holiday's !!!

Why would a dwarf follow kelemvo :0

Im still confused how they think a cleric isnt a boss killer!

Kelemvor does not have the death domain. Kelemvor has the Repose Domain, kind of the same thing but differences are important.

And I'd be interested in knowing why X race follows Y Pantheon in hundreds and hundreds of cases

. Especially a Dwarf as they are proud and Xenophobic.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Im still confused how they think a cleric isnt a boss killer!

Kelemvor does not have the death domain. Kelemvor has the Repose Domain, kind of the same thing but differences are important.

And I'd be interested in knowing why X race follows Y Pantheon in hundreds and hundreds of cases

. Especially a Dwarf as they are proud and Xenophobic.

1 Atleast i think he wont be able to since it's a pure cleric and i have no real idea wat i'm doing, i'm just Maxing wisdom, don't really care
2 He has the Repose domain not Death, my mestake
3 Good question i never realy played a dwarf before, just wanted a Cleric i'm open to suggestions
4 i actually like Kelemvor for wat he stands for and since there's an actual faction about him hoping to increase my rp; dono why most take him? i'd say due to the travel Domain but tons of diety's have that

Question/suggestion about rogue/AA. I'm torn here! Is epic dodge worth it? I can't imagine it would help TOO much against a hulking fighter with KD dev crit death. Or even the most BA monsters the server has to offer. Though I could be wrong!

I see two things I can do, and if anyone has a better idea please tell me!

I see a 13 rogue/1 wiz/ 16 AA for epic dodge, 2d6 more sneak damage, and a few more skill points.

I also see the 10 rogue/1 wiz/ 19 AA for cripp strike, and a bit more enchant arrow damage and ab.

I like the idea of maybe getting 2-4 shots off on something/someone and making them slowed via encumber. Might happen so quick their initial reaction is to run but they can't. I dunno! I have a while before I need to decide, but would love input from the vets here who know how pvp goes down. B/c I don't, never had pvp yet.

Epic Dodge is always worth it. *Nodnod* Especially over simply a few points of AB.

I would go for 15 AA, 2 bard, 13 rogue with epic dodge. With crippling strike in there the build is far too reliant on sneak-attacks for a character without HIPS, IMO.

Speaking of AAs.... thoughts on this? Supposed to be a sort of high-hitting ranger type. The skills are a bit wonky, trying to emulate good ears as well as eyesight (obviously the latter is better).

Ranger(10), Bard(2), Arcane Archer(18), Elf
STR: 14
DEX: 17 (26)
CON: 10
WIS: 12
INT: 12
CHA: 12

01: Bard(1): Point Blank Shot
02: Ranger(1)
03: Ranger(2): Weapon Focus: Longbow
06: Ranger(5): Rapid Shot
08: Arcane Archer(1)
09: Arcane Archer(2): Improved Critical: Longbow
12: Arcane Archer(5): Skill Focus: Spot
15: Arcane Archer(8): Alertness
18: Ranger(7): Blind Fight
21: Arcane Archer(11): Armor Skin
24: Arcane Archer(14): Great Dexterity I, Great Dexterity II
27: Arcane Archer(17): Epic Skill Focus: Spot
28: Arcane Archer(18): Epic Prowess
29: Bard(2)
30: Ranger(10): Epic Fortitude, Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow

Discipline 33(35), Heal 19(20), Listen 12(17), Spellcraft 14(15), Spot 33(51), Tumble 30(38), UMD 24(25)

Hitpoints: 256
Skillpoints: 165
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 22/14/25
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +3, Mind Effects: +2

I think that's ... 51 AB including +12 DEX gear, but not including anything else like bow enchantment and such? Yes? So roughly 58 with a +4 bow, Bless, Aid, and Divine Might?

I'm just wondering if I'm missing anything. I plugged in the Skill Focus, Alertness, and ESF because of the need for wanting high Spot, and also because I couldn't see anything else I needed. I have never planned a ranged attacker, though, so heh.

I'm open on the 12 CHA. He's supposed to be rather good looking and a pleasant person, though even at 10 CHA elves are moreso of those things that other races, hm? The other stats suit him, but I can see 12 CON or 14 WIS as well. Don't really need more skill points.

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