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Balkoth
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 Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 21:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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Actually, it's often NOT the number of dice * 1.5 but rather the final result * 1.5
For example, Magic Missile is 1d4 + 1 per missile. However (by default at least), Empowered Magic Missile is calculated as (1d4 + 1) * 1.5. Ditto for many other spells - which can actually lead to some spells being better as Empowered than Maximized.
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P Three
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Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 21:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Yaster Galer wrote: I've never played WM before, and I have a character in mind, can someone give me a Feat+Ability+Skill scores for a Dev-Critting Double Axe Half-Orc Please? No preference in builds, just something good! 18 Str to start. High Con. You need 4 in Intimidate. Everything else is up to you. _________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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P Three
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Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 21:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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I lied.
You also need 13 Dex and 13 Int, because you need Power Attack/Cleave/GCleave
_________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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Kamina
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Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 21:58 PM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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18 Str
13 Dex
14 Con
9 Wis
13 Int
6 Cha
That sound good?
_________________  "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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Balkoth
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Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 22:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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Edit: whoops, forgot Half-Orc.
Last edited by Balkoth on Wed, Sep 11 2013, 23:18 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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P Three
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Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 23:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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I'd go 14 int as well. Extra skillpoints are a blessing.
Drop your skillpoints into Discipline, save 30 for Tumble, of course, less the 8 you'll need for Intimidate, since it's cross-class.
Power Attack
Cleave
Great cleave
Weapon Focus (And the assorted proficiencies)
Weapon Spec
Improved Crit
Overwhelming Crit
Dodge
Mobility
Expertise
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Attack
All your lvl up stat points need to go into Str. You'll hit 25 at lvl 27, I think?
You'll want 12 Fighter 16 WM 2 Rogue,UNLESS you're planning to add RDD in.
_________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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Kamina
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Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 23:16 PM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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Due to Half-Orc racial, 13 to 14 Int is 2 points, Wis was just to get rid of the excess point.
RDD isn't IC inline with this character.
What feat will I be losing due to Exotic Weaponry?
_________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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P Three
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Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 23:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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You shouldn't have to lose a feat, as the ones I've given are -only- for WM and Dev Crit. You'll have room for others.
if you can't swing 14 int, then yeah, go 9 wis Just make sure you have 13 int, and 13 dex.
_________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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Ozelotl
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Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 23:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Location: Ohio, USA
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Is it worth giving up improved crit for improved two weapon fighting on a dex based build that mostly uses sneak attack for damage?
_________________
“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.”
-Albert Einstein
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P Three
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Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2013, 23:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Yes.
_________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 7:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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The more important question is: why can't you take both? What is your class layout? ITWF is rarely worth the investment on most builds, even sneakers.
_________________  "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Remal
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Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 7:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Location: Elsewhen
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Yaster Galer wrote: Due to Half-Orc racial, 13 to 14 Int is 2 points, Wis was just to get rid of the excess point.
RDD isn't IC inline with this character.
What feat will I be losing due to Exotic Weaponry? If we take into account 12/16/2 build and 10/10 preepic: You get two feats at 1st level (fighter and starting one) You get 5 additional feats from fighter (2, 4, 6, 8 and 10th level) You get 6 general feats (3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18) That's 13 feats. P Three's list has 11 must have preepic feats, and Blind Fight makes it 12. So you'll be able to squeeze Exotic prof. Barely. But your real problem is that you are dual-wielding, so without ambidex/twf feats you will have nasty penalties. Though I believe there's item in game with those feats (but I really wouldn't count on such).
_________________
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
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Kamina
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Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 10:15 AM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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Isn't the Dual-Wielding penalty only affecting the 2nd attack on a double-bladed weapon?
_________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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Remal
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Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 10:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Location: Elsewhen
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Yaster Galer wrote: Isn't the Dual-Wielding penalty only affecting the 2nd attack on a double-bladed weapon? Double weapons are treated as having light weapon in off-hand. So you are still stuck with -4/-8 penalties. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Double_axehttp://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Dual-wield
_________________
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
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Kamina
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Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 10:55 AM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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Ah I see.
Missing out ITWF isn't too bad right?
_________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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The1Kobra
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Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 11:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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If you're going for WM, Devcrit, and ITWF with a double axe,... yeah,... I don't think it's going to work out. I'd reccommend just going with a greataxe, a battleaxe, or skipping Devcrit. You'll be too feat tight otherwise.
_________________ I play: 
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Kamina
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Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 11:28 AM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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Greataxe doesn't deter too much for his concept, what feat would best be chosen where Exotic Weaponry would have been?
