AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

serbiris wrote:

absolute wrong topic for this thing (the thread is cluttered enough as it is guys, honestly) but since someone is bound to take it seriously and respond here it might as well be me.

person 1: "I would like to make a Paladin of Cyric, what would be a good setup?"
person 2: "Not making a Paladin of Cyric would be a good start"
you: "This is not the place to make such statements, person 2."

serbiris wrote:

Firstly, followers and "devout" of Ao are not only an established part of FR, they're an established background presence (if only in existence) on Amia. Faithless is obviously an equally legitimate position or else there wouldn't be rules for how they work in the friggin' FRCS. Following Ao and being Faithless are not remotely equivalent by the way, which again leads me to point out that tangential soapboxing is tangential.

Provide some evidence to back up your claims, otherwise you are "just parroting other ignorant opinions on the topic".

pre 1358 dr: no mortal knows about Ao
1358 dr: all the gods fall from the heavens (except Helm) and walk around in mortal form
a few mortals hear some guy named Ao is responsible
a smaller group of those mortals make a cult around it
after the gods' war, the few people that knew about Ao start doubting he was a thing and forget it
cult dies off
current time: 1372 dr + amia years

I also said take it to another thread because this is stupid clutter but well.

Quote:

Since the gauntlet was thrown down when you decided to label my standpoint on an ambiguous issue trolling, only to deliver what is the very same thing: an opinion, albeit one that is less severe, I'd have to say that a Ao-worshiping character (yes, that's worshiping, not aware of or vaguely informed about) is only about as damaging as the fifty or so air-genasi assassins.

The difference is that I'm not "lawl u ruin RP go other server" while, again, presenting factual inaccuracies and soapboxing on an unrelated issue (Faithless in the Forgotten Realms is not equivalent to Ao-worship). You'll note that facts of the setting were presented in my post and not just "less severe opinions".

Requests are not just about rarity, it's about impact on the setting. A Deep Imaskari PC or a noble or an Ur-Priest, for existing, yields certain implications that are not present with a Minister of Ao. If rarity was the main point then every planetouched would require a request.
I don't think I've ever actually seen an air genasi assassin around, much less 50. I mean, I play a rogue. And yeah, you wonder why I assume every post you make is trolling? Because you pull things like that.

Quote:

Provide some evidence to back up your claims, otherwise you are "just parroting other ignorant opinions on the topic".

Rings of Ao. Also your post doesn't actually rule out what I wrote. Cults dying out doesn't mean "no ministers". "Largely forgotten" does not mean "forgotten" especially when information tends to explode in the medium and that's kind of an inescapable fact.

Quote:

person 1: "I would like to make a Paladin of Cyric, what would be a good setup?"
person 2: "Not making a Paladin of Cyric would be a good start"
you: "This is not the place to make such statements, person 2."

Not an apt comparison because person 2 isn't full of crap and in both cases although neither case actually bothered to explain why person 1 is ridiculous to any reasonable degree. I have nothing against reasonable explanations about lore appropriateness. They have to actually be correct though and not on some unrelated topic.

Keep it clean fellas. *SNARL!*

That said, for monk builds, you have a few options:

16 Monk is required for the 1d20 unarmed damage. 20 monk gives perfect self and the glowy eyes.

You could splash 6 SD, opens up epic dodge and hide in plain sight.

Rogue splash allows adding some sneak attack damage, which does help the fist damage, also opens up more skills. If you get 10 rogue levels, this also opens up epic dodge and the sneak attack damage gets pretty hefty.

If you get 4 levels of a full BAB class like fighter pre-epic, you can get an additional attack. 6+ Fighter opens up the ability to take epic weapon specialization, which further improves fist damage.

You could also go 30 Monk, and go for an SR build. Bit lowish damage and AB but it can get you around. Biggest allure is the unreduceable SR which can pretty much make you immune to NPC spells and highly resistant to enemy mages. Also makes you really fast! Don't bother with an SR monk unless you go pure or nearly pure monk though, you just won't get it high enough.

Feats:
Pre-epic(7, 8 if Human): Finesse, Focus unarmed, IMPR Crit Unarmed, Blind Fight, Several Free
Epic(4+2M): Armor Skin, Epic Weapon Focus Unarmed, Improved SR 4, OR Epic weapon Focus Unarmed, Improved SR 5

Do you have a general direction for how your monk will go?

