AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Wouldn't things like Implosion count?

Implosion causes Death, but is not a death effect because it's simply a crushing gravitic vortex as I reckon it.

Death effects literally are the use of negative energy to snuff one's life force out , but this is my perspective.

Grymia wrote:

Implosion causes Death, but is not a death effect because it's simply a crushing gravitic vortex as I reckon it.

Death effects literally are the use of negative energy to snuff one's life force out , but this is my perspective.

Yet it's treated mechanically as being 'versus death' if I recall.

Implosion is not death.
Death is a spell subtype that you will see next to 'Descriptor' when you click the info box.
Shadow Shield and Death Ward make the target immune to spells with the death descriptor.

=Implosion= (not death)
Spell level: cleric 9
Innate level: 9
School: evocation
Components: verbal, somatic
Range: short (8 meters)
Area of effect: medium (3.33 meter radius)
Duration: instant
Save: fortitude negates
Spell resistance: yes

=Energy Drain= (not death)
Spell level: cleric 9; sorcerer/wizard 9
Innate level: 9
School: necromancy
Descriptor: negative
Components: verbal, somatic
Range: short (8 meters)
Area of effect: single
Duration: permanent
Save: fortitude negates
Spell resistance: yes

=Wail of the Banshee= (death)
Spell level: sorcerer/wizard 9
Innate level: 9
School: necromancy
Descriptor: death
Components: verbal
Range: short (8 meters)
Area of effect: colossal (10 meter radius), 1 creature / level
Duration: instant
Save: fortitude negates
Spell resistance: yes
Additional counterspells: silence

To answer Kylex's question, there are more than those three.

I know a quick way to test death spells! Death Ward.

And yeah DW doesn't save vs Implosion, otherwise the spell would be nearly worthless lol

Because people often forget and because the time I kept true to it people looked at me like a crazy person, I'll jam it in now: Raise Dead will not bring someone back to life killed by a death effect spell; only a proper Resurrection or True Resurrection can do that.

It does in NWN!

As a matter of correctness people shouldn't be glazing over the limitations of the spell simply because they can.

Bini wrote:

As a matter of correctness people shouldn't be glazing over the limitations of the spell simply because they can.

Yeah, they should. NWN spells should do what they do. People shouldn't have to have a copy of the Player's Handbook to play NWN. If raise dead works, then it works.

Then the same could be said about beheaded or cremated characters. Mechanically, Raise Dead will work despite the state of the body, though from a reasonable perspective the state of the body is completely beyond the spell to revive, just as it would be after a death effect spell.

It's the fault of mechanics -not- the players. I didn't know that until you mentioned it.

It could probably be scripted to do that, but you would need to put the effort into suggesting it in IA instead of talking about it in GD. Hell the PvP system could probably be modified to make it so you can mark someone as 'beheaded' or something.

I didn't fault the players, I sought to educate and spread the word so that in the future, this will be one less little detail that people either are unaware of, or forgot.

Teeeechnically anyone without at least 5 in UMD (to take a 20) can even use the damn thing anyway. I prefer to view them as a method by which leveling doesn't become the hunt for clerics nearby every 20 minutes. Glossed over, primarily, as your character fixing someone up who was very near death. In PVP or DM events/scenes I'd totally go looking for a cleric. Or despair. Maybe both!

Naiv: the Phane makes it so that people killed by it can't be raised by anything short of resurrection, if I recall. I wonder how...

Temporal Stasis, I believe. The Phane is a nasty critter that screws with Time lmao.

No I mean I wonder how they programmed it.

Same thing, with Time. DM's are masters of it.

Or... something.. uh... FUSRODAH

If the DMs started wearing bow ties, it'd be confirmed. Our DMs are Time Lords.

Naivatkal wrote:

FUSRODAH

That's Unrelenting Force, noob!

Dr. Who has joined as a DM.

Exactly. I just unrelentingly forced knowledge in his brain. Until it exploded.

I'm sure Glim wishes he was a time lord.

Is it mechanically possible to DC request a third domain for a cleric character?

Nope.

Can an observer join in a PvP battle just because they decide to side with one character? I've seen this before and I don't know if it's legal.