On the flipside, would the Gloves (thus eliminating the chance of an extra attack due to no ITWP and 2 Mythal slots) make Double-Axe half decent? IC-wise, he would be taught how to use it by a Half-Orc who uses Orcish traditions.
Managed to find a nice build! Thanks for the help!
_________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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Ozelotl
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Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2013, 20:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Location: Ohio, USA
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PaladinOfSune wrote: The more important question is: why can't you take both? What is your class layout? ITWF is rarely worth the investment on most builds, even sneakers. It's for a rogue/fighter/ms build. I was able to fit all the feats wanted except ITWF. Could go with 1 weapon like a rapier, or could not get IKD instead of not getting imp crit, but I figured IKD is important in order to get sneak attacks.EDIT: Scratch all that. This guy is now a slinger instead of a dual wielder, so there are extra feats.
_________________
“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.”
-Albert Einstein
Last edited by Ozelotl on Sat, Sep 14 2013, 2:08 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 23:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Hey, if I wanted to make a Dwarf spellsword, how many caster levels would I want to take? I feel like 21/23 is a good number, but it could be as high as 27 if I build it right.
Also is Wizard viable or would I have to go sorcerer?
Edit: This is a build for a friend. I'm to lazy to commit to an alt.
_________________  Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 23:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Normally 24/5/1 is good, or 25/4/1. Can do wiz/fighter/rogue or sorc, I prefer wiz myself. 24 net you immunity to dispelling, remember.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Remal
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Posted: Sat, Sep 14 2013, 13:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Location: Elsewhen
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Naivatkal wrote: Normally 24/5/1 is good, or 25/4/1. Can do wiz/fighter/rogue or sorc, I prefer wiz myself. 24 net you immunity to dispelling, remember. 24/5/1 works like a charm. Extend, Maximize, ESF: Abjuration and EMA are standard. EMD is also good. Lack of 0% ASF halfplate (unless it got re-added in the meanwhile) might pose problem if you wish to start with low dex though. Chain shirts are still available, and monk boots + maximized dex will get you to +4 dex if you start with 10.
_________________
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
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Tomato Sword
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Posted: Sat, Sep 14 2013, 13:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2011
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The boots aren't actually Monk boots anymore. So anyone can equip them. +5 AC, +3 DEX.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sat, Sep 14 2013, 15:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Alright, well what would I want stat wise? Here's what I'm thinking to start with, but any of you whom are better at this please feel free to correct me. But I've got this so far for a dwarf.
STR 14 (20)
DEX 10
CON 16
WIS 8
INT 18 (19)
CHA 6
This gives me a good CON score to start with and a 19 INT gives me all of the spell levels I need. Is my STR going to be exceptionally important or am I just stabbing at the dark?
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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666WaysToHell
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Posted: Sat, Sep 14 2013, 15:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Western Australia
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No Epic Summon? You'll need 20 Int. for that.
_________________
Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Sat, Sep 14 2013, 15:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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Remal wrote: Naivatkal wrote: Normally 24/5/1 is good, or 25/4/1. Can do wiz/fighter/rogue or sorc, I prefer wiz myself. 24 net you immunity to dispelling, remember. 24/5/1 works like a charm. Extend, Maximize, ESF: Abjuration and EMA are standard. EMD is also good. Lack of 0% ASF halfplate (unless it got re-added in the meanwhile) might pose problem if you wish to start with low dex though. Chain shirts are still available, and monk boots + maximized dex will get you to +4 dex if you start with 10. was the half plate removed? How saaad 
_________________
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sat, Sep 14 2013, 16:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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666WaysToHell wrote: No Epic Summon? You'll need 20 Int. for that. Ah, didn't know that. I'll have to adjust to fix that then. Maybe lower his con a couple of points to pump a little more into STR. _________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Dakotaen
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 11:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Location: Denmark
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I'm pretty bored during euro hours, so I'm looking to try out some stuff I haven't messed around with much before. At first, I kinda wanted to be a dick and do something with RDD and Dwarven Defender, but it's just too wrong and at the same time I can't make it work on paper.
So, what I'm thinking is, is it possible to make a useful build with Dwarven Defender and Knight Champion? Something real soaky and tanky that is still enough of a threat that I'd be able to attract the attention of bad guys.
Fingers crossed!
