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exquisitelyme wrote:

Anyone else has problems with the lvl 25+ Earth Elemental Shape? While it is certainly big, the "ghost" of the model, which is clickable and prevents clicking on other items/creatures, literally takes up half my screen (camera all to the back, full screen, 1366x768). Its not the most powerful shape IMHO, but my dwarf druid (race of stone!) would love to be able to use it.

Maybe its some funky graphics setting, or is it THAT big for everyone else?

Some people will probably lynch me for it, but it's probably better I change the 25+ earth elemental model back to the Bioware default, if it's causing these issues.

Yes, what Amarice said is accurate.

Sune: sent you some screenshots so it a more accurate point. Also, does the number of PCs with 25+ levels of druid justify a selectable skin for the last Elemental Shape, like the EMD creature selection works? This way its still a one time choice between a VERY cool model for RP, but a more viable but less unique model.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

I have never seen anyone use a Ring of Nine Lives, because Heal Potions do exactly the same thing but are superior as a potion.

That is true, but a ring is instantenous and can save someone else's life. I know because I hoarded these rings for that very reason. :p Not to mention that the seemingly only place with "Heal Other" thingies seems to be an epic SD shop... Anyway, Lute of Midnight Song was a thingy with 3 Ultravisions a day, it was a convenience item!

Earth Elemental works fine for me, I use it a lot.

For the Bard Skill: Stonesong, which levels are used as the Caster Levels? Bard only?

EDIT: I would think it has a preset value, or minimum CL, since it acts more powerfull with lower levels than expected.

The monk who would sell monk gear sets depending on your choice, is he gone?

They're "updating" him, from what I hear.

Is there much value in the skill "taunt" here?

Taunt is a boss skill, wherever you play NWN. A potential to inflict -6 AC for 5 rounds? Yes please.

mirvala- wrote:

For the Bard Skill: Stonesong, which levels are used as the Caster Levels? Bard only?

EDIT: I would think it has a preset value, or minimum CL, since it acts more powerfull with lower levels than expected.

Bard levels, silly ;p

Sphinx wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

I have never seen anyone use a Ring of Nine Lives, because Heal Potions do exactly the same thing but are superior as a potion.

That is true, but a ring is instantenous and can save someone else's life. I know because I hoarded these rings for that very reason. :p Not to mention that the seemingly only place with "Heal Other" thingies seems to be an epic SD shop... Anyway, Lute of Midnight Song was a thingy with 3 Ultravisions a day, it was a convenience item!

Well, exactly. Being able to instantaneously heal someone else back up to full is pretty silly, as it devalues those elusive healer characters even further. It wouldn't be an issue if we had Heal scale to caster level, but we don't, so this happens.

That opinion applies to the SD store which sells Heal scrolls also, by the way, Haven't got to there yet, though.

Where was that Midnight Lute sold? I don't remember removing something like that.

Lute of the Midnight Song, if Sphinx is talking about the same one I know, which was told by the merchant in the Shrine of Eilistraee. It did Darkness and Ultravision #/day.

Naivatkal wrote:

mirvala- wrote:

For the Bard Skill: Stonesong, which levels are used as the Caster Levels? Bard only?

EDIT: I would think it has a preset value, or minimum CL, since it acts more powerfull with lower levels than expected.

Bard levels, silly ;p

After testing it in game, however low your bard levels are, it casts it with a minimum of 11 CL, since it is a sixth level spell, and the first arcane caster to get it, the wizard, get it at level 11, so whoever technically casts this spell must have at least 11 Caster Levels. Since you get it without the 11 CL, I think it is scripted to always react like you were at least CL 11.

I completely misread the original question XD I thought you meant the requirement to attain it, lol

To go along with that: Do the genasi spell-like abilities scale? What's their CL? Nothing mentions it far as I have seen.

It scales. All the spell-likes do.

Cerpin Taxt wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Specialists, on Amia? Don't tell fibs!

(Though you do have a point there.)

I'm an abjuration specialist.

You're not the only specialist, do not worry.

Is starting a grapple counted as pvp?, and does it follow the same rules of pvp (such as a reasonable chance to back down ic)? , and is it stated anywhere officially that grapple rolls cannot be denied?

It depends on what you're using grapple for.

There's only one thing you can use a grapple check for: starting a grapple. Which of course counts as PvP.

I can't find it stated anywhere that grapple checks are the exception to the PnP consent rule, which in all honesty, I'd be perfectly content to see that exception lifted, and keep grapple no different than any other PnP effect. The grapple system in the dice bag is not adequate to its task.

That will royally screw over city guards. If people were allowed to deny and ignore the use of grapple checks, they could run around any city and break whatever law they want leaving the guard PC standing there scratching his head as to how or why he can't grab the criminal and throw him out.

Question about shifter shapes. Should the wis and cha bonus of some shapes be added to equipment bonuses or do they replace them. Currently they are not stacking and i want to know if that is bug. Also as a side note, wisdom potions do not work when taken after shifting. The only potion that doesn't, as far as i can tell.

It's not a bug. Everything gets merged to your hide after you shift. If there's a Wisdom bonus already on the hide of the form you're shifting into, it won't stack.

