AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

And kholingen. Considering half of djedet is there now. And in truth they are now probably spreading through the entire isle.

So in a year - Its one of amias regional subraces.

Did you know mulhorandi are actually egyptian people from earth?

That's one of the things I liked about them. I love Ancient Egyptian culture :3

Very_Svensk wrote:

And kholingen. Considering half of djedet is there now. And in truth they are now probably spreading through the entire isle.

So in a year - Its one of amias regional subraces.

Did you know mulhorandi are actually egyptian people from earth?

I can assure you they would not be spreading out away from Kohlingen.

Because the boss is waiting, he told them to stay there, and he has a whip.

Buildy Shit:

What's the best gear for a melee cleric of Berronar Truesilver? I want her to have a combination of a decent amount of spellslots, at least enough to buff her and a summon, and a decent amount of str/cha.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

And kholingen. Considering half of djedet is there now. And in truth they are now probably spreading through the entire isle.

So in a year - Its one of amias regional subraces.

Did you know mulhorandi are actually egyptian people from earth?

I can assure you they would not be spreading out away from Kohlingen.

Because you say so? Why can't his pc be an exception from the norm.

He's talking about the NPCs. They wouldn't be too trustful to leave Kohl. They trust the city at least but not many wetlanders especially on Amia.

However if he does go that route I would hope it was RPed correctly as someone very cautious. There's a lot to Mulhorandi that can make it fun. Mine's an exception because of her past and her personality. She's like the black sheep of Mulhorand, haha.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh

Because the entire point of Subraces is to back them up with Lore?

If you have an actual decent RP reasoning sure. But it's the same reason you don't see rampant Chultans running around. They're specifically few BECAUSE of the nature of their people.

Same reason you don't just "play a Shadovar" unless they ACT like a Shadovar. Certain cultures just have certain things like not straying from the fold from birth. It's neither easily nor flippantly overcome.

P Three wrote:

Uhhhhhhhhhhh

Because the entire point of Subraces is to back them up with Lore?

If you have an actual decent RP reasoning sure. But it's the same reason you don't see rampant Chultans running around. They're specifically few BECAUSE of the nature of their people.

Same reason you don't just "play a Shadovar" unless they ACT like a Shadovar. Certain cultures just have certain things like not straying from the fold from birth. It's neither easily nor flippantly overcome.

You don't see them because people don't like playing black characters.

Cerpin Taxt wrote:

P Three wrote:

Uhhhhhhhhhhh

Because the entire point of Subraces is to back them up with Lore?

If you have an actual decent RP reasoning sure. But it's the same reason you don't see rampant Chultans running around. They're specifically few BECAUSE of the nature of their people.

Same reason you don't just "play a Shadovar" unless they ACT like a Shadovar. Certain cultures just have certain things like not straying from the fold from birth. It's neither easily nor flippantly overcome.

You don't see them because people don't like playing black characters.

Too bad even characters that have flippantly overcome their standing as a Shadovar are eagerly embraced by Amia's moderation.

Bini wrote:

Too bad even characters that have flippantly overcome their standing as a Shadovar are eagerly embraced by Amia's moderation.

Because on Amia, exceptions are becoming norm, and norm is becoming exception. And when I thought my "elf who worships human god because of sad and terrible past" would be something original...have to fight urge to laugh how naive was I back then...

@P Three:
You should get decent armors at Salandrans, and some rings for additional cleric spell slots (relatively early). Shield of the Triad is a must, and I believe I've seen +4 ac +2 wis boots at Kohl I think (if you need strength, those Sandals at Barak can help since there's no more class prereqs). If you get some friendly druid who makes +4 nat armor barkskin pots, could as well go with +5 wisdom amulet (otherwise get +4 ac amulet and mythal +2 stat on it, not sure if that cheesy +3 ac, +2 str and wis and -4 to death saves amulet is still around).
As for weapon, mace is Berronar's favoured weapon and there's that Dwarven Kneecapper mace available, but you also can't miss (literally) with a warhammer too (Old 'n' Stout, Moradin's Maul & co.).

