I probably am. Sorry Yoss.

Yo bro, we don't talk about specific people or events like that

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

But of course you did. You are a follower of an evil deity. From now on, any PvP ouchie will be your fault.

Shame on you, you evil bastard!

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Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

This time we do because it's part of the CoB history, somebody asked and we are also trying to set a few things straight. (I'm gay, so setting things straight with me will be difficult)
Learn from history is a good argument here - Perhaps we can learn from past mistakes. Perhaps the server can learn from how the CoB worked and better integrate with the CoB in the future? Perhaps...




(CoB = Church Of Bane)

_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

I don't think it matters that much, since no one is airing dirty laundry. Heck, it was on the forums already as IC XD Just no one start bitching about it.


But, Sphinx, how do you know he's talking about that specific incident? Jumping to conclusions is bad, mmkay?

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Well let me preface my response by saying I knew it was coming after Dirgesh defaced the idol, but I was merely commenting on what you said about wanting not to engage in PVP. I myself fully accept anything that may happen to my chr by his actions. I simply found it funny that you were taking this stance on PVP. If done correctly and all the rules are followed, PVP is an RP tool just like anything else. You my friend did however initiate the PVP at the end of the day. " You are sentenced to death for yadayadayada" was I think what you walked up to him and said. That however really is niether here nor there.

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Nothin matters berk. Don't you see? Even so a poor sod shoudn't go hungry

IKR?

slavery FUCK YEAH!!!

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Nothin matters berk. Don't you see? Even so a poor sod shoudn't go hungry

Don't worry about it. It has been a very long time. To my recollection I banned you because you became so upset that you were toxic to the community and your fellow players. That's not a judgment call on whether or not you were justified in being upset. Part of me has always thought you were...though another has always realized the reaction to being so was just overboard and put me in a situation where I had to ban you.

For the peanut gallery, the only reason we are talking about this in public is because it was very public in the first place. It all happened out in the open pretty much. But there's nothing personal between Mago and I and there never really was (I had WAY more problems with certain other entities in the faction), so I don't see it as a major issue. However, we should not belabor the point.

Mago, if you're requesting to come back to the server, that's cool. Even though I was the only one who ever decided your banishment and, frankly, the team never really weighed in on it before I did it, it might seem like I could just lift it now myself, but it would be more prudent to check with the whole team. If it were up to me I would just say ok because we've spoken since then and I think there's been some clarity.

And forgive me if I am misreading the intent and you were just stopping by to clarify on something where your legacy was brought up.

Is that Mr Mago ? Darthion player ?

Mago speaks the unfortunate truth, though lately it's not nearly how it used to be.

I've found that people PvP'ing me has actually limited lately, to mainly people who are repeat offenders of the zero-death RP phenomenon.

I guess a lot has changed since back when I played Audrey. I remember the exact same thing you described. People were too busy calling me a powergamer/powerbuilder/PvPwhore when I would never even start any of the PvP. Then they'd turn around and whine that I did. I'm glad to see that for the most part people have somewhat matured on that level. The truth is I probably am the first two things on that list. I dislike PvP but I am a mechanics nut, so naturally I'm going to look like a PvPwhore when I kill 10+ people for being retards and attacking me.

I can't wait until something is enforced in terms of death penalties, or something. Just anything -- really. It's kind of annoying when someone gets decapitated and comes back 10 minutes later. I know people are just like.. "oh, it's just bad roleplay blah blah deal with it." But, no, I really don't want to deal with it. I'd rather ignore that that player and their PC exists entirely, and if that makes me an asshole/bad RP'er then so be it.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

This caught my attention. In my situation, I chose to run by shadowjumping across the yuan-ti temple and portalling away. Did the Banites let me get away? Nope. They gave chase and were actively trying to kill me as I was in the portal animation.

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Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

You're right, Yoss. I was excessive in how I chose to express my opinions. Even though I would probably still stand for many of those opinions (although most of which I don't remember anymore) I would like to apologize for my previous behaviors on these forums.