Wisdom potions work fine after shifting. You're likely already at the +12 WIS cap.

Long story short, treant13, it replaces them, much to my disappointment. Now long story:

When you use any shifter shape, it sets your base stats STR, DEX, and CON to a new number unless you have a higher number by default. If you put 16 into strength and shift into a form that only has a base 10 strength, you keep your 16. It always takes the higher stat.

IE: You have <20 strength by default (white number), shift into a minotaur, you now have 20 strength by default (white stat) plus merging/equipping your single best +strength item (+4 strength belt brings it up to 24). It only counts a single +strength item, doesn't matter if you have +12(max magical bonus) throughout all your gear, it will only merge/equip the highest +ability numbers. In other words, you want one item that adds the highest value to STR possible, another that adds the highest value to DEX, and another to CON.

However, the caster forms (Lizardfolk, Raksasha, etc) add a magical +4 to wisdom. You get a new base STR, DEX, and CON as always, but are essentially equipping a +4 wisdom item. Again, doesn't matter if you have +12 throughout all your gear, it'll only count the highest item.

IE: You have 26 base wisdom without items. With items you are capped at 38 out of form. Shift into Lizardfolk, it's now 26 base plus the "new item" (that only appears in a caster form) with +4 WIS, which brings your wisdom up to 30. In other words, even if you were to have the epic drop +6 wisdom amulet, it would only bring your wisdom up to 32 - only an additional 2 wisdom from not having any +wisdom gear at all. This is because your form is essentially adding an item with +4 WIS on it for you.

Potions and buffs do not count towards the merging. To my knowledge, the best +ability bonus you can get is +4 on any one item (besides the +6 wisdom amulet). This would mean that you could get a max of +9 to any ability (+4 from an item, +5 from a buff/potion) while shifted, where as non shifters can easily cap their main stat at +12 with gear alone.

This hampers the DC's in the shifter's caster forms. I'd like it if the Dev's changed it so it would add +4 to your BASE wisdom stat, and not be a magical bonus.

As far as the potions not adding wisdom while shifted, pretty sure that's a bug... As I stated previously, when you shift into lizard/raksasha, it'll unequip all your wisdom gear and give you an item with +4 wisdom on it. That's the only magical bonus to wisdom at that point until you get drink a potion or get Owl's Wisdom. It will never cap at +12 magical bonus in shifted forms. Closest you can get is 11 with the +6 wisdom amulet and +5 from a buff.

This is all to my knowledge at least. I've done some testing, but it could be more thorough. Be gentle if I'm wrong and please state why because I'd very much like to know if I am. I'm sure you knew most of that already, but hopefully I answered your question and could clear up anybody elses questions about shifters as well

Owls wisdom scrolls could perhaps help? Im not sure

Just wondering if someone could clarify a little on how cannibalism is treated in general? It's mentioned as a part of the 'Graphic Torture' rules (http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtop ... 84#p918584), and appears there as 'detailed cannibalism'. But later on it mentions consent, etc. Have a good read of that whole section to refresh your memories before answering this:

- Is consent required when doing something to a dead body?
- ^ Is that considered torture for the purposes of this rule, or is the mutilation/consumption/etc of a corpse a different issue?

- I won't go into graphic details, but are the following emotes generally accepted? (Would any of them require consent from the other player?)
*Rips out throat.*
*Rips out heart and bites into it.*
*Spreads the corpse's blood over own body.*

- The rule specifically mentions 'emotes or talk'. Does this mean that a character cannot threaten another character with what they will try to do to them? So here I'm thinking some evil character describes some nasty thing he wants to do to a victim in order to scare them.
- And leading on from that last question, is psychological torture something which falls under this rule? Or are these rules more just to stop the graphic descriptions of physical things happening to a character?

Yeah I cap by using my +6 wisdom amulet and an owl insight scroll. Works pretty well.

You can buy the scrolls in barak runedar monastery, love <3

No, shifters do not need a buff to their spell casting. It's already incredibly powerful as it is.

O'Raghailligh wrote:

Is starting a grapple counted as pvp?, and does it follow the same rules of pvp (such as a reasonable chance to back down ic)? , and is it stated anywhere officially that grapple rolls cannot be denied?

Insofar as I've RP'ed and used this, which I have to a lot as a guard, you give the person a reasonable chance to back down I.e. Comply with some law. If they refuse you can grab them. Now I generally immediately roll grapple after emoting grabbing as a rule ((Theres a few people who make it more elaborate, with a str touch vs. AC THEN opposing grapples)) and people then have the choice to either roll opposing grapple, or find some other way to oppose what is being done.

That said, they cannot just ignore the fact they are being grabbed, or say "evades and runs off" without actually doing anything, the DMs have made that clear with a number of intercessions that have occurred during arrests and the like while I've been playing here. If a guard, or even a random ass person, goes to grab you, you can't just automatically avoid every attempt or ignore the grab attempt. You do NOT have to do grapple vs. grapple though.

Last edited by PuttheLime on Sat, Apr 27 2013, 17:11 PM, edited 1 time in total.

treant13 wrote:

Yeah I cap by using my +6 wisdom amulet and an owl insight scroll. Works pretty well.

