AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

We could argue about specific features like "Bone Skin" or the Libris Mortis description of the pale master becoming partially mummified. However, the intent of the class is clear and has been obscured by the NWN lack of powerful necromancy: Pale Masters are not the greatest animators of the dead, they're not the most powerful necromancers on the block. Their thing is to become more like undead themselves. It's a class specific to those pervs who want to look, taste and smell like undead.

Either way, it doesn't have to be ugly. Glowing eyes are not that obvious, for example. If anyone is in a position to see your glowing eyes, they can also see your calcified/mummified/rotting flesh. A Pale Master is immediately recognizable by his face, that shouldn't be up for debate. The abilities and class description clearly indicate that much. And that's precisely why we need the variety: not everyone is rotting, so flies won't work across the board. Not everyone wants hideous light bulbs in their face, so the eyes must be optional, etc. Feel free to suggest more visual options.

The whole 'hacking out your eyes' thing isn't lore. That's a homebrew variant of what a Palemasters ritual involves.

You don't say.

All the visuals mentioned seem a bit silly to me and I think they would limit the roleplay of anyone who's playing a PM. The skin color change seems okay though and it would make life a bit harder for them. The penalties for the covered bone arm shouldn't be implemented I think, cause all you need is a small tear on your glove at the tip of a finger to make contact and all you need to disguise that tear is to simply form a fist.

Also, I'm really against giving any bonuses to melee PM's. They're a spell caster PrC and if they should get bonuses they should get them in that department. Otherwise we might as well give spells to melee classes.

I think the post is interesting in itself. I would like to suggest in general that perhaps it is worth to discuss the topic separately with the active palemasters as well?
After all, there are many players who have spent time with developing server specific lore and trying to fluff out the blanks of the abilities the class gets. Would it not be wise to have a closed discussion as well?

I for one am reluctant to openly discuss Pale mastery in detail, but I am paranoid :p

With some past characters I have seen and also knowing some that have regretted their IC choices, one discussion I had led us to believe to make it a platinum class.
This would make the user study the class and understand what it is about, is what I think

I know I could have used that.

There is no denying the description of the 10th level physical changes but the changes in mind I have seen so far I feel sort of forces the hand of the player.
Then again, I am pondering what can be done to promote RP for the class if anything VFX-y is to be applied, but right now my mind is blank

Aeqvinox wrote:

It will not affect people that cover their arms, because they never use their grafts in the first place - those builds have crappy DC.

This x100000. People who are having their grafts covered all the time are usually melee builds. The funniest part of this all is that there options to craft a scarred biceps, forearm and shoulder onto your armor so one could have a palemaster and go shirtless without people noticing by WYSIWYG system.

What was written by Tormak, and later rephrased by Valkin and myself in our of PC threads, will work just fine if homebrew. Bottom line, if anyone does not wish to go "by the book" does not wish to "do our rituals", and has his own ideas of what should be done and how the rituals work that is fine, but freedom of choice is being abused in the name of "I'm too lazy to do the RP so I'll just assume his arm popped out at level 6." Homebrew, homebrew, homebrew.

But as Iron said, here are some suggestions for VFX effects:

Level 01 Palemaster: Skin color changes to white, greenish, bone (free choice which one)
Level 03 Palemaster: Head changes to insert-random-ghastly-nasty-head-model (free choice which one)
Level 10 Palemaster: When standing still Palemaster auto-enters drunk emote.
The creepy waving representing the loss of organs, arm, other grafts, mumification..
and in a way reminds of a zombie (you never saw a zombie standing still did you?)

And as I have a slight feeling that at least 50% of people who posted in this thread never read Libris Mortis here is a list of Undead Grafts from it:

TL;DR? Basically I'm saying that PM's (mostly melee types) have enough power/mechanical advantages as is and with little downfalls. The class has and I don't doubt will still be abused by people under the munchkin category, even if they are dealt with at some point. I'm saying that IMO they could do with having one or more of their mechanical perks cut in favour of something else in their place that adds only RP flavour/experience/richness.

survivor2009 wrote:

it seems llke a great idea, palemasters did get a certain boost with necro caster lvls, but melee palemasters could use a power boost of sorts.

Oh you.

With the amount of melee PM's I've seen about over the time I've been on Amia, I'm of the thought they don't need any more power-perks.