AFAIK the rules are mostly concerned with the initiation of PvP. Once it starts, as long as everyone is hostiled you're free to join in as you please - although one assumes you don't metagame and that you do actually have an IC reason for getting involved (even if it's just "I like fighting" I guess).

Not to mention the rules are concerned with protecting a player's preference should they not want to be involved in mechanical PvP specifically, rather than making for a fair fight. If there are two characters already locked in hostile combat, their players clearly have no qualms regarding mechanical PvP anyways.

So if my character comes across two other characters fighting it out, I can hostile one of them and go at it because my character just likes to fight?

You should also party with the person you are 'siding' with, unless of course they refuse, in which case they should also hostile you, or vice versa. As well, your character's motivations should precipitate your actions as a player, not justify them after the fact.

Personally I wouldn't jump in to PvP I have came across dependant on circumstances. I'm mostly going by what my main character would do, if I don't know either fighting IC, then most times I will either just observe from a safe distance or move along.

If I do know one of them, even then depending how well they are known, I'm not likely to jump in unless I get a clear indication they want me to help IC, assuming the opposition is not someone who would cause conflict in such ways as also being a known friendly.

Long, long time ago, I've been a part of PvP where I was battling a couple of Humans, and a very unlikely 'friend' turns up and immediately attacks me. I didn't want the PvP in the first place, but I went with it and when the other turned up, never so much as made any indications of hostility or wanting to attack before actually attacking, just ran straight in after the briefest moment of seeing a fight. I wasn't particularly happy about that and if they had actually even just asked the ones they were helping, (which seemingly was for no apparent reason) if they needed help, or even just emoting getting ready to join in, it wouldn't have bothered me.

So, I think if you're going to jump in PvP, it would be ideal if you took the short time before attacking to RP becoming hostile toward one and having intent to harm or asking clearly IC the one you intend to help, if they require help. Even if the other doesn't see your IC emotes/messages, atleast you took the time to RP up to the assault than just running in becuase you think, 'Oh fun, fun, let's kill'.

I'd imagine the whole 'Reasonable out' is not applicable in the instance of already initiated PvP, but I don't think you should run in just because the character would feel like with no RP right before, it feels very OOC driven to me to run in guns blazing without any form of RP before hand.

The unlikely friend showing up is a problem and will always be a problem. I don't honestly see a way of fixing it. It's the honor system and there will always be crazy sillyums.

Anubis wrote:

So, I think if you're going to jump in PvP, it would be ideal if you took the short time before attacking to RP becoming hostile toward one and having intent to harm or asking clearly IC the one you intend to help, if they require help.

This is the problem of having transitioned from verbal RP to mechanical combat. Mechanical combat doesn't wait for emotes, it doesn't wait for descriptiveness. At this point it's a game of numbers and dice rolling while the verbal RP takes second seat. Time in combat Is already compressed considerably, having to give a verbal RP indication would take considerably more "combat time" then it should.

I guess it's the equivalent of rounding the corner and seeing someone getting their face punched in. Personally I'm going to have a brief "WTF" moment. Given past history, I'm probably going to go from "shocked" to "jumping in" to break it up in less time then it would take to set everyone involved hostile.

While I agree with Anubis's statement about what would be most ideal, I would personally not blame anyone if they don't emote anything to signify they would be joining in simply because NWN battles are decided on second-basis. Like erroch stated, if you took the time to emote something, your friend could be killed, for instance, and the IC consequence of that could potentially be dire.

There's also a situation of collateral damage as well.

As an illustrative example, I was passing by from Kampo's to the Shrine one time with complete intent to avoid getting involved in the seemingly tense situation going on at Benwick's. Well, as I was walking, hellball was fired and I was killed anyway even though I was trying to leave the situation >.>;;; I was in stealth so suddenly, people were confused by a random corpse that appeared. I found the situation funny (as did everyone that was there), but I'm sure some people might have found that situation upsetting, especially depending on how the situation was handled after the death (e.g., being left dead and forced to respawn, etc.). Especially with the new /s f_hostile (Granted, "new" being like a year old) command, this can easily happen even with AoE that only affects hostiles.