_________________
Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko
Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale
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Remal
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 13:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Location: Elsewhen
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Dakotaen wrote: I'm pretty bored during euro hours, so I'm looking to try out some stuff I haven't messed around with much before. At first, I kinda wanted to be a dick and do something with RDD and Dwarven Defender, but it's just too wrong and at the same time I can't make it work on paper.
So, what I'm thinking is, is it possible to make a useful build with Dwarven Defender and Knight Champion? Something real soaky and tanky that is still enough of a threat that I'd be able to attract the attention of bad guys.
Fingers crossed! You mean Knight Commander? That will be stat and skill nightmare. You need 13 dex for DwD (Dodge), at least 10-12 charisma for some of KC auras, and good Con if you are shooting for Epic Damage reduction. Not to mention some Strength if you wish to hit anything. And positive intelligence for some skills, since all classes have only 2 skill pts/level. You also need Skill Focus: Discipline, Toughness and Persuade 4 ranks, Taunt 4 ranks, Discipline 8 ranks and Lore 4 ranks. I guess 10 fighter/5 KC/ 15 DwD. Cross classing tumble shouldn't be big trouble, aince you actually want to tank, but lack of UMD might hurt. And you can't mix bard with DwD, and not sure if you'll have enough feats if you go rogue instead of fighter. I'll really leave it for better builders than me.
_________________
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Last edited by Remal on Sun, Sep 15 2013, 15:10 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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P Three
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 14:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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I have a Ranger/AA/Bard build. Going bare mininum bard (2), how many AA levels do I want? She's a dexer, obv.
_________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 15:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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P Three wrote: I have a Ranger/AA/Bard build. Going bare mininum bard (2), how many AA levels do I want? She's a dexer, obv. 18? That gives +9 arrows. And an extra feat
_________________
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2
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P Three
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 15:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Point,though I was also looking at BoE
_________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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Dakotaen
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 16:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Location: Denmark
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Why not go for 19 AA and net +10 shots? They're so yummy.
_________________
Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko
Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale
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P Three
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 16:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Because I was wondering about BoE, if it's even useful.
_________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 18:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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So I've got an interesting build worked out here and I wanted some opinions.
Fighter6/BG16/DC8
It's not bothering with epic specialization in epic level because the aim is to get all of what it does done and manage to squeeze in dev crit, but here's an idea.
Pre epic: Fighter6/BG10/DC4
Epic: Fighter6/BG16/DC8
And my epic feat spread here is as follows:
Great Strength I-III
Armor Skin
Epic Weapon Focus
Overwhelming Critical
Epic Fiend
Devastating Critical
Opinions? Am I missing out on anything important? I have pre-epic pretty well covered as well.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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666WaysToHell
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 18:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Western Australia
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I'm giving in to the trend of playing midgets Hin.
Strongheart Fighter/WM/Rogue
Abilities:
Str: 18 (26)
Dex: 13
Con: 14
Wis: 9
Int: 14
Cha: 8
01: Fighter (1): Dodge, Mobility
02: Fighter (2): Weapon Focus: Shortsword
03: Fighter (3): Expertise
04: Fighter (4): Weapon Specialization: Shortsword
06: Fighter (6): Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack
07: Weapon Master (1): Weapon of Choice: Shortsword
09: Weapon Master (3): Knockdown
12: Weapon Master (6): Improved Critical: Shortsword
15: Fighter (8): Power Attack, Improved Knockdown
17: Fighter (10): Blind Fight
18: Fighter (11): Cleave
19: Fighter (12): Great Cleave
21: Fighter (14): Great Strength I, Epic Weapon Focus: Shortsword
23: Fighter (16): Overwhelming Critical: Shortsword
24: Fighter (17): Armor Skin
25: Fighter (18): Devastating Critical: Shortsword
27: Rogue (1): Epic Prowess
28: Fighter (20): Epic Weapon Specialization: Shortsword
I've mainly borrowed this layout from another +2 ECL build from earlier in this thread. Shortsword is just listed for flavor, i'm open to suggestions. No 2-handed weapons!
Thoughts?
_________________
Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.
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Kamina
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 19:05 PM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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Most religious Hin pay patronage to their Deity's weapon.
Yondalla and Arvoreen use Shortswords.
Urogalan uses a Light Flail
Sheela is unarmed/sickle
Cyrrollalee is a Hin Quarterstaff (Club)
And Brandobaris is a Dagger.
Though build-wise, a Light Hammer'd work too, but I'd stick with a Shortsword.
_________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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The1Kobra
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 19:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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bobofwestoregonusa wrote: So I've got an interesting build worked out here and I wanted some opinions.