RP flavour additions may be nice but with all the ones I've seen, the majority have had Dev, one epic spell or more and that is then paired with the hefty raise in AC, 3 extra HP on selected lvls on top of normal HP rolls which is better than it sounds, usually have a scimitar or Rapier (given that they're probably only hitting on 20's most of the time in regards to PvP, anyway, without any major AB boosts), wear full plate and use tower shield, immunity to crits/sneaks and some effects including one of Enchantments best spells (IMO), paralysis, most of them have/had access to no lack of True Strikes, not to mention I've known of some that have built up enough fort for instant-kill spells to be quite worthless and still had space for even a minor amount of regeneration - So they are hard to hit, finally get hit and lose maybe 20 HP and by time you can hit them again without playing shot games with True Strike potions the last hit was probably nullified by the regen because it's had so much time to work.

They have so many perks and one of the few things I think balances them to some level is the fact their AB is crappy by just about any build that fights and doesn't exclusively rely on spells standards, which is easily worked around anyway.

I've seen a number of them that don't ever RP being a PM, never use the grafts (pre-buff, atleast) don't use anything necromancy related. So it often appears in such cases that most use the class as a means for the perks such as the AC and the biggest one I think being crit/sneak immune with no desire to be labelled as the class in an IC sense. A number of them also come under the category of 'munchkin' as many label them as, too.

My personal opinion is that PM's could do with losing some of their mechanical power perks and replace them with more RP flavour that only enhance RP experiences instead of them being the way they currently are/could be.

Or atleast make the perks not as powerful as they currently are. The grafts weren't all that great and I don't doubt they deserved the boost they got, but all the immunities and boosts they have already are overwhelming in my eyes.

Some less AC, removal of the Crit/sneak immunity or even something other things I think would be good. Crit/sneak immunity mostly, though - they aren't actually undead and most PC's are not even considering becoming Liches either, that I know of (Though I know there are some who have requested and who have become IC so I suppose it makes it a little awkward for them if the immunities are removed)

Sure, remove just the crit/sneak and they will still be hard to hit but atleast they wouldn't have immunity to Dev when every other PC doesn't in their 'base' form aswell as near immunity to every death spell unless they roll a 1, when they can get spell mantle scrolls and other things that negate most death spells anyway, but I think lessening the AC (Most of them go for EMA anyway) gained and removing even just Crit immunity (as in leave sneak immunity, I know you can't be crit but not sneak immune, but you can be sneak but not crit immune) at the least, but I think the three would be more ideal.

Rock, paper, scissors (lizard, spock), mr. Anubis.

Just because you think melee PM's are overpowered, doesn't mean they have to be nerfed. It means that you haven't found a way to defeat them yet.

The problem is -not- with melee PM builds being viable, because the class is meant to be viable in this way.

The problem is with people that roleplay their PM's poorly.

[Rant ON]

You've outlined the potential strengths of one particular build (Epic Spells and True Strikes), i'll show you what its weaknesses are.

Let's assume it's a Wiz4/PM16/FTR10, that dumps stats heavily only to get 25 STR for Dev Crit, and 20 INT for Epic Spells. It has BAB 18, 3 attacks per round. Final AB with a +4 weapon is ~39, and AC is ~67. Saving throws are 18f 11r 17w, and given that it has EMA, he can wear +5 Scarab amulet and a +5 cloak of resistance - 28f 21r 27w. Let's assume the user of such build wants to max out STR and CON on his items and get a few points of regeneration, which means there isn't much more room for universal saves - so he grabs +10 to fort to resist death spells, and uses mind blanks against everything else. 38f 21r 27w. All in all, seems like a tough nut to crack aye.

How to kill it? With things that don't care about its shenanigans (have fort gear), and pose more threat to it than it does with its shoddy Dev Crit delivery method.

1. Clerics. Evoker will exploit the low reflex, i'm sure 16 Earthquakes and a Greater Ruin would suffice. Melee clerics can get a +20 AB that lasts longer than true strikes, and with all the divine and magical damage bonuses, crit immunity is not an issue.
2. Bards. Curse Song and Taunt will lower his AC to a manageable ~56, and with decent AC of it's own, Bard has a good chance to knock that PM out with his repertoire of gadgets.
3. Wizards. Evokers exploiting the low reflex + Bigby and Epic spells.
4. Barbarians. Taunt, high AB and damage, Terrifying Rage.

