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Murex
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 Posted: Thu, Mar 28 2013, 7:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Bini wrote: That's George Lucas holding props from Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Arc, Murex. There's nothing offensive about that. Oh. Cool.
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CelestialDante
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Posted: Thu, Mar 28 2013, 10:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
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I've been thinking regarding pvp that does occur. Often there are instances where I'd imagine a chaotic aligned character (but not resticted to this) would go against the rules/laws of a local place. I will use Bendir Dale as an example since they are in the middle of everything. A Chaotic character may just think this is our chance lets get 'em. However we have ooc restriction against this due to NPC guards.
I am left wondering how often is this spur of the moment action supported by DM's ie controlling the guards with a chance they might loose and such? Is it just a case of notifying a DM before you smack the knight around the head?
_________________
Sir Azeriel El'johnson - Tormtar and Triadic Knight
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Pony
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Posted: Thu, Mar 28 2013, 11:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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No offense taken at all Glim, and I do understand what you are saying. For me this is not about a simple PvP system change but to improve all things that tie into it, like the way conflict rp works on amia. I feel that if we can improve that we can cut down on the problem that a good amount of players often feel badgered by meaningless pvp that they are dragged in, as well as help with the problems that conflict creating factions often deal with.
What I am looking for here really is not an overnight solution, or the team solving it in a week or even a month. That is not why I push. I push when a topic such as this goes no where like in the past, resulting into cluttering itself to death and knowing it will likely be discussed in six months again when the same thing will just happen again until we are at the same place in a year.
So I would not mind if this topic is locked with the message that you will first work on the PvP rules to simplify and possibly change them in a few aspects. In respect to mechanical suggestions however you will leave this topic untouched for a month or two and will reopen it at the end of april or may when a few things currently cluttering the plate are done and you make the time to focus on such a discussion. When it is reopened you give it the attention it deserves and will try to moderate it efficiently.
Everyone can understand that and it gives a rough timeframe. That is very different from getting the same awnser as all the times before, as that results into the exhasperation of players thinking it will just be brushed under the carpet until enough people trip over it again. Perhaps making a time for it and working on it being discussed more effienctly will also help with your side of the problem. I know that I do not enjoy reading through so many pages that go nowhere either.
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RaveN
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Posted: Thu, Mar 28 2013, 13:39 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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There really are two very related problems that surround my grievances with the current PvP system, not only "meaningful RP from death" but rather also "meaningful RP bringing about PvP," you'll find that the mechanical penalty solution impacts the latter more directly. Too often does PvP happen only because people have no regard for what is being said IC and they simply don't care about the consequences because they know there are none.
Yes, Tormak. You're right, for there to be "meaningful RP from death" that needs to be established on a player level, but I'm hoping that once people start understanding that there are supposed to be consequences when they die, and that they are given the consequences when they die... that they won't want to just jump back up and fight instantly, but rather take a little bit of time to think about it. It worked on other servers quite well and still does. I'm not sure if the player culture will be fixed from this but at least if we did this, but even if it wasn't we'd still be fixing one of the major problems.
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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Pony
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Posted: Thu, Mar 28 2013, 13:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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Needled247 wrote: There really are two very related problems that surround my grievances with the current PvP system, not only "meaningful RP from death" but rather also "meaningful RP bringing about PvP," you'll find that the mechanical penalty solution impacts the latter more directly. The meaningful rp bringing about PvP is also the aspect that interrests me the most. I agree completly.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Mar 28 2013, 14:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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To glim regarding the IA thread clutter - This is why you need to out your foot down and hand out warnings to people not adding to the topic. You know, funnu pictures, snide remarks, personal stuff, etcetera. I know exactly what it is you are talking about in those threads.
Just put your foot down.
Moshingchris was very quick when it came about derailing topics, he had zero tolerance.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Glim
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Posted: Thu, Mar 28 2013, 17:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: British Columbia
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It's not even really about derailing, although that certainly does contribute to thread-bloat. If I put my foot down every time I saw one of the sort of posts I'm really talking about, I'd probably get called on being ban-happy, which is not what I'm after. But perhaps a middle ground can be found.
At any rate, yes Phaer, I recognize that the PvP rules are only the tip of the iceberg and that other things are connected to the same issue. And I'm trying to tell you and the others that yes, those things too I intend to address. I have a two-page long thread on death consequences in the DM forums, still bookmarked. And that's two pages of only DMs posting discussion, not an entire playerbase.
I can't assure you of a timeline on this, to do so would be entirely unrealistic. I thought I'd have Guldorand built by now, but seeing more involvement in the Khem plot wrap-up than I thought I'd get, helping Dusty with some Underdark goodies and being bushed from extra shifts at work has seen that timetable go out the window entirely. So I'm not going to make any remarks on a timetable here either. But what I will say is that I recognize the issues just as much as many of the other players here (because yes, DMs are still players too as far as I'm concerned) and I want to see some of these things changed just as much.
Those are the assurances that I can offer.
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Pony
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Posted: Thu, Mar 28 2013, 19:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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Then it is clear you are a horrible person, this server is a horrible place and I am going to go to Kinky Kingdom instead. 