In regards to the ban, I wouldn't mind having it lifted. I unfortunately doubt I will be able to play the game actively, if at all, considering how the concept of "real life" tends to extort whatever time I do have available, but it would be nice for a change to browse through the forums using my real username.

You were misreading the intent though The simple reason I came out of the dust, was to correct some aspects regarding myself and my old character, which were incorrectly presented. But who knows. Maybe I'll turn up again.

Fair enough. Good to hear from you again. I'll be back in touch with you via PM at the forum handle you've created here about what the team says.

Since I first started playing on Amia I've always appreciated the Church of Bane, both IC and OOC -- and this is coming from a player whose character is their antithesis. They're a constant player-based threat, and give great sources of conflict (which is great, because without conflict there can be no story!). They're a "big bad." Big bad's are great! They should never be outright destroyed, just beaten back. And at times, so should good guys! That's how good stories work. There's give and take, and when someone finally wins out in the end, it's - in no other words - "epic."

As far as this Player versus Player discussion is concerned: I've never understood qualms with PvP. If you PvP on a role play server it's still role play. A paladin and a black guard are practically designed to antagonize one another. It's in the nature of the game, and that's because (as was already stated) conflict is story.

Most of my conflict between my character and the Church of Bane thus far as been PvP. Nobody has died. No spells were fired. Nobody was upset. Why? Because every interaction thus far has been a battle of minds and philosophies. That's still player versus player, you're just using less numbers.

Will it turn into physical conflict? At some point, I'm sure. Does that bother me? No. Honestly, it probably bothers my character much more than it bothers me. But I understand that in good stories, even great heroes and terrible villains are humbled from time to time -- and sometimes that's in combat.

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"I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest."

Hmmm...actually I can only support what the Righteous said before me. I used to be the faction leader of the eternal opponent faction of the banites for more than 4 years. The banite rp was something that I always appreciated on Amia whenever I had the chance to interact with them as Yaston or with my current character.

I usually stay away from topics like these but I suppose I can chime in here. I'm one of those players who truly appreciate the Banite church for the RP it creates. Then again, I'm one of those players whom on previous servers have enjoyed playing conflict-based characters.

I've been in groups on this server where people have been really frightened to run into a Banite to the point where it affects where they'll go with their characters. This is based on checking who is online on the playerlist. I understand that different players like different types of RP, but I think that's taking it too seriously.

Conflicts and PvP is still RP and we are all here to have fun. If it's not your type of fun, you don't have to participate... but you don't have to stay away from certain characters either. Nobody is going to murderize you for seeing you on their screen.

Just because I am feeling nostalgic, I will say that my own PC, whom is now...MIA...once met Darthion. Once. One time. And I must say, it was one of the most terrifying encounters I ever had, because his reputation alone made me mortally afraid for my PC. And him, mortally afraid for his own life, in spite of his veneer of courage (bards are good actors, right?)

I just wanted to point out that the whole tactic of "cultivating a reputation of fear" worked out very well, and I felt its impact myself in the roleplay.

I wished that encounter had lasted longer. Yossarin was a rather good banterer. Shame he/her/it had to take off... so suddenly. I believe Darthion was even rather 'loving', in his approach.

Cupcake.

+1 million.

_________________


Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

I feel it may be hard for those who have never tried to play a Banite to understand how difficult it can be sometimes. For the longest time I played on the "Good Side" and felt like I had the right to stop evil in its tracks wherever and whenever possible. After all, the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad. Playing Natasha (A Banite Priestess) was perhaps the most rewarding experience I had ever had. It came with its drawbacks as well. It was almost as though some players had an OOC grudge against you. Not just your character but you. It was rather disheartening to feel like you weren't a separate entity from your avatar.