I bet there's many more kryptonites for your problem.

Additionally, any spellcaster or UMD user can use even Dispel Magic spell/wand to knock out his CL4 Mindblanks, and open up the will save to be exploited. Terrifying Rage, Shadow Daze, Fear, Hammer of Gods etc.

[Rant OFF]

Lets not stray off-topic guys. This isn't about different powers of different builds, or even about melee vs. caster PMs really. It's about the RP and the lore and what (if any) visible effects those two things would have on characters.

Sorry bout that rant, but i just had to react to an overzealous attempt to promote nerfage, where nerfage is not due.

I renew my question: is it possible to make auras permanent? (or what other vfx effects)

An aura would be a less questionable choice, lore-wise, than glowing eyes, and whether with only minor effects or even none at all, it would serve well to "help" the reluctant PM's and BG's to express their disturbing presence to others.

It would leave the individual choices of lore interpretation up to the players (whatever grafts have whatever visual effect inRP), while demonstrating a general indescribable foul appearance.

I think that permanent auras are somewhat glitchy if I recall, due to some wird interactions with the base of NWN. Even the KC auras have a few glitches because of this.

In any case, the sparkly circles from auras are ruled to be not actually visible IC, aren't they? The point of the thread is to contemplate how to make palemasters less able to conceal PM-ness IC.

I believe the intent to to give them the same thing as a BG aura. When you are in range, even as friendly or neutral, I believe the rule is that you shold feel some sort of ominous presence from something nearby. You can't pinpoint it though (unless you are the only two people around). So visually you don't see it but your character feels that something is 'off' in the area.

I could be wrong, though.

My impression is that the effect being aimed for is less of a "hmm, there's something not quite right about something nearby," and more of a "OMG, that freak has his bones showing and reeks of corpses!!!" or some such thing.

If you wanted a glitter-less solution, the palemaster's phenotype could be changed to 'old' at a certain level for the reasons Dead described for creepy waving. It might cause difficulties for many though, as not all the hak clothing models have the animations for it, so dressing them would be more restricted.

Another fine alternative. Unless there really is some technical problem with giving the PM a list of effects to choose from? I doubt we can find any one thing that suits everyone, but if you have six things to pick between you're bound to find something that fits your PC. Or you're just incredibly picky and have to suffer the consequences.

What's wrong with (drunk) waving?

It is absolutely pointing out a Palemaster in the crowd without enforcing any visuals or giving him an appearance enforcement.

Edit: @Bini just tested 'old' phenotype and it's messing up the robe models. Giving them that floating effect. :/

And while we're at it, let's make so that all paladins are praying when standing idle. Oh, and Ellistraeans, or any good drow for that matter, should burst into spontaneous, uncontrollable dance. Actually let's just make everyone performing obvious visual hints and emotes automatically, so that they can be relieved of RP'ing their character classes.

Seriously though, i wouldn't be against any of the solutions as long as i have a choice to disable these thingies, upon request for DM approval if need be.

My character is strong and stands firmly, i don't want her to wave like a zombie. She has no glowing eyes, she doesn't stink. Her arm graft is in plain sight, she wears a set of bone armor and a skull helmet, and if she would take it off, her skin -tone- is that of a normal drow. I do always indicate however, that her eyes are set deep in darker sockets, and that her skin has an unusual matte texture, like a porcelain mask.

In short, any enforced visual indicator of pale mastery that relates to specific physical conditions is violating the freedom of individual interpretation, and i want the ability to opt out of it, if i can provide proof of adequate RP of the class.

I'm fine with visual indicators that don't hint to any physical conditions though, and if we can find one that works, i'll be "wearing" it proudly.

PS. Also custom Pale Master bonus feats please ^^

I'm of the opinion there should be visual indications and they should be forced. Whilst the drunk emote seems a little silly simply for how it looks in game, I'm all for the skin tone changes, glowing eyes and so on. Obviously a Paladin does not stand around praying all day, but a palemaster has devoted themselves to their art and the side effects (more like advantages!) would have obvious physical manifestations.

So, urr, when does this happen to RDD too? Or is it just palemasters?