Last edited by Theander on Mon, Aug 19 2013, 7:45 AM, edited 1 time in total.

*Cough* Before I reply to anything else:

Monotheism: THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD AT ALL EVER!
Monolatrism:WE ONLY WORSHIP ONE GOD AND WE ARE HIS PEOPLE! However there are other gods.

Early Judaism was Monolatric. Later Judaism was not.

Before accusing me of made up words, please do your research.

Edit: My apologies for using the word Monolytic instead of Monolatric, I can see how that could cause confusion. Nevertheless, please do your own research and tell me I've made a typo rather than blatantly accuse me of making stuff up.

Actually, the only thing I need to reply to is to considering the build suggestion and clarifying that I'm a historian and theologian by day.

So what about 6 fighter, 10 rogue, 6 monk... fill the rest with either monk or rogue or a combination thereof?

I've narrowed it down to these proposals.

(lose rogue levels for any LA)

12 monk, 6 fighter, 12 Rogue
Bonus: SR 22

7 monk, 6 fighter, 17 Rogue
Bonus, self healing and 9d6 Sneak Attack

8 monk, 6 fighter, 16 Rogue
Bonus, self healing, one AB higher than the previous pre-epic, 8d6 SA.

Theander wrote:

Before accusing me of made up words, please do your research.

It would be silly to, because I don't want to look like a goof as much as the next guy, but googling something is as far as I'll go for most things and such yielded nothing. I can only assume you don't mean monolithic because that would refer to different quality of a religion rather than the peculiarities of its faith.

Theander wrote:

7 monk, 6 fighter, 17 Rogue
Bonus, self healing and 9d6 Sneak Attack

Would be the strongest build among those you detailed.

SR 22 and the +1 AB simply not worth the loss of SA then? Fair cop.

Your thoughts on whether Spell Resistance would fit such a character concept (without being more of an aberration from the pantheon worshiping norm)? And whether it fits it more or less than high levels of rogue/sneak attack?

You don't have enough spell resistance from diamond soul for folks to notice on an IC or mechanical basis, so it simply isn't worth the investment in rogue levels. Most folks will have access to gear with 32 SR as an item property by the time they're done gear setting, so even if 22 was enough to block anything it'd be obsolete.

Working on Rogue/Monk builds. 2 Ideas so far:

1) Rogue 17/ Monk 7/ Fighter 6

Str 14
Dex 17 -> 26
Con 10
Wis 13
Int 12
Cha 8

Benefits: 6 APR, +6 Dmg, +9d6 Sneak

2) Rogue 16/ Monk 9/ Master Scout 5

Str 14
Dex 16 -> 26
Con 12
Wis 14
Int 12
Cha 8

Benefits: 2 extra Epic Feats, 5 APR, +8d6 Sneak, MS feats: Dash (+10% speed), Nature Sense, Trackless Step, Freedom, Battle Fort, Crafting items

So that leads me to ask about the Master Scout feats.
1) Crafting feat: I've read several posts about how it's really expensive and disappointing. Can anyone elaborate on its usefulness?
2) Dash feat (+10% speed in wilderness areas): does that stack with Monk Speed and Haste?
3) Battle Fortitude feat: can that be toggled on and off until it reaches the 1 turn/lvl max, or is it just toggled on and runs until it runs out?

EarthDreamer wrote:

Working on Rogue/Monk builds. 2 Ideas so far:

1) Rogue 17/ Monk 7/ Fighter 6

Str 14
Dex 17 -> 26
Con 10
Wis 13
Int 12
Cha 8

Benefits: 6 APR, +6 Dmg, +9d6 Sneak

2) Rogue 16/ Monk 9/ Master Scout 5

Str 14
Dex 16 -> 26
Con 12
Wis 14
Int 12
Cha 8

Benefits: 2 extra Epic Feats, 5 APR, +8d6 Sneak, MS feats: Dash (+10% speed), Nature Sense, Trackless Step, Freedom, Battle Fort, Crafting items

So that leads me to ask about the Master Scout feats.
1) Crafting feat: I've read several posts about how it's really expensive and disappointing. Can anyone elaborate on its usefulness?
2) Dash feat (+10% speed in wilderness areas): does that stack with Monk Speed and Haste?
3) Battle Fortitude feat: can that be toggled on and off until it reaches the 1 turn/lvl max, or is it just toggled on and runs until it runs out?