Remal wrote:

Bini wrote:

Too bad even characters that have flippantly overcome their standing as a Shadovar are eagerly embraced by Amia's moderation.

Because on Amia, exceptions are becoming norm, and norm is becoming exception. And when I thought my "elf who worships human god because of sad and terrible past" would be something original...have to fight urge to laugh how naive was I back then...

The difference being no unscrupulous evil empire is after the 'exceptional elf' like they are the deserter Shadovar. One is unfortunate and irksome to players whose more appropriately elven characters are being diminished by the presence of these special characters, versus something as improbable and problematic by mere existence as a demon paladin.

This is why there's even a note on the Shadovar subrace mentioning it's a lore-intensive race and ideal to contact a DM first for info about your concept. We entertained the notion of making it a request-only race at some point, but no one generally likes it when we do that, and the majority of Shadovar I've seen are played well. Yeah, there's going to be a dumb one floating about here and there, but I can take things like that with a touch of amusement and not get too bothered about it.

More human-ish elves isn't nearly as uncommon as you'd believe, especially for moon elves. There's quite a few examples of elves following human gods in D&D, so it isn't exactly like you're playing something that should get you booed off the server.

Likewise, exceptions on Amia are not 'becoming norm'. Perhaps it only finally settles in after you've been here a while, but we're not a hard-line server. Otherwise, we'd essentially have to make every subrace save the regular ones request-only... and even then it's still possible to make oddities with the vanilla races. I could make a plain human male still 'special' and a bit unique over everyone else. It's not a problem inherent to Amia, it's a problem with RP in general where everyone wants to play something a bit unique, and no amount of rules to strangle creativity will stop that. It's human nature.

More restrictions to freedom of choice here will only hamper us. What we can do, is to point players in the right direction.
Let people play the exception to the norm if they get a kick out of it - We have all followed that path once or twice.

Hi!

I'm curious, does anybody know how strong the Blackguard summon is from the Book of Vile rituals?

I've played a Blackguard before on other servers and remember that the normal epic summon from Epic Fiendish Servant absolutely sucked!(A level 12 Vrock? Come on!)
I'm guessing that the Book of Vile Rituals is there to fix that, along to provide some opportunities for RP of course.

Does anybody have any insight on the matter?

Alaria- wrote:

Hi!

I'm curious, does anybody know how strong the Blackguard summon is from the Book of Vile rituals?

I've played a Blackguard before on other servers and remember that the normal epic summon from Epic Fiendish Servant absolutely sucked!(A level 12 Vrock? Come on!)
I'm guessing that the Book of Vile Rituals is there to fix that, along to provide some opportunities for RP of course.

Does anybody have any insight on the matter?

It's good enough to kill players.

I have been a week or two on Amia now (or back on Amia since 2008) and I dont think exceptions are the norm on the server.
Many to most pc's are well within whats 'standard' for their classes and race which I consider pleasant immersion wise. Sure, they have some quirks but nothing you'd determine at first sight which leaves a lot of room to discover things through rp.

And lets not forget; The drive to adventure alone sets people apart from their race alone ussually and that alone makes them somewhat differant already. Haflings tend to avoid adventure naturally as do dwarves and gnomes and elves to a slightly lesser extend. So by making an adventuring pc you already are somewhat of an exception. I dont see a problem there or we would have a very boring server as everyone made muffins all day long.

Alaria- wrote:

Hi!

I'm curious, does anybody know how strong the Blackguard summon is from the Book of Vile rituals?

I've played a Blackguard before on other servers and remember that the normal epic summon from Epic Fiendish Servant absolutely sucked!(A level 12 Vrock? Come on!)
I'm guessing that the Book of Vile Rituals is there to fix that, along to provide some opportunities for RP of course.

Does anybody have any insight on the matter?

The BG epic summons are quite powerful here even without the Book of Vile Rituals. Well, I can only comment on the CE one, but I assume the other two aren't significantly worse.