Fighter6/BG16/DC8
It's not bothering with epic specialization in epic level because the aim is to get all of what it does done and manage to squeeze in dev crit, but here's an idea.
Pre epic: Fighter6/BG10/DC4
Epic: Fighter6/BG16/DC8
And my epic feat spread here is as follows:
Great Strength I-III
Armor Skin
Epic Weapon Focus
Overwhelming Critical
Epic Fiend
Devastating Critical
Opinions? Am I missing out on anything important? I have pre-epic pretty well covered as well. What's your starting STR? The usual spread for paladins/BGs puts in either a 17 or 18 base STR, which needs only 1 or 2 great strengths. Also, no tumble dump will hurt the AC, but I suppose divine shield can help compensate. Missing UMD hurts too though. One thing though, you can change it to: Pre epic: Fighter7/BG10/DC3 Epic: Fighter8/BG16/DC6 This will get you an additional epic feat for the cost of a pre-epic feat. You could pick up epic prowess or EWS with this. _________________ I play:
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Aeqvinox
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Posted: Sun, Sep 15 2013, 21:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Underdark
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666WaysToHell wrote: Strongheart Fighter/WM/Rogue
Thoughts? Boring. /wrists bobofwestoregonusa wrote: Fighter6/BG16/DC8 Go Great Smiting  Other than that, it's worth trying to squeeze in Epic Skill Focus: Spot i might say, perhaps by dropping two Great STR feats and taking EProwess and said ESkF:Spot. And i'd still get that Epic Weapon Spec anyway, no matter what. It's something that without which you suffer more disadvantages, than you have benefits, considering what your build is aiming to do. Really, 1 DC on Dev Crit is hardly worth it, when you can simply have a much more solid build.
_________________
Mark it zero!
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 5:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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bobofwestoregonusa wrote: So I've got an interesting build worked out here and I wanted some opinions.
Fighter6/BG16/DC8
It's not bothering with epic specialization in epic level because the aim is to get all of what it does done and manage to squeeze in dev crit, but here's an idea.
Pre epic: Fighter6/BG10/DC4
Epic: Fighter6/BG16/DC8
And my epic feat spread here is as follows:
Great Strength I-III
Armor Skin
Epic Weapon Focus
Overwhelming Critical
Epic Fiend
Devastating Critical
Opinions? Am I missing out on anything important? I have pre-epic pretty well covered as well. Don't forget you can use one of your DC bonus feats to get Epic Weap Spec too. Probably worth losing a Great Str for it. If that means you'll end up on an odd Str, then I'd also drop one more Great Str for Epic Prowess.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 6:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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So here's my responses to everyones feedback. I'm not going out of my way to be unresponsive to ideas, but since I didn't just post the build level by level here then you don't know what I plan on doing level by level. But if you do want to see what I made level by level I'd be happy to PM any of you curious folks. I pretty much have all of this figured out, I'm sort of just crunching now. O'Raghailligh wrote: Don't forget you can use one of your DC bonus feats to get Epic Weap Spec too.
Probably worth losing a Great Str for it. If that means you'll end up on an odd Str, then I'd also drop one more Great Str for Epic Prowess. Dropping 2 great STR feats leaves me below the minimum for Dev Crit, and I hate uneven numbers. Call it OCD if you will. The1Kobra wrote: What's your starting STR? The usual spread for paladins/BGs puts in either a 17 or 18 base STR, which needs only 1 or 2 great strengths. Also, no tumble dump will hurt the AC, but I suppose divine shield can help compensate. Missing UMD hurts too though.