All that aside, I can relate to Mago on many levels. My character was by no means infamous but through events certain other characters had grown to know of her and what she was capable of. I felt as though I had to limit my RP so that I would not cause any unnecessary actions that could create a volatile reaction. Natasha was powerful because she had to be powerful. If she was weak and any capped character could walk up to her and smite her then she would not have been a successful Banite at all. It was a very difficult and rewarding and it made me fall in love with Amia all over but it also made me feel pretty hurt that I was a target. I don't know, maybe I am rambling but it has been a while and all these memories are coming back.

Good luck to those of you who wish to revitalize the Black Hand!

To all my fellow Banites, Dread Hand (IIRC) Natasha Lovett says hello. I miss you guys! PM me if you want to chat!

Tasty thread necromancy. The darkest evil of them all.

Is one month really necro? Would it be better to make another Banite thread then?

"It was almost as though some players had an OOC grudge against you. Not just your character but you. It was rather disheartening to feel like you weren't a separate entity from your avatar." - Freezey



I know exactly what you mean, because I too had a Banite. However, believe me when I say, that it's not just Banites that get this "OOC" hate. Sadly, a -lot- of people are completely against hostile roleplay, PVP specifically, despite it being a fairly large part of the game, and they tend to take it to you OOCly, and immediately have distrust / hatred towards all of your characters. (Take this from someone who plays a lot of evil, and very little neutral/good.)

Just my opinion, anyway, but I did love playing a Banite, and I'm sure I will again soon.

_________________
Baator.
Known characters -

Seiko Kepesk Di L'gra
Evelynn Hiyori
Lily Lalene
Olivia
Amy Earthshade

You guys were great. I'd love to see you keep going.

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~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

Claiming PvP is a large part of the game is funny. There's absolutely no reason that someone has to resort to PvP a large portion of the time. Personally I find PvP to be bland most of the time and that most of the instances where I have seen it it was started with poorly conceived reasons that make it look like the person or persons are just hungry for PvP.

PS - My post is a generalization for the server as a whole, not just the CoB. Just before anyone jumps to conclusions.

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

+1

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PVP isnt a large part of the game at all. In fact the game we are talking about was never even designed for PVP at all. The PVP settings enabling players to damage other players is a functionality of the Easy/Normal/DD HCR difficulty slider, nothing else. Evidence also being that any of the popular and "balanced" PVP/Arena servers out there have tons of balance modifications and much, MUCH stricter conduct rules.

You cannot blame people who dont enjoy PVP when they avoid you or your character knowing very well that PVP will come their way. There is little choice in the matter, you either go along and post a + in the RP praise thread to look all grown up, or you screenshot, lose time, post and complain and get called a sissy who cant take IC heat.

It is also a matter of personal opinion and goals. Some people believe no good or evil or neutral goal can be reached without PVP. Some people want to RP flower-picking forest gnomes. The difference being that the gnome doesnt need to force people into an OOC mechanic (Respawn is an OOC mechanic no matter how its put). It also doesnt force you to bossfarm.

So while I appreciate and can commend the Church of Bane for the Ostland RP (which I think is awesome) I have and will continue to avoid the pvp-happy Banite PCs and their players, to save us both from trouble.

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

We reserve the right to attack / kill / maim your character if they get in our character's faces about their loud, suicidial opinions of Bane or His plan, as per His dogma. If your characters actually feared pain, suffering or death as they should, most of the inane PvP situations would be entirely avoided. Think about it. I'm not going to half-ass my character just because you're OOCly offended about getting PvP'd.

PvP is part of both NWN and Amia. It's almost always possible to avoid it too, if you put mechanical redundancy aside and treat the threat of possible death (albeit temporary) as a serious event in your character's story. This is coming from someone who, believe it or not, enjoys roleplaying itself to a great extent. I'm fairly sure a number of people can vouch for that fact, too.

It's easy to keep one's mouth shut instead of going "Fuck Bane" in front of a devout follower of said god. Do you ever tell Jehova's Witnesses or Muslims or whatever to piss off in real life just because you don't share their beliefs and may even think that they're a lil' messed up? I sure don't. Even if we play in a fictional setting where the concepts of evil and good are very real and occasionally very stark, common courtesy is a very easy thing to roleplay.