So a friend of mine is interested in Blackguards. Since I wasn't in a need of a new build for a while I got a lil' rusty. What's the situation with the BG nowdays? Epic fiend? STR based? Charisma maybe? Something, something? What are the options and what are the end results?

The player of Gein rocks a badass BG/KC, that's all I can say.

I know, already talked to him.
But still opinions are welcome.

The main issue with Blackguards is how to arrange the stats. You need 14 wis for unholy sword, you also need 12-14 int to have enough skill points, for deving we need to start off at 17-18 str. What's with CHA?

Str-based is always a good bet, you'll hit hard and devcrit+AoD is sexy. Cha is nice to have but you can't really rely on it, since your smites will only be marginally effective in a few circumstances, and Divine Might without much AB isn't much use. It's easy to buff though, so definitely worth grabbing the feats for a few rounds of awesome. I wouldn't go less than 14 wis because the goodies are fun, and also neat for DC-requested spells and the like. You can get away with less int, especially with rogue levels, but you'll definitely be tight for skill points. Race/subrace choices can help to minimize this. You can get away with 8 dex, though you probably shouldn't skimp much on con.

This is just my perspective, from having a feytouched blackguard.

Dead wrote:

So a friend of mine is interested in Blackguards. Since I wasn't in a need of a new build for a while I got a lil' rusty. What's the situation with the BG nowdays? Epic fiend? STR based? Charisma maybe? Something, something? What are the options and what are the end results?

Try 13 Rogue, 16 BG, 1 Ranger - EPic dodge, Dual wielding!

Unless your friend wants to take the Dex BG route, it's either Dev Crit (Str) or DM&DS (Str+Cha). I guess one can have both, but it's hardly effective and comes at a heavy cost which I reckon is not worth it.

Personally I prefer the latter, but it depends on one's taste and RP. The former has more AB, HP and skill points (as one can have more Str, Con & Int) while the latter has better saves, can reach up to ~70 AC and is all around one charming badass. In either of the cases, it's hard to mess up 12 Fighter/ 16 BG /2 Rogue. Epic Fiend is a must at 16 BG.

Blackguard Questions
Epic dodge;
30 Tumble, (Defensive roll + Improved Evasion) 25+ DEX

Dev.crit;
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Overwhelming Critical.

Epic dodge is 3 feat (Including Epic dodge)
Devastating Critical is 6 feats (Including Dev. itself)

Going the dex-route may result in a loss of damage, but you will have so much more space in your build for other things - Like Divine power/Might etc

Rogue13/Bg16/Ranger 1
#1 Wep focus
#2 Blind Fight
#3 Imp.Crit
#4 Weapon FInesse
#5 Power attack
#6 Divine Shield
#7 Divine power
#8 ???

Epic Feats
#9 - Great DEX
#10 Armor skin
#11 Epic Prowess
#12 Epic Dodge
#13 Epic Fiend(BG Extra)
#14 Epic Weapon Focus (BG Extra)

I would say that it is a loss to go the Dev.Route.
- It costs to much feats.
- You loose AB
- You loose AC
- You gain Damage.

Edit - The best part is that the above build works incredibly well on elves (Since it only requires 7 feats) and dwarves. Even halflings excel with it.

I'm a big fan myself of the 13 rogue/16 BG combo. The blackguard sneak attack coupled with the Rogue sneak attack makes for a really solid sneak-damage attack. Plus, you've got a hardy summon to keep aggro for you.

You're essentially playing a kind of combat rogue with great saves, one of the highest AC characters in the game, and incredible sneak damage. And some fun RP tools from the BG class.

Yarp. I got here late. Dex BG is more well rounded. The summon can dish damage and allows you to flank like a boss.

Dev Crit is just meh, it is a huge investment of feats for something that while incredible in pvp for a 1 hit lucky stunner and sometimes nice in PvE is not really needed. The characters who have high enough strength kill things so quickly anyway in PvE that Dev Crit has been redundant in my opinion in many cases.