First is better. More attacks, more ab, more damage.

Theander wrote:

Your thoughts on whether Spell Resistance would fit such a character concept (without being more of an aberration from the pantheon worshiping norm)? And whether it fits it more or less than high levels of rogue/sneak attack?

Monks are commonly used as anti-mages, so the concept is fine; however, your SR isn't going to matter to most casters. If you want it to actually accomplish anything you will need to get 25+ monk and some improved spell resistance feats.
this is the formula for spell resistance: [d20 + caster level + spell penetration vs. SR]

EarthDreamer wrote:

So that leads me to ask about the Master Scout feats.
1) Crafting feat: I've read several posts about how it's really expensive and disappointing. Can anyone elaborate on its usefulness?
2) Dash feat (+10% speed in wilderness areas): does that stack with Monk Speed and Haste?
3) Battle Fortitude feat: can that be toggled on and off until it reaches the 1 turn/lvl max, or is it just toggled on and runs until it runs out?

The MS crafting was changed, so it's not as expensive as it was. I've found it worthwhile and affordable, of course YMMV.
Monk speed stacks with haste, but not with BARB speed (so says the nwn wiki), so I would guess not with dash either.
Battle fortitude just turns on and goes until it runs out.

But the first would probably be a better build. I might try to work it out so it was R16/M9/W5 myself though.

Naivatkal wrote:

Also: Bini if you have nothing useful to post, post nothing. Of course, then you'll never post again so... win/win scenario.

Whatever problem you have with Bini, you need to either confront and address it with him/her, or get over it and stfu.

PM's are probably more appropriate for the squabbles.

About the Master Scout:
- Dash does stack with Barbarian Movement Speed, giving you 20% bonus in wilderness areas, 10% bonus everywhere else. Neither of these stack with Haste, so you will be capped by a haste potion as usual. Still, it's really handy!
- Crafting is much more affordable. Some particular bombs seem obscure, but when you find the right situations for them, they become really nifty little tools. The potions are fantastic, the weapon essences are a handy thing to have if you don't have UMD/scrolls of FW, or need to overcome enemies resistant to fire. In most cases, Flame Weapon scrolls are a better option due to their duration.

I'm gonna prod this again, because I've since leveled, taken knockdown, and somewhat regret it so far because a lot of shapes GET knockdown for free. I guess on the upside, I don't have to always reset it on my hotbar when I shift shapes.
Are there any must-have feats for shifters? I'm SPECIFICALLY interested mostly in the spell pen line: are shifter shape spells useless against SR anyway (as in, they get a lot caster level for overcoming SR, so that spell pen won't help anyway?). I've taken knockdown and another filler feat since I last asked, and I only have a couple pre-epic feats left now. I'd hate to miss out on something kind of necessary for success.

Here is what I would personally consider must-haves on a shifter:
Blind Fight - Really a must-have on any character who isn't purely casting.
KD - At least KD, IKD is even better. Some people will disagree with this, but it is a fantastic disabling ability. Some of your shapes will already have this, but it becomes valuable when you find new ways to use it. For example, a Vampire or Spectre spamming IKD is pretty nasty.
Expertise - If you want some bonus AC, you can get it here. This is great when you use it at the right times. It's usefulness has recently been decreased, as you can no longer use abilities whilst in this mode. However, the bonus 5 AC can be very helpful when you're filling a tank role in a party.

Shifters will generally turn out awesome provided that you take 19 Shifter levels. The real trick to doing a shifter right comes into how you gear it, and how you use the shapes in various situations.

Okay thanks. I already have blindfight and regular knockdown. Maybe I'll grab IKD and possibly expertise.
By using abilities, do you mean the radial menu spells or abilities (like manticore spikes, etc?) and not necessarily feats (like a kobold's hips?).

And I assume the spell penetration works how I sort of figured it did, and you have a very bad spell penetration capability anyway, making it pointless?