I think the jumping in is only a real concern when metagaming is involved. It's highly suspicious when you're in a completely remote area and 10 additional people show up to come kill you (If PnP forms of divinations were used, for example, even if your character wouldn't know crusaders are on their way, you on the OOC level would be aware of such possibilities by consenting to the use of PnP spells). Whereas if you're fighting in high traffic area and people show up, well, that's to be expected. If you are a player that feels that other people getting involved is offensive/unfair/etc., I think it falls on you to avoid the situation in which other people are likely going to jump in.

I'm not expecting anything, mind. But Quick hostile and *Draws blade and runs in* Is better than just running in suddenly.

In the instance I speak of I was at the major disadvantage and all odds were against my character, not for any moment that the 'friend' turned up did it seem the table would turn in my favour, if I was getting the better of the opposition, it would have been different and the supposed friend jumping in may have been more justified.

Quote:

I guess it's the equivalent of rounding the corner and seeing someone getting their face punched in. Personally I'm going to have a brief "WTF" moment. Given past history, I'm probably going to go from "shocked" to "jumping in" to break it up in less time then it would take to set everyone involved hostile.

I don't really count all RL things in comparison to a game, especially a fantasy game based around magic and monsters as valid, people strive for realism, but you do have to draw a line at how real you want the game to be, before we are playing the SIMS and able to kill each other, too. If I wanted to play more realistically on a game I wouldn't be playing a D&D fantasy based one.

If you walk around a corner to see what you describe, in real life, you jump in to stop them because you're probably trying to do the right thing. On Amia where PvP is concerned, it's a touchy subject where 'doing the right thing' isn't the same as RL, and keeping out of it when you weren't apart of it in the first place (may) avoid what I had presented above. Even just *Readies attack* right before charging isn't a great deal of effort, I'm not hoping for a big paragraph on how the others may prepare or anything, but I see it as being courteous if people do that.

I mostly just don't see coming across two oponents fighting that you have never before met and jumping to the aid of one or the other for no reason beyond wanting to hit something/someone as being justifiable (Not including things like one being something opposed to your character, undead, demon/devil, etc). If someone is fighting, and you are well known to be a friend of them I'd say it's not so bad but a short emote or "I'm jumping in!" would be appreciated by myself at the leasr, but random attacks with people you've had no prior meeting/experience/interaction with I don't like the idea of.

I know what I would do in that situation because I'm a respectful and honorable player when it comes to that. I suppose I just wanted some official answer on this. Opinions are great, but everyone gots 'em.

No, no, and no.

SDs, folks in invisibility, etc. Right?

There needs to be another solution than having to report hey I'm jumping in. Tells don't work, still a time thing.

My suggestion would be you cannot jump in of you stunple upon it only folks initially there can. This, to me, solves a large portion of the issues of not knowing when its plays pretty cut and dry. I realize its not as fun and can be immersion breaking but this saves the bullshit of folks showing up randomly and saving folks. Or that sort of thing.

GreatPigeon wrote:

No, no, and no.

SDs, folks in invisibility, etc. Right?

There needs to be another solution than having to report hey I'm jumping in. Tells don't work, still a time thing.

My suggestion would be you cannot jump in of you stunple upon it only folks initially there can. This, to me, solves a large portion of the issues of not knowing when its plays pretty cut and dry. I realize its not as fun and can be immersion breaking but this saves the bullshit of folks showing up randomly and saving folks. Or that sort of thing.

Ahh no.

There may be cases where during a patrol, a PC comes across an incident already in progress , and they would be reacting to it..

This isn't helping create a better solution I know but.. such possibilities HAVE to be taken into account.

Maybe it's not the best idea, but reporting you are jumping in, in an IC fashion is better than randomly jumping in with no reason what so ever.

Not only does it feel OOC to me if someone randomly attacks with not an ounce of RP, but it suspiciously stinks of meta-gaming, even if they weren't.

Even if an SD was about to attack and they un-hid to emote charging in, the target is likely to be busy with their current opponent and the SD can re-hide not too long after if they feel it is required, same with invis, it's not exactly hard to get invis potions and even SD's with access to a certain shop have a means of Dust of Disappearance and even some other shop(s).

If meta-gaming the other who is hidden/invis'd is a problem when they've not actually saw them IC after making indication they are to attack (Emotes or verbally), they've probably enough time to make the first move before the meta-gamer, any way.