Did we mention it's very easy to level also?

What Svenks means to say is obviously because you're a charming charisma high blackguard you can outsmile others and get them to do the heavy lifting for you. Thus leveling made easy!

Righto, haven't had the need to make a build in ages, so I've forgotten how to do it. Help me out here.
What I'm looking for is a dual-wielder, primarily. I've been trying to think of a good build, but I can't come up with one/decide one. The options I've thought of so far;

Ranger, propably could work but I don't know how to build a ranger efficiently.

Barbarian/Rogue/Perhaps something, dual-wielding rapiers or scimitars, Dev-Crit and RAEG!

Rogue/Fighter/Weaponmaster, lots of rogue levels, high sneak damage. Not sure whether it should be dex-based or rely on maxed damage with rapiers/kukris, Dev-Crit and high sneak attacks.

Anyone got any opinion on the ideas out there or maybe some better ones? Preferably no BG in the build, already got 3 of those.

Handaxes. Ranger. Str-Based.

Highest damage in the game vs favored.

sYuzan wrote:

Righto, haven't had the need to make a build in ages, so I've forgotten how to do it. Help me out here.
What I'm looking for is a dual-wielder, primarily. I've been trying to think of a good build, but I can't come up with one/decide one. The options I've thought of so far;

Ranger, propably could work but I don't know how to build a ranger efficiently.

Barbarian/Rogue/Perhaps something, dual-wielding rapiers or scimitars, Dev-Crit and RAEG!

Rogue/Fighter/Weaponmaster, lots of rogue levels, high sneak damage. Not sure whether it should be dex-based or rely on maxed damage with rapiers/kukris, Dev-Crit and high sneak attacks.

Anyone got any opinion on the ideas out there or maybe some better ones? Preferably no BG in the build, already got 3 of those.

Ranger:
25 Ranger/4 Fighter/1 Rogue
25 Ranger/5 Master Scout

Barbarian/Rogue: (No dev crit, wtf you're dual wielding rogue, dev is lamesauce, and medium wepaons give horrid penalties for dual wielding)
16 Barbarian/13 Rogue/1 Ranger , epic dodge, rageyness

Dev-Crit Barbarian:
24 Barbarian / 4 Fighter / 2 Rogue (dev crit or EDR III)

Rogue / Fighter / WM:
13 Rogue/ 10 Fighter / 7 WM (epic dodge)
16 Rogue/6 Fighter/ 7 WM (subrace special, if not add 1 Rogue) -> Epic dodge + crippling strike

These are a start, a template, a stencil. Now go color, paint, paper mache, whatever you want inside these lines. Bring it back and get it critiqued. Then you will learn.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Handaxes. Ranger. Str-Based.

Highest damage in the game vs favored.

I've played a str ranger dual wielding hammers with a boar and can attest to this.

I can also attest because of my dex ranger with handaxes, that with proper gear setting. You lose only 6 damage per hit (and the opportunity for dev which means more saves or other feats) and you get that much AC back.

Dex Ranger is universally better, I've played both. I build like boss, I gear set like a hacker. Str looks sexy. Nobody likes being the first person to die though.

Dex Ranger I can also mathematically prove does more damage over time. This is because you can dual wield more often. Losing 6 damage per hit, is crap compared to getting 2 extra attacks. You get to dual wield in more places because your dexterity makes up for shield AC difference (not quite but closer).

You steamrolled the abyss faster then anybody. It was insane. God i love rikku...

Dex rangers also more properly wield a bow, and use hiding skills to greater effect. I have a strength ranger myself, but that's because I liked his burly.. ness.

Dex Ranger is the cooler build.

Very_Svensk wrote:

You steamrolled the abyss faster then anybody. It was insane. God i love rikku...

Haste wands and potions and being careful. Rikkudai could clear the abyss with Khan the great and mighty haha.... It is incredible damage. But I was chugging heal potions to make up for that lack of AC. Was fun with groups though.