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

Well sadly PVP -is- a large part of the game(in my opinion), whether it was intended to be or not. Guarantee if you end up in some sort of conflict, which roleplay is bound to bring forth, 90% of the time you'll end up PVPing or just generally breaking your character's personality, at least that's how it is in my case.
(I don't even start any of it, usually, and I've even taken a break from my more aggressive characters to sort of avoid it, AKA Seiko, who was probably the only person I play that sort of antagonized people)

I should -also- point out, that I'm totally open to dodging PVP if the other person's not interested in it(Like I've done with ice/Ais in the past), just nobody seems to go for it once it comes to that point. It's not fun for me, unless it's fun for the other person, too!

Though this probably isn't a good place to debate about things like this, I no doubt shouldn't have mentioned it at all, so if you guys want to talk about this in another topic, I'm down.

And as a side note, avoiding me because of one of my other characters is very saddening to hear, if you actually meant me. None of my characters are the same, I promise, and I have nothing but love for pretty much everyone on Amia.

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Baator.
Known characters -

Seiko Kepesk Di L'gra
Evelynn Hiyori
Lily Lalene
Olivia
Amy Earthshade

Exactly what I meant. You reserve yourself the right to attack (ignoring personnal player preferences, player's hardware, OOC camaraderie, sane reasoning for an IC out, etc), I reserve myself the right to pretend your character is not there *shrugs* That is what I mean by saving both parties trouble. What is a legitimate complaint to one is inflammatory lies to another.

Edit: Helgrim, no I didnt mean you and your characters, to be honest my own characters saw Seiko maybe twice? But the zerg squad of the Black Hand? My one character that cares about them will just remain silent when they are around (IC for him, if it matters for anyone but myself), and most other characters will just walk by because sincerely? The RP that person enjoys doesnt bring me any enjoyment, so I go my way.

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I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

So in other words, you reserve the right for your character to flame my character and his beliefs, then consider it an OOC act if my character potentially retalitates with violence, as per the strict tenets of his deity? Trust me, if Bane said "give flowers to those who defy me", my character would do just that. You're an inconsiderate player if you blatantly accuse us of stroking our e-peens OOC by attacking your character if he gives our characters an entirely legitimate reason to do so, IC.

It's easy to avoid conflict (with a good possibility of violence) with Banites by not stepping on their toes. Have you tried that, instead of "avoiding the players" and "pretending they're not there"? Our characters may be evil, but we as people on the other side of the screen are not. Claiming otherwise and avoiding us for that reason is very offensive.

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

Ohh, okay. Well good, that you're not avoiding me! I know a few people are, but I have a Black Hander of my own, that I haven't been on in a while. Personally, I think you can do what you want as long as it's within the rules.(But I really think you should all reconsider avoiding players, just because of one character that you don't like. Sphinx, and rainydaze are probably the nicest people to me on the server, even when they have a character or two that's a prick.)

But yeah, the people that walk up and start insulting your character(While fully knowing that the character isn't the type to just sit there and take it, this happens all the time) Is sort of asking for it. I'm not saying any names here, but when that happens, and then they complain about the PVP(Even after I give chances for apologies, when the character shouldn't at all) it's actually pretty irritating. I don't know what I'm exactly expected to do, at this point, but I -still- don't hate any of you OOCly!

_________________
Baator.
Known characters -

Seiko Kepesk Di L'gra
Evelynn Hiyori
Lily Lalene
Olivia
Amy Earthshade

Failure in communication here. Let me rephrase. When met with Banite RP the situation ended up in PVP. I didnt agree, as a player, with the justification for PVP nor the "IC out". I will not mention tham again as this is not the place (edit: sue me, I mentioned it anyway), and when I did it before they were, in your words, inflamatory lies bringing more OOC problems to your faction.