Hullo der, you nerdlings. I have a craving to be pulled back into the world of Amia, and I have a special kind of love for the mechanism of Amia as I used to be one of the build chimps around here. It's so unique, the way that it gives liberties to the players to create whatever they can in good taste, abiding by only a few strict but very clear cut principles.

I'll be short and pithy: Is there anything that might jeopardise the prospect of Bard6/Shifter19/Druid5? Also, I've understood that EDR Shifter is a viable option, but is that limited to being focused on a single shape that can capitalise on the extra DR, or is it worth it as a universal bonus to several shapes also? Or are the spells powerful enough, so that if I'm not really too focused on any one shape, it would just benefit more to up WIS and consequently the spell DC?

Got something that could be fun for you guys, here.

Going to rebuild Ranth, my adorable little Pixie Shifter/SD. Primarily because his current build is best described as "Whatever I threw together all those years ago".

As I understand it, as an old Pixie character, he's covered by the Grandfather ruling, and so will use the original Pixie racial traits (Shown below for reference, as they are no longer on the subrace page (Though they're still around on the wiki, yay~)).

Abilities: STR –4, DEX +8, CON -4, INT +1, CHA +2

Appearance: Pixie
Skills: Hide +8, Taunt +4
Movement Speed: +20%
Feat: Low-light Vision
Racial type changes to Fey
Does not receive any halfling-related feats or skills

In terms of what I currently have, I'm quite possibly the lowest Wis shifter on the server. Aims are to bump up that Wis a bit to make shifted abilities less wet-noodle-y, keep or increase dex, and basically add whatever you guys think would be cool. For reference, current combat style is dagger and small shield when not shifted. Current abilities are below, as well as other items of note.

Level: 21
Classes: 5 Druid (Ignored for non-druid shifter RP)/10 Shifter/6 SD
Abilities:
Str: 8
Dex: 28
Con: 6
Int: 15
Wis: 16
Cha: 12
Feats: Alertness, Ambidex, Dodge, Great Dexterity I, Mobility, Toughness, TWF, Weapon Finesse
Skills: Primarily Hide, MS, Tumble, and Listen, with a few points in other skills.

Quite willing to drop Ambidex and TWF; I had (and have) something of a bad habit where I put them on basically every character, regardless of whether I end up using two weapons.

So, your recommendations?

Do you have a favoured form at all?

Not really; Ranth swaps between them pretty freely, though Dire Tiger is generally my go-to for melee combat, and mindflayer or Lizardman if I'm supporting. Other than that, Thousand Faces forms are what he spends the most time in, typically hawk or rave, but I'm fairly sure those don't affect any stats, so...

Gobbledygook wrote:

About the Master Scout:
- Dash does stack with Barbarian Movement Speed, giving you 20% bonus in wilderness areas, 10% bonus everywhere else. Neither of these stack with Haste, so you will be capped by a haste potion as usual. Still, it's really handy!
- Crafting is much more affordable. Some particular bombs seem obscure, but when you find the right situations for them, they become really nifty little tools. The potions are fantastic, the weapon essences are a handy thing to have if you don't have UMD/scrolls of FW, or need to overcome enemies resistant to fire. In most cases, Flame Weapon scrolls are a better option due to their duration.

Thanks for the reply, but I'm wondering about Master Scout's "Dash" stacking with Monk Speed, not Barbarian Movement Speed.

Am curious to build a character that can ID every item he runs into through the lore skill, but have little idea of what score to aim for. ATM I'm guessing about 35 for a value of 1,000,000, but am hoping for a bit of insight as to what figure I might need. The highest value un-ID'd item I've found so far is the Duellist's Parrying Dagger to date for testing.

Of course if some DM would like to say what the highest value un-ID'd item's value is that's cool too.

Bard of any sort.

[quote="Very_Svensk"]Ive always wanted to suggest this build

6 monk (For IKD) and 6 Fighter, for Extra attack and Epic weapon specialization. Rest rogue!
[quote]

I've built this character forever to the point of perfection. You're better off dropping a fighter level and taking EWS at fighter 5 and and ending rogue on an odd level. Use rogue bonus feats to pick up e-dodge and skill mastery to lay epic traps mid-combat! Epic feats are armor skin, EWF EP, EWS.