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Palin489
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Posted: Thu, Mar 28 2013, 19:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Aug 2010
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Pony in my Kraut wrote: Then it is clear you are a horrible person, this server is a horrible place and I am going to go to Kinky Kingdom instead. Thanks for your work DM team.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Fri, Mar 29 2013, 1:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Pony in my Kraut wrote: Then it is clear you are a horrible person, this server is a horrible place and I am going to go to Kinky Kingdom instead. Is that where you got that pony for your kraut hole? _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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emzor
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Posted: Fri, Mar 29 2013, 4:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne AUS
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Very_Svensk wrote: Emzoe, did that server have any script that damaged armor? No script that damaged armor. If you died and dropped your armor someone else could use that perfectly good armor if they stumbled upon your corpse in the wild or decided to loot your corpse after PvP. Being a one PC per player server (No Alts) many players chose to Permakill their characters at times of a major PvP or PvE loss. It helped to also keep a fresh circulation of characters and it gave a feeling of success to those who reached the level cap.
_________________
Little Libba
Roruk Steelshadow
Morten Morrowcroft
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Guardian
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Posted: Fri, Mar 29 2013, 11:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Location: The Sky Above The Rain.
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emzor wrote:
No script that damaged armor. If you died and dropped your armor someone else could use that perfectly good armor if they stumbled upon your corpse in the wild or decided to loot your corpse after PvP.
Being a one PC per player server (No Alts) many players chose to Permakill their characters at times of a major PvP or PvE loss. It helped to also keep a fresh circulation of characters and it gave a feeling of success to those who reached the level cap.
Good ol' days, eh, Emz? Thanks for putting me into a flimsy nostalgia  By the by, this is not going to work here. The last time I've proposed a drop of inventory (even partial) on death it was wiped off the table in a matter of seconds.
_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
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Obsidian (inactive)
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Fri, Mar 29 2013, 12:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Damaged armor then?
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Guardian
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Posted: Fri, Mar 29 2013, 12:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Location: The Sky Above The Rain.
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I prefer the death penalties over damaged armor, really. But anyway, since we've a confirmation that the DM team is working on it, let's clear the air a little and give them some space. We can always complain later, when it's done 
_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
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Obsidian (inactive)
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Fri, Mar 29 2013, 12:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Why? Damaged armour from dying is a penalty?
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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emzor
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Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013, 3:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne AUS
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Very_Svensk wrote: Why? Damaged armour from dying is a penalty? I don't mind that idea. The only question is that some players would have a secondary armor set ready to swap out.
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Little Libba
Roruk Steelshadow
Morten Morrowcroft
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013, 6:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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No one likes fucking around w/ item durability.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013, 10:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Nobody likes a penalty but at least a broken armor is easier to wrap your head around.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Guardian
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Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013, 11:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Location: The Sky Above The Rain.
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All right, Svensk, you've persuaded me to go on - must be your brutal persuade skill Two reasons why I do not like the idea of damaged armour : TormakSaber wrote: No one likes fucking around w/ item durability. First reason. Then, I am not sure, but I was living with the impression that magical items are hard / impossible to destroy in battle. And since ever 5 level pup is basically cladded in magical items... And finally, we all know that gold is a pointless value on Amia. So what's more serious : A damaged armour which you repair for a few bucks, or a level / attribute drain due to near-to death experince?
_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
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Obsidian (inactive)
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013, 11:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Sooooo you mean it could be a possible goldsink too?
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013, 11:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Well: why would it be fun? And who would it be fun for?
You said nobody likes a penalty, but that's a bad position to work from. It should be a positive, constructive experience. Repairing armor is very anticlimatic and it's not a real, terrifying risk either.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013, 11:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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I've read most of the topic, but I reckon my opinion of the PvP etiquette remains unchanged. Just concede to every damn thing the other player wants unless it disagrees with roleplay, namely, arising from the dead all of a sudden with your head still on your shoulders even though I emoted *cuts head off* a second ago. My insecurity in RP like that stems from my ignorance of the rules of Pen & Paper (or whatever you want to call those core books and whatnot, telling us how to play our games and allowing Nazis to pinpoint each specific clause as the truth), though I'm not sure if that's even the canon Amia always adheres to.
_________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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666WaysToHell
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Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013, 11:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Western Australia
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I find it is enough of a penalty that players are allowed to destroy their dead enemies corpse.
_________________
Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.
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erroch
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Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013, 11:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
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Guardian wrote: And finally, we all know that gold is a pointless value on Amia. Yes and no.... Gold is a pointless value on Amia to some. Some people have millions of gold (I've heard 200 mil being a friend's last milestone) And yet some 30's I know were shocked that I'd actually hit 1 million. I guess it all comes down to how much mindless grinding of mobs you want to deal with and how long you've been at it. It'd be nifty to see a breakdown of percentage of active characters falling into certain wealth brackets. But I'm just a sucker for good statistical analysis. IronAngel wrote: It should be a positive, constructive experience. The few times I've died (twice in RP now?) it has been, even without the mechanical penalty. But that was just by creating RP around the fact that Dominik didn't stay dead and was pulled back from that brink by a cleric he used to run with. Right now it's all what we make of it. Part of the problem that I think happens now, is the fugue plain treats respawning as if it is an In Character event the first time you die, even though from the above it is a clearly ruled as an OOC mechanic. Some people see that and think. "Oh now I'm on the fugue plain, now the gods decided I'm back, that was simple and awesome!" This may already been addressed though, it's been since 2010 that I've actually respawned instead of been raised/resurrected by a player. But some clear boiler plate in the "where do you want to respawn" option could help with this. Something clarifying that this is an OOC mechanic, and that resurrecting is a traumatic experience, treat it as such. Probably even a reminder that you should not rejoin the pvp encounter if you've released. _________________ 
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013, 11:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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666WaysToHell wrote: I find it is enough of a penalty that players are allowed to destroy their dead enemies corpse. "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -Arnold Swagganegger in Conan of the Barbirian _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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