After THAT incident, I decided that the RP that the zerg squad is looking for is not for me. So, to be more clear, Oaru ignores Banites, and will not interact with them (for the record he didnt badmouth Bane that day to their faces, and never has). My other characters will probably go by and not say a word, again, there may be an IC reason, but I know the playing styles dont mesh and I dont feel like trying.

So there it is, any accusation or lack thereof should be looked for in this explanation. And to make it clear, if any character starts the passive-aggressive Banite rp, or falls for it, go your merry way and PVP them! I am just saying it will be unlikely with MY characters, not because I will call Bane names and then ignore my toon's death, but because I most likely because I, as a player, dont want to partake in that RP and know it doesnt make any difference to the other side of players.

Lastly, I will call BS on "easy to avoid conflict". Its terribly hipocrite to say that its IC for your toon to attack anyone badmouthing Bane but its not IC for some characters to prefer death than kissing Banite asses. The very PVP situation I mentioned was an example, if you choose to believe my inflamatory lies... It was the zerg squad asking a mute character to apologise for signs she hadnt put on anyway.

Edit 2: Here's the message I mentioned



I now know that the people complaining about OOC raises forgot the rules had been changed by the way. But still the EDK walking inside Kampo's to kill someone at the raft to Nexus was the highlight of that day.

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

Oohh. Well no! I don't think any of us have a problem with people resisting, it's just, when they resist, they decide that they don't like PVP, and complain(Usually, it involves them getting killed, just saying.) And I find that pretty lame.
Though of course, I'm usually up to doing dice fights, since they're there. Doing that's pretty fun too if you're doing it with someone that's actually willing for any sort of negative action to happen to their character.(An example would be, someone wearing cloth, rolling a 1 constitution against the other person's strength roll of 20, assuming they have the same modifiers, and claiming they just shake it off and expect you to get hurt instead. What!?)

I understand people don't like PVP, and that's fine! But walking up to a Banite, and standing there and trash talking Bane to the Banite's face, and expecting to get out scotch free is ridiculous! (Of course I don't mean anyone specific here, I'm just saying.)

Also, as long as your characters have a reason to avoid them and such, that's fine too imo. I just know a few people that will just ignore -all- of my characters, because they've antagonized one of my characters(Or even started fighting them first), and lost, and now believe that I -am- my character. I have a lot of characters, an obvious case of alt-itis, and I reallyy hope one day someone realizes that I'm nothing like any of my characters, and it'd be boring if they were all the same.

[Edit] I'm going to sleep now, because I've been up waaay too long. I'll check this topic again when I wake up though, so if you post, I'll respond.(Just so nobody thinks I'm ignoring them!) Nini!

_________________
Baator.
Known characters -

Seiko Kepesk Di L'gra
Evelynn Hiyori
Lily Lalene
Olivia
Amy Earthshade

That's fair, and nobody expects your characters to kiss anyone's ass. You're right in that your character never hurled taunts at ours, as well. You seem OOCly bothered by the "IC out" given in the situation we are now referencing ― bear in mind that the moment said mute character insulted ours, their IC avenue to avoid PvP was immediately voided. That is all I can really say about it, considering it's apparently bad form to speak of this kind of incidents on an OOC forum.


This should also give more insight to our conduct in regards to hostile actions. That said, I'm not trying to grief anyone OOC by playing evil characters. I feel it'd be unfair to say that all that I do is seek PvP with goodies, because it is not true. I don't appreciate being judged for the actions of my characters, or people being under the illusion that conflict is the only type of roleplay that I enjoy. I'm not here to make your lives as players more difficult ― but I may attempt to make your character's lives harder.

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

I see that event very differently. And that is all I can say about it.

I also dont appreciate being judged by my characters actions, in a reverse way. I dont enjoy PVP in my RP and my hardware cant handle it. That doesnt mean my dwarf is a coward, it means his player will go out of his way to avoid PVP. That only ever works if the opposing side is considerate enough.