I think people might be overdoing it a bit: It should still be possible to cover up to a degree, but it should require effort and roleplay, and it should be detrimental to the graft powers if they're not bare and 'weildable'.

I mean, I can still throw a robe over my bone arm and look ok. The issue is if someone grabs my arm, or more than a stiff breeze shows off how freakishly skinny it is.

Quote:

My character is strong and stands firmly, i don't want her to wave like a zombie. She has no glowing eyes, she doesn't stink. Her arm graft is in plain sight, she wears a set of bone armor and a skull helmet, and if she would take it off, her skin -tone- is that of a normal drow. I do always indicate however, that her eyes are set deep in darker sockets, and that her skin has an unusual matte texture, like a porcelain mask.

Yus, I think this covers it nicely. I would be rather upset if Reinard were to suddenly smell grotesque and waddle like a zombie and be surrounded by flies. He is a cultured man with obsessive, socially disgusting tastes. He does not 'stink', or stagger. He wears an eyepatch over his Darkvision eye and keeps a robe over his arm, with the hand bare for somatics and graft usage.

"Normalcy" shouldn't be sacrificed by going too far in the other direction because it's frustrating at how easy it is to tialor your arm so no one knows about the boney stuff.

(PS melee PM is garbage that relies on enemies rolling 1's on dev crit)

I find myself coming around to agree with Tormak. I don't think forced "flags" is the way to go. I'm still partial to my own idea of -adding- optional incentives that come with flags, though.

Yep. Please don't force behaviour or roleplay details onto players who don't want it. Stick to the mechanics.

I don't grasp what the problem is with PMs who cover up their arm. Doesn't that make it just as obvious? I seem to play one of the very few pure spellcasting PMs who keeps his arm covered. And yes, it's obvious. One arm has a shirt sleeve and bare hand, the bone arm has what's supposed to look like tightly wrapped black leather. A special item that's cushioned to make his arm appear more normal. So people won't freak out. Because despite all that "Why would you even want to hide it" bla bla, there is such a thing as desire for social interaction even for creeps. He isn't shy about the fact that he's a necromancer. It would suck if I had to bow to some arbitrary shoehorn telling me he's got to be a funny waver, have a fly swarm, look like a zombie or be a glow-in-the-dark blow-up doll. Why don't you do that for -your- character and leave mine alone.

Also, won't you know exactly what he is the second he summons, or proves immune to your sneak, or fails to be stunned, or, y'know, maybe mentioning it himself without needing any visual indicators?

I find this discussion to have advanced incredibly fast from "Do we want to do this" to "How do we want to do this" without stopping for a moment and thinking about whether it's actually a good idea.

I was just tossing my ideas into the pot.

My official point still stands that we should homebrew lore, if we ain't gonna make 'em platinum.

xordae wrote:

I find this discussion to have advanced incredibly fast from "Do we want to do this" to "How do we want to do this" without stopping for a moment and thinking about whether it's actually a good idea.

Probably because everyone always has at least some idea or opinion, and they always believe it a good one, unless convinced otherwise.

That being said, here's mine:

Give PMs one free bonus feat at a certain level. This bonus feat can be any one of the above stated effects (glowy eyes, bone-tone skin, swarm of bugs) and is chosen by the player. You cannot have more than one without dropping extra feats into it (So, you get maybe bone-tone for your freebie, which might give resistance or something, then if you get PM bonus feats, you can pick, say, bugswarm. These bonus feats can either be set at other PM levels. (EG, give them one of the ones from this list and this list alone at levels 4 and 8, or have just one at a normal level, then use the PMs epic bonus feats. Or both. I don't know, I'm not exactly good at balance.) You could also add in a "Null" option, so if desired, your PM can choose not to take any, though at the cost of not getting any of the neat advantages the other feats offer. )

This means you could make a completely "Null" PM, which essentially exactly the same as the PM's we have right now, or you could choose to gain a nice bonus or two at the cost of becoming more noticeable.

I'll leave the covered-arm-stops-use thing up to others. While I favor it, there are some issues with certain arms, which may make it hard to implement.

Honestly, there's probably a huge, gaping issue with the above, and that is balance. Mainly the fact that I have no idea about anything balance-wise.

TormakSaber wrote:

So, urr, when does this happen to RDD too? Or is it just palemasters?