One thing though, you can change it to:
Pre epic: Fighter7/BG10/DC3
Epic: Fighter8/BG16/DC6
This will get you an additional epic feat for the cost of a pre-epic feat. You could pick up epic prowess or EWS with this. Starting STR is 16, and ends at 26. Changing my levels takes away from my DC benefits like increased saves and a bonus feat, and EWS/Epic Prowess aren't really worth taking since taking those two extra feats means I lose my minimum STR score needed to take Dev Crit. More STR and AoD means I get a higher DC as well for my Dev Crit. I can also take UMD and Tumble cross class. Granted it's slightly less AC, but the trade off is that I hit way, way, way, way harder for it and have much more solid saves. This build is planned with the idea that it will Evasion from an artificial source like a ring as well. Oh, and before I forget, I cannot afford to mess with my pre-epic spread because it messes with my saves and feats ever so slightly, and the feats I take pre-epic feel kind of perfect. I get everything I need out of it going Fighter6/DC4/BG10 Aeqvinox wrote: Go Great Smiting The amount of CHA needed to invest in that would make the build worthless, this would have to be a completely different character to bother with it, since it invests so heavily in a high strength score. Aeqvinox wrote: Other than that, it's worth trying to squeeze in Epic Skill Focus: Spot If the amount of skill needed in Spot to catch the average sneak wasn't in the 80+ range (some people I know get to 100+) I'd probably try this. This build isn't to awesome on Wisdom, it's like a 12 I think, maybe a 10 even. Aeqvinox wrote: And i'd still get that Epic Weapon Spec anyway, no matter what. It's something that without which you suffer more disadvantages, than you have benefits, considering what your build is aiming to do. Really, 1 DC on Dev Crit is hardly worth it, when you can simply have a much more solid build. The amount of damage done with Purge Infadel and Divine Might really invalidate any need for EWS in my mind. _________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 6:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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Well it sounds like you have the build completely under control then. You've put a lot of thought and planning into it. Go for gold! Without a full layout of your stats etc it makes it a little bit harder to offer useful advice.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 6:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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I broke down and pulled out the build; I'm a weak willed simpleton.
So here's how the build looks, starting with my stats, assume that STR and CHA will be buffed all the way to +12 any time I do anything for purposes of saving throws and AB/Damage Calculation since I know how I'll be gearing and buffing it.
STR 16 (26 -38 in gear)
Dex 10
Con 10
Wis 12
Int 14
Cha 14 - 26 in gear
Pre-Epic
1-Fighter 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Power Attack, Hide +1
2-Fighter 2: Cleave
3-Fighter 3: Blind Fight Hide +1
4-Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization: Bastard Sword STR +1 (17)
5-Fighter 5: Hide +1
6-Fighter 6: Knockdown, Great Cleave
7-Fighter 7: Hide +1
8-Blackguard 1: STR +1 (18)
9-Divine Champion 1: Improved Critical, Improved Knockdown
10-Divine Champion 2:
11-Divine Champion 3:
12-Blackguard 2: Divine Shield STR +1 (19)
13-Blackguard 3:
14-Blackguard 4:
15-Blackguard 5: Extra Turning
16-Blackguard 6: STR +1 (20)
17-Blackguard 7:
18-Blackguard 8: Divine Might
19-Blackguard 9:
20-Blackguard 10: STR +1 (21)
Epic:
21-Blackguard 11: Great Str I (STR 22)
22-Blackguard 12:
23-Blackguard 13: Armor Skin
24-Divine Champion 4: STR +1 (23), Great STR 2 (24), Epic Weapon Focus
25-Divine Champion 5:
26-Blackguard 14:
27-Blackguard 15: Overwhelming Crit
28-Blackguard 16: Epic Fiend, +1 STR (25)
29-Divine Champion 6: Devestating Critical
30-Fighter 8: EWS, Great STR 3 (26)
I'm open to changing the order of certain classes, but unless it's a significant benefit to the build itself and not just things like a spot dump or EWS at the cost of some STR I don't know how interested I am in losing most of my feats. And I must admit I rather enjoy the idea of having Improved Knockdown with an AB of +47. Skill points are a little weird because there's some RP stuff it needs to have that it may lack room for otherwise.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
Last edited by bobofwestoregonusa on Mon, Sep 16 2013, 12:37 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 6:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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Possibly drop your Dex to 8 and boost Wis to 14 so you can get all the Blackguard goodies.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 6:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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I've considered that, but I'm hesitant to have a dex that low. It just bugs me for some reason, though the whole bag of tricks is really nice if a tiny bit unnecessary. With 12 I get Darkness, Corrupt Weapon, and AoD. I don't have much use for Demon Skin or Veil of Shadows since they don't last to long and Demon Skin has very little to offer in terms of AC. It's a cool ability, but not worth taking with gear. Even Unholy Sword never had much use for me since it's only a DC 14 dispel and anything that could be dispelled by it by the time you got the ability is way under your level. Still, it's a very /cool/ power.
