Few questions about Monkey Grip:

1. Does it cost 3 DC or 13 DC? What exactly is the reskin used for? The 1-h animation?

2. If I have a Scythe that is +5 AB, Keen, +4 enhanced, +2d4 elemental, +1d8 massive crit and it has Monkey Grip attribute, do I need to drop any of the other previous stats? Or just choose from one of the two drawbacks?

3. The STR halve from Monkey grip is applied to the weapon? Or the character?

4. If I wanted the weapon in question to be used for both 2H and 1H application, can it still be possible using the same weapon? Or once it gets Monkeygrip, it can only be used as a 1h? Reason is I would like to be able to use it 1h+shield for tough encounters, then 2h when I'm in a group and have more buffs.

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1. it's 13 DC

2. You just need to choose two of the drawbacks. one from each list.

3. Never had this myself but I think this actually doesn't apply hence why the drawbacks.

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3. It is applied to the weapon in the form of a negative damage penalty equal to half of your STR modifier.

4. You can use the weapon 2-handed as normal, but it will still retain all the penalties as if you were using it 1-handed with MG. The penalties are applied as properties to the weapon, so the weapon is permanantly penalized in that sense.

Moved to General Discussion.

Is there a viable way to get a reverse of the effect going? Say if I wanted to hold my one handed weapon two handed and there was a way to abuse the polymorphing scripts in reverse? Because it irks me to no end that I can't have 2-handed katanas.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

I'd love to see that too. Two handed bastard swords, two handed dwarven waraxes. I remember last time this was brought up it was a 'no' because of some hard coding reason or another. Unfortunately, I can't find the post again. But as Bob suggests couldn't a PC be skin changed instead of a giant into a halfling for the opposite effect?

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aaegus battlehammer™

cloak rockhewer

murtaugh gunn

It can't be changed on the weapon itself... but you might be on to something with the halfling skin change idea. Not sure how Monkey Grip works though exactly so probably Sune or maybe Terra would have a more definitive answer I'd think.

I think it'd be pretty easy for a DM to simulate the effect of MG in reverse for us to check. I'll try it out and see what happens.

Monkey Grip works like this: A Medium Sized character activates a skinchanger that makes them into a Large creature (like a dragon or giant). They remain Medium Sized at this point. Then, they polymorph and unpolymorph. This sets them to the size of the creature they're skinned as, so they are now Large. They equip a two handed weapon and shield. Then, the process happens in reverse, making them end up as a Medium sized creature still holding the two-hander and shield. They cannot unequip and re-equip these items at this point though without going through it all again.

I have now tested the reverse monkey-grip hypothesis, and it works.

Taking a Medium sized character with a longsword, I reskinned them to a halfling, polymorphed them and unpolymorphed them. This set their size to Small, meaning the longsword was two-handed. I skinned them back to Human and it remained two-handed as they couldn't equip a shield.

However, there is an issue in that the attack animation does not change. You still appear to use only one hand to attack, even though you cannot equip a shield. This makes it essentially useless, since you can just RP using it two-handed and not equip a shield. This is also different from Monkey Grip as the regular Monkey Grip only temporarily makes you Large 'sized', whereas this requires you to stay Small 'sized' for the effect to remain. That means all the benefits and penalties of being Small apply while this is in effect. So yeah, this works, but not in a way that is at all useful to anyone (except I guess in very specific circumstances)

That sucks. Thanks for trying, Mana. Maybe there's some fancy pants coding solution?

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aaegus battlehammer™

cloak rockhewer

murtaugh gunn

Wait a minute, the ACP might be of help here - I believe the Kensei ACP with a single melee weapon ends up placing both hands on the weapon, which ends up looking kinda wonky with a shield but might still achieve the desired effect. Other ACP options might work too.

Would it still increase str bonus to damage by 0.5 though, using the reverse-MG? Because that might be worthwhile.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

I was about to say the same thing. Kensei ACP is the perfect thing to make it look like youre using a weapon with two hands. You even block with the actual weapon in animations, instead of using the shield.

I remember doing the same experiment a long time back and got the same results as Mana. The issues are that you get +1 to AC, AB, +4 to a couple of skill buffs, and -4 to resisting KD.

We could solve this through having people bond with a particular weapon and take penalties to it, like for regular monkey grip. BUT, I think a better thing to do would be to make a custom widget that simply applies a -1 to AC, AB, etc, while you are in reverse monkey grip to cancel it out. It really shouldnt take a request and a special weapon to hold a longsword or a katana with both hands, like they were historically. And adding penalties to the actual weapons makes it suck if you choose to take out a shield later, which should remain an option. Any fighter who knows his way around his weapon would know how to use it in both modes, without any special penalties.

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The longswords in NWN and DnD are more akin to arming swords than actual longswords, which would be more like bastard swords.

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Even still, it shouldn't require a special feat/request/weapon to put two hands on it. It is just the natural instinct when you dot have something in the off-hand. I like how NWN2 automatically treats you as two-handing the 1-handed weapon you have, if it is big enough and you aren't holding something else. It would be nice to see some sort of script that automatically did that on Amia, but I don't imagine that is possible without some very serious tinkering, aka it'll never happen because the work would outweigh the niche interest.

Still, it would be nice if things 4 inventory squares or larger were treated that way. It could lead to some very interesting builds and characters.

I also dream of a mod that lets PCs wield a weapon in the right hand and a light crossbow in the off-hand, so I can go Commissar/Witch Hunter on you heretics. >_>

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