I'm not even saying what I've put has to be done, just a little courtesy can go a long way paired with an actual IC part of attacking other than to appease your (the general sense) PvP hunger and happened to stumble across two random people fighting. People arguing that they should be able to jump in to PvP at any of those times give me a sort of impression that they are just mad for PvP, when RP should be the fore-most important aspect, it's not like hunting in a dungeon where you have a lot less time to even make simple reactions, depending on who you are as, party and spawns.

It's not reasonable for an SD to report their involvement, sorry. Especially with the HiPS timer. And certain combatants are perfectly capable of reacting within 6 seconds. Shock value is tactically important and also psychologically important to get the proper emotional impact of a shadow warrior striking from ambush.

Frankly the whole mentality that roleplay isn't taking place unless someone is enter-wordswordwords*emote*-entering is wrong. :roll:

I'm not expecting them to, nor will I ever. I'm not even going to suggest it change, be looked at, considered or anything.

Eyeroll to your hearts content, Bini, but not RP'ing, is simply not RP'ing and I just don't see the logic of what you're saying.

Last edited by Bini on Fri, Mar 29 2013, 5:32 AM, edited 1 time in total.

This is a graphical, three dimensional game with capabilities beyond that of a text based browser RPG and as such, it affords us far more luxuries to enhance play and communicate what our character is doing than strings of text. There are subtle ways of taking advantage of this with the nod emote, there are blatant ways of taking advantage of this such as combat animations, then there are ways of taking advantage of this that we do without even noticing like moving around the module's areas. This is to say that while text makes up the vast majority of intricate play and it has to communicate most of of what our imaginations come up with, it isn't the only tool at your disposal to roleplay with and dismissing anything less as OOC actions is short-sighted.

Bini wrote:

This is a graphical, three dimensional game with capabilities beyond that of a text based browser RPG and as sure, it affords us far more luxuries to enhance play and communicate what our character is doing than strings of text. There are subtle ways of taking advantage of this with the nod emote, there are blatant ways of taking advantage of this such as combat animations, then there are ways of taking advantage of this that we do without even noticing like moving around the module's areas. This is to say that while text makes up the vast majority of intricate play and it has to communicate most of of what our imaginations come up with, it isn't the only tool at your disposal to roleplay with and dismissing anything less as OOC actions is short-sighted.

<3 Canadian Boyeee

lol, the mind blowing gif is so funny

Well then, we can just agree to disagree, there's no point in arguing, just for the sake of it and just go our separate ways on the matter.

What is the official rule regarding the use of Dominate Person/Monster or Charm Person/Monster on PCs?

The affected party is only beholden to the default mechanical effect unless they specifically consent or opt to play out the PnP compulsion or charm.

That said, it usually depends on context whether a player will or will not do this. If locked in an intense mage-duel, you can anticipate they're probably just going to sip a potion of mind blank after being dazed by a dominate monster or dominate person spell; conversely there's a fair chance that if you happen to be using it as a means of interrogation in a quiet dungeon, a player will play along and consent.

1) How does the Knight Commander Entreatment work on PCs, exactly? Will they be flat-footed for a while or can they instantly return to combat if they just click on you? Is it enough to get in a flurry of (sneak) attacks? Can it be forced to last for a round or half a round regardless of player reactions?

2) With the new custom feat option, am I right in assuming they can be somewhat stronger than what you could get on a "free" widget or spell?

The above concern a Feint-type of custom feat I might like to request.

3) Is it possible/expensive to get a disguise kit widget with a few preset skin colors and heads? Am I paying extra for every head and skin? Richard's head-changer seems to have cost 11 DCs.

1) It just breaks their queue. They can click you again to bring up the attack queue.

2) This is an example of a custom feat: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=69158

3) Not sure.

So it's actually pretty useless? Unless I guess it could be made an instantaneous effect to first break the queue and then immediately attack. What other ways of forcing sneak attacks in the manner of a feint are there? Stun and blind seem a little heavy-handed, though Blind would work perfectly appropriately mechanically. (You are supposed to be able to make a diversion to hide with Bluff, too.)

It might also stop a spellcaster from casting. There's value in that if you can beat their Concentration with your Taunt.

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