Honestly though, I'd be reaaaaaaaaally tempted just to get that 14 WIS for RP purposes, and a few other factors that I have behind the scenes. This is sort of intended as a rebuild.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 7:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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Abyssal might will give you back your 2 Dex, plus make it easier to max your Str. With 16 BG levels that will last for 16 minutes. Same with Demon Flesh, you'll get +4 ac for 16 minutes, freeing up your necklace for whatever you want. Since you are going Divine Might/Shield, you'll probably be resting a lot, and 16 minutes is perfect duration for that.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 7:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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O'Raghailligh wrote: Abyssal might will give you back your 2 Dex, plus make it easier to max your Str. With 16 BG levels that will last for 16 minutes. Same with Demon Flesh, you'll get +4 ac for 16 minutes, freeing up your necklace for whatever you want. Since you are going Divine Might/Shield, you'll probably be resting a lot, and 16 minutes is perfect duration for that. Actually there's a lot less resting than one might think with all the haste chugging I do, and the build this one is intending to build out of is already geared to a point where it can max out those stats without the extra help and has +5 natural armor. Though I'll admit that Divine Might/Purge Infadel might have me resting more often. _________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Casvenx
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 10:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2013
Location: Badlands of 'Murika
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bobofwestoregonusa wrote: 6-Fighter 6: Knockdown
7-Blackguard 1: Maybe I'm missing something, and I'm only pointing this out as you said the pre-epic build is fairly well set, but don't you need fighter 7 to get the hide 5 required for blackguard? And aren't you missing a second feat on fighter 6? _________________ 
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 12:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Casvenx wrote: bobofwestoregonusa wrote: 6-Fighter 6: Knockdown
7-Blackguard 1: Maybe I'm missing something, and I'm only pointing this out as you said the pre-epic build is fairly well set, but don't you need fighter 7 to get the hide 5 required for blackguard? And aren't you missing a second feat on fighter 6? Okay, that really does change the way I've got to arrange everything a bit, needless to say my ears are a bit red, but I could have sworn that was only 4 ranks before. The level 6 feat was probably something I skipped when I got excited. I'll have to work on/edit that a bit. Thank you for bringing this to my attention because it would have been a bit rough to see the build I was so proud of be impossible. Edit: So after some fixing, my build comes to the proper Fighter8/BG16/DC6. Thank you for correcting my wrong. And like Kobra suggested, I had to go Fighter7/BG10/DC3 pre epic and ended up having an extra feat. So I ended up taking EWS since I generally get a little more damage output out of it for what I lose in purge infidel from the 2 DC levels I had to remove from the build. I'll be editing the post with the original build here. And again, thank you for pointing that out, I kept thinking of WM where you need 4 ranks of intimidate. I'd been playing with a WM/BG build for a while as well. _________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Aeqvinox
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 14:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Underdark
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bobofwestoregonusa wrote: STR 16 (26 -38 in gear)
Dex 10
Con 10
Wis 12
Int 14
Cha 14 - 26 in gear
Pre-Epic
1-Fighter 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Power Attack, Hide +2
2-Fighter 2: Cleave
3-Fighter 3: Blind Fight Hide +1
4-Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization: Bastard Sword STR +1 (17)
5-Fighter 5: Hide +1
6-Fighter 6: Knockdown, Great Cleave
7-Fighter 7: Hide +1
8-Blackguard 1: STR +1 (18)
9-Divine Champion 1: Improved Critical
10-Divine Champion 2: Improved Knockdown
11-Blackguard 2:
12-Blackguard 3: Divine Shield STR +1 (19) --> Turn Undead is gained at 3'rd BG level
13-Divine Champion 3:
14-Blackguard 4:
15-Blackguard 5: Extra Turning
16-Blackguard 6: STR +1 (20)
17-Blackguard 7:
18-Blackguard 8: Divine Might
19-Blackguard 9:
20-Blackguard 10: STR +1 (21)
Fixed a few things, now it looks all good. Now as for Wisdom and BG's spells... ehh, i never liked them because of how easy they are to dispel, and when they get dispelled, and you relied on them for that +2 to stats or +4 natural, you're screwed because it's just 1/day. Technically you have the means to get all of those spells, but it may be better to drop 2 or 4 points of WIS, maybe even 2 DEX, put those points in CON and/or CHA. Meaning, 12 WIS is just really awkward and you want either 14 or none. Like this maybe: STR 16 (26 -38 in gear) Dex 08 Con 12 Wis 08 Int 14 Cha 16
_________________
Mark it zero!
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Mon, Sep 16 2013, 15:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Yeah, but for purposes of the character I really can't take the "more powerful" option since it deviates a bit far from what I'd be working toward/from. Granted, there's a ton of RP forthcoming for the amount of strength training needed to go from what he has now to that, but losing that might really burn me when a request comes. I have to admit that I like darkness and Corrupt weapon though. Darkness is good in a pinch and lasts a decent amount, and Corrupt weapon is a fun edge against goodies.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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