Ranger 25/Fighter 4/Rogue 1

Elf-Fire Genasi (I know, most odd, but don't throw rocks at me just yet, since it's just the build-phase.)

STR 10
DEX 18 -> 26
CON 12
WIS 14
INT 16
CHA 6

Feats (7 Pre-Epic, 9 Epic [4+2Epic Ranger, +3 Fighter])

Pre-epic:

Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus
Improved Critical
Toughness
Knockdown
Improved Knockdown
Great Fortitude
---
Epic:
Bane of Enemies
Epic Weapon Focus
Epic Prowess
Great Dexterity
Epic Fortitude
Epic Skill Focus: Spot
Armor Skin
Weapon Specialization
Epic Weapon Specialization

What do you think I should improve? Not sure about weapons yet, was thinking maybe handaxes.

sYuzan wrote:

Ranger 25/Fighter 4/Rogue 1

Elf-Fire Genasi (I know, most odd, but don't throw rocks at me just yet, since it's just the build-phase.)

STR 10 STR 14
DEX 18 -> 26
CON 12
WIS 14
INT 16 INT 14
CHA 6

Feats (7 Pre-Epic, 9 Epic [4+2Epic Ranger, +3 Fighter])

Pre-epic:
#1Weapon Finesse
#2Weapon Focus
#3Improved Critical
#4 Toughness (Blind fight)
#5Knockdown
#6Improved Knockdown
#7 Great Fortitude (Dodge!)
---
Epic:
#1Bane of Enemies
#2Epic Weapon Focus
#3Epic Prowess
#4Great Dexterity
#5Epic Fortitude (Good Choice!)
#6Epic Skill Focus: Spot
#7Armor Skin
#8Weapon Specialization
#9Epic Weapon Specialization

What do you think I should improve? Not sure about weapons yet, was thinking maybe handaxes.

You probably need more STR - Perhaps 14.
And i added blind fight instead of Toughness (Only gives +30HP).

Actually - Either go Dodge (+1AC) instead of Fortitude

I'd have to drop CON to 10 to get STR 14.

Newp, it takes 2 points to get 15, then another 2 for 16. So bam, 4 points to bump a 10 to 14

sYuzan wrote:

I'd have to drop CON to 10 to get STR 14.

What? No. You drop INT by 2 points like i wrote! You do not need that many skillpoints!

How are you getting those stats anyways? I'm calculating It would take 34 points to get
10 STR
18 DEX (20 with the Elven race at creation)
12 CON (10 with the Elven race at creation)
14 WIS
14 INT
8 CHA

After applying fire gen:
10
18
12
14
16
6

Unless you meant it would be 18 DEX including the Elven +2, which means you'd only get 16 DEX after the fire gen stats are applied (I don't think they stack?).

Very_Svensk wrote:

sYuzan wrote:

I'd have to drop CON to 10 to get STR 14.

What? No. You drop INT by 2 points like i wrote! You do not need that many skillpoints!

That 16 INT includes the +2 Racial. Also I forgot genasi traits surpass elven traits, so I miscalculated that entirely.
So if I want to start with Dex 18 and Wis 14, it'll be more like:

STR 10
DEX 18
CON 10
WIS 14
INT 14
CHA 6

Muspelkvist wrote:

"Highest damage in the game"

Nope!

Not before, definitely not now. Not trying to undermine what you said, it is a solid damage dealer still, just not exactly what you claim it to be.

If it's a ranger 25'ish with FTR's Epic Weapon Spec and Warforged Handaxes, it'll fall in the middle range of damage potential for STR melee builds - average damage per round = ~482,3.

There is a lot of builds going 600+, 690 with Terrifying Rage for example; maximum i could concoct is 708 average... and it's a WM, so that damage may rise dramatically if you get several crits during that round.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Handaxes.

GreatPigeon wrote:

handaxes

As a reformed handaxe-fanatic myself and for the sake of correctness as this is an optimization thread, I have to say that handaxes offer an inferior damage output than either shortswords or kukris.