If you don't mind being evil, ass 19/fight 8/monk 3 is more fun. Assassin toys!

Hello there. Not only am I new here, but I'm not really that knowledgeable on building to maximize character's potential in combat.
I currently play a level 7 druid, and haven't really went down the path towards Shifter...at least I don't think. I am curious does most druids mainly go the Shifter route? I always did in the past. Especially on PRC servers as the PnP shifter was really great for being able to shift into various NPCs and humanoids to sneak away from people following me via RP.
I was hoping to with coming here to take a different route with my druid character then I ever have. In the past I pretty much was always Elven as they seemed more in touch with nature, plus their immunity to sleep and weapon proficiencies was always best IMO.
Here on Amia I went with a human druid, and I wanted to explore the more fragility short lifespan of a druidic human character, and also had hopes of just going a pure druid route. Maybe a mix of ranger or whatever this scout class you guys have in here for potential RP possibilities.
So again just curious if I am seriously gimping myself here because I have already noticed you guys do some amazing things with your dungeons and quests, and perhaps later on in high levels no one will want to group with me as I'm the useless druid who cant fill his role against some boss or something.

I appreciate the time anyone spends to answer these questions, and also extend my thanks.

Terent wrote:

and perhaps later on in high levels no one will want to group with me as I'm the useless druid who cant fill his role against some boss or something.

If you aim for EMD with pure Druid and become support-based, people'll be clawing for your help end-game.

I can confirm this. Even at level 21 my druid is awesome. She's pure caster based, high WIS with EMD.

Ok, quick "I can't decide" question.

Pre-epic: 1 Sorc/9 Fight/10 RDD.

Post-epic(1): 1 Sorc/9 Fight/20 RDD: 32 Natural Str, Dev Crit, Armour skin, Epic Toughness, Great Str I, Epic Energy Resistance. Maximum Breath Weapon.

vs

Post-epic(2): 1 Sorc/10 Fight/19 RDD: 34 Natural Str, Dev Crit, armour skin, Epic Toughness, Great Str III.

I think 2 may be best (46 Str/+18 Modifier), but how big of a difference will +18 make compared to +17?

Basically 2 will have +1 AB/STR/Dev DC. Also taking an epic fighter level means you can snatch epic wep spec for damage too. Much better optionn than the breath weapon. If I were you I'd consider also a level of Soc at end for the spell craft dump if you can afford it, and slightly more spells to mess with.

Take a fighter in epic. EWS 'nuff said.

Right, so (at level 21-30)

Taking 10 DD gives me 4 Feats + 2 bonus.
Taking 1 Fighter, 9 DD gives me 5 Feats + 2 bonus
Taking 3 Fighter, 7 DD gives me 7 Feats + 1 bonus.

What's the best one to do for EWS+Dev Crit, I need 1 or 3 Great str too as well, keeping in mind they'll be 1 Sorc/9 Fight/10 RDD pre-epic.

For 2 DD bonus feats, I'll be picking Armour Skin and Epic Toughness, for 1 it'll just be AS.

Apologies again, but as I said I am kind of a newb at this. What does EMD stand for?

Terent wrote:

Apologies again, but as I said I am kind of a newb at this. What does EMD stand for?

Epic Mummy Dust

On that subject though, what's the differences between Sirrush EMD and Githzerai EMD?

Terent wrote:

Apologies again, but as I said I am kind of a newb at this. What does EMD stand for?

And no worries about RP issues, on Amia, when you take EMD you get an item that lets you summon a creature other than an undead. Amia is a very awesome server and welcome!

And as for sirrush/githzerai, I *think* sirrush is one of the tanky role EMD choices, but in the magical beast vein so it's palettable to nature-lovers. The gith and other outsiders seem to fill striker roles, doing damage.

MightNMagic wrote:

Terent wrote:

Apologies again, but as I said I am kind of a newb at this. What does EMD stand for?

And no worries about RP issues, on Amia, when you take EMD you get an item that lets you summon a creature other than an undead. Amia is a very awesome server and welcome!