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

The event in question here happened quite some time ago now. As far as I recall it, there was a dwarf placing signs that were intended to mock Bane (in full view of Tazul and my own Beatrix). When one looks at this situation from an IC perspective, it's not hard to see why the Banites present took action. It has nothing to do with an OOC want to cause hardship for anyone. To the best of my knowledge, no rules were broken that day.

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¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

I can refresh your memory: A dwarf was dueling a banite when the zerg squad arrived. The signs were already put up, as the three newcomers wait for the duel to finish, mild passive-aggressive RP follows. No sign was ever placed in view of the three newcomers, as Oaru arrived earlier, and never saw anyone placing them.

Duel ends: *smirks* Bah, and he was killed by a slave, no less - Says one Banite.

Beatrix: Who put these up?
Mute Character: ...
Beatrix: Not answering is paramount to heresy!
Mute Character: ...
Beatrix: Brother, you know what to do.
Tazul: *equips mace and what is coming next is pretty obvious*

I am going off memory here, and dont have screenshots so the difference between inflamatory lies and only forum etiquette breach is up to you *shrugs*

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

Firstly, quit calling us a 'zerg squad'. Secondly, your memory is very selective. A sign was placed right in front of us, after the mute character was questioned about them. That is when "you know what to do" appeared. If you don't want to get burnt, don't play with fire. Perhaps you should stop demonizing us OOC for the IC consequences your character's friend deserved well. It's growing old ― A DM has absolved us from all guilt of the instance in question ― why do you insist we've done something we shouldn't have?

_________________
Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

The zerg squad is called such by me because it was the only ingame action I saw them take. Not saying its all you do, but its all I saw. Because my memory can fail me, I actually asked OOC if their character had put up any of the signs. Unless said player lied to me, it confirms my recollection that no signs were placed after the duel.

Not playing with fire is PRECISELY what I said I do, and was called judgemental and unfair.

As you well mentioned, a DM absolved you all, even tho an EDK ran thru the inside of Kampo's to kill a character by the rafts. I am merely arguing my point here, its not like I can do anything about the situation (which I dislike) other than just doing what I do. The character who cares about it sometimes goes OOC so I dont have to interact, and the characters that dont even know will just go on not knowing.

Its the perfect case of agreeing to disagree. You and the other banite players thought everything you did was right. I disagree. DMs agree. SOL for me. I go out of my way to avoid said players and characters. And will do so until a rule is placed making me interact.

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

:<

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

An EDK ran through Kampo's? Hum. I summoned that EDK, I remember exactly what happened -- it ran around Kampo's to attack a mage whom arrived at the scene fully buffed and joined in the fun. But whatever, our party was absolved of any guilt, the entire thing was IC, no rules were broken. This is all water under the bridge.

_________________
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Good to know that I am not the only one with selective memory.

Anyways, I already convinced myself again there is nothing for me in this thread.

_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

Take it to pms or be civil folks... Jesus.

_________________

The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

There are only a few things that I can't stand and poor forum behavior is one of them.

This is my only warning. Keep it civil.

I personally think you strike too hard of a stance, Exquisite.

I love RP. Political/Religious RP is my absolute favorite, and the majority of the time, this comes with very, very little PvP. But the very best Rp I've ever had, came from a handful of people PvPing my character and killing him. Hell, I was dead for almost the entire scene, but it was incredible. The RP that sprung forward from it was exceptional, and completely character changing. My character's story has evolved in an incredible way simply because of that one PvP incident. And its certainly not been the only enjoyable instance of winning and losing PvP. And I'm certainly not the only one to have experienced this.

I enjoy conflict. And I think its very silly to expect conflict to arrive at my door and for me to be immune to the chance of PvP. Yes, there will be conflict Rp that doesn't involve PvP. But that tends to be between lawful merchants, or same-city citizens struggling against each other for power or favorable outcomes. Or perhaps even powerful members in separate cities who would love to go at each others throats, but know that the act could spring war! The kind of conflict that comes with PvP tends to be smaller scale, in my experience. And perhaps even more chaotic (Why wouldn't it be? Isn't it against the law to kill folks over most of Amia?). But chaos doesn't necessitate stupidity, and small scale doesn't mean insignificant. They're simply differing styles of conflict.