You can't cap it, best you can do is +11, which is good, but it's an odd number which means you'll lose out an a modifier unless you have an odd # for your base WIS.

ie.
26 (+8) -> 37 (+13)
Opposed to:
27 (+8) -> 38 (+14)... Extra DC point.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

No, shifters do not need a buff to their spell casting. It's already incredibly powerful as it is.

If that's the consensus. I don't have an epic level shifter, but I honestly don't see why everybody thinks so. My Wizard's summon creature 8 would blow away my shifter without any buffs despite my shifter being a higher level. I guess it's just that I'd like some reasons as to why everybody is so adamant about them being OP, not just pointing and saying it. I mean, I must be doing something wrong with mine, because I don't see it. Maybe I just have to wait and see.

My original point was that shifters won't ever match the DC's of other caster classes. To even get close they have to use Owl's Wisdom and an epic loot drop, where as my wizard can easily get +12 INT from gear alone.

I don't play my shifter for the build though, I play it for the RP, it's just disappointing when I have to face so many powerbuilds that 1 shot me.

Isn't the owls insight lvl 15 on a scroll giving +7 to wisdom. I could be wrong though.

treant13 wrote:

Isn't the owls insight lvl 15 on a scroll giving +7 to wisdom. I could be wrong though.

Didn't realize you could get Owl's Insight on scrolls. If you can get one that adds +7 WIS, then yeah, I suppose that would cap it out... My apologies then! That's good news for me! Yay!

DolphinRacer wrote:

Now I generally immediately roll grapple after emoting grabbing as a rule ((Theres a few people who make it more elaborate, with a str touch vs. AC THEN opposing grapples)) and people then have the choice to either roll opposing grapple, or find some other way to oppose what is being done.

If it is mandatory to grapple, then shouldn't grapple be carried out the same way by everyone? Perhaps like it says to here? http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple

There should be a set of steps that is to be followed by everyone and easily accessible to everyone.

See, the thing about the grapple rules though, Dolphinracer, (and the reason I think the dicebag grapple system is so halfassed) is that there actually *are* any number of ways the target can legitimately ignore the grapple attempt. Any % miss chance applies to that grapple touch attack, Epic Dodge will let you dance right around it, and most commonly, anyone wearing any item with a Freedom effect is 100% immune to being grappled. Not to mention the fact that unless you have the Improved Grapple feat (which nobody does), then the target is entitled to an attack of opportunity every time you attempt the grab. The system we're given doesn't take any of that into account, and instead expects the target to know the PnP grapple rules to know what their options are, or even to know they they in fact *have* any other options beyond rolling counter-grapple. It's supposed to be Amia's policy that players shouldn't ever be required to know PnP rules to play. The grapple rolls in the dicebag need a serious overhaul before I'd ever feel good about using them.

What if there was a grapple widget. Causes immobilization or paralyzes the target. Could even technically be used on monsters. Would require hostile on and then acts as an attack. Just am idea though.

treant13 wrote:

Would require hostile on and then acts as an attack.

Wouldn't this make it unusable in, say, the main areas of Cordor?

Also about the shifters. My main is a shifter and though i don't v feel over powered I feel incredibly strong. With the right shape I can solo almost everything. I will also say that as a shifter you should easily be able to beat any equal level summon. If you feel like you are missing something or don't know why you're shifter isn't strong, please send a pm and i can probably you out, if you want that is.

Good point about the hostile, but then again it is just a starting idea. I leave it to others to tweak.

Grapple as it stands works for what it is used for, even if it doesn't rigidly conform to the PnP version of grapple or have the feats and crap. If you want all the PnP abilities, rules, regulations, skills, feats, races, classes, etc, then you shouldn't be playing on a NwN server, because you already know you can't and won't get all those. Its just not feasible for a number of reasons.

I for one strongly believe it should be left as is because it serves a purpose and does it well enough, and if people bother to be creative, there are a lot of ways to still counter it.

http://www.dorkistan.com/dorkistan/PFRPG/misc/grapple.htm

Grapple is COMPLICATED

The d20 SRD explanation is way clearer than that one.

If it aint broke, don't fix it. It's fine as it is now. I'm not going to waltz into Wiltun (or any city for that matter) fully spelled up and then tell your Guards that you can't grab me because I've got a freedom cloak, or whatnot. That's what a dick does.

Plus then we'll just flat out kill you :twisted:

Okay, Wiltun was a bad example, but my point still remains.

It's not a dick move at all. It's exactly equivalent to walking into Wiltun (or wherever) with a fire immunity ring, and telling people that they can't fireball you.

So if I walked into Kohlingen, punched the Justicar in the face.. I could just walk out because no one could physically grab me because of an item with freedom on it?

I imagine once they (quickly) figured out that grabbing you wasn't going to work, they'd move on to throwing dudes with swords at you, rather than just shrugging and letting you walk away grinning. But yes, their attempts to grapple you would all fail.

Great. Now Kohlingen will have to start executing children for petty theft. Because everyone on Amia has freedom anyway!

The shock-scenarios are getting excessive.

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