Yarp! Also, here's a link to the EMD changes: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtop ... 3#p1121583

MightNMagic wrote:

And as for sirrush/githzerai, I *think* sirrush is one of the tanky role EMD choices, but in the magical beast vein so it's palettable to nature-lovers. The gith and other outsiders seem to fill striker roles, doing damage.

Which would you personally suggest for a support Druid?

Sirrush, hands down, being a magical beast. That's what I went with at least

Yeah, Sirrush is great.

No idea what any of those creatures are besides the air elemental, and that seems the most In-character Im guessing for a druid/nature kind of guy.

Well the important thing usually is what base template they are (ie magical beast or elemental or outsider; then good/neutral/evil on outsider).

Quote:

Sphinx wrote:
1. UMD- 10 for all scrolls. 25 to wear almost any magical gear you can find on the module. 30 for basically everything, but it's not really worth it.
2. Disable Trap- The DC to retrieve epic traps is 32, and there are items to boost this skill. You can basically live with one rank, but I usually take 3 + 2 (INT modifier, in most cases) because I like tidy numbers.

Is this true? According to this...the DC to disable an epic trap is 22? Or.... is this how many ranks you need to retrieve epic traps? That would make the DC to disable 42, which is more reasonable for difficulty.

Anyone know?

Thanks....

Yaster Galer wrote:

Which would you personally suggest for a support Druid?

Both air elemental and sirrush fit a druid well and are somewhat tanky by consensus. (I've tried neither.) If it were my choice, I'd bet on elemental. Immune to crit/sneak, mind immune, and great dex, should translate to impressive AC, I'd think for better survivability.

I've had Air Elemental before, and it's AB/DMG is pretty sad.. I was much happier with the Sirrush, but whatever fits your roleplay best.

So, I've been toying a long time with the idea of making an Epic Dodging Dual-Wielding Weaponmaster. Obviously the class-build would be Fighter 10/WM 7/Rogue 13, thinking Ftr 8/WM 7/Rogue 5 pre-epic. However it's a feat-drained build, even if I start with human, so help? Here's what I've though of so far, with human or air genasi as starting race:

8 + 5 Pre-epic / 4 + 1 Epic

Ambidexterity
Weapon Finesse
Two-Weapon Fighting
Expertise
Dodge

Mobility
Spring Attack
Whirlwing Attack
Weapon Focus
Knockdown

Improved Critical
Weapon Specialization
Blind-Fight
---
Epic Dodge
Armor Skin
Epic Weapon Spec
Epic Fortitude
Epic Weapon Focus
(Not necessarily in said order)

Now, I'm trying to think how to get ITWF in there somewhere, but how/where? Should I switch Blind-Fight for it? Knockdown will be needed in the long run, I think. Or should I switch some epic feat for ITWF? Seems like waste to me.
EDIT: Or just forget the 2nd offhand attack?

It works much better without dual wield, eh.. It's already tight on feats as it is, and losing blind-fight really isn't an option.. And dropping rogue below 13 pretty much ruins the point, as you'd lose Edodge..

I have a 13/10/7 without dual wield and enjoy it very much.

sYuzan wrote:

So, I've been toying a long time with the idea of making an Epic Dodging Dual-Wielding Weaponmaster. Obviously the class-build would be Fighter 10/WM 7/Rogue 13, thinking Ftr 8/WM 7/Rogue 5 pre-epic. However it's a feat-drained build, even if I start with human, so help? Here's what I've though of so far, with human or air genasi as starting race:

8 + 5 Pre-epic / 4 + 1 Epic

Ambidexterity
Weapon Finesse
Two-Weapon Fighting
Expertise
Dodge

Mobility
Spring Attack
Whirlwing Attack
Weapon Focus
Knockdown

Improved Critical
Weapon Specialization
Blind-Fight
---
Epic Dodge
Armor Skin
Epic Weapon Spec
Epic Fortitude
Epic Weapon Focus
(Not necessarily in said order)

Now, I'm trying to think how to get ITWF in there somewhere, but how/where? Should I switch Blind-Fight for it? Knockdown will be needed in the long run, I think. Or should I switch some epic feat for ITWF? Seems like waste to me.
EDIT: Or just forget the 2nd offhand attack?

Drop the 2 handed shit, it isn't that great without imp two weap and gives you 7/8 ac less than one handed + shield.

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