Shortsword v. Handaxe

Shortsword v. Kukri

As their premier item all comes in the same variety (sureforged: +5 AB, +1d10 bludgeoning damage), one can say that kukri > shortsword > handaxe when it comes to picking a weapon type for your ranger; ignoring the feat requirement of kukri of course.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Epic dodge;
30 Tumble, Hide, Ms and 25+ DEX

Dev.crit;
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Epic Weapon Focus, Overwhelming Critical.

Epic dodge is 1 feat (Including Epic dodge)
Devastating Critical is 8 feats (Including Dev. itself)

You may have forgotten that Epic Dodge also requires Defensive Roll and Improved Evasion which makes it 3 feats, not 1, and there is no Hide or Move Silently requirement. And to get those feats requires a more exacting class allocation than Dev Crit requires.

Devastating critical does not require weapon focus, for accuracy's sake.

O'Raghailligh wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

Epic dodge;
30 Tumble, Hide, Ms and 25+ DEX

Dev.crit;
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Epic Weapon Focus, Overwhelming Critical.

Epic dodge is 1 feat (Including Epic dodge)
Devastating Critical is 8 feats (Including Dev. itself)

You may have forgotten that Epic Dodge also requires Defensive Roll and Improved Evasion which makes it 3 feats, not 1, and there is no Hide or Move Silently requirement. And to get those feats requires a more exacting class allocation than Dev Crit requires.

Edited accordingly! <3

Very_Svensk wrote:

sYuzan wrote:

Ranger 25/Fighter 4/Rogue 1

Elf-Fire Genasi (I know, most odd, but don't throw rocks at me just yet, since it's just the build-phase.)

STR 10 STR 14
DEX 18 -> 26
CON 12
WIS 14
INT 16 INT 14
CHA 6

Feats (7 Pre-Epic, 9 Epic [4+2Epic Ranger, +3 Fighter])

Pre-epic:
#1Weapon Finesse
#2Weapon Focus
#3Improved Critical
#4 Toughness (Blind fight)
#5Knockdown
#6Improved Knockdown
#7 Great Fortitude (Dodge!)
---
Epic:
#1Bane of Enemies
#2Epic Weapon Focus
#3Epic Prowess
#4Great Dexterity
#5Epic Fortitude (Good Choice!)
#6Epic Skill Focus: Spot
#7Armor Skin
#8Weapon Specialization
#9Epic Weapon Specialization

What do you think I should improve? Not sure about weapons yet, was thinking maybe handaxes.

You probably need more STR - Perhaps 14.
And i added blind fight instead of Toughness (Only gives +30HP).

Actually - Either go Dodge (+1AC) instead of Fortitude

If I drop Epic Prowess for Great Dexterity II, I can make this work with starting stats of

STR 12
DEX 17 -> 26
CON 12
WIS 13
INT 14
CHA 6

As I'm returning to Amia. I'll need a new build. I still had one lying around, but I'm not sure if it's as good as it could be or if matters having changed in the time I've been gone. I've looked it up to the best of my abilities and I've come up with the following build. My goal was a high preform role character with lots of aura's. Basicly a nice support/rp build. Would it be wise to try and scram black guard in it for one more aura?

Human Tiefling: Bard/Knight Commander

(Always adding Cha)
01, bard artist, cursesong
02, bard
03, bard skillfocus:disaplin
04, bard
05, bard
06, bard toughness
07, bard
08, nk
09, bard skillfocus:preform
10, nk
11, nk
12, bard extramusic
13, nk
14, nk
15, bard lingeringsong
16, bard
17, bard
18, bard extendspell
19, bard
20, bard
21, bard epicskillfocus;preform
22, bard
23, bard
24, bard maximise spell
25, bard
26, bard
27, bard lastinginspiration
28, bard greatercha1
29, bard
30, ---

Lord-Hadeis wrote:

Would it be wise to try and scram black guard in it for one more aura?

No. There's no point unless you make them primarily BG to lose 3 Bard levels.

The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Who is online