Oh god I would love that. Issue there is I'm fairly sure we don't want to give our scaly friends any more benefits, so a different approach would be required. That, and DDs of different levels will have different appearances. But that said, I'd love this. My Brass is far more obsessed with covering herself up than my PM, though that's leaving as she gets less shy and more outgoing. Having other players able to spot the scales (automatically triggered spot check, once per turn if within a certain distance? I dunno, work it out later) would make things delightfully embarrassing for her. However, I'm getting horribly off topic here. We should probably ɥʇıʍ punoɹɐ ʍǝɹɔs fix one class at a time.

Dead wrote:

I was just tossing my ideas into the pot.

My official point still stands that we should homebrew lore, if we ain't gonna make 'em platinum.

Agreed. Hell, some lore could even be made in game (some item of research into grafts comes to fruition?).

Garnith wrote:

Dead wrote:

I was just tossing my ideas into the pot.

My official point still stands that we should homebrew lore, if we ain't gonna make 'em platinum.

Agreed. Hell, some lore could even be made in game (some item of research into grafts comes to fruition?).

You prolly didn't read the entire thread. It was mentioned in many posts that we already have a wast lore about Palemasters IG. For a long, long time. I am talking years.

_________________ *Inactive as of November 28, 2013*

Aeqvinox wrote:

And while we're at it, let's make so that all paladins are praying when standing idle. Oh, and Ellistraeans, or any good drow for that matter, should burst into spontaneous, uncontrollable dance. Actually let's just make everyone performing obvious visual hints and emotes automatically, so that they can be relieved of RP'ing their character classes./sarcasm

TormakSaber wrote:

I think people might be overdoing it a bit: It should still be possible to cover up to a degree, but it should require effort and roleplay, and it should be detrimental to the graft powers if they're not bare and 'wieldable'.

These pretty much sum up my thoughts on this subject. I'm done reading this topic.

I fully support the idea of adding to the PM class a couple extra options, however not having had an active PM in a long time, it's not something I'll probably use.

Not a PM player or even active player in Amia, but for whatever it is worth, I can assure you that an unbathed person smells NOTHING like a dead one. Not talking about what I think or what I read, but about what I know from experience.

This thread seems to make a lot of presumptions on the players and characters of palemasters that deign to cover up their arm. It assumes negatively the how when where and why to an almost vindictive degree. I mean there is plenty of rp here I find absurd but I try not to assume. That such broad statements are made by such powerful people and not really given any reasonable benefit of the doubt is entirely worrisome. Especially when on the opposire spectrums you have players beong called elitists because they want things like canon and properly rped elves and drow. Ultimately its up to a player to decide how to rp his palemaster and for the dms to consider such rp "out of bounds" on a case by case basis. Otherwise this just comes off to me as a legitimization of -one- way to play a class.

gravitas wrote:

Otherwise this just comes off to me as a legitimization of -one- way to play a class.

YES. I find a lot of the homebrewed Palemaster rituals are interesting, and I certainly understand why a lot of people choose to use them in their roleplay, but I feel that making them the official lore for all Palemasters on the server takes a lot away from the class. I made a Palemaster a while ago, with the intent of playing a necromancer, a scientist, a skilled wielder of negative energy, who'd graft a lovingly prepared bone arm to her body as a conduit to better channel that cosmic force. What I did not have in mind was playing the magical version of Buffalo Bill.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see someone roleplay their Palemaster as magical Buffalo Bill, but it shouldn't be required of every Palemaster on the server when it's so far removed from every single description of the class that isn't in the forum library.

If I ever make a PM, it's going to be 10 wiz/20 pm so I am definitely want multiple options. I will do them all. I'll be a mini-Dead.

To the lore peeps: can a PM's arm be broken? Does it still function if it is? And I assume it would be "healed" via application of negative energy or a revisit to a portion of the original rite?

I've heard of people cutting them off before, which would effectively render it unusable until they RPed patching it up. I would assume such would be fairly easy for an experienced PM. As for just breaking it? It would depend upon the manner, IMO. If there's enough of the arm left for them to hit someone with it (physically broken), I'd say it'd still work. If it was the target of a focused dispell? Probably temporarily rendered useless, a la magic items.

Maybe they should need to collect screws of damnation to properly attach their arm again.