This whole topic kind of reminds me of a child claiming that TV isn't that important to him (No, I'm not calling you children. I promise.) But as soon as someone turns off that TV, that kid's gonna get either really mad, or really bored. Let's say, for example-sake, that PvP is not a large part of the game. What would happen if we just.. removed it altogether? If there was zero PvP on the server. I understand its an extreme, but consider how strange it would feel? The argument was made that NWN's mechanics are simply not made to support PvP. But I ask you this: Are NWN's dice rolling systems better suited? When a DM is involved, or two players who generally have a good understanding of the rules and aren't wanting to god-game-- sure! Dice rolling can be a ton of fun. But how can we really standardize it? How can we ensure that players wouldn't be overkill with their emotes? Would we have to have a DM present for all episodes of conflict? And would total knowledge of a purely dice system be a fair thing to expect from our players?

To me, it seems a simple answer: The PvP mechanic is an essential tool to the server's conflict. It's simple, its standardized, and its the best we've got for a server-wide, small scale conflict system. Don't mistake me here, either. I love dice rolling for fighting, but my love for it doesn't weigh over my understanding of its general impracticability as a server method of conflict.
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To speak more specifically on a separate topic addressed here (and in a DMly tone): Flat out ignoring people's RP, on an OOC level (Pretending they aren't there), is extremely poor taste. And will incur penalties (At least from me). ICly? Sure, ignore all you want. But doing this OOCly is a big no-no.



So no, you don't have that right.

And on another administrator note: The EDK incident that was referenced was a result of AI pathing, and simply isn't the fault of its caster. In fact, the reason it happened was because someone else darted into Kampos (And was thus the first to Metagame the guards), drawing the dragon in. Now that its answered, there won't be any more discussion on it in public.

I don't understand how it's OOC for Banites to act aggressive against characters who oppose their diety while it's perfectly IC to go on a killing spree within the Forest of Despair, killing every malarite alive with no other reason then "hunting" or "training".

ICly there's no difference between a NPC and PC.

How can it be so terrible to get engaged in PvP and die when there's no problem getting killed in a dungeon to NPCs? Sure, you choose to go into the dungeon but you can just avoid pvp if you're not OOCly up for it by just sending the other player a polite tell and then find an IC way (if possible) to get around it.
Why do you think PvP is so terrible when PvE is okay and perfectly IC?


If everything was perfectly in character on the server i think there'd be alot more pvp going then it is today. Just look at reality.

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When I see people say that they don't like PvP, or that they don't think that it needs to be a part of conflict, I don't view it as strongly as some might. Instead, I look at it like this: This person probably prefers larger scale conflict between more lawful-based entities. He probably prefers intrigue conflict, and that kind of conflict typically is bred from political incentives.

I certainly wouldn't say that PvP and Conflict are synonymous. I just think that Conflict is too big of a term to properly try to compare to PvP. There's Large Scale conflict, political conflict, love, economical conflict, religious debate (See Lathander vs Amaunator). A lot of these don't come from PvP.

But then there's also mugging, war, assassinations, robberies, bar fights, opposing dogmas meeting in open fields. This is all conflict too! And yeah, this most often ends up being PvP.


The issue is, and I think this is the case with a lot of players, is that some people seem to think of the smaller-scale conflict as less significant. The large scale stuff is immediately rewarding. I mean, you've got cities plotting against each other, resources to consider, large obstacles to overcome. You don't have to work very hard to see the reward in large-scale conflict RP. However, for smaller-scale conflict RP to mean something, its got to come from the character. You've got to make it mean something. Reward yourselves by allowing smaller-scale conflict to impact your character. But bear in mind that the only person who can really, dependably do this, is you.