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I have a lot of one-off lore questions which do not always generate a healthy amount of discussion, and are solved quickly using keen insight and ingenuity found in our playerbase. For that reason, instead of making a new topic for every question I can't find a sourcebook for, I've created this topic. I hope it will function similar to the General Questions thread yet only pertaining to lore. That is, if people want that!

Let's get started. Here's a one-off:
- Players with the Shifter PrC actually become the creature they shift into, gaining all the benefits of a "true" shapechange unlike that of illusions or polymorph. It has been proven that the sky is the limit, lorewise, as to the number and variation of creatures a Shifter can become. That said: Can a Shifter gain a form of a SPECIFIC creature? If someone (lorewise here) wanted to imitate a specific person down to their scars and blemishes, could this happen if they had a situation in which to study them enough? Can you become a specific cat, instead of a generic cat of that variety?

Obviously not talking about mental properties, memories, etc. Physical stuff.

1000 faces, canon wise, can imitate specific people.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

1000 faces, canon wise, can imitate specific people.

I get ya, and because Shifters and Druids pretty much learn their forms in similar ways, a Shifter could do it outside the widget as well, since the widget is just representative of all the forums and not a special power in itself?

Its good to remember though that as a shifter you would turn into your best copy of that person, you're not just copypasting their genetic code onto yourself or anything, so you'd turn into something less akin to an identical twin of that person but more just another person who just happens to look almost exactly like them. A small but key difference.

Right, so shifting experience and ability is what separates poor imitations for convincing copies?

That as well as time put into observation, if you just want to be a human that looks to a casual observer like that other human than that basically takes just knowing sort of what they look like, but if you want to get the exact look or even specific scars of birthmarks, the hair and eyes and everything just right then that takes a fair bit more time and effort.

Basically normally if a shifter just becomes a human or a wolf (etc) they just become a rather plain generic one, sculpting and changing the form requires more thought and knowledge about the changes that they're making and in the case of changing to appear like a specific individual a good knowledge of that individual.

So with enough time a shifter can probably produce a perfect physical replica, it just usually isn't worth it since a generic appearance or an appearance that is fairly close are usually good enough.

Non-druid shifters don't have divine or arcane spellcasting. How do they gain access to samplings of those spells when taking other forms? Not a basilisks natural petrification, more like the Rakshasas ice storms.

Some creatures have innate arcane abilities that, while powerful, are extremely limited.

Or that's the best reasoning I can come up with at least.

Richard_Edmund wrote:

Some creatures have innate arcane abilities that, while powerful, are extremely limited.

That's true, but you think you'd either have to know how to do the spell yourself or take on their mind and memory as well. Lizardman Shaman, for instance, has Hammer of the Gods-- which is a Divine only spell. Is the god of Lizardman clerics just dumb and easily fooled?

Some things really are more mechanical than lore based although personally to bring it all into a more reasonable scope I always liked the idea of shifters when they shift maintaining a small "core" at the center of their being that is in essence "them" but then changing the rest of their mind and body to be that of what they are trying to become, not onlytrying to take on their form but their mindset and what it innately means to be one of whatever they become.

So when you might turn into a lizardman, you are still deep inside controlling things, but you also shape your thoughts to be like a lizardman, your beliefs to be like one, you try to change your entire being into one while still maintaining the core that is you at the center.

So to the deity that is granting the spell perhaps it is simply the fact that you really are now a being that worships them you might not always be but for the time that you are a lizardman you have become not only a lizardman in form but in thought and belief too.

Thanks for the interesting replies, by the way!

While shifting, does one take the entire form of another at once, or does it happen in a process such as:

1.) starting from a logical point to begin changes without interrupting your current life support systems, going out from there?
2.) shifting your entire body at the same time, but gradually?

Also, why can shifters not attempt shifting only parts of their bodies for a period of time? I don't imagine it would be overly difficult or do them a large amount of harm to change their hair or eye color, or grow scales like a lizardman on one arm if they understood what it was they were doing and the processes behind it.

You could say you're basically flubbing it so well that some divine entity believes you, but then that starts to smell like an Ur-priest. Probably something that we never thought about lore-wise when re-tooling Shifter, but it is a valid question.

A part of me really, really wants to say that there is no way a Deity can be tricked into granting spells to a creature he/she doesn't want to, or to do things he/she wouldn't want do. Divine casting is usually a two-way street, and isn't innate in most cases to a creature. I even recall reading something way back in PnP about how a cleric can't use say Flame Strike to attack his own temple or clergy, without there being good cause, or the spell just wouldn't work.

There is a manageable lore work-around though, that keeps us from going into those things. Simply say that the Lizardman that Shifters mimic is a Favored Soul. That is the only instance I can think of where Divine Magic is innate to a creature and doesn't require a prayer to have been made to cast it. Even then, that is sort of pushing it; as if a deity wouldn't realize this new creature drawing off their power isn't the original? Maybe if it was just one, but there are a dozens of shifters doing exactly that.

Mercedes wrote:

Thanks for the interesting replies, by the way!

While shifting, does one take the entire form of another at once, or does it happen in a process such as:

1.) starting from a logical point to begin changes without interrupting your current life support systems, going out from there?
2.) shifting your entire body at the same time, but gradually?

That is more flavor than anything else. Shifter is very loosely based off of a PnP class or two, and even there it makes no mention of these things. You simply take a shape of a creature. If you do it in a big poof of smoke and magic or some sort of weird werewolf-esque transformation, that is up to you. There are so many paths into Shifter(in PnP at least) that I would expect both to exist.

Quote:

Also, why can shifters not attempt shifting only parts of their bodies for a period of time? I don't imagine it would be overly difficult or do them a large amount of harm to change their hair or eye color, or grow scales like a lizardman on one arm if they understood what it was they were doing and the processes behind it.

In PnP, you can do certain partial polymorphs, and you don't even have to be a Shifter, just someone with access to Wild Shape. I.E. Elephant's Hide. Here is a whole list of such things.

Yeah partial shifting is actually one of the coolest shifter things in my opinion from both a mechanical and fluff side of things, it is a shame that it wasnt implemented at all in nwn (although it could be done possibly.)

As for the shifting process, it really does depend on the shifter and is pretty open to interpretation, I personally like the litteral shifting and changing of the body since it is cool and since even though mechanically it starts based on magical transforming the PNP class does make the shifting become a pseudo-supernatural effect at level 6 so it seems like a good choice to me, that said I cant see anything currently lore wise against the sudden magical type of shifting, just feels off to me personally.

The Great Equalizer wrote:

Yeah partial shifting is actually one of the coolest shifter things in my opinion from both a mechanical and fluff side of things, it is a shame that it wasnt implemented at all in nwn (although it could be done possibly.)

It is very possible to create a DC widget that takes a charge of Wildshape or a Shifter feat and gives some sort of stat bonus.

Who are the Roadwardens?

They are top agents of the Amian road and trail bureaucracy (The ARTB), you don't want to screw with them. *nodnod*

Kamina wrote:

Who are the Roadwardens?

That must be one of the most-asked questions

Ask IC.

...Maybe those guys should advertise or something.

I've actually answered that question somewhere on these forums.

How about them honorary road wardens?

There used to be a topic just like this one in the general questions thread, it evolved into this forum. The whole point being easy to search/get answers for lore instead of having to trawl through a massive topic of random questions.

Thanks, O. I was thinking the same thing. The reason for switching to a dedicated lore forum is that individual subjects are searchable by thread title.

Thanks for that tidbit. You may, then, disregard my suggestion.

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