My Positive Input:
I like offering alternatives to the bone arm, because I've always wondered why every pale master would choose the same modification, so I think that's a very clever way to introduce some really creative alternatives. The pale glowing eyes, sharp teeth, interesting smell, all seem like really fun options for players that would enhance rp.

Side note, I'd think you could break a bone arm. It's bone, not titanium. But then again, I avoid reading FR Lore, so I've no idea.

Read down for rant, otherwise stop here.

My Rant:

Sometimes server changes feel like obsessive plastic surgery. Got the nose fixed, now time for the chin. Ok, now the lips. Until at the end, rather than that smooth, elegant server you wanted, you just end up looking like Joan Rivers.

It might be time to just stop and enjoy the rp. Enjoy the creative people here who've managed to cling to a ten year old game for the sheer love of telling a story with other people and who come here to spend time with friends.

There are myriad ways that people choose to play their pale master, their fey, their elf, their drow, their sparkly skinned vampire, and just as many ways for someone who doesn't agree with them to find fault in it. I sometimes feel like I'm at a Republican convention with a bunch of grumpy old men trying to find more ways to control those damned liberals.

Sorry to be such a free love hippie - no, actually, I'm not. I love the environment, and I love my personal freedoms - but as long as it's not actually hurting someone else, I tend not to give a shit. You want to clear cut a rainforest, I'll have issue with you. You want to try and grow blueberries in alkaline soil - I'll think you're an idiot, but I won't tell you you can't.

So really. Is this an issue that's actually hurting the server, or is it something people have just decided bugs them a bit?

Maybe a palemaster is a closet palemaster with some perverse obsession with undeath. Maybe his neighbor's a taxidermist and can mask the smell of death. Maybe a magic fairy came down and hit the bone arm with its wand so it smells like tulips.

We could argue all day about how you could or could not hide smells/appearances/ etc... but keep in mind we're in a game with magic - a hidden bone arm just doesn't seem like something outside of the realm of plausibility, and I'm not sure this is something that merits a "fix".

Psst, the bone arm isn't changing. We're talking about additional things someone can opt to do.

The bone arm wont' be changing, no. Whatever else may change is up in the air. We're not even sure what we're going to do, aside from taking all of your input seriously (though some more seriously than others).

Yossarin wrote:

To the lore peeps: can a PM's arm be broken? Does it still function if it is? And I assume it would be "healed" via application of negative energy or a revisit to a portion of the original rite?

I don't see why it couldn't be brokne. I imagine it's harder too because of 'bone skin' and rritualy business, but I'd assume it could still be broken.

I would think the graft would cease to function, but I'm not sure.

It is an unusual question. My intuition, more as a player of a PM than a DM, is that it wouldn't work. As in, were I a player, that's how I would feel, with the way I think about magic.

It's an interesting question. I think it'd be harder to break, for the reasons Tormak said. I think the manner of breaking the arm would determine if it would stop working. Just as a ritual was performed to invest the Palemaster with the ability via the arm removal and graft, so would the bone arm have to be purposefully broken to cease it from working.

But I'm all about symbolism.

Umm...Instead of making it glaringly obvious with a visual effect that screams "IM EVIL" and you are going down the homebrew route, what about making Level 9-10+ Pale Masters immune or even healed by negative energy?

Negative energy isn't a very good attacking type anyway (Negative energy protection, Shadow Shield and so on) but when other PC's notice that the mage isn't phased at all by the evil magic, it gives them some explaining to do.

It could be explained in a variety of ways, from the semi-lore supported "I am barely distinguishable from the undead" right up to "I am one step away from becoming a lich".

Eitherway, it would flag them out as not being normal, but not so obviously.

A palemaster is quite a few steps away from becoming a lich. They are, in fact, exactly as many steps away as any other prospective candidate. That aside, the idea behind this thread wasn't to nerf palemasters, it was to maybe introduce new options for them, but also a cost - namely making it more difficult for them, as many feel it should, to blend in to a normal crowd.

slkNihilus wrote:

A palemaster is quite a few steps away from becoming a lich. They are, in fact, exactly as many steps away as any other prospective candidate. That aside, the idea behind this thread wasn't to nerf palemasters, it was to maybe introduce new options for them, but also a cost - namely making it more difficult for them, as many feel it should, to blend in to a normal crowd.

Oh, I know

I have read behind a few pages to catch up (I quite like Necromancy RP) and It just reminded me how it worked (and still works) for Warlocks (custom sub-class for bards) on Arelith.

Because the DM's there felt a Warlock should be pointed out with a visual effect, they would gain glowing eyes and in all honesty from what I saw of Warlock players it was bordering on impossible to play one well because of that. Soon as they took their Warlock levels they were pretty much always on the receiving end of a PvP fest and at risk of being publicly lynched by everything that wasn't an Infernalist or Abyssal.

From seeing that I would just be concerned it would be the same deal for Pale Masters here, it would basically be a nice big neon sign saying "I'm a freak, please kill me" just like it was for the Arelith Warlocks. There should be something unsettling and not quite right about them I totally agree, but not a big neon sign

IronAngel wrote:

One kind of tongue-in-cheek, but not totally unreasonable idea I have is to make swarms of flies or dust clouds swirl around the rotting and mummified Pale Masters, respectively. There are effects available to show that.

Sunkin Sheep wrote:

I think the scent of a pale-master should be apparent. A creature can smell rotting flesh, a dead body has a specific rancid scent to it. You who graft this to yourself graft those aromas, I do not think it likely for a palemaster to apply 100% bleach and eau de ne mort pas to his bones before his day at the office.

Unfortunately, I think the 'flies' VFX would be too 'over the top', much as I like the idea. As well, the scent might simply be 'musty', and I'm sure any number of regular mages smell that way. I'm not sure these effects couldn't be hidden either, depending on how much effort went into it.

Just to toss out an idea, perhaps 'strange' classes/races like genasi, tiefling, dragon disciple and palemaster might be required to have some standard lines attached to the bottom of their in-game bio, and these descriptive lines become more numerous and more specific as the PC advances in level. So all of the above start with 'This being appears somewhat unusual' and progress from there. This would allow some obscuring of the PC's true nature via appropriate equipment but not from those who make the effort to look closer (ie. at the bio). The penalty for wiping said lines from the bio would be deletion of the character, but means that DMs need to police this (of course, other players can screenshot and report bios with missing info).

To overcome the latter cheat, perhaps another option would be an item similar to the Lore check script we've added to certain in-game objects. I don't know if this can be done, but looking at a PC's bio might just auto-populate the aforementioned lines (but only to the viewer) depending on the level/status of the perceived and the skill of the perceiver. This would obviously require a script to be run every time someone looks at another PC's bio and may not be worth it from a lag or effort point of view.

A PM with helm, full-length robes and gloves might pass as just another Amian to the casual observer, but look closely and you might notice something. This is not incompatible with the idea of multiple grafts.

Xaviera - Make a script that triggers once player X is closer to player Y (The palemaster). Add a delay timer of Z minutes, hours, or whatever. The script triggers an emote from player Y (The palemaster)

I am sure we can all imagine what kind of text could be inside such an emote.

Many characters hide the fact that they are evil. Many necromancers and characters of evil-aligned deities find themselves worming their way into Goodly-aligned factions and causing all sorts of chaos.

I don't see the issue in Palemasters keeping their arm covered to hide their true colors. I agree with the OP I think most Palemasters would not want to hide this fact and what they have worked for. But there may be legitimate IC reasons why a Palemaster might want to hide the arm and I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to if a Necromancer / Blackguard can hide his identity easily enough.

If the character was to be seen using it even just once it would blow his/her cover and become public knowledge very quickly through word of mouth, gossip and noticeboards.

emzor wrote:

if a Necromancer / Blackguard can hide his identity easily enough.

Mind that the BG should not be able to. AoD is always on, and though it is not visible, everyone (not just enemies) should be able to feel the eerie presence. It is up to the player affected by it to decide whether their toon is familiar with AoD or not. It may be just a feeling that something is somewhere wrong, it may be cover blower in form of "Someone here is a Blackguard." But if there is a crowd of people standing in the city square and one of them is a blackguard, there is no exact way of pin pointing who is emanating it, even if the toon is perfectly familiar with the said creepiness.

If only enemies take the -2 penalty then it's safe to say only enemies feel any other effects as well.

(imo)

I don't know about that. There's quite a bit of difference between "This guy is kinda creepy." and "This creepy guy is going to eat my face."

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